I need help...

[Subway To Venus]

Ok..., this is my situation...
My father is really pro american, and agrees with the US policies around the world.
He thinks it is right for the US to play to role of the "world's police".

I want to know if you guys can give me some facts that can help me change his mind...

thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

Vietnam?


Nice name by the way.

[TXsocialist]

First off:

What's your nationality?

I'm an American Myself, and adamantly oppose the current, imperialistic, US foreign policy.

[CheViveToday]

You can find countless facts throughout these forums. However, don't expect to change your fathers mind. Worry more about teaching yourself the truth, and try to influence your friends, and other young people. Your dad probably has his mind made up forever.

[Xvall]

A worthless effort. Your father will simply tell you that you are just an idealistic child who doesn't know any better. He will tell you that he is older and more experienced than you, and that therefore he 'knows more' than you do. Then, he will rail on for an hour about how 'ungrateful' you are for not appreciating the 'wonderful freedoms' that this country has 'given you'. Don't believe me? Talk to him about it; tell me what he says.

[pay feo 2003]

mmm, subway sounds good, like a sandwich. :)

anyway, if your still a teenager, i will hold back on my "respect your father" speech and ask that you consider the advise by chevive.

remember, hate will only blind your vision yet by learning enough truths (isnt easy, so just ask for wisdom should you meditate) we can learn how to hate in a way that is motivating and constructive and of course, destructive of the injustices.

america may have gotten trick. and like the song goes...

"EVERYBODY PLAYS THE FOOL, THERE IS NO EXCEPTION TO THE RULE!" - (artist unknown) (your pops might know the name :wink: )

[pay feo 2003]

Quote: from Funky Monk on 10:45 pm on Feb. 13, 2003
Vietnam?




funky monk, if they lied about Vietnam, what else has the people been lied to about?

why do the vets get no proper props? maybe because nobody likes to admit the real truth...:angry:

[Tasha]

Chevive today is right. It is probably best to keep your thoughts to yourself around him to avoid fights.

However if he has his mind set you can still really beat him to it with facts. Of course some people are really hard headed and will stick to their beliefs forever.

Ask why does he think there is so much opposition towards this imperialistic war and why is there even so much in the united states. I believe some 87% of europeans oppose this war.

The united states is going to defy the U.N. simply for its own interests. They threaten to not give germany and france oil booty after war. Yet they have no proof of chemical and biological weapons. Even if they did there is absolutely no reason to attack.

Why should 400 cruise missles be fired on one of the oldest (if not the oldest) city in the world with many historical sites. Iraq is babylon I do believe. Millions if not more will be killed by missle fire, lack of water, lack of food. The usa will destroy all agriculture all water systems etc...

Ask why saddam and not pakistan, israel, north korea and other areas that are a supposed "threat".

Does it seem funny that Iraq is the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world. That the United states wants to seize the oil plants and setup a food for oil program which had already been tried in iraq (Iraq did not even get basic necessities for their oil).

A very good example I like to use is the Iran-iraq war. I strongly suggest you read about it. In it 1 million people died including many iranian civilians killed by chemical and biological agents supplied to iraq by the usa.


The united states supplied iraq with most of its former chemical and biological agents. This example clearly shows that the United states will kill a million people simply to protect their interests.

There is no plausible reason to attack iraq. Do you honestly think that the united states government in this time of the economy is going to "liberate" a country. Why should the united states have bases all over the middle east when we didnt want britain having bases in our land.

[Subway To Venus]

Quote: from TXsocialist on 10:46 pm on Feb. 13, 2003
First off:

What's your nationality?

I'm an American Myself, and adamantly oppose the current, imperialistic, US foreign policy.


I'm argentinean but currently living in the US

of course my father says that this country gave him a lot more in 3 years than what Argentina gave him in 36....

Also, he has been to Cuba (to do a job there), and saw how people live there, and brought pics and videos... and it is pitiful.

He knows some cuban people that are against Castro's system and these people told him how is it like to live under his dictatorship. How they dont get enough food, and how corruption in everywhere.
When he was in Cuba, there were some elections held for... deputy I think... and there was only one candidate... people could only vote for one person, wich of course belonged to Fidel's party... it's ironic..

[Subway To Venus]

Ok, that Cuba stuff was kinda off topic, but it is one of the reasons my father has a bad view for socialism

[Tasha]

subway to venus how old are you? I suggest you simply concentrate on your school and read books. Politics will get you into trouble. It will just get you frustrated and there is really nothing we can do as of now but discuss it. But someday there will come enough opposition.

(Edited by Tasha at 11:19 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)

[Subway To Venus]

I'm 16... and yes, that's what I do... read and draw conclusions...

[pay feo 2003]

Tasha, how dependent is the world on oil? isnt there shortages predicted for the near future? im not studied in oil, hmm i may reconsider here shortly since i hear so much about the shite.

one thing i do know is that when desert storm was fought, the u.s. disabled iraqi air forces within 10 minutes or so. im confused as to how all the oil got spilled unto the ocean. if oil means anything to the people why would they attack the oil instead of preserving it? if war is so pro-capitalist in nature, the oil would not have been wasted the way it was.

nice post.

(Edited by pay feo 2003 at 11:29 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)

[Tasha]

I do believe that I read something recently (from this board) on the United states in a oil shortage that hasnt been this bad in 27 years. Of course I'm sure we have reserves. But Iraq possesses like I said the second largest proven oil reserves currently estimated at about 112.5 billion barrels. Iraq's oil is also of very high quality and is very unexpensive to produce (unlike alaska which many people point to and say we dont need the middle east, well alaska is extremely expensive to produce oil due to having to pump it out of the ground middle eastern oil is pressurized and comes out on its own. Us and uk companies held a share in the oil i believe of 3/4s of the countries oil production it was stopped by the nationalization of iraq petroleum company in around 1970s. Seems like iraq has tensions with the us and uk during these times to regain control of their own resources. And no I dont foresee oil dropping as soon as they expect as much of the world oil has yet to be found.

The entire us economy circulates around oil, what would happen if oil went to 5$ a gallon? The economy would collapse people would say I can't goto the store now. Thus sales decrease. Airplanes, cars, boats many things we use oil. If the people cannot get transportation to merchandise they wont be able to buy it sales will go down as a result and the value of the dollar cannot solve this problem.

(Edited by Tasha at 11:36 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)


(Edited by Tasha at 11:47 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)

[ComradeJunichi]

Instead of already making up your mind on US Foreign Policy of the past and present, maybe you should be more openminded. If you don't know a way to challenge your fathers beliefs then you shouldn't be opposing them already. I suggest you research on US foreign policy, objectively, and build your own opinion.

[pay feo 2003]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 12:07 am on Feb. 14, 2003
Instead of already making up your mind on US Foreign Policy of the past and present, maybe you should be more openminded. If you don't know a way to challenge your fathers beliefs then you shouldn't be opposing them already. I suggest you research on US foreign policy, objectively, and build your own opinion.

Why? is the U.S. the only one with a foreign policy?

[pay feo 2003]

Quote: from Tasha on 11:33 pm on Feb. 13, 2003
And no I dont foresee oil dropping as soon as they expect as much of the world oil has yet to be found.

The entire us economy circulates around oil, what would happen if oil went to 5$ a gallon? The economy would collapse people would say I can't goto the store now. Thus sales decrease. Airplanes, cars, boats many things we use oil. If the people cannot get transportation to merchandise they wont be able to buy it sales will go down as a result and the value of the dollar cannot solve this problem.



(Edited by Tasha at 11:36 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)

thanks tasha, very well put. and while im reading my mind starts spinning and its getting close to disco time again.

forgive me, i get way too excited over the small stuff. anyway, hmm, i must dig up the information that i encountered several months back which stated that there is indeed an oil shortage.

one thing i was thinking is (lies,lies,lies) so it would be wise to know what was really going on in the seventies...hmm. not vietnam? right? ah, okay now youve done it. lol. im kidding.

thanks for the clarity in thinking, it drives me crazy!


(Edited by Tasha at 11:47 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)


(Edited by pay feo 2003 at 12:27 am on Feb. 14, 2003)

[ComradeJunichi]

Quote: from pay feo 2003 on 12:19 am on Feb. 14, 2003

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 12:07 am on Feb. 14, 2003
Instead of already making up your mind on US Foreign Policy of the past and present, maybe you should be more openminded. If you don't know a way to challenge your fathers beliefs then you shouldn't be opposing them already. I suggest you research on US foreign policy, objectively, and build your own opinion.

Why? is the U.S. the only one with a foreign policy?


Read the original post.

[pay feo 2003]

yes, yet if they are anything like the law, what good will it do in helping subway to venus understand?

in my opinion, it will not.

[ComradeJunichi]

Quote: from pay feo 2003 on 12:36 am on Feb. 14, 2003
yes, yet if they are anything like the law, what good will it do in helping subway to venus understand?

in my opinion, it will not.

What the hell are you talking about?

[canikickit]

He knows some cuban people that are against Castro's system and these people told him how is it like to live under his dictatorship. How they dont get enough food, and how corruption in everywhere.
When he was in Cuba, there were some elections held for... deputy I think... and there was only one candidate... people could only vote for one person, wich of course belonged to Fidel's party... it's ironic..


From what I have been led to believe, Cuba's health is the best in the region. It has the highest life expectancy and the lowest infant mortality rate and so on. It Is shit compared to the US, but it is better than other South American countries. The US is shit compared to some places.


I do believe that I read something recently (from this board) on the United states in a oil shortage that hasnt been this bad in 27 years. Of course I'm sure we have reserves.

No. You do not have reserves. By 2025 72% of US oil will be imported.

[Tasha]

ok this is off topic but sweden and japan are the two highest white male life expectancy and other categories i do believe at age 79.

[ComradeJunichi]

What? Top highest white male life expectancies?

[pay feo 2003]

Quote: from ComradeJunichi on 12:40 am on Feb. 14, 2003
[quote]

What the hell are you talking about?



its simple. your suggestion to subway is this, no?

learn about u.s. foreign policy, this should help you understand.

i disagree. in your heart do you believe this to be true, (helpful) logical maybe, yet take it from a woman (hehe, im in love with feo) it will not help the young person.

i am merely disagreeing with your suggestion.

what in the hell did you not understand? :)


----------------------------------------------
"true communism is an ending and a begining for as men we...eventually will share the same fate." - elisabeta

[ComradeJunichi]

yes, yet if they are anything like the law, what good will it do in helping subway to venus understand?

in my opinion, it will not.

His question was about US foreign policy, so I told him to go learn about US foreign policy himself.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Venus you're from Argintine, it's your dad with his nationalistic feelings who should be more mad at the US than you. Ask him about the Argentine dictators powerd by the CIA.

[Uhuru na Umoja]

You guys are endlessly discussing oil; however the Middle East is not the only source of oil. I read an article recently suggesting that within a few years Russia will have taken over from Saudi Arabia in oil production. Also countries such as Nigeria produce oil. OPEC is the weakest it's been in years from all I've read (which admitedly isn't that much... I'm more interested in politics and history than economics).

[Larissa]

Quote: from CCCP on 8:53 am on Feb. 14, 2003
Venus you're from Argintine, it's your dad with his nationalistic feelings who should be more mad at the US than you. Ask him about the Argentine dictators powerd by the CIA.
I bet her dad strongly supports them.

[Sinistra]

Well our world is fucked , doesn't matter how many times we try to change it , it will always be the same , there will always be a "police of the world" , and i would strongly rather to have th US as the POLICE , rather than any other countries ( though it is capitalist) , because it is far better than any other countries . on every one bad example you give me on the US i can give you ten on any other country that wants to be the POLICE .
It is like the movie the Gadfather . there will always be this "Casanostra" , no matter his influence , but there is a better Casanostra , and the are worse . And in this case the US is the better one .

[Doshka]

the problem is that the world is filled with people like Venus's dad...and i would be extremely proud if i had been working in CNN or any other such organization, their dreams of brainwash that theive worked so hard on are being fullfilled beautifully...its discusting. my father too is a capitalist fuck who loves america...he is better than most in this area but his head is like stone..i gave up teaching him the truth ages ago. we should forget about the past generation, their time is over and im sorry for any one here who gets offended but they did nothing to stop the U$ and their fucked up foriegn policies...are you counting on their help now? the importan thing is to train and teach the future...to inform the children the truth so they will not grow up to be a copy of the past...and most importantly we have to act together..NOW. im sick of teachers and parents alike telling my class and i how much they look to us for a better future...i refuse to grow uplike them, had they no dreams of their own? was all they did look to the future to change what they were too lazy and useless to do? a useless generation looked up to us to change...theirs looked up to them before us and so on, we should be the first to do, to put a voice in for what we stand for and what we are against...the children i talk to wont hear about my useless dreams that i never did...they will hear about what i did..what i actually accomplished