Hi, I think I made a mistake [Archive]

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 08:35

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:37 AM
Hey, if you show people with respect... MOST people will return it. I've had a few people outright attack me on a view I've held that I don't wanna particularly bring up.

As for your question on "Socialist" Canada, that's... a misconception. Canada isn't really socialist in the Marxist sense (which would be a nation devoid of capitalism, but still have the government in tacked). However, Canada is 'left' to America, but only on terms of regulating or limiting capitalism... not replacing it all together (which is what most of the members of this message board want; to 'end' capitalism)

With this said, however, you should do fine in Canada. Like most countries that have embrassed varying levels of capitalism, you're bound to find a McD's, American fashion, American movies and shopping. The only difference is that your healthcare in Canada is paid by the state (which is actually more cost effective, go figure) and gay marrages is legal.
THANK-YOU!

I have been very confused about the term *socialist*. I have heard some people claim that Jesus was a socialist, does that term apply to Him that you would be aware of in any of it's definitions?

I may be breaking a rule here, I'm not wanting to discuss religion, just trying to figure out the term *socialism* in a way that I can relate to.

So if you want to end all capitalism you are a Marxist socialist? Is that a communist?

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 08:37

4th December 2005, 08:41

THANK-YOU!

I have been very confused about the term *socialist*. I have heard some people claim that Jesus was a socialist, does that term apply to Him that you would be aware of in any of it's definitions?

I may be breaking a rule here, I'm not wanting to discuss religion, just trying to figure out the term *socialism* in a way that I can relate to.

So if you want to end all capitalism you are a Marxist socialist? Is that a communist?

Society is divided into two major classes: the proletariat and the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie owns the means of production, while the proletariat does not and therefore works the means of production for the bourgeoisie.

Socialism is attained when the proletariat takes control of society. After this vague definition is where the different, more specific, definitions differ. The Marxist definition of socialism is basically "the dictatorship of the proletariat".

EDIT: Only social democrats believe in this major change in society through reform. The majority of people here advocate revolution to attain this liberation.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 08:47

So what happens to the bourgeosise? Do they become proletariat? I've seen Dr. Zhivago (love that movie) is that a good representation?

When the workers (so much easier for me I hope it is ok) are *dictators* would there still not be a head worker who would become bourgeosise? (is there an easier term?)

Are anarchism and socialism different? I understand you are saying there is still a type of government in socialism and I know that anarchists don't believe in government. Do both parties get along?

I appreciate you taking the time to educate me. :)

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 08:55

I'm tired and it's unbelievably late. I look forward to reading more here tomorrow.

Night everyone. :)

rioters bloc

4th December 2005, 08:58

hey annie angel, i was just reading your blog

some of it was a little disturbing

such as this:

I say we stop immigration. Period point blank. No excpetions. For a period of five years. And then look at the numbers again. If we have jobs that need filling, I think we should hire workers on visas who can come here under the following conditions.

They do not have children here. They will be sent home if a monthly pregnancy test comes up positive.

They carry all forms of insurance and pass a physical and mental examination.

They agree to be bar-coded.

They agree that they must leave the country by the date specified on their visas. Failure to do so would make them felons and upon capture the felon who is not a citizen and therefore has no rights would be put to death by firing squad.

They agree that breaking any law in this country shows a lack of respect for God and America and they will be sent home. Serious crimes will carry the execution penalty.

They must have a college education, no associates degrees accepted.

They must not take a job from an American, or a job that an American might be bothered seeing them perform.

They must live in designated areas and shop at designated stores. A strict no mingling rule would be in effect.

They are under no circumstances allowed to fly while in our country except to leave our country.
They may only come here once. If caught again the are to be considered hostile illegals and face the execution penalty.

As for illegals, well here is what I think we should do. When we catch them we tattoo them. Right on their faces. Maybe branding would be better. No paperwork required. Then we ship them home. If we catch them again, they are considered hostile illegals and face the execution penalty.

Good friends, while this may seem harsh, it is the only way to keep our wonderfully country wonderful. I also think that we should round up all illegals, their children even if born here and send them home with nice tattoos on their faces. I think we should round up all the legals who haven’t had a job within the last year and do the same with them and their families.

Think of the future and think of what America means to you. Because without zero immigration, the future of America is in the toilet.

i was wondering, is that how you really feel or were you perhaps exagerrating a tad?

edit: specifically, but not limited to, the remarks about executions.

4th December 2005, 08:59

So what happens to the bourgeosise? Do they become proletariat? I've seen Dr. Zhivago (love that movie) is that a good representation?

The revolution is against the bourgeoisie. The idea is that, since the majority of the population are proletarian, that the bourgeoisie will simply vanish. There might be people that try to fight against the proletariat, but these people will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis (i.e. depends on the severity of what they do).

When the workers (so much easier for me I hope it is ok) are *dictators* would there still not be a head worker who would become bourgeosise? (is there an easier term?)

I'd like to point you to this (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=43352) thread for more information on the subject. There are various threads on this forum that speak of this kind of thing also. If you are hungry for more, you are welcome to use the search function located at the top of the page (type in "dictatorship of the proletariat" or "socialism" or something like that). I think restricted members have access to these. At least I hope that they do as there would be no point in them not being able to. Let me know if it works.

I appreciate you taking the time to educate me.

It's my duty to my beliefs to spread the truths about my beliefs and to destroy the lies and accusations perpetuated by the less-knowledgeable/anti-communists. If you have any questions I or anyone else here would be more than glad to answer them.

Atlas Swallowed

4th December 2005, 10:53

Annie the problem is not immigrants coming into the country the problem is corporations sending jobs out of the country to exploit workers in poorer nations. American manufacturing has been destroyed by corporate greed not immigrants. Most immigrants are decent hard working people trying to make a better life for themselves and thier famillies. By reading this thread you seem like a decent person, sadly it seems you are very misinformed. Are you a listener of Rush Limbaugh or any other conservative talk show hosts? If you are, these guys are paid millions of dollars by corporations to lie and mislead people. They blame immigrants for alot of the problems that the corporations are the cause of. It is always so easy to attack those who are least able to defend themselves.

Atlas Swallowed

4th December 2005, 11:20

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:58 AM

Are anarchism and socialism different? I understand you are saying there is still a type of government in socialism and I know that anarchists don't believe in government. Do both parties get along?

As an anarchist I despise government, it has always been a tool to protect and benefit those that are at the top at the expense of everyone else. I also believe in socialism. Poverty and exploitation are evils that should not exist. I respect communists even if I disagree with them in some ways. We have a common cause we just don't agree on a common solution. I despise capitalism, a system that is solely based on aquiring wealth at any cost is wrong and dangerous to the survival of the human race.

RebelOutcast

4th December 2005, 13:01

AnnieAngel: I've just read your blog and I have to say that it's the funniest piece of racist bullshit I've ever read, it's not even well written.

For anyone who hasn't read her racist waste of webspace go to http://missannieangel.blogspot.com/ .

I say you ban her before she starts spouting that bullshit.

It's just so wrong to me! Here is a man who wrote such peaceful wonderful songs, and now he has joined such a hate-filled religion! I am just floored. He decided to turn his back on Jesus and embrace Muslimity. Muslimity doesn't allow him to sing any of his songs or play guitar or anything like that! He can only do the call to prayers and that song just gives me the creeps.

Firstly, It's Islam, not, "muslimity".
Secondly, What makes you think that your religion any better than Islam, Christianity has a violent history to rival that of Islam.
Hell, Dubya's still fighting wars claiming that "god" is on his side.

Your mistake wasn't in posting in the wrong section of the forum, it was coming to this forum in the first place, you'd be better off at www.*************** .

I think that you should leave this forum, you worthless, racist, intellectually derelict piece of shit.

Goatse

4th December 2005, 13:33

THIS IS DIRECTLY COPIED FROM MY POST IN HER OTHER THREAD

(Just wanted to make sure this racist piece of shit saw it.)

Our shores are threatened, people. Not by wind and water, no, but by a brown tide of immigration. There is an endless stream of legal and illegal immigrants washing up on our shores like detritus from some unholy hurricane of excrement. We are knee deep in sludge here, and the smell is getting overpowering.

This needs to STOP. We need zero immigration and we need it NOW.

I mean these illegals, they come here in droves with no education, little intelligence, no skills and without even a basic grasp of the English language. The legals are even worse, they form their own little racist communties and refuse to speak English period. I can’t even read half of the signs I see these days, they seem to all be in either Mexican or Cuban.

THE IRONY! IT BURNS US! ARGGGHHHHhhhh.....

This flood of the unwashed, willing to do any kind of job for hardly any money is harming us in so many ways.

Yes, it really hurts your economy! Immigrants willing to work hard for little money. Get a fucking grip.

They are taking jobs away from our own American lower class.

Yes, the evil sludge monsters hide behind walls and pounce on Americans and forcibly remove their jobs!

Look at Texas, it’s pretty much being over-run with these people. Our black folk who were willing to work at these jobs are being pushed out by these brown immigrants who are willing to work for almost no money.

Isn't working for "almost no money" beneficial to your borgousie class?

I mean they live like dogs and eat mostly rice, a few bucks a day for booze is more than enough.

Go and kill yourself you racist piece of shit.

So our poor but upwardly mobile blacks are out of jobs and into the unemployment line and then the welfare line. Is this fair? Remember the Alamo!

So unfair! People willing to work harder for less money getting the jobs is so sick, twisted, and evil! It must make baby Jesus cry!

So who shoulders the burden on our system? WE DO. Decent Americans with good jobs who pay taxes.

Good jobs, as in sitting behind a desk watching immigrants work for basically nothing, while you take the profit?

I mean, these illeglas drive around in their fancy cars like they own the place.

I thought you said they worked for "almost no money." How do they manage to afford fancy cars?

Do they pay for the roads they drive on? NO.

Probably because the roads were already there, perhaps even before you were born.

Do they have insuarance to pay for the damages they cause when they get into accidents with decent folk? NO

Shouldn't the "decent folk" have insuarance?

And health care……who keeps those emergency rooms filled??? Immigrants, legal and illegal who don’t know how to take care of themselves and be clean and so end up burdening our hospitals unnecessarily.

But if all the "decent folk" do "know how to take care of themselves and be clean" then it needn't bother you, since you won't end up in a hospital, right?

And they are mostly criminals, if they weren’t before they got here, they turn to crime once they are here. Look at Miami. Shudder. It is in their culture to be lazy, and why work for what you can steal from those who do?

Generalizations 4tw!

I mean I look around sometimes and wonder where I am? I feel like I am surrounded by people so unlike us, so different from us, and who are unwilling to adapt to our culture. It seems we should be forced to adapt to theirs in the name of "tolerance." What pinko PC nightmare Hell is this? When did I go to sleep and wake up in Canada?

I couldn't think of anything I could really say to this except for the "Fucking idiot" which escaped my mouth when I read it.

I say we stop immigration. Period point blank. No excpetions. For a period of five years. And then look at the numbers again. If we have jobs that need filling, I think we should hire workers on visas who can come here under the following conditions.

They do not have children here. They will be sent home if a monthly pregnancy test comes up positive

They carry all forms of insurance and pass a physical and mental examination.

These kind of rules should apply to racist fucks like you, not immigrants.

They agree that they must leave the country by the date specified on their visas. Failure to do so would make them felons and upon capture the felon who is not a citizen and therefore has no rights would be put to death by firing squad

See above.

They agree that breaking any law in this country shows a lack of respect for God and America and they will be sent home. Serious crimes will carry the execution penalty.

Theocratic *****.

They must have a college education, no associates degrees accepted.

Where do you propose they would get this education?

They must not take a job from an American, or a job that an American might be bothered seeing them perform.

Get it into your fucking skull, they're not stealing jobs.

They must live in designated areas and shop at designated stores. A strict no mingling rule would be in effect.

And we all know what happens to countries who racially herd people.

They are under no circumstances allowed to fly while in our country except to leave our country.

That's just fucking idiotic.

They may only come here once. If caught again the are to be considered hostile illegals and face the execution penalty.

I doubt they'd want to come back.

As for illegals, well here is what I think we should do. When we catch them we tattoo them. Right on their faces. Maybe branding would be better. No paperwork required. Then we ship them home. If we catch them again, they are considered hostile illegals and face the execution penalty.

I doubt they'd want to come at all.

Good friends, while this may seem harsh, it is the only way to keep our wonderfully country wonderful

No it isn't. If it wasn't for the amount of imigrants your "wonderfully country" wouldn't be "wonderfull" because you wouldn't have cheap labour.

I also think that we should round up all illegals, their children even if born here and send them home with nice tattoos on their faces. I think we should round up all the legals who haven’t had a job within the last year and do the same with them and their families.

But if they haven't got a job, then they're not harming the economy because they're not stealing jobs.

Think of the future and think of what America means to you. Because without zero immigration, the future of America is in the toilet.

No it fucking well isn't. Nazi pseudo-patriotic speeches have no affect on me.

On a side note, thanks for discrediting the Tory cause by managing to contradice yourself roughly every second sentence. Kudos.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 14:04

The election up here got me to wondering why people are calling the NDP communists and I wondered what socialism was and what communism was and anarchism and I don't know, I was just wondering all kinds of things.

Well, I'm not really sure where you heard that the NDP was a communist party. In fact, they are the new democratic party, insofar socialist democracy. Nevertheless, they like to claim they represent the workers, but in fact, they are a union party who cares nothing for the workers. As a result, hardly communist.

Where in Canada are you?

Atlas Swallowed

4th December 2005, 15:40

That blog is so idiotic, ignorant and hate filled. Your hatred is misguided. It is so much easier to blame immigrants for your misperceived problems. Most of these problems are caused by the rich and powerful, but why take them on when you can take on those of less power. Don't be a dupe and a sucker. Your views are not only idiotic they are cowardly.

LuÃs Henrique

4th December 2005, 15:47

I have heard some people claim that Jesus was a socialist, does that term apply to Him that you would be aware of in any of it's definitions?

No, he wasn't, and he wasn't pro-capitalist neither. Capitalism and socialism didn't exist at his time, he couldn't be socialist more than he could be a Manchester United fan.

But certainly he wouldn't agree with the views you seem to have expressed in your blog. Don't you think that those views are radically anti-Christian? Why?

Luís Henrique

which doctor

4th December 2005, 16:13

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 16:32

First: My blog is where I speak my mind. This is not my blog, I am here to LEARN and not to discuss MY beliefs.

I am trying to learn yours!

Thanks, Lazar, I'll read that thread, thanks Fist of Blood.

Bannockburn,

I am in Southern Ontario. This sysytem of government is confusing, but I like how they are able to call a vote.

Goatse

4th December 2005, 16:42

Your beliefs are still vile and racist, and you deserve to be banned.

How can we let someone who believes immigrants should be shot post here? It's foul.

RebelOutcast

4th December 2005, 16:43

"Known fascists are not allowed to post here, no matter what they post."

Taken straight from the board rules.

I've reported you foul creature, although I doubt I'm the first or that I'm the only one who has.
Perhaps you should go to stormfront (http://www.***************) and talk to other filth like you.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 17:27

I AM NOT A FASCIST!

I think YOU are! I am just a girl and I am not breaking any rules, have NO INTEREST in discussing my beliefs with you but wish to learn yours!

And you would ban me for that? That is FASCIST!

Fine, go on and ban me! You are very mean people, didn't anyone ever teach you manners? This is not to all of you, most of you are very nice.

I am not a foul creature! You are! I didn't say anything mean to you!

I am NOT a fascist! I am a Republican!

RebelOutcast

4th December 2005, 17:30

Republican, Fascist who cares? It's the same shit with a different label.
It's also typical of fascists to deny that they are fascist.

The fact that you told people to, " Burn Your Cat Stevens Records!" because you found out that he was a muslim shows that you're racist.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 17:31

I can't access your topic, Lazar. Can you advise me on any books or outside links as I feel for some reason that I am not welcome here and will be baned soon.

I am not bourgoiuse or whatever, my God, I am a 35 year old fitness professional, I deal with those people everday, spoiled rich drunk fake women who only care about themselves and their bank account!

I charge them WAY TOO MUCH!!

4th December 2005, 17:31

And you would ban me for that? That is FASCIST!

That's not fascist whatsoever. This is a privately owned website. If the owner doesn't like hearing something, he doesn't have to. Think of it as a house. If he doesn't like hearing someone's opinion he can kick them out of his house. That's not fascist at all.

Fine, go on and ban me! You are very mean people, didn't anyone ever teach you manners? This is not to all of you, most of you are very nice.

You haven't been banned. You've been restricted. You will be banned only if you violate forum guidelines.

I am NOT a fascist! I am a Republican!

Same thing! :P

I can't access your topic, Lazar. Can you advise me on any books or outside links as I feel for some reason that I am not welcome here and will be baned soon.

You won't be banned unless you break forum guidelines. However, some good websites would be Redstar2000's Papers (http://redstar2000papers.com), Marxists.org (http://www.marxists.org) and this one. Those are probably the best resources to use. And as long as you don't spout racist shit here that you've posted on your blog you won't be banned.

If you want to read a book I suggest The Communist Manifesto (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/) and The Principles of Communism. (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm) The Communist Manifesto is more of a formal view of the basic principles of communists. Principles of Communism, however, is easier to read as it is in question/answer form.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 17:34

I have no intentions of violating anything. I have made that crystal clear. So if I am banned it has nothing to do with anything I have done.

It is fascist though, think of America as Bush's house. He does. ;)

But I am joking, DUH.

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 17:35

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 05:38 PM
I AM NOT A FASCIST!

Don't you worship the unquestionable totalitarian rule of God?

I think YOU are! I am just a girl and I am not breaking any rules, have NO INTEREST in discussing my beliefs with you but wish to learn yours!

I would just love to hear where you got the idea that Outcast was a Fascist from, otherwise I suggest you grow up. What's more, please remember that your gender means absolutely nothing to me or anyone else on this forum, the only reason you would mention it in a debate as far as I can see is because you think it will improve your odds to some degree. Men and Women are equal, despite the sexist bullshit that the bible spurts, and we will treat you like we would treat anyone.

And you would ban me for that? That is FASCIST!

No, it's productive, we don't want or need racist crap on this forum.

Fine, go on and ban me! You are very mean people, didn't anyone ever teach you manners? This is not to all of you, most of you are very nice.

Manners?? I don't have to put up with you becasue it's 'good manners'

I am not a foul creature! You are! I didn't say anything mean to you!

I thought God made us all in his image? how can some of us be foul? :P

I am NOT a fascist! I am a Republican!

Better? or Worse?

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 17:36

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:58 AM
Do both parties get along?

Sometimes.

Ownthink

4th December 2005, 17:36

Ban this racist christo-fascist.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 17:41

What racist crap is on your forum because of me? Nothing I brought here!

This is not a debate, I wouldn't dream to debate here as I HAVE NO CLUE what your ideologies are.

I am just here to ask some questions and get some answers. I am in no way able to pollute this site from this one thread. I promise I will not leave this thread except to read. I promise not to mention God unless someone else brings it up and it is only for explanation purposes that they chose to use.

I don't know what else I can do!

I am going to get a tshirt with Theocratic ***** written on it, so thanks to whoever called me that. :(

Can the flames stop now please? You don't have to read this thread if you hate me so much. I bet you'd shoot me if you could.

Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

RebelOutcast

4th December 2005, 17:43

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 05:38 PM
I am not a foul creature! You are! I didn't say anything mean to you!
Anyone who considers someone to be inferior because of their race or beliefs is in my eyes intellectually derelict and a waste of carbon, unless of course they have beliefs like your racist ones, in which case they are inferior and a foul creature.
Spreading hate based on race or creed is intolerable.

**edit**
I bet you'd shoot me if you could. A bullet to the head is too good for anyone with fascist beliefs.

Intifada

4th December 2005, 17:51

How do you justify the ignorant and racist shit you have written in your blog?

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 17:51

I do not consider anyone inferior. No one. We are all equal. I am not going to debate my beliefs with you, it is not what this site is for. Well maybe this board, but it is not why I am here and this is the only board I can post on.

Any links that are good Lazar? I trust you know what you are talking about. Just looking for truth so I don't have to guess. Isn't that a GOOD thing?

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 17:53

You're seeing a BIT of my thoughts over there. I mean, if I had of known I would be received this way after my blog was read, I'd have gone off on Israel! Then you would like me!

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 17:54

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 05:52 PM
What racist crap is on your forum because of me? Nothing I brought here!

You advocate the 'turning back' of immigrants. Im presuming your actually a Euro-American, and not an American-Indian, meaning that by your own logic, your actually an immigrant.

This is not a debate, I wouldn't dream to debate here as I HAVE NO CLUE what your ideologies are.

But unfortunately for you, we do know yours.

Can the flames stop now please? You don't have to read this thread if you hate me so much. I bet you'd shoot me if you could.

I probably wouldn't shoot you if I had the chance.

Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

Your quite welcome to post here in OI, I like having people that disagree with us on the forum. It's good. of course naturally all that will happen is we'll try and change your views. Which of your ideas would you like us (to start with? Your religion or your Politics?

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 17:56

*edit*

Goatse

4th December 2005, 17:57

I AM NOT A FASCIST!

Yes, condoning execution of immigrants is really libertarian, don't you agree?

I think YOU are! I am just a girl and I am not breaking any rules, have NO INTEREST in discussing my beliefs with you but wish to learn yours!

You are demeaning to your gender. It's people like you who make the general opinion of eminists what it is. (As in, they're femme-supremist-nazis.)

And you would ban me for that? That is FASCIST!

No it isn't. Get over yourself, you foulmouthed racist piece of shit.

Fine, go on and ban me! You are very mean people, didn't anyone ever teach you manners? This is not to all of you, most of you are very nice.

IRONY ALERT! NEEEOW! NEEEOW! NEEEOW!

You refer to immigrants as brown sludge. We're the "not very nice" people?

I am not a foul creature!

Yes you are. See above.

You are!

No we're not. Get over yourself.

I didn't say anything mean to you!

I don't care, you've said "mean" things about enter races because of their skin colour. Revolutionary Left is not a place for nazi scum.

I am NOT a fascist! I am a Republican!

They aren't mutually exclusive.

I have no intentions of violating anything. I have made that crystal clear. So if I am banned it has nothing to do with anything I have done.

By posting here you are violating my human rights. (If not being subject to steaming bullshit in the form of text isn't against an existing human right, it should.)

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 17:58

Originally posted by Additives [email protected] 4 2005, 06:05 PM
Your quite welcome to post here in OI, I like having people that disagree with us on the forum. It's good. of course naturally all that will happen is we'll try and change your views. Which of your ideas would you like us (to start with? Your religion or your Politics?
Well, how about we start by you letting me know what your views and ideas are? That's why I'm here.

:)

RebelOutcast

4th December 2005, 18:01

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 06:04 PM
If I had of known I would be received this way after my blog was read, I'd have gone off on Israel! Then you would like me!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, No you'd have been taken the same way, many people here are anti-zionist, NOT anti-semitic, anti-semitism is racism plain and simple.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:03

Ah, so not liking Israel is anti-semetic? I see. :rolleyes:

Goatse

4th December 2005, 18:05

Many posters have made valid points and you choose to ignore them. You're not even capable of a real debate, you have no place in OI.

Intifada

4th December 2005, 18:06

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 06:04 PM
You're seeing a BIT of my thoughts over there.
Enough for me to come to the conclusion that you deserve a bullet in the head.

I mean, if I had of known I would be received this way after my blog was read, I'd have gone off on Israel! Then you would like me!

If you are anti-Zionist, and not anti-Semitic, then I would like you.

But, of course, you probably aren't anti-Zionist.

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 18:09

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 06:09 PM

Well, how about we start by you letting me know what your views and ideas are? That's why I'm here.

:)
My views? complicated and I can't be bothered to go into detail, this is a rough idea:

I think that Working people (and anyone else who agrees) should engage in Class War and overthrow the Bosses and Government to create a free an equal society without borders, and any arbitrary divides such as Race, Class, Gender, Sexuality etc. Money means power means inequality, and as such should be abolished as well, along with the notion that objects have a monetary value.

Religion should not exist in an organised fashion. It's largely irrational and based on antiscientific suppressions. Individuals can be religious, but I consider it a form of abuse to try and convert people, especially children.

violencia.Proletariat

4th December 2005, 18:13

I do not consider anyone inferior

except for those scum immigrants right :angry:

I am not going to debate my beliefs with you, it is not what this site is for.

thats exactly what this site is for

but its ok, we like to debate godsuckers. have fun.

LuÃs Henrique

4th December 2005, 18:18

Listen, her tactics is very clear.

She comes here, abides to the rules, but links to her blog, where she writes down racist ideology.

If we ban her, she is justified to claim she was banned without breaking the rules. If we don't, we suffer the presence of a person who believes half of us are "brown shit".

Very fine troll, miss. :lol:

Let me propose something... allow her to remain here, restricted, but demand the removal of her link.

And let's make the rules clearer about racist propaganda not being allowed, neither in the forum, nor in links in the profile...

So, my dear, do you agree with me that your ideas are exactly the opposite of those of Jesus of Nazareth? If not, why not?

Luís Henrique

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:18

Originally posted by Additives [email protected] 4 2005, 06:20 PM

My views? complicated and I can't be bothered to go into detail, this is a rough idea:

I think that Working people (and anyone else who agrees) should engage in Class War and overthrow the Bosses and Government to create a free an equal society without borders, and any arbitrary divides such as Race, Class, Gender, Sexuality etc. Money means power means inequality, and as such should be abolished as well, along with the notion that objects have a monetary value.

Religion should not exist in an organised fashion. It's largely irrational and based on antiscientific suppressions. Individuals can be religious, but I consider it a form of abuse to try and convert people, especially children.
Thanks. :)

I agree with you on organized religion. I wish it could be just me and Jesus. But I do think that people should be allowed to choose if they wish to be religious, is that what you are saying too? As long as it is not institutionalized?

I have a question about a free and equal society, how do you now everyone wants to see the same type of society emerge, how do you ensure equality? Do you envision some form of government?

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:19

From now on I will not reply to flames.

Goatse

4th December 2005, 18:21

May I ask what your beliefs are?

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:22

By the way I am anti-Zionist, not anti-Semetic. Maybe we have something in common!

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 18:29

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 06:29 PM
I agree with you on organized religion. I wish it could be just me and Jesus. But I do think that people should be allowed to choose if they wish to be religious, is that what you are saying too? As long as it is not institutionalized?

I have a question about a free and equal society, how do you now everyone wants to see the same type of society emerge, how do you ensure equality? Do you envision some form of government?
Yes, but our hope is that in a free an equal society, people wont want to be religious.

I have a question about a free and equal society, how do you now everyone wants to see the same type of society emerge, how do you ensure equality? Do you envision some form of government?

No, the free an equal society will be ultra-democratic, everyone's opinions will help shape how things work. And if don't like is, you can opt out of society. But you will not receive societies fruits. if there's a ruling government, there cannot be equality.

Ownthink

4th December 2005, 18:29

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 01:33 PM
By the way I am anti-Zionist, not anti-Semetic. Maybe we have something in common!
Maybe you should go fucking kill yourself and save someone else the trouble of having to waste their bullets.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:32

Originally posted by Additives [email protected] 4 2005, 06:40 PM

No, the free an equal society will be ultra-democratic, everyone's opinions will help shape how things work. And if don't like is, you can opt out of society. But you will not receive societies fruits. if there's a ruling government, there cannot be equality.
So like a town hall? I like that idea, but wonder how well it would work in large groups. I like the idea of opting out. I'd probably be an opter. :)

4th December 2005, 18:35

Ban this racist christo-fascist.

Ownthink. Go somewhere and jerk off to soldiers getting killed or something. Shut up.

Any links that are good Lazar? I trust you know what you are talking about. Just looking for truth so I don't have to guess. Isn't that a GOOD thing?

I posted numerous links in
this post (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=43583&view=findpost&p=1291983413), which I'm guessing you missed because of all the flaming going on in this thread.

No it isn't. Get over yourself, you foulmouthed racist piece of shit.

Could this get a warning point please? This is just flaming plain and simple.

Many posters have made valid points and you choose to ignore them. You're not even capable of a real debate, you have no place in OI.

Did you read what she's been posting? She's not here for debate. She's here to learn.

Let me propose something... allow her to remain here, restricted, but demand the removal of her link.

I second this.

I have a question about a free and equal society, how do you now everyone wants to see the same type of society emerge, how do you ensure equality? Do you envision some form of government?

Since additives will respond with the anarchist viewpoint, I might as well throw out the communist one.

A communist society will be moneyless. This does away with most inequality. All products and services will be free. People have many more options about their careers as schooling is free. Everybody is given an equally-sized living space, depending on the number of people living together. "Government" in the bourgeois sense of the word will cease to exist. The administrative bodies will be workers' councils. Workers' councils preside over an area (basically a community), are elected through direct democracy and can be recalled whenever someone requests a recall vote and it is voted to recall that particular worker. These workers in the councils will not be just administrators. They will also hold jobs much like a normal citizen. Therefore, any political work done by someone is actually extra work which offers nothing to the citizen but respect from the community.

Workers' councils preside over a community. Larger regions would be presided over by workers' congresses, which consists of representatives sent by those workers' councils.

So like a town hall? I like that idea, but wonder how well it would work in large groups. I like the idea of opting out. I'd probably be an opter. smile.gif

Why would you opt out of participating in a society where everybody is equal, there is no oppression and everything is provided for you by the community?

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 18:36

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 06:43 PM
So like a town hall?
I guess there would be large forums in each community where people can get together and debate...

I like that idea, but wonder how well it would work in large groups. I like the idea of opting out. I'd probably be an opter. :)

Read this: http://www.raisethefist.com/news.cgi?artical=anarchy

Free Palestine

4th December 2005, 18:38

Just to spite you, I have adopted a Chicken Teriyaki sub from Subway as my new God. The great part is, your "God" if such an unrealistic and unfounded a belief that my God is more tangible than your deity - not to mention delicious!

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 18:39

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 4 2005, 06:49 PM
Just to spite you, I have adopted a Chicken Teriyaki sub from Subway as my new God. The great part is, your "God" if such an unrealistic and unfounded a belief that my God is more tangible than your deity - not to mention delicious!
You may have the same God as me, but you worship a false messiah!

The Mayo is not the messiah! but a prophet!

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 18:41

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 06:46 PM
Since additives will respond with the anarchist viewpoint, I might as well throw out the communist one.
No way! Im giving an Anarcho-Communist viewpoint

poetofrageX

4th December 2005, 18:44

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, so i'll go ahead, since it seemed so obvious to me.

AnnieAngel, dont you realise that Jesus, and most of the the Biblical prophets came from the Middle East or Africa? i.e. Moses being born in Egypt, etc.

Do u consider them "brown sludge"?

(and BTW, i'm not flaming, but asking you a sincere question about your beliefs, which is what OI is for, an exchange and debate of beliefs)

LuÃs Henrique

4th December 2005, 18:46

Capitalism and socialism have always existed. They just didn't have the names they do today. And there was no Adam Smith linked to the word capitalism and no Karl Marx linked to socialism. There have always been rich people who exploit poor people and there has always been collectivism. We must not get hooked on names, but we must think of them more as ideologies.

Where do you get such ideas?

Both capitalism and socialism are historical constructions, not natural or metaphysical principles. Capitalism only started once capital took hold of production (somewhen about the XVIII century); socialism only began as a reaction against capitalism.

More ancient forms of exploitation (feudalism, slavery, etc) were not capitalist. Popular reaction against them was not socialist in any way. "Collectivism" is not socialism.

Jesus of Nazareth - if he ever existed, which is dubious - never witnessed capitalist exploitation; he could not be against it.

Luís Henrique

Goatse

4th December 2005, 18:47

Could this get a warning point please? This is just flaming plain and simple.

True it was flaming, but in response to her nazi crap.

Apologies if I offended you, Annie, but I assumed you were immune to foulmouthed comments, seeing as you dish it out to immigrants so much.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:48

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 06:46 PM

A communist society will be moneyless. This does away with most inequality. All products and services will be free. People have many more options about their careers as schooling is free. Everybody is given an equally-sized living space, depending on the number of people living together. "Government" in the bourgeois sense of the word will cease to exist. The administrative bodies will be workers' councils. Workers' councils preside over an area (basically a community), are elected through direct democracy and can be recalled whenever someone requests a recall vote and it is voted to recall that particular worker. These workers in the councils will not be just administrators. They will also hold jobs much like a normal citizen. Therefore, any political work done by someone is actually extra work which offers nothing to the citizen but respect from the community.

Workers' councils preside over a community. Larger regions would be presided over by workers' congresses, which consists of representatives sent by those workers' councils.

That doesn't sound bad to me. It actually makes sense. I totally like the idea of free education. I think it is evil to charge for University, as only the rich and very smart will get to go.

Thanks for the links, I did miss them but have them copied now. I have heard of the Communist Manifesto, I will try to find a copy at a second hand bookstore, hopefully it might have notes in the margins. :)

I would like to opt out because....I dunno. I just like the idea of living on my own, with my own rules and my own ways of doing things. I'd most likely wear a Princess dress all the time and only speak in Shakespearen English. :) And have a huge garden full of flowers and lots of cats, and I mean LOTS of cats. :) I'd be known as the crazy Christian cat lady who makes really good cookies and who shoots at people she doesn't know. ;)

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:50

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 06:58 PM

Apologies if I offended you, Annie, but I assumed you were immune to foulmouthed comments, seeing as you dish it out to immigrants so much.
No worries you didn't offend me but in truth you did hurt me. I don't ever talk to immigrants in a bad way, I am very nice to everyone I meet.

Can we start over?

Goatse

4th December 2005, 18:50

Thou shalt not kill? EDIT: To your first post.

To your second:

That's almost as bad actually, talking about them behind their back but you're scared to do it to your face?

And sure we can. So what are your beliefs?

poetofrageX

4th December 2005, 18:50

well, she's clearly not going to reply to my post, oh well, it just proves she has no answer to a sincere question.

4th December 2005, 18:53

No way! Im giving an Anarcho-Communist viewpoint

Yes, I guess we are thinking relatively the same thing. I don't know why I said that; I think I still had the "Socialism" issue in my head when I wrote that.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:53

Originally posted by Additives Free+Dec 4 2005, 06:47 PM--> (Additives Free @ Dec 4 2005, 06:47 PM)
[email protected] 4 2005, 06:43 PM
So like a town hall?
I guess there would be large forums in each community where people can get together and debate...

I like that idea, but wonder how well it would work in large groups. I like the idea of opting out. I'd probably be an opter. :)

Read this: http://www.raisethefist.com/news.cgi?artical=anarchy [/b]
From the site:

"four principles; individual freedom, social and economic equality, free association, and mutual aid (i.e. cooperation and solidarity). "

I like it. The message is good once you don't just see black clothes and face bandanas. You guys need better PR!

RebelOutcast

4th December 2005, 18:54

I don't ever talk to immigrants in a bad way
Somehow I doubt you've ever talked to an immigrant at all, either way you have absolutely no right to slander them or make generalisations about them.
Believe it or not they're humans too, and most of them probably work a hell of a lot harder than you.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 18:56

First: My blog is where I speak my mind. This is not my blog, I am here to LEARN and not to discuss MY beliefs.

Yeah, but your beliefs come from what you have learned. Really, as a result then your statements in your blog reflects what you have previously learned, where your beliefs lay, how you will portray those belief, your preconceived prejudices, etc. Therefore, if this is a place to learn implicitly, your beliefs are very much apart of this.

Southern Ontario eh? Well, its a small world after all. I am in Southern Ontario as well. Hamilton Ontario actually. Perhaps if we are in general proximity to one another we should meet, and I can straighten you out concerning your immigration “beliefs” I find it paradoxical that you critique immigration with a heavy emphasizes on race, and class, but at the same time you immigrated to Canada, and your forefather's immigrated to the United States.

What is confusing about Canada's form of government? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_government

No worries you didn't offend me but in truth you did hurt me. I don't ever talk to immigrants in a bad way, I am very nice to everyone I meet.

So you're a racist who binds to politically correct behavior in society? Ahh, just what this capitalist society wants. A social community where everyone gets along, but bellow the surface, hatred and resentment is boiling. Your like a prozacaddict. prozacis used to mask the symptoms of a much deeper proplem, but instead of finding to root, we only care whats on top

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:56

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 06:55 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, so i'll go ahead, since it seemed so obvious to me.

AnnieAngel, dont you realise that Jesus, and most of the the Biblical prophets came from the Middle East or Africa? i.e. Moses being born in Egypt, etc.

Do u consider them "brown sludge"?

(and BTW, i'm not flaming, but asking you a sincere question about your beliefs, which is what OI is for, an exchange and debate of beliefs)
Our society began in the Middle East. The land is Holy. I do not consider Jesus however to be of any race, He is all and none as He is God. I won't debate that on this board, maybe once everyone calms down we can discuss it on the religion board.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 18:59

Originally posted by Luís [email protected] 4 2005, 06:57 PM
Jesus of Nazareth - if he ever existed, which is dubious - never witnessed capitalist exploitation; he could not be against it.

Luís Henrique
He most certainly did! He threw the money changes from the temple! They were making you pay real money for temple money to buy sacrifices! And they charged a fee!

Jesus was pissed! And Christians are not allowed to this day to charge interest or even expect re-payment, whether or this teaching is practiced as I believe it should be.

4th December 2005, 19:05

He most certainly did! He threw the money changes from the temple! They were making you pay real money for temple money to buy sacrifices! And they charged a fee!

Jesus was pissed! And Christians are not allowed to this day to charge interest or even expect re-payment, whether or this teaching is practiced as I believe it should be.

Jesus didn't experience capitalism because in his time capitalism didn't exist. Capitalism is basically a socio-economic system where social relations are based on commodities for exchange, in particular private ownership of the means of production and on the exploitation of wage labour.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:05

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 07:07 PM

First: My blog is where I speak my mind. This is not my blog, I am here to LEARN and not to discuss MY beliefs.

Yeah, but your beliefs come from what you have learned. Really, as a result then your statements in your blog reflects what you have previously learned, where your beliefs lay, how you will portray those belief, your preconceived prejudices, etc. Therefore, if this is a place to learn implicitly, your beliefs are very much apart of this.

Southern Ontario eh? Well, its a small world after all. I am in Southern Ontario as well. Hamilton Ontario actually. Perhaps if we are in general proximity to one another we should meet, and I can straighten you out concerning your immigration “beliefs” I find it paradoxical that you critique immigration with a heavy emphasizes on race, and class, but at the same time you immigrated to Canada, and your forefather's immigrated to the United States.

What is confusing about Canada's form of government? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_government

No worries you didn't offend me but in truth you did hurt me. I don't ever talk to immigrants in a bad way, I am very nice to everyone I meet.

So you're a racist who binds to politically correct behavior in society? Ahh, just what this capitalist society wants. A social community where everyone gets along, but bellow the surface, hatred and resentment is boiling. Your like a prozacaddict. prozacis used to mask the symptoms of a much deeper proplem, but instead of finding to root, we only care whats on top
I'm not a racist or an immigrant. I am a visitor to Canada. I'm quite close to Hamilton actually. I've heard it is proper to refer to it as *steeltown* or *stinktown*. I don't meet with people who call me racist though, as I am not one. I didn't have a clue I would get flamed for my personal thoughs, and it saddens me. We all have the rights to our opinions, and I am not forcing anyone to believe in what I do.

In fact, I am open to those who are more knowledgeable than me to educate me. However I will not listen if I am being trahsed, as I hope you wouldn't listen to those who would trash you. Communication is a two way street, and I'm always open to learn more.

I am not an addict, but appreciate you going out of your way to be mean. I will continue to speak with you but please let's be civil?

Flies, honey all that.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:07

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 07:16 PM

Jesus didn't experience capitalism because in his time capitalism didn't exist. Capitalism is basically a socio-economic system where social relations are based on commodities for exchange, in particular private ownership of the means of production and on the exploitation of wage labour.
So what would you call what the money changers were doing?

When did capitalism start and where, do you know? I'd guess England during the industrial revolution?

Free Palestine

4th December 2005, 19:10

Jesus doesn't love you. In fact, I'm pretty sure Big Poppa J.C. can't wait to pop the proverbial cap in you and your kind's collective asses once you kick the bucket.

Well, that was fun. Love to stay but I have to stop by the Pornography store on my way to the bible bonfire. :lol:

Samuel

4th December 2005, 19:10

Annie, I don't hate you. In fact, I hate no person on the earth at the moment. However, the posts on your blog show that you are:

-Isolationist ("We need zero immigration and we need it NOW.")
-Classist ("I mean I look around sometimes and wonder where I am? I feel like I am surrounded by people so unlike us, so different from us, and who are unwilling to adapt to our culture. It seems we should be forced to adapt to theirs in the name of 'tolerance.'")
-Racist ("They must live in designated areas and shop at designated stores. A strict no mingling rule would be in effect." [that reminds me of something that happened from the end of slavery in America and lasted until about the time of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr, humm, it was called SEGREGATION)

Annie, these are HUMAN beings. Please explain how you could consider any human above another. How do you think that the "brown people" who would be forced to be "bar-coded," "tattooed...Right on their faces," and punished by "execution penalty" upon a slight legal infraction feel when their American dream is squandered? Remember your inalienable rights: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

I have "brown" friends (by "brown", do you mean of Indian or Mestizo decent?). One of them drives a Mercedes. Now, I don't drive a car mostly because I am against oil consumption, but all the same he works hard. He owns a clothing company called Brooklyn Express. He goes to department stores in Manhattan and sells his goods and makes a profit. He works for his money. I think that Americans who feel threatened by competition are the lazy ones, not my good friend Ravjot.

What do you mean by "They are under no circumstances allowed to fly while in our country except to leave our country."? If they ARE allowed to fly, then wouldn't they be contributing to the American economy? If it is because of a supposed "Terrorist" threat, well, do you remember the "Skyjacker?" He was a white-bread all-American Vietnam veteran who hijacked commercial airliners, landed them, demanded ransom money, took off after receiving that money, and parachuted out of that airliner while people were on board.

What about that guy who bombed that building in Oklahoma city... McVeigh, that was his name. He was a white all American, and look what he did. Maybe we should bar-code all the whites too, in case they try and do something.

I have no problem with your belief in God. I am still a Jew, even though I have accepted a socialist view on politics. I go to synagogue about once a month, because I believe that there must be a Being somewhere that toppled the first domino (the Big Bang). No, I am not an intelligent-design supporter. If you paid attention, you would know that The Vatican has itself denounced Intelligent Design as "not being science" at all.

Annie, I don't have a problem with you wanting to believe what you want to believe. Its OK that you are passionate about your beliefs. However, when you take those beliefs, put them on a blog, and wrongly persuade the general public into believing that non-Americans are "sludge," I have a problem.

Please continue to peruse this site, you will find it is quite informative, and I hope it will expand your view of the world so that your newly attained broad understanding will help you see things in a different light any maybe not be so hateful.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 19:13

Our society began in the Middle East.

No. That is false. If anything human migration started and develop to the middle east, from their origins most likely in Africa. Evidence tells us so. It is also hard to say if any of these were “societal”, insofar a society would have a set form of beliefs, cultures, language, and customs, not to mention a general area of location. More like we were nomadic people's moving with the seasons.

The land is Holy

There is no evidence physical or otherwise to suggest such a thing

I do not consider Jesus however to be of any race, He is all and none as He is God

No, you are right, certainly Jesus did not have a race, insofar there is no biological determination of what consist of race. However, he was of middle east origins, and a Jew. He never claimed to be God. That is Christian propaganda.

4th December 2005, 19:14

When did capitalism start and where, do you know? I'd guess England during the industrial revolution?

Most people consider capitalism as starting around the time of the French Revolution.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:16

Sigh.

Samuel, I was speaking mostly about illegal immigrants. I really don't care WHAT color they are. You must admit that things are going nuts, and maybe I was over the top, I've admitted that. But I am not any worse than the Minute Men and I would never in real life support the Minute Men.

I was just typing on my blog. You must admit many Americans would LOVE to see what I wrote in practice. I am not one of them but that doesn't mean I don't think things sometimes and write it down. That is what my journal is for. I don't enforce world policy and if I did, I would be more into forcing Fox to take care of his people and ending free trade!

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:18

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 07:24 PM

Our society began in the Middle East.

It is also hard to say if any of these were “societal”, insofar a society would have a set form of beliefs, cultures, language, and customs, not to mention a general area of location. More like we were nomadic people's moving with the seasons.

As I said, our society began in the middle east.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:21

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 07:25 PM

When did capitalism start and where, do you know? I'd guess England during the industrial revolution?

Most people consider capitalism as starting around the time of the French Revolution.
And those who revolted became the capitalists?

I did hear an interesting story once, that what we today consider restaurants (with fancy table service) started after the French Revolution because of all the servants and cooks who wanted to start businesses. Service for a King started then.

Samuel

4th December 2005, 19:24

That is all well and good, Annie, but you did not respond to any of my questions or points. I had hoped for a good debate, alas, but my hopes and dreams have been squandered (sounds familiar...)

As to it being out of hand, I agree. It IS out of hand what some people believe these days... Maybe that whole "freedom" thing is out of date. Perhaps Love and Human Kindness are over-rated. Perhaps everyone else in this community that you decided to join feel the same way I am, revolted. Revolted that a person could with anything but the best upon another. Revolted that someone would put down others for personal gain. Revolted that someone would try to convince others to do the same, all in the name of God.

4th December 2005, 19:27

Samuel, I was speaking mostly about illegal immigrants. I really don't care WHAT color they are. You must admit that things are going nuts, and maybe I was over the top, I've admitted that. But I am not any worse than the Minute Men and I would never in real life support the Minute Men.

Yes, but you are just taking the problem at face value and not really looking into it that much. The problem you claim is the illegal immigrants themselves. But what you must look at is WHY they immigrate. The problem is that capitalism needs poor people to survive. Capitalism has shown that these more developed nations preys on the less developed nations. This can easily be shown by globalization. This is where companies export their factories to third world countries in order to get cheaper labour. These people immigrate out of necessity. They immigrate because more developed countries take advantage of their country in the way mentioned above. This means that they either can't get a job (which I haven't discussed but which can be a big problem in countries like these) or they can't earn a living wage in their country because of how poorly Nike, Wal-Mart, etc... pay. They come to your country and work so hard because, compared to where they come from, they are getting paid like kings. Therefore they are more than willing to work for what your country considers minimum wage.

Never take a problem at face value. Question everything presented to you. You should be critical of everything, including your own beliefs. The only way to be sure of your beliefs is to constantly bring them into question.

And those who revolted became the capitalists?

The French Revolution is the bourgeoisie revolting against the aristocracy.

Samuel

4th December 2005, 19:27

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 19:27

As I said, our society began in the middle east.

No. Sorry. Again. Its not like it was one it was multitudes of different tribes. The middle east, if any, it was migrated to. So, it did not begin anywhere closely to the middle east.

Samuel, I was speaking mostly about illegal immigrants.

how can a human being be illegal?

You must admit many Americans would LOVE to see what I wrote in practice.

No. I doubt that. In fact, I am an American, and I loath to see you spewing Lou Dobbs crap. Where in the US are you from?

I don't enforce world policy

Actually you do from the action you do, and not do.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 19:28

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:29

Sumeria is where our civilization began. Better?

Samuel

4th December 2005, 19:31

Actualy, its called Sumer.

EDIT: This bored is quite laggy. That is the second time in a page there has been a 2x post.

Maybe you would join the Live Chat (see link above) and talk to Lazar and me in real time. It is there to discuss what happens on this board...

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 19:33

No, obviously not simply because you have this complex that man was dropped in a singular location. There is history far beyond of mankind before 35000 BC. Before actually mankind was considered to be man.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:37

Lazar,

I am trying! I am open. What else can I do? Bleed?

I know why Mexicans immigrate. I spend quite a bit of time with friends in Cancun. I know about Marcos. I know people who know Marcos. Free trade is killing the farmers. American policy abroad is driving Mexicans here in droves. Cubans want to escape the system you like! America is at fault! But unless Mexico grows some balls or America grows a heart, the problems that come with illegal immigration will not stop and will only get worse.

What's your solution? I would really like to hear it.

So in the French Revolution the bourgoius got rid of the nobles and then they took over? Was the worker involved? Or would there have been workers in those days? I'm not good with history....would it have been farmers?

Elect Marx

4th December 2005, 19:39

IMPORTANT NOTICE

RebelOutcast and ScottishPinko, please stop flaming. This is a discussion board, not a place to launch insults. Your criticism and condemnation are appropriate enough but just attacking people will not help. If you disagree with a poster, just discredit their statements. This is a discussion board and weather I agree with you or not is a different point entirely. So don't think I cannot empathize with your anger, it is simply misplaced. The flaming has generally stopped, so I don't think warning points are required now but everyone has been warned, post content now, not insults.

Ownthink, additionally: We're going to ban you, is not valid sentiment for a thread like this. If you have concerns, please address them to the CC and they will be dealt with. People that clearly violate the guidelines will know soon enough that they have done so and we need to save space for discussion of issues if we ever intent to reach the working class.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:40

I'm sorry Lazar, I'm letting this get to me and I was rude to you. :(

Ownthink

4th December 2005, 19:41

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 01:46 PM

Ban this racist christo-fascist.

Ownthink. Go somewhere and jerk off to soldiers getting killed or something. Shut up.

Any links that are good Lazar? I trust you know what you are talking about. Just looking for truth so I don't have to guess. Isn't that a GOOD thing?

I posted numerous links in
this post (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=43583&view=findpost&p=1291983413), which I'm guessing you missed because of all the flaming going on in this thread.

No it isn't. Get over yourself, you foulmouthed racist piece of shit.

Could this get a warning point please? This is just flaming plain and simple.

Many posters have made valid points and you choose to ignore them. You're not even capable of a real debate, you have no place in OI.

Did you read what she's been posting? She's not here for debate. She's here to learn.

Let me propose something... allow her to remain here, restricted, but demand the removal of her link.

I second this.

I have a question about a free and equal society, how do you now everyone wants to see the same type of society emerge, how do you ensure equality? Do you envision some form of government?

Since additives will respond with the anarchist viewpoint, I might as well throw out the communist one.

A communist society will be moneyless. This does away with most inequality. All products and services will be free. People have many more options about their careers as schooling is free. Everybody is given an equally-sized living space, depending on the number of people living together. "Government" in the bourgeois sense of the word will cease to exist. The administrative bodies will be workers' councils. Workers' councils preside over an area (basically a community), are elected through direct democracy and can be recalled whenever someone requests a recall vote and it is voted to recall that particular worker. These workers in the councils will not be just administrators. They will also hold jobs much like a normal citizen. Therefore, any political work done by someone is actually extra work which offers nothing to the citizen but respect from the community.

Workers' councils preside over a community. Larger regions would be presided over by workers' congresses, which consists of representatives sent by those workers' councils.

So like a town hall? I like that idea, but wonder how well it would work in large groups. I like the idea of opting out. I'd probably be an opter. smile.gif

Why would you opt out of participating in a society where everybody is equal, there is no oppression and everything is provided for you by the community?
Bahahah! Fuck you!

Get off your high fucking horse! First the sexist joke thing, now you're defending a RACIST CHRISTO FASCIST!?

Wow, I never thought I'd see that from someone here!

Then you want a warning point for "flaming"? Look what she posted on her blog! That IS Flaming! Any "flaming" back is deserved!

You deserve to be banned for defending this human scum! "Oh, but she's here to learn." Well boo-fucking-hoo, she should've shut her fucking trap about how immigrants are "brown sludge".

You AND her deserve to be banned.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:43

Samuel, thanks for the invite but I think that real time insults would just make me cry and would serve no purpose. Maybe when everyone is calmer and ready to dialogue.

I'm even starting to get snippy and I am not a snippy person.

Samuel

4th December 2005, 19:43

Ownthink, by using vulgar language and insiting on flaming, you work against what socialism is trying to accomplish. You simply perpetuate the myth that we are all punks/dangerous teens and make the general movement look bad. YOU should be banned.

Elect Marx

4th December 2005, 19:44

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 02:52 PM
Bahahah! Fuck you!

Get off your high fucking horse! First the sexist joke thing, now you're defending a RACIST CHRISTO FASCIST!?

Wow, I never thought I'd see that from someone here!

Then you want a warning point for "flaming"? Look what she posted on her blog! That IS Flaming! Any "flaming" back is deserved!

You deserve to be banned for defending this human scum! "Oh, but she's here to learn." Well boo-fucking-hoo, she should've shut her fucking trap about how immigrants are "brown sludge".

You AND her deserve to be banned.
No more flaming now! I'll let that slide since it was provoked but this isn't the place for a flame war.

4th December 2005, 19:45

I know why Mexicans immigrate. I spend quite a bit of time with friends in Cancun. I know about Marcos. I know people who know Marcos. Free trade is killing the farmers. American policy abroad is driving Mexicans here in droves. America is at fault! But unless Mexico grows some balls or America grows a heart, the problems that come with illegal immigration will not stop and will only get worse.

So why are you against the immigrants? If you realize that it is a fault of the governmental policies then why are you bashing the immigrants? It isn't merely the governments' problems; it is a problem inherent in capitalism. Free Trade is a necessity of capitalism's evolution, as businesses need to comptete to survive and competition has come to the point where companies need to globalize to survive.

Cubans want to escape the system you like!

Not many Cubans "want to escape". Actually, a very small percentage of the population does. Cuba is VERY far from the Authoritorian Hellhole that American Propaganda claims it to be. The majority of the population is very content; it is very democratic. Castro doesn't have nearly as much power as the US propaganda machine claims he has. A brief look at the Constitution of Cuba (http://www.cubanet.org/ref/dis/const_92_e.htm) proves this fact rather easily.

What's your solution? I would really like to hear it.

My solution is a proletarian revolution which overthrows the bourgeoisie and goes through the various stages of socialism to achieve communism.

So in the French Revolution the bourgoius got rid of the nobles and then they took over? Was the worker involved? Or would there have been workers in those days? I'm not good with history....would it have been farmers?

The workers of the time were part of the bourgeoisie. After the bourgeoisie as a whole took control of France, the proletariat evolved from it. This is the point when the bourgeoisie and the proletariat seperated and were opposed to each other. The bourgeoisie took control of France and became the new rulers. The proletariat developed from the old bourgeois class.

I'm sorry Lazar, I'm letting this get to me and I was rude to you. sad.gif

Don't worry about it.

Bahahah! Fuck you!

Get off your high fucking horse! First the sexist joke thing, now you're defending a RACIST CHRISTO FASCIST!?

Wow, I never thought I'd see that from someone here!

Then you want a warning point for "flaming"? Look what she posted on her blog! That IS Flaming! Any "flaming" back is deserved!

You deserve to be banned for defending this human scum! "Oh, but she's here to learn." Well boo-fucking-hoo, she should've shut her fucking trap about how immigrants are "brown sludge".

You AND her deserve to be banned.

I have never supported sexism/racism. Don't mention that unless you have ANY evidence to bring to the table. And if you do, post it in the appropriate thread. I am defending her because she hasn't broken forum rules. You flamed. She didn't. It doesn't matter what she says in her blog. We can't ban her for what she says anywhere else but here. So your argument isn't valid. You deserve a warning point for the flaming. That is what the guidelines dictate. If you have a personal vendetta against me after this for upholding forum guidelines and teaching the uneducated, I suggest that you grow up and stop being so immature.

Ownthink, by using vulgar language and insiting on flaming, you work against what socialism is trying to accomplish. You simply perpetuate the myth that we are all punks/dangerous teens and make the general movement look bad. YOU should be banned.

I think that would be a little extreme.

No more flaming now! I'll let that slide since it was provoked but this isn't the place for a flame war.

How on earth was that provoked? I said nothing to insult him! All I said was "you should get a warning point for that" which he should.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 19:46

"Oh, but she's here to learn."

I recall making the same statements as well in another thread.

Ownthink

4th December 2005, 19:48

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 02:54 PM
Ownthink, by using vulgar language and insiting on flaming, you work against what socialism is trying to accomplish. You simply perpetuate the myth that we are all punks/dangerous teens and make the general movement look bad. YOU should be banned.
Now how in the fuck is that? I cannot believe what I am seeing, so called "revolutionary leftists" are defending a racist. Wow.

Maybe she should stick to her Bible study classes and racist rallies if she thinks that me using (oh heaven fuck forbid, "VULGAR" language!) is perpetuating a myth that we are "dangerous teens"

Why hasn't she been banned yet? Do you people have bipolar disorder? I would expect her to be banned as soon as her blog was seen, but no, now we have geniuses like Lazar defending her.

Lord Testicles

4th December 2005, 19:49

Originally posted by Ownthink+Dec 4 2005, 06:40 PM--> (Ownthink @ Dec 4 2005, 06:40 PM) Maybe you should go fucking kill yourself and save someone else the trouble of having to waste their bullets. [/b]
lol, do you mind if i put that in my sig Ownthink?

Originally posted by [email protected]
I think that real time insults would just make me cry and would serve no purpose. Maybe when everyone is calmer and ready to dialogue.

I'm even starting to get snippy and I am not a snippy person.

maybe if you removed the link to your blog people might calm down, but i doubt your comments will be forgotten.

EDIT:
Ownthink
QUOTE (Samuel @ Dec 4 2005, 02:54 PM)
Ownthink, by using vulgar language and insiting on flaming, you work against what socialism is trying to accomplish. You simply perpetuate the myth that we are all punks/dangerous teens and make the general movement look bad. YOU should be banned.

Now how in the fuck is that? I cannot believe what I am seeing, so called "revolutionary leftists" are defending a racist. Wow.

Maybe she should stick to her Bible study classes and racist rallies if she thinks that me using (oh heaven fuck forbid, "VULGAR" language!) is perpetuating a myth that we are "dangerous teens"

Why hasn't she been banned yet? Do you people have bipolar disorder? I would expect her to be banned as soon as her blog was seen, but no, now we have geniuses like Lazar defending her.

He does have a point.

Ownthink

4th December 2005, 19:53

Originally posted by Skinz+Dec 4 2005, 03:00 PM--> (Skinz @ Dec 4 2005, 03:00 PM)
Originally posted by Ownthink+Dec 4 2005, 06:40 PM--> (Ownthink @ Dec 4 2005, 06:40 PM) Maybe you should go fucking kill yourself and save someone else the trouble of having to waste their bullets. [/b]
lol, do you mind if i put that in my sig Ownthink?

[email protected]
I think that real time insults would just make me cry and would serve no purpose. Maybe when everyone is calmer and ready to dialogue.

I'm even starting to get snippy and I am not a snippy person.

maybe if you removed the link to your blog people might calm down, but i doubt your comments will be forgotten.

EDIT:
Ownthink
QUOTE (Samuel @ Dec 4 2005, 02:54 PM)
Ownthink, by using vulgar language and insiting on flaming, you work against what socialism is trying to accomplish. You simply perpetuate the myth that we are all punks/dangerous teens and make the general movement look bad. YOU should be banned.

Now how in the fuck is that? I cannot believe what I am seeing, so called "revolutionary leftists" are defending a racist. Wow.

Maybe she should stick to her Bible study classes and racist rallies if she thinks that me using (oh heaven fuck forbid, "VULGAR" language!) is perpetuating a myth that we are "dangerous teens"

Why hasn't she been banned yet? Do you people have bipolar disorder? I would expect her to be banned as soon as her blog was seen, but no, now we have geniuses like Lazar defending her.

He does have a point. [/b]
Sure, put it in your sig, if you want.

Samuel

4th December 2005, 19:54

Originally posted by Skinz+Dec 4 2005, 08:00 PM--> (Skinz @ Dec 4 2005, 08:00 PM) EDIT:
Ownthink
QUOTE (Samuel @ Dec 4 2005, 02:54 PM)
Ownthink, by using vulgar language and insiting on flaming, you work against what socialism is trying to accomplish. You simply perpetuate the myth that we are all punks/dangerous teens and make the general movement look bad. YOU should be banned.

Now how in the fuck is that? I cannot believe what I am seeing, so called "revolutionary leftists" are defending a racist. Wow.

Maybe she should stick to her Bible study classes and racist rallies if she thinks that me using (oh heaven fuck forbid, "VULGAR" language!) is perpetuating a myth that we are "dangerous teens"

Why hasn't she been banned yet? Do you people have bipolar disorder? I would expect her to be banned as soon as her blog was seen, but no, now we have geniuses like Lazar defending her.

He does have a point. [/b]
Who, me or ownthink?

I don't care if owenthink has a problem with her. I am not defending her, I am completly against what she believes. I simple believe we should be respectful and open-minded.

4th December 2005, 19:55

Now how in the fuck is that? I cannot believe what I am seeing, so called "revolutionary leftists" are defending a racist. Wow.

Maybe she should stick to her Bible study classes and racist rallies if she thinks that me using (oh heaven fuck forbid, "VULGAR" language!) is perpetuating a myth that we are "dangerous teens"

Why hasn't she been banned yet? Do you people have bipolar disorder? I would expect her to be banned as soon as her blog was seen, but no, now we have geniuses like Lazar defending her.

Genius? I'm flattered!! :blush:

Maybe you missed my post. We don't ban people based on what they say elsewhere. They are judged completely by what is said on revleft and only revleft. As she has not broken forum guidelines, she will not be banned. As she has shown no intent to break guidelines, I'm guessing she won't be banned any time soon. :P

I don't care if he has a problem with her. I am not defending her, I am completly against what she believes. I simple believe we should be respectful and open-minded.

I agree.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 19:56

ownthink does have a point. valid, and one that should be considered.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 19:58

If we got tough on illegal immigration, then Mexico would have to DO something. In Mexico you are either rich or poor. I know people who work in the resorts for 5 dollars a day and get treated like garbage.

I am opposed to anyone having to leave their own country to make a living. Free trade is nothing but corporate fascism. Don't even get me started on Jamaica and the IMF! I am NOT a fascist and I have been among the VERY poor in Mexico. It breaks my heart to see people working in places they could NEVER afford to stay at and then to be treated as a guest of honor in their homes brought to me a sense of humbleness I can't even begin to describe to you. And who is there helping? CHRISTIANS LIKE ME! It kills me to see places like Xcaret devoted to the tourist charging a fortune and encompassing Maya runis that no Maya could afford to get into see!

I am a feeling person! But sometimes we need to be tough to show we care! We can't let everyone in, my goodness wouldn't Mexico LOVE that???? Fox would be so happy!

I'm actually being talked into a vacation in Cuba. I can fly there from here. If I end up being able to go, I will definately ask around. I can speak spanish somewhat.

I think now I also need a book on the French Revolution. :)

Ownthink

4th December 2005, 19:58

I simple believe we should be respectful and open-minded.
I will give no such respect to a racist fascist.

Genius? I'm flattered!!

Maybe you missed my post. We don't ban people based on what they say elsewhere. They are judged completely by what is said on revleft and only revleft. As she has not broken forum guidelines, she will not be banned. As she has shown no intent to break guidelines, I'm guessing she won't be banned any time soon.
You know, I think you fell for her careful but clever flame bait. I mean, she already had that trash written down, searches for Leftist boards (where she KNOWS she will be hated) and comes in under the pretext of "learning". Yeah, sure.

And people like you get pissed at me for being pissed at her in the first place.

Jack off to dead soldiers? No thanks, cheering is all I do in that section. But maybe you should give Annie a hug, I think it will be good for you to bond with someone like that.

4th December 2005, 19:59

ownthink does have a point. valid, and one that should be considered.

What point is that? I find Ownthink's rants to be pretty immature and more emotionally driven than anything.

I will give no such respect to a racist fascist.

If you don't uphold forum guidelines you will be punished accordingly.

You know, I think you fell for ger careful but clever flame bait. I mean, she already had that trash written down, searches for Leftist boards (where she KNOWS she will be hated) and comes in under the pretext of "learning". Yeah, sure.

You have no evidence of this. Even so, if she wants to come in here and she says she wants to learn, then I will teach her. I don't care if she ever had a "plan to piss people off." That's childish to even recommend that.

And people like you get pissed at me for being pissed at her in the first place.

I'm pissed at you for not putting any thought into this and letting your emotions override your logic.

LuÃs Henrique

4th December 2005, 20:00

He most certainly did! He threw the money changes from the temple! They were making you pay real money for temple money to buy sacrifices! And they charged a fee!

This is not capitalist exploitation. Capitalist exploitation is using private property to hire people to work, paying them just a fraction of what they produce.

Jesus was pissed!

He was pissed not because he thought someone was being exploited, but because he felt, as he stated more clearly in other ocasion, that no one can serve God and "mammon" (money) simultaneously.

And Christians are not allowed to this day to charge interest or even expect re-payment, whether or this teaching is practiced as I believe it should be.

I thought that had been downturned, for I certainly see lots of Christians charging interests or expecting re-payment. If it wasn't, how can someone be a Christian and effectively make a living in a society like ours?

Luís Henrique

Ownthink

4th December 2005, 20:01

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 03:10 PM

ownthink does have a point. valid, and one that should be considered.

What point is that? I find Ownthink's rants to be pretty immature and more emotionally driven than anything.
And I find your insults to be petty and not well thought out.

I also find your defense of a racist to be stupid as fuck, but hey, what can you expect from someone like that, eh?

Samuel

4th December 2005, 20:03

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:09 PM
If we got tough on illegal immigration, then Mexico would have to DO something. In Mexico you are either rich or poor. I know people who work in the resorts for 5 dollars a day and get treated like garbage.

I am opposed to anyone having to leave their own country to make a living. Free trade is nothing but corporate fascism. Don't even get me started on Jamaica and the IMF! I am NOT a fascist and I have been among the VERY poor in Mexico. It breaks my heart to see people working in places they could NEVER afford to stay at and then to be treated as a guest of honor in their homes brought to me a sense of humbleness I can't even begin to describe to you. And who is there helping? CHRISTIANS LIKE ME! It kills me to see places like Xcaret devoted to the tourist charging a fortune and encompassing Maya runis that no Maya could afford to get into see!

I am a feeling person! But sometimes we need to be tough to show we care! We can't let everyone in, my goodness wouldn't Mexico LOVE that???? Fox would be so happy!

I'm actually being talked into a vacation in Cuba. I can fly there from here. If I end up being able to go, I will definately ask around. I can speak spanish somewhat.

I think now I also need a book on the French Revolution. :)
I comend you on your fast thinking. You are coming up with "leftist friendly" answers at an alarming rate (the Bush administration is hireing...)

According to your blog, the "sludge" you care so much and want to "bar-code," "tatoo," and execute upon their second entery to this country, I think that you are not a "feeling" person. I think that you are concerned for the American who is too lazy to beat a "brown" unskilled, stupid, foreign language speeking person to any given job.

Perhaps you will stick to your position instead of modifying it to suit your needs (sounds like a certain leader of the "free" world...)

Lord Testicles

4th December 2005, 20:04

Originally posted by AnnieAngel+Dec 4 2005, 08:09 PM--> (AnnieAngel @ Dec 4 2005, 08:09 PM) But sometimes we need to be tough to show we care! We can't let everyone in, my goodness wouldn't Mexico LOVE that???? Fox would be so happy!

[/b]
Why cant you let everyone in, it would do your econamy wonders.

Originally posted by [email protected]
Who, me or ownthink?

I don't care if owenthink has a problem with her. I am not defending her, I am completly against what she believes. I simple believe we should be respectful and open-minded.

Both of you, Ownthink could be a bit more polite, but then does she really deserve it.

Lazar
They are judged completely by what is said on revleft and only revleft. As she has not broken forum guidelines, she will not be banned. As she has shown no intent to break guidelines, I'm guessing she won't be banned any time soon

So if someone from stromfront came here and acted polite and was really "interested" in our ideas, we wouldnt ban them?

4th December 2005, 20:07

And I find your insults to be petty and not well thought out.

I only insulted you once.

So if someone from stromfront came here and acted polite and was really "interested" in our ideas, we wouldnt ban them?

As long as they don't violate guidelines.

Ownthink

4th December 2005, 20:09

As long as they don't violate guidelines.
And that, ladies and gentleman, is what I call Stupidity

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 20:10

I'm not leftist-friendly or maybe I am I DON"T KNOW.

Bit of background on me, I have witnessed in Mexico and New Orleans. I have given my own money to poor families and paid for private school for two children in Mexico. I have seen and lived in poverty. I am a Christian. I believe in charity. I think that screwing over the poor in their own country sucks.

But anyone who comes here illegally is a criminal. Period. I have admitted both here and on my blog that I may have been over the top in what I wrote.

I'm sorry! Good enough? I understand that not everyone feels the same way I feel, and I don't even know how I feel right now I am confused!

But one thing I do know is that you are treating me the way you say I treat others and yet only when you claim I am doing it is it bad!

4th December 2005, 20:14

And that, ladies and gentleman, is what I call Stupidity

Not really, considering the guidelines root out about 99% of stormfronters.

Bit of background on me, I have witnessed in Mexico and New Orleans. I have given my own money to poor families and paid for private school for two children in Mexico. I have seen and lived in poverty. I am a Christian. I believe in charity. I think that screwing over the poor in their own country sucks.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.

But anyone who comes here illegally is a criminal. Period. I have admitted both here and on my blog that I may have been over the top in what I wrote.

Why? Why are you so intent on borders? Is it "national pride"? What is it?

Samuel

4th December 2005, 20:15

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:21 PM
I'm not leftist-friendly or maybe I am I DON"T KNOW.

Bit of background on me, I have witnessed in Mexico and New Orleans. I have given my own money to poor families and paid for private school for two children in Mexico. I have seen and lived in poverty. I am a Christian. I believe in charity. I think that screwing over the poor in their own country sucks.

But anyone who comes here illegally is a criminal. Period. I have admitted both here and on my blog that I may have been over the top in what I wrote.

I'm sorry! Good enough? I understand that not everyone feels the same way I feel, and I don't even know how I feel right now I am confused!

But one thing I do know is that you are treating me the way you say I treat others and yet only when you claim I am doing it is it bad!
How am I treading you terribly? Am I shooting you for joining this board? Am I forcing you to shop in a "republicans only" store? Am I putting permanant writing in the form of a tatoo on your face and sending you back to where you came from?

No.

I am having a respectul descussion.

And making spelling/grammer errors (please excuse them).

angus_mor

4th December 2005, 20:15

Anniewhatever,

I would like to advise you of many a resourceful insight in which you can apply to your own personal knowledge. There are lots of websites that have the information you can acquire with out bothering leftists who are offended by reactionary ignorance; marxists.org is a great one that I have found never steers me wrong in the name of information. Look in the info bins of various forums you have access to, they have numerous links which I myself could not stand around reciting all day.

In regards to your blog, do yourself and others a favor and do some research before publishing(I consider making public literature of any kind publishing; posting in lamens terms) your ignorant ideas, you might look sensible, worthy of being addressed in discussion, and least of all, reactionary. We all make mistakes, and we should all take responsibility for them, I know what pulling shit out of my ass gets me, I've done it.

In regards to your personal philosophy, you have been suckered into contradicting your own religious beliefs, and the racist ethics you were raised with have blinded you from having even basic common sense. The Bible itself spreads the idea of camaradery; love thy nieghbor, it believes in a utopianism which is accomplished through the self realisation of human kind. It supports the idea of keeping the fruits if one's own labor, anti-squandery; charitability is at the heart of most christian organisations(though those funds aren't actually to the benefit of those they claim to help). With this in mind, the idea of Christian Socialism has come about; this is something which might interest you at great length, though they aren't liked any better than Stalinists here. There are, however, members of RL who are communists, and have a religious belief; cormacobear is catholic, for example. He is a well repected member of this website, though is firm in a separation of church and state (not so much in your angle).

I am Seth Mor MacDonald, a Left Communist, and wish not to seem over-antagonising, though I feel that it is quite necessary in your case. Welcome to the community, I welcome counter-argument from you, and there are many threads you have access to which you are welcome to politely dissent in regards to the board rules (more bureaucratic blah blah blah). If you can, come in live chat, I am there frequently, and would be happy to personally answer any and all querries.

You might find I have a sense of humor too, though often eccentric and loose in thought... can you tell I smoke a little bit of cannabis once in a while? =D I, personally, am an atheist, Communist, liberal, ACLU, burnout type, so it's eternal hell-fire for me =p. The Hindu people believe Shiva gave them cannabis to use for any and all purposes in life, so LETS PARTY!!! By the way, if you wanna meet God, take a couple hits of acid, he's a cool guy, we partied with Bhudda for a while and toured with Zeppelin and the Dead =P

Oh well, be cool, peace out, and above all, think for YOURSELF!

Samuel

4th December 2005, 20:20

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:26 PM
Anniewhatever,

I would like to advise you of many a resourceful insight in which you can apply to your own personal knowledge. There are lots of websites that have the information you can acquire with out bothering leftists who are offended by reactionary ignorance; marxists.org is a great one that I have found never steers me wrong in the name of information. Look in the info bins of various forums you have access to, they have numerous links which I myself could not stand around reciting all day.

In regards to your blog, do yourself and others a favor and do some research before publishing(I consider making public literature of any kind publishing; posting in lamens terms) your ignorant ideas, you might look sensible, worthy of being addressed in discussion, and least of all, reactionary. We all make mistakes, and we should all take responsibility for them, I know what pulling shit out of my ass gets me, I've done it.

In regards to your personal philosophy, you have been suckered into contradicting your own religious beliefs, and the racist ethics you were raised with have blinded you from having even basic common sense. The Bible itself spreads the idea of camaradery; love thy nieghbor, it believes in a utopianism which is accomplished through the self realisation of human kind. It supports the idea of keeping the fruits if one's own labor, anti-squandery; charitability is at the heart of most christian organisations(though those funds aren't actually to the benefit of those they claim to help). With this in mind, the idea of Christian Socialism has come about; this is something which might interest you at great length, though they aren't liked any better than Stalinists here. There are, however, members of RL who are communists, and have a religious belief; cormacobear is catholic, for example. He is a well repected member of this website, though is firm in a separation of church and state (not so much in your angle).

I am Seth Mor MacDonald, a Left Communist, and wish not to seem over-antagonising, though I feel that it is quite necessary in your case. Welcome to the community, I welcome counter-argument from you, and there are many threads you have access to which you are welcome to politely dissent in regards to the board rules (more bureaucratic blah blah blah). If you can, come in live chat, I am there frequently, and would be happy to personally answer any and all querries.

You might find I have a sense of humor too, though often eccentric and loose in thought... can you tell I smoke a little bit of cannabis once in a while? =D I, personally, am an atheist, Communist, liberal, ACLU, burnout type, so it's eternal hell-fire for me =p. The Hindu people believe Shiva gave them cannabis to use for any and all purposes in life, so LETS PARTY!!! By the way, if you wanna meet God, take a couple hits of acid, he's a cool guy, we partied with Bhudda for a while and toured with Zeppelin and the Dead =P

Oh well, be cool, peace out, and above all, think for YOURSELF!

Maybe telling someone such as annie who might turn you in that you smoke bud and even hint at taking acid isn't a good idea.

Very well composed post, however. Maggy would be proud.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 20:26

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:25 PM

Bit of background on me, I have witnessed in Mexico and New Orleans. I have given my own money to poor families and paid for private school for two children in Mexico. I have seen and lived in poverty. I am a Christian. I believe in charity. I think that screwing over the poor in their own country sucks.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.

But anyone who comes here illegally is a criminal. Period. I have admitted both here and on my blog that I may have been over the top in what I wrote.

Why? Why are you so intent on borders? Is it "national pride"? What is it?
Send two kids to school and they can feed their families forever. Give people money and they can buy cheap materials to fix their "homes."

I'm not intent on borders, but they are there. I can't sneak into Mexico and take a job from anyone, nor should I be able to! There are very good laws, you need to hire 10 Mexicans to 1 non-Mexican in the resorts, and that is a new law so they are trying a bit. However, look at the difference in salary and job position of the Mexican to Non and you're wondering how fair it really is. And don't forget that a lot of the Mexicans you meet in Mexico are not really Mexican but illegals from somewhere else in Latin America. Mexico is a big step up for them.

If America opened her borders, there would be no room for anyone.

You have to admit, Lazar, that the borders are there for a long time, no mass Revolution will take place in the forseeable future so it is much better to have people being able to stay where their families and lives are rather than to have to move far away to a strange place and take a crappy job for little money.

And also, look at who hires illegals, if we fined those guys really hard, they might not be so interested in hiring illegals. I've heard that said as well and just as easily could have ranted against that practice.

LuÃs Henrique

4th December 2005, 20:29

Why cant you let everyone in, it would do your econamy wonders.

Because what does wonders to your economy isn't foreign workers, but having two different cathegories of workers, so that you can overexploit the first, and blame the second's problem on it.

"Illegality" of people movement is as essential to capitalism as the "legality" of capital movement.

Luís Henrique

Samuel

4th December 2005, 20:32

Originally posted by AnnieAngel+Dec 4 2005, 08:37 PM--> (AnnieAngel @ Dec 4 2005, 08:37 PM)
[email protected] 4 2005, 08:25 PM

Bit of background on me, I have witnessed in Mexico and New Orleans. I have given my own money to poor families and paid for private school for two children in Mexico. I have seen and lived in poverty. I am a Christian. I believe in charity. I think that screwing over the poor in their own country sucks.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.

But anyone who comes here illegally is a criminal. Period. I have admitted both here and on my blog that I may have been over the top in what I wrote.

Why? Why are you so intent on borders? Is it "national pride"? What is it?
Send two kids to school and they can feed their families forever. Give people money and they can buy cheap materials to fix their "homes."

I'm not intent on borders, but they are there. I can't sneak into Mexico and take a job from anyone, nor should I be able to! There are very good laws, you need to hire 10 Mexicans to 1 non-Mexican in the resorts, and that is a new law so they are trying a bit. However, look at the difference in salary and job position of the Mexican to Non and you're wondering how fair it really is. And don't forget that a lot of the Mexicans you meet in Mexico are not really Mexican but illegals from somewhere else in Latin America. Mexico is a big step up for them.

If America opened her borders, there would be no room for anyone.

You have to admit, Lazar, that the borders are there for a long time, no mass Revolution will take place in the forseeable future so it is much better to have people being able to stay where their families and lives are rather than to have to move far away to a strange place and take a crappy job for little money.

And also, look at who hires illegals, if we fined those guys really hard, they might not be so interested in hiring illegals. I've heard that said as well and just as easily could have ranted against that practice. [/b]
And yet our southern friends still come here in droves. Maybe there is a reason that they take the bad working conditions of the north over the worse ones of the south.

What do you meen "room"?

Is it population density? The US's density is far lower than many eurpopen and asian states. Maybe we could squeze in a few more and make a few lives better, eh?

The land of "Freedom and Oppertunity" promises to be a land of Liberty and Justice to all. Do the "brown" people not count? Do the Mexicans and the Venezuelans and the Panamanians not count? What is promised to one must be promised to all, no exceptions.

LuÃs Henrique

4th December 2005, 20:33

But anyone who comes here illegally is a criminal. Period.

It is illegal to preach Christianity in Saudi Arabia. So, anyone who preaches Christianity in Saudi Arabia is a criminal. Comma. Would you agree with that? Why not? Would you refrain from preaching Christianity in Saudi Arabia because of that? Why not?

Luís Henrique

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 20:34

Turn people in? To who? The Romans? I'm CHRISTIAN! I don't turn people in, I try to turn them onto God! Sheesh! You want to see something about me? That is from before I came here???

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=16...331119701489047 (http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=16286504&postID=113331119701489047)

Go see how a Christian treated me for saying that forgiveness was above punishment to God!!!

Go see! Then come back on here and JUDGE me!

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 20:38

Originally posted by Luís [email protected] 4 2005, 08:44 PM

But anyone who comes here illegally is a criminal.* Period.

It is illegal to preach Christianity in Saudi Arabia. So, anyone who preaches Christianity in Saudi Arabia is a criminal. Comma. Would you agree with that? Why not? Would you refrain from preaching Christianity in Saudi Arabia because of that? Why not?

Luís Henrique
I would not preach in Saudi. I would try to learn about their culture and if asked I would answer questions from a point of view that would not be considered preaching. I would respect their beliefs in their home, as I am respecting yours.

Samuel

4th December 2005, 20:39

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:45 PM
Turn people in? To who? The Romans? I'm CHRISTIAN! I don't turn people in, I try to turn them onto God! Sheesh! You want to see something about me? That is from before I came here???

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=16...331119701489047 (http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=16286504&postID=113331119701489047)

Go see how a Christian treated me for saying that forgiveness was above punishment to God!!!

Go see! Then come back on here and JUDGE me!
So we SHOULDN'T kill the bar-coded tatooed "brown" people if they re-enter the country. Sounds a little hypoctitical (you should SERIOUSLY consider running for public office).

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 20:40

Samuel, if people follow the rules to come here, GREAT! If they sneak in they are criminals.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 20:42

Sam are you trolling me for kicks? I have said I was over the top and also said sorry.

Samuel

4th December 2005, 20:43

No, you advocated a complete shutdown of immigration with special work visas for all people. They would have been following the rules, but you still want to shoot them if they stay a day late. Also, what happened to "turning people to god"? You have an amazing gift for position-adapting. I bet 49% of the country would vote for you in a presidential election (and then use the supreme court to get you into office anyway).

Ownthink

4th December 2005, 20:49

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 03:53 PM
Sam are you trolling me for kicks? I have said I was over the top and also said sorry.
I honestly think you're trolling us "for kicks".

Samuel

4th December 2005, 20:51

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:53 PM
Sam are you trolling me for kicks? I have said I was over the top and also said sorry.
Yet you persist to to spew out hypoctitical statements. Refute your position, I don't care if you're sorry. It means nothing to me. One's inner feelings have no pertinance to a situation at hand. You must act. Refute the statements on your blog with another post ON THAT BLOG. I don't care what you say to get us to shut up, I wan't you to tell the world that you admit you were wrong.

The political jokes are for my benefit, not yours. Take them or leave them, they are directed towards the Bush administration and not you.

CCCPneubauten

4th December 2005, 20:55

So what you are saying is that the Native Americans should brand and or kill us?

Wow.

Samuel

4th December 2005, 20:56

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 09:06 PM
So what you are saying is that the Native Americans should brand and or kill us?

Wow.
Point and case. Well put, CCCPneubauten.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 21:04

I would not preach in Saudi. I would try to learn about their culture and if asked I would answer questions from a point of view that would not be considered preaching. I would respect their beliefs in their home, as I am respecting yours.

Even uttering Christian doctrine is illegal. The religious police would certainly arrest you. Its complete oppression. Your answer isn't sufficient.

also, stop hiding behind your so called religion. Your religion beliefs, if sincere would not simply be suspended because you wanted to "follow the law of the land". If you believe in charity, and helping the poor, coming from your christian roots, but deemed illegal, would you then stop doing those same actions?

Also, you are a racist. In the 17th century America, blacks were branded with their master's symbol. Your blog, and so called "illegal" people is no different. Also, people who cross borders is not illegal. the law of the land only reflect its ruling class. Resistance comes in many forms, and us as good citizens should help break down borders, and help people improve their lives.

You can not, as you claim say America is at fault for creating poverty in Mexico, then blame mexicans for fleeing the conditions which america created. That is inconsistent.

Forward Union

4th December 2005, 21:05

From the site:

"four principles; individual freedom, social and economic equality, free association, and mutual aid (i.e. cooperation and solidarity). "

I like it. The message is good once you don't just see black clothes and face bandanas. You guys need better PR!

Well, yea, but the media hates us, it's controlled by or influenced by major bussinesses/government. So guess who they're bias toward? 99% of people I have spoken to hate Anarchism/communism but furthermore have completely wrong ideas about what Anarchism and Communism are.

LuÃs Henrique

4th December 2005, 21:09

I honestly think you're trolling us "for kicks".

Quite probably... but look at that legs and then tell me you don't want some kicks, you pervert... :lol:

Luís Henrique

Free Palestine

4th December 2005, 21:15

Does anyone find it simply hilarious that she lists "Tool," "Radiohead," and "Bob Marley" under her favorite music? I wonder how big a Maynard fan she is and if she likes Perfect Circle. I can just see her bobbing her head to "Judith" and not realizing he's singing "Fuck your GODDDDDD! Your Lord, Your Christ... HE DID THIIIIIS! Took all you had and LEFT YOU THIS WAY! Still you prayed, never strayed never TASTE OF THE FRUIT!! Never thought to question why.." :lol:

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 21:23

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 09:15 PM

I would not preach in Saudi. I would try to learn about their culture and if asked I would answer questions from a point of view that would not be considered preaching. I would respect their beliefs in their home, as I am respecting yours.

Even uttering Christian doctrine is illegal. The religious police would certainly arrest you. Its complete oppression. Your answer isn't sufficient.

also, stop hiding behind your so called religion. Your religion beliefs, if sincere would not simply be suspended because you wanted to "follow the law of the land". If you believe in charity, and helping the poor, coming from your christian roots, but deemed illegal, would you then stop doing those same actions?

Charity is illegal in Saudi? Why do I see those ladies on tv sitting in the road begging?

If I wasn't allowed to preach I wouldn't. Why is that so hard for you to accept? I can always just hang out with the rich Saudis, they break the rules all the time. :)

Samuel

4th December 2005, 21:26

Originally posted by AnnieAngel+Dec 4 2005, 09:34 PM--> (AnnieAngel @ Dec 4 2005, 09:34 PM)
[email protected] 4 2005, 09:15 PM

I would not preach in Saudi. I would try to learn about their culture and if asked I would answer questions from a point of view that would not be considered preaching. I would respect their beliefs in their home, as I am respecting yours.

Even uttering Christian doctrine is illegal. The religious police would certainly arrest you. Its complete oppression. Your answer isn't sufficient.

also, stop hiding behind your so called religion. Your religion beliefs, if sincere would not simply be suspended because you wanted to "follow the law of the land". If you believe in charity, and helping the poor, coming from your christian roots, but deemed illegal, would you then stop doing those same actions?

Charity is illegal in Saudi? Why do I see those ladies on tv sitting in the road begging?

If I wasn't allowed to preach I wouldn't. Why is that so hard for you to accept? I can always just hang out with the rich Saudis, they break the rules all the time. :) [/b]
Since you wouldn't preach if it wasn't allowed, then you don't question the law? Also, not everything you see on FOX news is true.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 21:27

I love tool, don't know perfect circle. I have no idea what he is saying and don't care. The music puts me right to sleep as does Radiohead. He sings like an angel.

What's wrong with Bob Marley? I actually also really like a band I heard in Mexico, Control Machete and am sad they broke up. Music is music. So what? I should censor myself to what music I *should* like? Is that what you do?

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 21:29

It's not my law to question. I hate when the JW's come to my house. The law says they can do it though. What's the difference? I'd be a guest in their culture.

Hegemonicretribution

4th December 2005, 21:30

A bit on "our" views (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=43133)

The link is something I tried to post to clear up misconceptions of people with some idea, although incorrect, of what Marxism is.

In response to some of the other things you have said. According to your economics, should population not be subject to supply and demand? Not everyone would move to America, this is a misconception, in fact there is a very anti-American sentiment in much of the third, second andf first worlds. Also if everyone went there, then the benifits would disapear and people would go elsewhere. Also you are from the original immigrants, who were not legal.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 21:37

Charity is illegal in Saudi? Why do I see those ladies on tv sitting in the road begging?

It was a hypothetical, conditional statement. Let's go over this again

If you believe in charity, and helping the poor, coming from your christian roots, but deemed illegal, would you then stop doing those same actions?

if you believe in charity, and helping the poor, coming from your christian roots (why you do it), but this practice was illegal, would you then stop doing those same actions? (because they were illegal)

If you stop doing them because its illegal, then your not a Christian. If you do stop doing those actions, then you are breaking the law. You would then be a criminal, and according to you, criminals are basically scum. Which actions do you choose?

Also, you are completely inconsistent in your thinking. You can not, as you claim say America is at fault for creating poverty in Mexico, then blame mexicans for fleeing the conditions which america created.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 21:42

I love tool, don't know perfect circle.

How could you know one without the other? Any fan would know this. Also, I do not know any fan of tool who is also is a Christian, especially with eulogy.

It's not my law to question. I hate when the JW's come to my house. The law says they can do it though. What's the difference? I'd be a guest in their culture.

Actually it is. Republics come from the consent of the governed. If law is oppressive to the ones who give the right to governments, then the laws are themselves null and void.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 21:44

If charity, etc, were made illegal in MY home, I would become a christo-anarchist. If I am visiting Saudi by choice (don't even know if I would be allowed in) then I am their guest and a guest doesn't break the dishes.

Plus, I blame the Mexican government that Mexicans are fleeing.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 21:47

I have 2 Tool Cd's. Undertow and Aenima. As I said, no idea what he says and don't care. I like the music.

I do like the one part I can pick out:

I'm praying for rain
I'm praying for tidal waves

I forget the rest but that part is really pretty.

I don't understand the second part of your post.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 21:52

If charity, etc, were made illegal in MY home, I would become a christo-anarchist.

I'm not talking about your home. I'm talking about law. Also, how can you claim that you do not know anything about leftist thinking, but then claim you would be an anarchist? Either, you are lying about not knowing leftist thinking (which some have claimed) or, you simply do not know anything about anarchism and the very notion of “christo-anarchist” is a contradiction. Therefore, either you are a lier, or you do not know anything about anarchism, but using the term to suit your own position. Tomorrow, if it suited I'm sure you be a communist-fascist.

Plus, I blame the Mexican government that Mexicans are fleeing

But you said the US is the cause of Mexican suffering? Now its the government of Mexico?

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 21:53

Perhaps you should look up the lyrics. the song you quoted refers to death and destruction and the sinking of Cali "see you down in arizona bay"

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 21:54

Originally posted by Additives [email protected] 4 2005, 09:16 PM

From the site:

"four principles; individual freedom, social and economic equality, free association, and mutual aid (i.e. cooperation and solidarity). "

I like it. The message is good once you don't just see black clothes and face bandanas. You guys need better PR!

Well, yea, but the media hates us, it's controlled by or influenced by major bussinesses/government. So guess who they're bias toward? 99% of people I have spoken to hate Anarchism/communism but furthermore have completely wrong ideas about what Anarchism and Communism are.
I have really had to pull teeth here, just a FWI. It's hard to get a dialouge going through so much anger.

The theory is sound, but the reaction I have recieved here makes this working class Christian think that she wouldn't have any place in your perfect society.

Would I?

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 21:56

Republics are founded on the consent of the people. If the people do not consent to be governed, then there is no government. Government establishes laws, but since governments comes from the people, the inference follows, that laws also come from the people.

If A, then B
B, then C
therefore A = C

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 21:57

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 10:03 PM

If charity, etc, were made illegal in MY home, I would become a christo-anarchist.

I'm not talking about your home. I'm talking about law. Also, how can you claim that you do not know anything about leftist thinking, but then claim you would be an anarchist? Either, you are lying about not knowing leftist thinking (which some have claimed) or, you simply do not know anything about anarchism and the very notion of “christo-anarchist” is a contradiction. Therefore, either you are a lier, or you do not know anything about anarchism, but using the term to suit your own position. Tomorrow, if it suited I'm sure you be a communist-fascist.

Plus, I blame the Mexican government that Mexicans are fleeing

But you said the US is the cause of Mexican suffering? Now its the government of Mexico?
I'm learning what anarchism is. I would be against any government that is against the prinicpals of charity and love. Don't you get tired of being so negative and never looking for the positive? A christo-anarchist would be someone like JESUS!

The US is responisible for free trade screwing everyone. The Mexican government is corrupt. The two play off each other and the poor lose.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 21:58

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 10:07 PM
Republics are founded on the consent of the people. If the people do not consent to be governed, then there is no government. Government establishes laws, but since governments comes from the people, the inference follows, that laws also come from the people.

If A, then B
B, then C
therefore A = C
Then it's not really legal for JW's to go door to door? I'm lost here.

CCCPneubauten

4th December 2005, 21:59

"Posted: Dec 4 2005, 09:06 PM
Report PostEdit PostQuote Post

So what you are saying is that the Native Americans should brand and or kill us?

Wow. "

I laugh at the fact you refuse to respond to that...

You seem like a standard Republican, ignore and plug your ears when your logic comes incontact with truth.

Lord Testicles

4th December 2005, 22:02

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:37 PM

You have to admit that the borders are there for a long time, no mass Revolution will take place in the forseeable future so it is much better to have people being able to stay where their families and lives are rather than to have to move far away to a strange place and take a crappy job for little money.

The American borders havent been there for a long time, they havent been there 200 years, America is a country of imigrants and invaders so how can you turn away other imigrants?
Plus that view is very arrogant who says they dont want to move away and take a "crappy" job with little money, maybe that job may seem under paid to you and crappy but maybe its a step up from what they used to do.

Bannockburn

4th December 2005, 22:06

I'm learning what anarchism is. I would be against any government that is against the prinicpals of charity and love.

If you are against any government which is against charity and love, but if made illegal, then you would be against the government. But a the same time you support governments who builds borders to keep “brown” illegal people out. That is not love, or charity. Charity is more than what is in your wallet. Therefore, either you are against immigration, and you contradict your views posted in your blog, or again you simply are suiting your views according to the argument, and support governments who builds borders.

A christo-anarchist would be someone like JESUS!

How can you claim you know nothing about anarchism, but then claim Jesus as one? Either you know what anarchism is and can apply it to Jesus, or you do not know what anarchism is, and you don't know anything about Jesus. However, you claim thus far in your own words that you “would become a christo-anarchist”.

The two play off each other and the poor lose.

So you blame the government for creating poverty, but support the same government who created that government about their immigration policy? Look above at my previous posts concerning this inconsistency.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 22:17

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 10:10 PM
"Posted: Dec 4 2005, 09:06 PM
Report PostEdit PostQuote Post

So what you are saying is that the Native Americans should brand and or kill us?

Wow. "

I laugh at the fact you refuse to respond to that...

You seem like a standard Republican, ignore and plug your ears when your logic comes incontact with truth.
Sorry I missed it. No refusal.

Well the Natives could have if they could have maintained control of the land. Same as the Mexicans could be living in Texas right now if they had defeated Texas in the Texian Revolution.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 22:20

In what I have read today, Jesus could be classifed as an anarchist. He was all for toppling the accepted order.

Nothing stopping people from trying to get here legally. But if they are illegal, they are a criminal. I am agaisnt that. If you really don't get it by now, there is no sense beating a dead horse. You are being beligerant.

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 22:21

There is no contradiciton, they are two different governments. Mexico bent right over. So did Canada.

Samuel

4th December 2005, 22:29

Originally posted by AnnieAngel+Dec 4 2005, 10:28 PM--> (AnnieAngel @ Dec 4 2005, 10:28 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 10:10 PM
"Posted: Dec 4 2005, 09:06 PM
Report PostEdit PostQuote Post

So what you are saying is that the Native Americans should brand and or kill us?

Wow. "

I laugh at the fact you refuse to respond to that...

You seem like a standard Republican, ignore and plug your ears when your logic comes incontact with truth.
Sorry I missed it. No refusal.

Well the Natives could have if they could have maintained control of the land. Same as the Mexicans could be living in Texas right now if they had defeated Texas in the Texian Revolution. [/b]
So if I am a mexican and I fight with a white man and I win, I get to keep his house/money/political clout?

[email protected] 4 2005, 09:38 PM
I love tool, don't know perfect circle. I have no idea what he is saying and don't care. The music puts me right to sleep as does Radiohead. He sings like an angel.

What's wrong with Bob Marley? I actually also really like a band I heard in Mexico, Control Machete and am sad they broke up. Music is music. So what? I should censor myself to what music I *should* like? Is that what you do?
Humm. what about "Burning your Cat Stevens Records?" So what they say in their music doesn't matter, but what they believe outside of it does. What is wrong with "Muslimity" (Muslimity is not a word, Islam is)? Has it hurt you? Did it insult your honor?

Or is it because the terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center happened to be Muslim? How would you classify, say, the Crusades? They lead campagns against an unspecting and unprepared Islamic population in their time, so I guess that Christianity is also a hateful religion and we should burn our Tool and out Bob Marley records too.

Samuel

4th December 2005, 22:37

Double Post, please remove

AnnieAngel

4th December 2005, 22:53

This will be my last post tonight, unless I can get to the computer later around midnight or so. I'm in a bit of trouble right now.

I would not listen to any music written by anyone who advocates religion wide murder fatwas against someone who wrote a book. This person is not for peace as I thought he was, "Islam" has ripped the peace right out of his soul. If he saw Rushdie, he would have killed him.

Burning the albums was a post title, I didn't tell others to do so in the post. It was a joke, but again, it seems no one here has any sense of humor.

Thanks for an interesting day, I've learned some new things, thanks lazar and additives free, you taught me quite a lot. If you don't mind, I will consider you rational anarchists. :) (meant in friendship, not anything bad)

Annie

Samuel

4th December 2005, 22:59

you didnt respond to the first part of my quote.

Islam, actualy, is very closely related to christianity and you still have not adressed my point about crusades or my mexican fight against the white man.

poetofrageX

4th December 2005, 23:02

AnnieAngel, Islam is not a hateful religon, the Qu'ran is very specific about the rules of Jihad, the murder of civilians, women and children is strictly forbidden. Th "Muslimity" you're thinking of is the work of extremists, and they do not represent the views of all Muslims. The KKK is claims to be Christian, does that mean all Christians are racist murderer's? No, but thats the logic you're using.

poetofrageX

4th December 2005, 23:11

btw, how could YOU love Bob Marley? He was a Rastafarian, which means he worshiped Ethiopian Emporer Haile Selasssie( aka Ras Tafari Mekonnen) as the incarnation of Jesus Christ.

I assume that now that you know this, you'll proceed to burn all of your Bob Marley records next to you Cat Stevens(btw, call him Yusef Islam, thats his name now) ones.

Free Palestine

4th December 2005, 23:23

I think it's clear to us all where you were coming from, Annie. No need to back away now. Music CDs are only "blasphemous" and deserving to be burned if it's a Muslim who produced them! If said person is an atheist or otherwise.. Well, then "I like the music, and I don't care what he says. Music is music!" :rolleyes:

As far as you claiming to not know of A Perfect Circle.. I could easily expound on the matter by naming off 4 other songs by Maynard (the exact same singer) which you not only listen to, but are seemingly unaware how anti-religion they actually are.

P.S. -- I'm with Ownthink. Lets crucify this *****. Send her back to stormfront swingin' on a cross. :)

angus_mor

4th December 2005, 23:52

Annie,

Your defense of capitalism is a joke, you have no understanding of political economy, if you did, you would know that in order for American corporations to be making the record profits they currently have, it requires illegal labor. Which means that if corporations are making record profits, and as any "good capitalist" knows, this is good in their eyes, then that means that illegal immigrants are GOOD for the country. Wal Mart and McDonald's have a limited skill range, it is essential to their business to have a cheap work force. This is the labor power of the 21st century, since its basic inception with the industrial revolution in Ford's assembly line, progressing down the business chain as far as the food-service industry in McDonald's famous Burgers. It creates a lower class, the concept of minimum wage means that there is not only a divide in labor, but of class strata.

Bannockburn

5th December 2005, 01:16

In what I have read today, Jesus could be classifed as an anarchist. He was all for toppling the accepted order.

Well clearly not. Simply because you want to topple “the accepted order” does not necessitates you being an anarchist. Actually, the fact that Jesus believed in God was amount to him not being an anarchist. Again, this refers back to my first posts which you are clearly ignoring because you are full of contradictions and inconsistencies.

You can not claim to know “nothing” about anarchism, then claim that Jesus was an anarchist. If you do not know anything about anarchism you could not apply it to predicate it to a subject. So, Either you know enough about anarchist thinking where you can predicate it, or you are simply applying the term without any merit to its logical consistency.

There is no contradiciton, they are two different governments. Mexico bent right over. So did Canada.

Its a complete contradiction. You can not claim at the very same time that the United State creates Mexican poverty, then because of that poverty, blame immigrants feeing the very conditions that the same government created, and you likewise support.

Its like saying I don't support murder, but I support murderers.

Okay, Mexican government “bent right over”. You can not claim that the Mexican government is corrupt, but then try to blame them for not bending over, and they should have stood up to the US. Bending over and being corrupt goes hand and hand. Moreover, you can not them blame immigrates leaving a country, but then say they should stay “where they belong”. Its like saying no Jew should have left Nazi Germany. If anything, by that same logic, they are all political refugees, and should be granted asylum.

Nothing stopping people from trying to get here legally. But if they are illegal, they are a criminal. I am agaisnt that. If you really don't get it by now, there is no sense beating a dead horse. You are being beligerant

I think I've already shown the fallacy of this in my previous posts. By all means, I think you need to re-read it. You are against poor starving immigrants fleeing corrupt governments (according to you, Mexico), and support the same government who imposed those economic policies which caused the very conditions for which they are fleeing (USA). However, you say you don't support the US government because of its free trade, but at the very same time support the government's policy of immigration fleeing the very conditions which you say you don't support

I don't get it because you are being inconsistent. I have shown this throughout this entire thread. I also don't get it because you refuse to answer, and simply hide behind ignorance and Christianity. I'm more than happy to “get it” provided you have a coherent position concerning immigration. We already have a clear picture of what you think, and I've shown the inconsistencies of that. You are a racist, and you use “illegal immigration” as a cloak in order to show your bigotry. I have shown that you that you are inconsistent concerning your position. I have also shown that you are inconsistent concerning your beliefs of Christianity and your idea of love and charity.

I am not being belligerent, I am simply showing you contradictions and hypocrisy. Moreover, I have clearly shown, or at least attempt to show that your statements concerning the United States, and Mexico simply deception on your part in order to hide your racist thinking. You hide behind “I'm a Christian women”, but you really think (by your beliefs) that the United States is threaten by a “brown tide of immigration”.

I would also like to point your attention that you are a lier. For one thing you are completely against immigration legal or illegal. From your blog There is an endless stream of legal and illegal immigrants washing up on our shores like detritus from some unholy hurricane of excrement.

You have clearly said a few times you have no problem with legal immigration, but clearly this evidence suppose otherwise. Which one is it?

Again

We need zero immigration and we need it NOW

Again

The legals are even worse

Again

They are taking jobs away from our own American lower class. Look at Texas, it’s pretty much being over-run with these people. Our black folk who were willing to work at these jobs are being pushed out by these brown immigrants

Immigrants, legal and illegal who don’t know how to take care of themselves and be clean and so end up burdening our hospitals unnecessarily.

I could get into the bar-coding, tattooing and branding. But I don't think I will.

NovelGentry

5th December 2005, 01:41

I'm always to willing to stand up for the Lord.

Yes, no doubt a supposed all powerful being and creator of the universe needs you to stand up for it.

Bannockburn

5th December 2005, 01:55

I can't believe I missed this.

I'm not a racist or an immigrant. I am a visitor to Canada. I'm quite close to Hamilton actually. I've heard it is proper to refer to it as *steeltown* or *stinktown*.

Its interesting you would say that. Consider the individuals calling it stinktown. Of course its called steeltown because we have two industrial factories. We are the heart and center of the proletariat in Southern Ontario. In fact, the only ones who would call it that would be the bourgeoisie, in Burlington, Oakville, or Toronto. Its a city struggle based on class.

I don't meet with people who call me racist though, as I am not one. I didn't have a clue I would get flamed for my personal thoughs, and it saddens me. We all have the rights to our opinions, and I am not forcing anyone to believe in what I do.

I wouldn't meet with you actually. I was kidding. You are getting flamed for your personal thoughts because they are racist. You're right we do have the right to our opinions, but that does not mean the content of that speech should also be a right. You have a right to speak your mind, as we, as a collective group have a right to form an opinion of your thoughts, and determine that you are a racist.

I am not an addict, but appreciate you going out of your way to be mean. I will continue to speak with you but please let's be civil?

It was an analogy. I am being very civil actually.

Invader Zim

5th December 2005, 02:05

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 07:58 PM

Could this get a warning point please? This is just flaming plain and simple.

True it was flaming, but in response to her nazi crap.

Apologies if I offended you, Annie, but I assumed you were immune to foulmouthed comments, seeing as you dish it out to immigrants so much.
Nazi? By compairing the beliefs of this individual to that of the Nazis is to trivialise the actions and beliefs of the Nazis.

I think you should reconsider your post, statements like that damage the campaign against real Nazis, who are a far more dangerous breed than that of an ignorant racist. While I certainly do not like racists, it is important to catagorise them as what they really are, suggesting that they are all Nazis is a very dangerous game to play.

CCCPneubauten

5th December 2005, 03:11

"Well the Natives could have if they could have maintained control of the land. Same as the Mexicans could be living in Texas right now if they had defeated Texas in the Texian Revolution."

Are you saying that just because some one is more violent they are better?

You make me sick.

Bannockburn

5th December 2005, 03:32

Well the Natives could have if they could have maintained control of the land

This clearly shows lack of any kind of real history. The natives of America actually was friendly to Columbus. In fact, its all documented how Columbus was impressed by their generosity. Columbus also remarked how good of slaves they would be and brought some back to the Spanish monarchy to show the goods of the new land.

The natives were victims of a genocide created by European lust for gold, and the emergence of Capitalism. In fact, because of European technology, the genocide was that much more brutal.

Again, I think this shows her capitalist thinking. Control of land presupposes that one owns it. No such concept ever emerged for the natives because one can not own the land, because one was part of that land. I hope this is being watched. This is another remark, yet more implicit of her capitalist support.

Forward Union

5th December 2005, 14:42

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 10:03 PM
the very notion of “christo-anarchist” is a contradiction
Bullshit I know loads of Christian Anarchists.

Christian Anarchism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism)

Jesus Radicals (http://www.jesusradicals.com/)

angus_mor

5th December 2005, 15:15

lol Anarchrist XD!

AnnieAngel

5th December 2005, 15:52

"Anarchist Biblical literalists also suggest there is complete compatibility between the Bible and anarchism. They claim that one of the reasons Jesus was so unpopular with the Sanhedrin is that he was viewed as a leader of an anarchist rebellion and a threat to the status quo."

From Additives Wiki link. SO THERE NAYSAYERS! :) Christian Anarchists are also called Christian Libertarians. Now I don't like Libertarianism myself, being as they hate the poor, but the anarchism part is kind of cool.

"They believe individuals seeking a path to freedom will only be guided by the grace of God if they show compassion to others and turn the other cheek when confronted with violence."

WOW! No wonder I'm so unpopular with this stance among Christians they must think I'm an anrachist! Seriously though it is a shame the violence in our society, I hate it. Especially when it's done in God's name.

Bannock, you're not listening to me and trolling, I'm putting you on ignore until you can act like an adult. And DUH, I already said I am a capitalist....I have a job you know! ;)

Forward Union

5th December 2005, 17:16

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 04:03 PM
From Additives Wiki link. SO THERE NAYSAYERS! :) Christian Anarchists are also called Christian Libertarians. Now I don't like Libertarianism myself, being as they hate the poor, but the anarchism part is kind of cool.

urr, I dosn't mean Libertarianism in the way your thinking.

Bannock, you're not listening to me and trolling, I'm putting you on ignore until you can act like an adult. And DUH, I already said I am a capitalist....I have a job you know! ;)

99% of people here have some kind of Job...

Invader Zim

6th December 2005, 00:08

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 10:53 PM

I love tool, don't know perfect circle.

How could you know one without the other? Any fan would know this. Also, I do not know any fan of tool who is also is a Christian, especially with eulogy.

Actually, I think that MJK has changed his opinion sinse the days of Opiate, Disgustipated and Judith.

Check out Lateralus.

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 05:58

"What is Christian libertarianism? Christian libertarianism is the view that mature individuals (professing Christians in the church, and all externally obedient men in the state) are permitted maximum freedom under God's law. " (from below site)

Men, men, men. Of course. Is this site a good site? Because it scares me and I prefer my princess dress and cats. And my gun to shoot anyone who comes around that I don't know, including Christian Libertarians trying to make me free. :)

http://www.natreformassn.org/statesman/96/clIdea.html

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 06:01

I know it's picky, but I feel opressed by the Man, is there any way I can be a Guerrillera instead of a Guerrillero?

<_<

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 06:05

Oh and by the way, I met a Christo-anarchist on my blog!

His name is Simon he said he is banned from here, but he seems like a very gentle soul, if a bit preachy.

Plus everytime I see his name it makes me sing in my head,

Well you know my name is Simon
And the things I draw come true
And the pictures take me take me over
Climb the ladder with you

I actually downloaded it from the net. Take that fascist imperialist scumbag music industry!!!

:ph34r:

rioters bloc

6th December 2005, 06:34

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 05:12 PM
I know it's picky, but I feel opressed by the Man, is there any way I can be a Guerrillera instead of a Guerrillero?

<_<
sure. go to "my controls" --> "edit profile info" --> "custom member title"

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 06:43

Thanks sista!

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 07:26

Another btw, after reading on this site and others, anarchism is winning over the other isms promoted on this site.

Bannockburn

6th December 2005, 13:31

So let me get this straight: The core of “Christian anarchism” is this,

Christian anarchism (also known as Christian libertarianism) is the belief that the only source of authority to which Christians are ultimately answerable to is God, embodied in the teachings of Jesus.

Anarchism traditionally is this:

Anarchism derives from the Greek αναρχία ("without archons (rulers)"). Thus anarchism, in its most general meaning, is the belief that rulers are unnecessary and should be abolished

Now, I generally don't trust everything I read from wikipedia simply because anybody can edit it accordingly. However, it can be our canon to discuss this.

Anybody who ever had a thought in there head would can see this as a contradiction.

Anarchism traditionally understood is the philosophical position as above. No rulers.
God, in any embodiment you would like to put it, metaphysical, in Jesus, or in the bible is a source of authority. God, certainly is considered to be a ruler. In any shape or form you would like to put it. Can you somehow explain this to me how anarchism as a position with no rulers, and generally no external authority to impose on your personal sovereignty, and a “higher power” of a God ruler that gives laws, and authority?

Its a contradiction plan and simple.

Jesus radicals, Muslim radicals, Jewish radicals...yeah good for them. Still have an authority figure to tell them what to do. I fail to see your point.

Anarchist Biblical literalists also suggest

What is your point? There are biblical teachings that promote incest. The bible is so lucid you can apply it to anything. What's your point?

"They believe individuals seeking a path to freedom will only be guided by the grace of God if they show compassion to others and turn the other cheek when confronted with violence."

No. Generally anarchism is voluntary association. I fail to see how this can be when you have “god” “showing you the light” and “guided by the grace” of God. Besides. Generally, in any real case of the term following Marxism is a philosophy of immanence, not transcendence. Can you explain that?

Bannock, you're not listening to me and trolling, I'm putting you on ignore until you can act like an adult. And DUH, I already said I am a capitalist....I have a job you know!

How am not acting like an adult? I have not insulted you. I have not used language which are swears or harsh. I'm simply asking questions you can not, have not, will not, and refuse to answer.

Trolling. Hey, I don't call defending RevLeft from pseudo armchair criticism from your little friends trolling.

That's pathetic, and addictive free your just as pathetic going along with this nonsense.

Korol Aferist

6th December 2005, 14:48

I think you're on a site with bunch of lonely commies.

Bannockburn

6th December 2005, 15:06

It could be. That is even more pathetic. Yeah, “I'm a socialist-Communist-anarchist”, until a girl comes up, and then I revert to my capitalist tendencies that treat women as object for our own pleasure, and propagate the propaganda that we should be worried about sex, sexual relations, and concerned with sexual obsession than the liberation of such control.

I can't believe I am on a site where people can be banned, and warned for using racist, sexist remarks, but when a racist comes into this community its okay, because she's a female, and ignorant of “radical leftist thinking”. Yet, that is okay because she can hide behind a veil of ignorance and smiley icons.

I then have a mod who is whole heartedly agreeing with this racist that contradictory terms are okay. That its okay to be a racist provided that you are ignorant. Of course, “I'm here to learn” is acceptable, provided we don't question her beliefs. “I'm here to learn” is acceptable provided we don't ask her any questions. “I'm here to learn” is acceptable on the condition we don't confront her about her beliefs. “I'm here to learn” is acceptable even though I'm not willing to have what I've learned in the past questioned. “I'm here to learn” provided she doesn't have to answer our list of grievances.

Yet, she is right out on the open about this:

From her Blog:

Dear Annie,

Love you, love your blog. Glad you have the guts to say what most people secretly think but are afraid to say.

Obviously about the fact that she is a racist, but out in public she “acts nice to everyone” regardless of their race. Of course, she can't help what people say to her, but here is her reply...

I love you and you rock too! We're both pretty gutsy ladies, I think.
Its pretty gutsy to make racist claims. Its pretty gutsy to be a racist as its political correct not too. Its simple. She's a racist, but she acts like a “good Christian women” out in society. She actually thinks she, insofar as “gusty” is somehow promoting the truth, or standing up “for what is right” despite all the social pressures.

Moreover, by the simple fact she said “we're” pretty gutsy seems to imply favoring another racist statements, affirming her own. Two pees in a pod, I tell you.

Korol Aferist

6th December 2005, 15:23

It could be. That is even more pathetic. Yeah, “I'm a socialist-Communist-anarchist”, until a girl comes up, and then I revert to my capitalist tendencies that treat women as object for our own pleasure, and propagate the propaganda that we should be worried about sex, sexual relations, and concerned with sexual obsession than the liberation of such control.

Being a capitalist got nothing to do on how you treat the opposite sex.
It's mostly on how you were raised by your family.

I can't believe I am on a site where people can be banned, and warned for using racist, sexist remarks, but when a racist comes into this community its okay, because she's a female, and ignorant of “radical leftist thinking”. Yet, that is okay because she can hide behind a veil of ignorance and smiley icons.

Tell them brother. :marx:

I then have a mod who is whole heartedly agreeing with this racist that contradictory terms are okay. That its okay to be a racist provided that you are ignorant. Of course, “I'm here to learn” is acceptable, provided we don't question her beliefs. “I'm here to learn” is acceptable provided we don't ask her any questions. “I'm here to learn” is acceptable on the condition we don't confront her about her beliefs. “I'm here to learn” is acceptable even though I'm not willing to have what I've learned in the past questioned. “I'm here to learn” provided she doesn't have to answer our list of grievances.

Hey we all are here to learn.
Do you want to learn with me and share some pudding?
But wait ! You could question that ! Because this is opposing idelogies forum.
We question everything and we must ask why until we die.
In fact;I would like to debate because this one way we'll learn,while I'll debate,I,like Che,shall say,"until victory always."

Damn,I got to stop going on forums, I got to find another way to kill this boredom.

Wanted Man

6th December 2005, 15:43

Get rid of this fascist slime. A mod can flame the hell out of anyone who supports a country against imperialism, but when we react to fascists, the mods come in with their fingers raised to tell us we shouldn't vocally defend our oppressed comrades.

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 17:26

I am not a fascist, I am not a racist. I am not slime.

This is not the place to discuss my beliefs. This is not the place to post my blog comments. Trouble and I have been friends for years, you have no idea what she was referring to.

Please go to Trouble's blog if you are looking for a *gutsy* fight with a woman, you'll get it from her, but not from me. :)

Bannock ( :wub: ) has been stalking me demanding I answer his "questions" only thing he never asks any, just tells me I am a parrot and nice things.

But anyway, on to topical things.

I do have a question I would like to ask about the book 1984. I have read it and didn't like the society portrayed one bit. I have heard Bush called Orwellian and stuff but I don't understand because in the book, socialism is what leads to the totalitarian government, and Bush is not a socialist at all.

So how do the two get compared?

Free Palestine

6th December 2005, 17:58

You're a gas bag. You advocate draconian state-sponsored racial discrimination and thus believe certain people, based on their ethnic identity, do not deserve the same civil rights that you accord automatically to everyone else. That's the basis of your diatribe in your blog: pure, outright, unadulterated racism. What you said there reminds me very much of the racism and discrimination that Palestinians face every single day from Israel. You physically make me ill, and should be banned from this site.

On that note, I move that we ban Korol too. He has about the same brain size as Annie, which is about the size of your average gnat. Though, they may not quite be as bright as the more advanced gnats that were raised in a more parochial setting. :)

I'm the red under your bed

6th December 2005, 18:34

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 07:57 AM
I'll try to only come around when you're tired. ;)

I'm not really here to discuss religion but I'm always to willing to stand up for the Lord. :)
That's cool.Stand up for what you belive in.Even when its wrong!lol. :)

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 18:44

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 18:45

Originally posted by I'm the red under your bed+Dec 6 2005, 06:45 PM--> (I'm the red under your bed @ Dec 6 2005, 06:45 PM)
[email protected] 4 2005, 07:57 AM
I'll try to only come around when you're tired. ;)

I'm not really here to discuss religion but I'm always to willing to stand up for the Lord. :)
That's cool.Stand up for what you belive in.Even when its wrong!lol. :) [/b]
No one can prove their beliefs. That is why they are called beliefs, not knowledges. :) We just have faith.

Bannockburn

6th December 2005, 18:46

This is not the place to discuss my beliefs.

No. This is the place to discuss your beliefs. I think that has been affirmed a few times. Yet, when questioned, you will not, have not, and refuse to answer them. Why is that? Moreover, I have, throughout this thread asked many questions: namely clear up your inconsistencies.

just tells me I am a parrot and nice things.

Well a parrot certainly. All you have done, when anybody ask you a question is repeat the same five words. If that is not a parrot, I don't know what is.

I'm the red under your bed

6th December 2005, 19:03

Originally posted by AnnieAngel+Dec 6 2005, 06:56 PM--> (AnnieAngel @ Dec 6 2005, 06:56 PM)
Originally posted by I'm the red under your [email protected] 6 2005, 06:45 PM

[email protected] 4 2005, 07:57 AM
I'll try to only come around when you're tired. ;)

I'm not really here to discuss religion but I'm always to willing to stand up for the Lord. :)
That's cool.Stand up for what you belive in.Even when its wrong!lol. :)
No one can prove their beliefs. That is why they are called beliefs, not knowledges. :) We just have faith. [/b]
Your dead right.It was a half hearted joke.

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 19:08

Originally posted by I'm the red under your bed+Dec 6 2005, 07:14 PM--> (I'm the red under your bed @ Dec 6 2005, 07:14 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by I'm the red under your [email protected] 6 2005, 06:45 PM

[email protected] 4 2005, 07:57 AM
I'll try to only come around when you're tired. ;)

I'm not really here to discuss religion but I'm always to willing to stand up for the Lord. :)
That's cool.Stand up for what you belive in.Even when its wrong!lol. :)
No one can prove their beliefs. That is why they are called beliefs, not knowledges. :) We just have faith.
Your dead right.It was a half hearted joke. [/b]
I know, I laughed, half-heartedly. ;)

Lord Testicles

6th December 2005, 19:13

AnnieAngel i do find it amusing how you ignore the more serious and complex questions, but then i dont know whyi posted this you will probably ignore it like the others.

EDIT : Spelling

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 19:19

I don't find it amusing being hounded by anyone. I've answered all I will answer Bannock here, and he doesn't seem to be able to comprehend my replies to him. I have no further patience with him as it feels like a trolling to me. He is trying to pull what he wants from me and ignore what I actually say.

I'm not playing. :angry:

Lord Testicles

6th December 2005, 19:23

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 07:30 PM
I'm not playing.
This isnt a game so we dont expect you to play, This is a forum were people argue theyr ideas, so when some one is arguing with you its not trolling its an argument.

Bannockburn

6th December 2005, 19:25

No one can prove their beliefs. That is why they are called beliefs, not knowledges. We just have faith.

I can not believe I am hearing this garbage. So let me get this straight, because nobody can prove their beliefs, therefore we are entitled to think that they are true? Okay, I think we need to clear something up. This argument is called an argument from ignorance. It means since we can not prove a proposition, we therefore have the right to think its true.

Example: Since you can't prove ESP is true, therefore I can believe in it

No, It completely lacks any kind of evidence, and its absurd.

Listen here, beliefs are in accord to the evidence which is provided. If there is no evidence whatsoever, then they should be dropped as unjustified, and illusionary.

Since there is no evidence whatsoever of unicorns, we have no reason to think such things are true, and its only childhood fantasy.

We just have faith?? Faith?? When did I move back to the 3rd century??? Next thing I'll know if I'll hear that miracles are true, and I should build a new chimney for Santa Clause. Better yet, I should go follow the rainbow outside for their might be gold at the end. Hey I know why don't we just put up a big picture on RevLeft saying we believe in all kinds of fictional things, and none of us adhere to the principle of reason, evidence, justification, dialectics, logic.

Faith? What does this mean? I have faith in my friends that they will pick me up from work? Yeah, that faith is on previous experience, and on previous evidence. Lack of faith in a proposition which can not be backed up is absurd. That faith is so unfounded, that it doesn't even warrant any kind of justified cause to think its TRUE.

Look it here. You want to know where we get the idea of faith, obviously must come from some kind of previous experience. You have no experience an the act of faith, nor is it empirically justified. Therefore its completely illusionary and its complete sophistry.

Its a term that no meaning whatsoever. You want to know the difference between a child thinking there are monsters underneath his bed, and adults living in a fantasy world called faith and religion, spirituality – nothing, absolutely nothing. That is all make believe for adults.

As a result, she is not dead right. She is dead wrong, and you are dead wrong for thinking that her statements has any validities towards a true statement.

Free Palestine

6th December 2005, 19:28

Originally posted by AnnieAngel
Proof? Link?

Proof? Are you an idiot? Read the fucking thread you dolt! This has been shown to you over and over by other people in the thread, but it seems you already forgot. Go read Bannockburn's posts (notably, this one (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=43583&view=findpost&p=1291983867)) if you want to be shown your own vile and disgusting character. He didn't even touch on your little propositions of bar-coding, tattoing, and execution. Hitler would be proud.

Lord Testicles

6th December 2005, 19:31

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 03:17 PM
Its pretty gutsy to make racist claims. Its pretty gutsy to be a racist as its political correct not too. Its simple. She's a racist, but she acts like a “good Christian women” out in society. She actually thinks she, insofar as “gusty” is somehow promoting the truth, or standing up “for what is right” despite all the social pressures.
:lol: lol, reminds me of that woman in little britain that throws up on everyone who is different.

Bannockburn

6th December 2005, 19:36

This isnt a game so we dont expect you to play, This is a forum were people argue theyr ideas, so when some one is arguing with you its not trolling its an argument.

Thank you.

AnnieAngel i do find it amusing how you ignore the more serious and complex questions, but then i dont know whyi posted this you will probably ignore it like the others.

You have noticed that too?

I don't find it amusing being hounded by anyone. I've answered all I will answer Bannock here, and he doesn't seem to be able to comprehend my replies to him.

You've never answered me in any instance whatsoever. Sorry if I don't accept, “I'm here to learn”. Learning involves having your beliefs questioned, challenging yourself intellectually, challenging other people. Engaging in ideas, opinions, etc. You education as a tool to reinvent yourself, and others. Learning does not involve ignoring the learning process and to sit passively

How am I trolling you? I have gone on your blog to defend myself, and to defend the RevLeft community from you, and your friends accusation. We as a collective group have a right to defend ourselves, and I am exercising that right. That is not trolling.

sorry about the grammar. I am writing these posts so fast, because I can not understand for a moment what has been going on on this forum on the past two days.

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 19:44

Blah blah blah blah blah.

Does anyone have any insights as to why Bush is called Orwellian? Or is this a Christian belief forum? Cuz I'm already a member of quite a few of them, and believe me you are well represented in those forums, so you can feel happy knowing others are actually debating religious topics with me from your mindset.

ComradeOm

6th December 2005, 19:49

I guess this just goes to show that even some seriously disturbed Christian fascist (I think the word is justified in this case) can generate 9 pages of posts if her avatar is an attractive pair of legs. I'm really looking for another reason but not seeing it...

CI must be jealous at all the attention :P

Still, "I am so upset right now! I feel betrayed! I just found out that for years now Cat Stevens has been a Muslim! " will keep me chuckling for awhile. Now let's ban.

Bannockburn

6th December 2005, 19:50

Blah blah blah blah blah.

What is this? honestly here. Is it because she's female? I can not be the only person thinking this (not because she's female) but other members have been warned for less.

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 19:54

Am I in a religion forum? No. Am I here to tell you your beliefs are wrong? No.

Anyone on the Orwell?

Delirium

6th December 2005, 20:04

Bush is described as orwellian because he promotes policies that you could easily see in one of george orwell's books. He obviously has some very authoritarian tendencies which many could be described as orwellian. And how about the Heathy Forests iniative, we promote healthy forests by cutting them down? How about data mining, how about overzealous survaliance, how about the erosion of posse comitatus, how about the indefinate detention of people without trial or even charges, how about tourture.

Not all off these may be classicaly orwellian but they still follow the same authoritarian principals.

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 20:13

Originally posted by Datura [email protected] 6 2005, 08:15 PM
Bush is described as orwellian because he promotes policies that you could easily see in one of george orwell's books. He obviously has some very authoritarian tendencies which many could be described as orwellian. And how about the Heathy Forests iniative, we promote healthy forests by cutting them down? How about data mining, how about overzealous survaliance, how about the erosion of posse comitatus, how about the indefinate detention of people without trial or even charges, how about tourture.

Not all off these may be classicaly orwellian but they still follow the same authoritarian principals.
But in the book, doesn't it all start with the capitalist being thrown out and socialism taking over? IngSoc?

How does Bush fit into that? Is Orwellian just a term describing authoritarian rule no matter what type of government is behind it? Orwell seemed to hate communism and socialism and Bush is neither.

Delirium

6th December 2005, 20:21

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 08:24 PM
The term "Orwellian" usually refers to one or more of the following:

* Manipulation of language for political ends. Most significantly by introducing to words meanings in opposition to their denotative meanings.
* Invasion by the state of personal privacy, whether physically or by means of surveillance.
* The total control of daily life by the state, as in a "Big Brother" society.
* The disintegration of the family unit by the state.
* The replacement of religious faith with worship of the state in a semi-religious manner.
* Active encouragement by the state of "doublethink", whereby the population must learn to embrace inconsistent concepts without dissent.
* A dystopian or antiutopian future.
* The use of verbose and ambiguous language.

-Wikipedia

Exactly it is not neccesarily the type of government but the actions in which they take. Stalin could be described as orwellian just as could Hitler.

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 20:39

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense and I understand the Bush references now. He pretty much has all of that covered, except he doesn't want to replace the religious with the state, he wants to merge the two into the state doing the will of God.

Oh my God. He's a Christian Libertarian!

Korol Aferist

6th December 2005, 20:41

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 05:37 PM
I am not a fascist, I am not a racist. I am not slime.

This is not the place to discuss my beliefs. This is not the place to post my blog comments. Trouble and I have been friends for years, you have no idea what she was referring to.

Please go to Trouble's blog if you are looking for a *gutsy* fight with a woman, you'll get it from her, but not from me. :)

Bannock ( :wub: ) has been stalking me demanding I answer his "questions" only thing he never asks any, just tells me I am a parrot and nice things.

But anyway, on to topical things.

I do have a question I would like to ask about the book 1984. I have read it and didn't like the society portrayed one bit. I have heard Bush called Orwellian and stuff but I don't understand because in the book, socialism is what leads to the totalitarian government, and Bush is not a socialist at all.

So how do the two get compared?
Psst.
For some odd reason,I think this is a act.
Is this Capitalist Imperist as a cross-dresser ?

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 20:43

WOW, so now I'm a transvestite am I? Too much!

Free Palestine

6th December 2005, 20:45

From another thread:

Originally posted by NoXion
He didn't respond to my post either. You know what they call people who deliberately stir shit on internet forums? Trolls. And you know what happens to trolls? They get banned.

So why haven't you banned AnnieAngel yet, NoXion? She has done nothing but that this entire thread! I must say, it is not surprising to see that NoXion lacks any consistent belief structure whatsoever. Especially when he defends a racist Christian fascist over the very same act he threatened to ban Capitalist Imperial for commiting. He is, after all, a fucking hypocrite. :)

AnnieAngel

6th December 2005, 20:53

There is no rule saying I have to answer the questions of every poster on this board. Those I find rude I ignore. Those I find to be trolling I ignore.

Haven't you been online enough to know those basic rules? Etiquette is important online because no one wants to speak to people they don't like and who show them no respect. I don't anyway and there are no rules saying I have to! This is not the AnnieAngel debate board whre the rule is Annie must answer every question asked of her or she will be banned! Give me a break!

I am here to learn FROM ANARCHISTS ETC THEMSELVES not to debate them. Therefore this is NOT A DEBATE.

:blink:

Korol Aferist

6th December 2005, 20:56

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 6 2005, 06:09 PM
You're a gas bag. You advocate draconian state-sponsored racial discrimination and thus believe certain people, based on their ethnic identity, do not deserve the same civil rights that you accord automatically to everyone else. That's the basis of your diatribe in your blog: pure, outright, unadulterated racism. What you said there reminds me very much of the racism and discrimination that Palestinians face every single day from Israel. You physically make me ill, and should be banned from this site.

On that note, I move that we ban Korol too. He has about the same brain size as Annie, which is about the size of your average gnat. Though, they may not quite be as bright as the more advanced gnats that were raised in a more parochial setting. :)
Oh shut the hell up.
Do you have anything to do ?
Are you even Palestinian ?
You should be ban for being an anti-semnite.
The reasons I support Isreal because it more
left than any 22 arab countries.It's the only
country in the mid-east where an Arab have
all basic freedoms and the right to vote.
Plus,I'm learning... Sometimes,it's good to
think for yourself.

Fuck your nationalism!
Fuck bastardized Palestine!
Fuck anything else that goes against my believes.

Go and put the loose noose around your neck.You racist.

http://www.orthodoxanarchist.com/xnationalism01.jpg

Phalanx

7th December 2005, 00:48

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 6 2005, 08:56 PM
Especially when he defends a racist Christian fascist over the very same act he threatened to ban Capitalist Imperial for commiting. He is, after all, a fucking hypocrite. :)
You should also be banned, then. In my opinion, you should have been banned for such racist comments, which is why I supported banning Capitalist Imperial. He was a moron, but you seem to be more intelligent. I thought I could expect tolerance from you, but you stand firm in the belief of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, which I believe deserves instant banning.

Ownthink

7th December 2005, 01:41

Originally posted by Korol Aferist+Dec 6 2005, 04:07 PM--> (Korol Aferist @ Dec 6 2005, 04:07 PM)
Free [email protected] 6 2005, 06:09 PM
You're a gas bag. You advocate draconian state-sponsored racial discrimination and thus believe certain people, based on their ethnic identity, do not deserve the same civil rights that you accord automatically to everyone else. That's the basis of your diatribe in your blog: pure, outright, unadulterated racism. What you said there reminds me very much of the racism and discrimination that Palestinians face every single day from Israel. You physically make me ill, and should be banned from this site.

On that note, I move that we ban Korol too. He has about the same brain size as Annie, which is about the size of your average gnat. Though, they may not quite be as bright as the more advanced gnats that were raised in a more parochial setting. :)
Oh shut the hell up.
Do you have anything to do ?
Are you even Palestinian ?
You should be ban for being an anti-semnite.
The reasons I support Isreal because it more
left than any 22 arab countries.It's the only
country in the mid-east where an Arab have
all basic freedoms and the right to vote.
Plus,I'm learning... Sometimes,it's good to
think for yourself.

Fuck your nationalism!
Fuck bastardized Palestine!
Fuck anything else that goes against my believes.

Go and put the loose noose around your neck.You racist.

http://www.orthodoxanarchist.com/xnationalism01.jpg [/b]
Yes, he is Palestinian, you fucking douche, and to scream at him in such a manner suggesting he is not is an insult to his dignity and that of his people who have struggled for so long against tyranny and oppression. Fuck you.

And fuck YOUR Nationalism! Palestinian nationalism is PRIDE in the fact that they have lasted so long in their struggle.

You should also be banned, then. In my opinion, you should have been banned for such racist comments, which is why I supported banning Capitalist Imperial. He was a moron, but you seem to be more intelligent. I thought I could expect tolerance from you, but you stand firm in the belief of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, which I believe deserves instant banning.
He believes in no such thing. All he was trying to say was the worldwide influence of the Jewish ruling class, he just picked a shitty choice of words. It would be akin to me saying "the worldwide rich white dude hierarchy" and then being restricted for Racism. Yes, the ruling class is a bunch of rich white dudes. That is a fact. Just as he was stating that the majority of the ruling elite at that time during the debate he was having were Jewish. There were many Jewish upper class people who had some influence at the time, does that mean they were a "worldwide hierarchy" of Jews? Not at all, simply that they happened to be Jewish and ruling elite.

It was a poor choice of words on his part, but that happens to all of us once in a while. I suggest you read over his statement about the "hierarchy" and then read what I just said, it shall make perfect sense.

Besides, he copied and pasted it from another website. It wasn't even his words. Some of the admins are just too jumpy around here.

angus_mor

7th December 2005, 06:27

Annie,

Once again your ignorance exudes you, the society that was described in 1984 was not at all of revolutionary pertinence. It was a bourgeois socialist society, democratically limiting power in the name of the middle class, note the proletarian ghettos which Orwell depicted. In it, the bourgeoisie has created a highly bureaucratic structure of upper and lower sections of "the Party", creating class struggle in its very gears, only reinstituted terminology has prevented class consciousness from spreading. The logical outcome of this ficticious, though highly possible society is an ongoing struggle of bourgeoisie, after bourgeoisie overthrowing one another indefinitely. Though it is aparent that the Party is doing its best to convert these economic terms into political definition, in order to secure its bourgeois position, and enslave an ignorant proletariat.

Similarly, George Walker: Texan Bousheois and the Grand Order of Pundits (GOP) has set up a huge propaganda machine, a political structure which hands them power, and a growing ignorance of the people (that's you, Annie). The Democratic Party (lower party) stood by and watched as the Republican Party (upper party) claimed power in the executive branch of the US government in the Federal Election of 2000. Furthermore, they continued to procrastinate in the 2004 elections when political control of Congress was handed to the Republican Party.

Since the silent, swift political coup in 2000, Bush and his administration have imposed a state of fear upon the nation, which they used to their advantage to secure political power, capital, and further limit the class consciousness of the proletariat. They, and the American dreamers before them, have created a myth of the classless society in which there is equal opurtunity for every man, woman, and child. This radical conservatism is moving America towards a society not unlike the one described in 1984, their policies and actions in power attest to this ominous threat.

So Annie, clear enough yet?

AnnieAngel

7th December 2005, 07:00

Are you sure you mean my ignorance exudes me? Don't you mean I exude ignorance? I admit to the second one, on this topic. That's why I asked questions of people who are not.

I was asking about the origins of the society in 1984 which was socialist revolution. I couldn't understand how that related to Bush. It has been explained to me by Datura that the comparasin had nothing to do with the root of the original revolution but rather with the authoritarian government that grew from it and which may grow from any government.

It was at that point I realized that Bush is a Christian Libertarian.

So yes, it's clear. :)

Dark Exodus

7th December 2005, 21:35

People really need to calm the fuck down. Flaming is not productive in debate.
Whether this 'AnnieAngel' really wants to learn about leftism is besides the point, as is the amount of times we can incorrectly use the word 'fascist'.

If you have something off-topic to say then PM it or make a new thread. If you have something unproductive to say then don't.

The fact that a 10 page long flamewar was caused by something that could have been solved by a few links or a civilised debate is rather pathetic, I feel.

Delirium

7th December 2005, 22:00

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 07:11 AM

It was at that point I realized that Bush is a Christian Libertarian.

What do you mean by christian libertarian?

Not to be antagonistic but there is nothing "christian" or "libertarian" about the society portrayed in 1984. Unless it means somthing totally different.

Zingu

7th December 2005, 23:25

A good example of Socialism (In the non-Leninist sense) would be the Paris Commune of 1871 or the Spanish Revolution in 1936.

Unlike the Soviet Union and China (Which I consider state-capitalist), both witnessed a real, organized working class smash the state, seize power, and form the 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat" as Marx coined it.

It was a "dictatorship" how people usually use the term, but its when Proletarian democracy triumphs, the working class socialize the means of production, and everyone will govern in turn. The state, composed completely of the working class, really isn't a "government", since government is a tool of class rule over others within a society like today.
Rather, the state would be a Soviet style government. Now, don't get the word 'Soviet' confused with the Soviet Union. The word 'Soviet' means "Workers' Council", it would be the center of the Commune. Democratically elected delegates from the working class would assume admistrative posistions in the Soviet, which would help coordinate economic plans and projects, for example, comissioning the building local new storehouses to hold new amounts of productive output.

Yeah I'm a Left Communist. :P

"What is Christian libertarianism? Christian libertarianism is the view that mature individuals (professing Christians in the church, and all externally obedient men in the state) are permitted maximum freedom under God's law. "

Can you not see the contradiction and folly in these words?

angus_mor

8th December 2005, 03:53

Annie, George W. Bush is in no way a Christian Libertarian, he's barely Christian, He's a flunkie prep student who never did better D's in school. After failing as a student, a business man, and even as a decent human being with a drug addiction and an alcohol problem (if you get arrested for drunk driving in the US in the 70's, trust me, you have a PROBLEM), Karl Rove put that noble looking idiot in a bomber jacket and voila, you have the most honest American representative in the world. He is perfectly American; he's an idiot, a cheat, a liar, and son of a Bush. He's the original Billy Madison, only he payed his way through school. There is capitalist injustice, favoritism, and elitism, as well as the greatest antagonist of class struggle; the embodiment of American Imperialism. The Christian thing is a charade, he only did it to win votes, why? Because the polls show that crazy christians like yourself vote in the highest numbers, put 'em at the top of your list, and guess what? Welcome to the Oval Office. So just remember this Annie, your sucking his dick and paying him to do it too.

rioters bloc

8th December 2005, 04:10

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 05:54 PM
Thanks sista!
hahaha 'sista'? :P

didn't you want me shot or something?

since i'm an immigrant and all?!

AnnieAngel

8th December 2005, 05:38

What I mean by Christian Libertarian is I can totally see Bush creating a theocracy where he is as the messenger of God the Supreme Leader, he is Big Brother and in the future our great grandkids will be using words like doubleplusmisunderestimate. I can see him using Christianity to further his goals, I mean he already is. I am not a big Bush fan, btw. Not all Republicans like Bush.

And I don't think he's a Christian at all. But it seems there are quite a few professing Christians out there who seem to love the idea of killing people in their own country who never hurt them in any way is ok.

These folk would be more than happy to have their own little society where no one but they are allowed in. I mean my boyfriend is a Christian and he went to some totally fascist site where he was told if he did not change his profile to state he WAS NOT a Christian they would do it for him. They also told him he couldn't post in the Christian area of their board. Why? He did not fit their definition of Christian.

That's crazy. I can see those people following Bush into a new society of God. I even heard that there is a movement to get all the Christians to move to North Carolina so they can use their votes to make the state a Christian state.

So it's not as far fetched as it sounds, actually I think it has the best bet of working over any of the other anarchistic movements I've seen represented on this board because most military are Christian and most Christians would love to live in a Christian society, and those who don't sure wouldn't say they don't.

Rioters Bloc, I won't shoot you if you promise not to pee on the green onions. ;)