support of israel

[synthesis]

ok...its really late...or early...yeah, you know what i mean

plus...you know...drugs...yeah

anyways, i had this thought.

anyone want to explain to me... this unconditional support for israel?

i mean what do we get out of it... whats our justification...we've given them like $80 billion dollars so far...

why????? israel sent spies to steal us military secrets...we didn't care... they sell our military secrets to china... we dont care...bin laden said that one of the main reasons for 9/11 was support for israel... i mean what the fuck is goin on here?

why??

[queen of diamonds]

Mainly 'cause there are many influential Zionists in America. The presidential administration can't afford to annoy them.

(Edited by queen of diamonds at 2:59 am on Mar. 29, 2003)

[Guardia Bolivariano]

Quote: from queen of diamonds on 10:57 am on Feb. 15, 2003
Mainly 'cause there are many influential Zionists in America. The presidential administration can't afford to annoy them.

(Edited by queen of diamonds at 2:59 am on Mar. 29, 2003)


This is so true.But we must not forget that Isreal is a regional power that suports the US.They are key to keep the arb nations at bay.

[deimos]

Thats not the reason. They can also make arab nations to policemen. Its even better because it divides the arabian wold.
Mainly its because of the zionists.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I would strongly support droping our constant military aid of Israel. It's pissing off the Arabs more than it would piss of the Zionists if we were to drop them. They are more threatening to the region than many groups considered evil by the US, and they break many more UN resolutions than Iraq.

[Tasha]

I agree currently israel bulldozes civilian homes. Also they kill children and commit barbaric acts of manslaughter.

[CheViveToday]

I also agree that the U.S. should drop the unconditional support of Israel. Our politicians probably just don't wanna piss them off, because Isreal has such a bad ass army, if we were to get in a war with them, it would be ugly. U.S. would win, however with countless losses. That war will luckily never happen, but sadly another thing that will never happen is the U.S. ending their controversial relations with Israel.

[synthesis]

The only reason Israel has such a strong army is because we funded the entire thing!

Take away financial support and Israel is nothing.

[OskarYeager]

You guys are all correct; Isreal is an American WELFARE COLONY... The only reason they are able to exist surrounded by Arabs is because of unconditional arms and "foreign aid" support from the U.S.... They've been known to steal American weapons technology, and then turn around and sell it to "Communist" governments such as China.

So what do we REALLY get from this alliance? That's really a good question... In my opinion, the main reason why the middle east is so volitile is BECAUSE of American support of Isreal, really... The United States gets nothing tangible from the American/Isreal "alliance"... It just dosen't seem to add up... America pays exorberant amounts of money to them, they steal technology, and they kill civilians and create resentment (towards America) in a strategically unimportant area that would otherwise be none of America's concern (Palestine)

And how about this quote?

"So we tell the Americans as people, and the mothers of American soldiers, that if they value their lives and the lives of their children, to find a nationalistic government that will look after their interests and not the interests of Jews" ~Osama Bin Ladin, in a 1998 interview with ABC reporter John Miller

[CheViveToday]

Yes. I think it's safe to say that none of us here are anti-semitic. It is terrible thing, all the hardships that the Jews have had to go through for thousands upon thousands of years. HOWEVER, they [the government of Israel] don't deserve the support of the U.S. or anyone for that matter, when they are oppressing other people due to their religious beliefs. Sure the palestinians have been doing the suicide bombings and such, but the Israelis have been treating them just as bad, if not worse. I think the creation of Isreal was a mistake in the first place. It was like throwing a shark into a tank full of pirahnas. One if two things could happen.

1. The pirhanas gang up on the shark and kill it, tearing it to pieces. OR
2. The shark eats each of the pirhanas one by one.

Either scenario is a BAD scenario. They all lead to death and destruction. I understand that the Jews wanted their homeland to be in the "holyland" but perhaps they should have just been give Texas or something. I know it sounds strange, but we'd all be a lot better off right now if that would have happened. Then again perhaps it wouldn't. Maybe now instead of a Palestinian/Israeli conflict, we would have had a Texan/Israeli conflict. I don't know. If only the world weren't full of uneducated close minded people. Then the Jews, Muslims, or whoever else could live wherever they choose, in peace.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

It's ironic and sad that the cruelty's that the nazi did to the Jews, are now done on Palestines by the Isreali army.

[apathy maybe]

Of course you must all remember that the US wasn't helping Israel in 1948 when the newly created state was invaded by most of it's neighbours. Israel kicked them out all by themselves.
And another thing. the people who die by blowing themselves up in public places aren't suicides but rather martyrs. They are dieing for their country and family.

[Reuben]

Interesting thread this. The current situation is completely terrible not least for the Palestinians. Throughout history, and with greater intensity today, the Palestinians have been collectively punished for excersizing what is unqeustionably their legitimate right to resist occupation and racial discrimination.

I think Israel i strategicall important to America but it does benefit from a level of European/Western guilt, and to be honest the west should feel guilt. Anti-semitism did not start Nazi Germany, not by a long stretch, and when Jews were fleeing Germany and territories occuppied by Germany, Britain and America took in a very limited number.

I am impressed with this thrad, that nobody has resorted to simply blaming 'The jewish lobbby' and instead has identified political zionism in america as the cause of US support. People often ignore the level of support Israel recieves frpm evangelical christians (who account for 70 million americans) and similarl ignore political diverity in the Jewish commnity in relation to Israel.

I dont know what the solution can be to he Crisis. Oslo was a hge mistake because it involved Arafat giving up the claim to 78 per cent of Historic Palestine with to equivalent compromise. As a result prime ministers such as Barak hav been able to say spuriously tha tey are offering Arafat '90% of what he wanted; without acknowledging that his is 90 per cent of the 22 per cent that hasnt been conceded.

To me, the territorial and other demands of the PLO seem very generous. They want a Palestinian state in just 22% of pre1948 palestine (IE one made out of the territories occupied in 67) and the right to return to Israel and palestine of all refugees who have been ethnically cleansed.

[Liberty Lover]

WOW!!! Something I agree with you guys on. At least partly anyway. Sharon has to get his act together, give the palastinians a state, and leave no excuse for terrorism. The U.S. should threatne to cut off aid if this doesn't happen.

"the people who die by blowing themselves up in public places aren't suicides but rather martyrs. They are dieing for their country and family."

People who intentionally masacre civilians are not martyrs

Hey deimos, Deus Ex rules.

[Blasphemy]

Quote: from apathy maybe on 12:06 am on Feb. 17, 2003
Of course you must all remember that the US wasn't helping Israel in 1948 when the newly created state was invaded by most of it's neighbours. Israel kicked them out all by themselves.
And another thing. the people who die by blowing themselves up in public places aren't suicides but rather martyrs. They are dieing for their country and family.



if your innocent mother would have been savagely butchered by a cursed suicide bomber you would be thinking differntly. but i guess that sitting infront of your computer, far away from jerusalem, not having to drive buses in jerusalem every single day, fearing that the bus you are on just might explode and you will never get back home, is very easy. i wanna see you dare drive a bus in jerusalem. i have to do it every day. riding to and from school is perilous to me. but what do you care. you don't have to fear it. fuck you.

[synthesis]

Deus Ex rules

That game is awesome. I've beaten it like four times.

I'm gonna splooge my pants when DX2 comes out. You know they're making a movie?

[Reuben]

Yes Deu Ex is amazing i have just been playing it for several hours.

i would love to add nano augmentations to Yassir Arafat.

Blasphemy i agree completely.

[deimos]

I have to agree with blasphemy.This suicide bombers aren't freedom fighters! But who creates this suicide bombers????This fuckin likuders with their imperealistic attitude. And these idiotic radical settlers. Why don't they understand???They have no right to live there, to steal the land of the arabs. I think freedom is possible, if they israelis behind the pre-67 borders.
Why didn't they found israel in australia?6,7 million sqare kilometres, barely populated(I doubt that australia had more than 10 million inhabitants in 1949).
Enough land for everyone.

Deus Ex is the best game all time!!!
I've beaten it over 10 times...3 times in realistic....
I hope that I will be able to play DX2 on my new amd athlon 2700+, geforce 4 4600 powered PC.

[Reuben]

Actually at one point the zionist movement wanted to form a state in south australia. Reliigious zionism, the belief in th holy land has never been the dominant strand, with secular ethnic nationalism being the dominant force. The point is however that ethnic states have an inevitable tendency towards oppression of minorities not least if they are formed collonially on land previously inhabited by another ethnic population

[Tasha]

Israelis have killed 10 times more civilians than palestinians. If they dont want to be killed they need to get off the palestine land. It has gotten to an extreme because of sharon. Suicide bombers are created by israel.

[apathy maybe]

"People who intentionally masacre civilians are not martyrs"
Don't tell that to me, they are the ones who think they are martyrs, and the term Suicide Bomber is wrong for the reason, they are not commiting suucide. That is illegal by Islamic Law.
And to you Blasphemy I sympathise, I live in a country where the last terrorist action was well before my birth (unless you consider deliberitly lit fires terrorism) and so I don't know what you are going through. But if the Israely Government gave the land back siezed in 1967 most of the bombings would stop.

[Liberty Lover]

"But if the Israely Government gave the land back siezed in 1967 most of the bombings would stop."

That's true, but it seems there will always be a lunatic minority who wan't all jews dead.

[deimos]

There wouldn't be any miority in australia. The difference between the average aussie and the average ashkenazim jew(they founded israel) is tiny. And the Aboriginess are a really TINY minority. They are to few to be oppressed...

[Reuben]

Diemos, u are a assuming that there is a correlation between racial differences and hostility. THis is not true. Prior to Isael being formed jews were treated much better in the Arab world than in Europe. In fact at tmes many fled from Europe to the arab world

[Reuben]

Diemos, u are a assuming that there is a correlation between racial differences and hostility. THis is not true. Prior to Isael being formed jews were treated much better in the Arab world than in Europe. In fact at tmes many fled from Europe to the arab world

[Reuben]

Furthermore they would still be an ethnic minority in Australia. OF course this is not synonymous with oppression but to say that they wouldnt be a minority is to take a very two dimentional look at the situation. Would yoou consider yourself a minortity in Turkey, of course you would.