Discipline by physical means

[Noah]

Hey guys,

I go to high school, just thought I'd tell ya :P .

I was wondering what the members here thought about corporal (if that's the correst term?) punishment in school? In today's school and in a school in a communist society?

The problem with our school has to be discipline. We get ghetto (gangster) people who have attitude at the age of 12. If they walk into you, it's your fault and they'll get the whole neighbourhood on you? It's just stupid.

You get children at age 16 acting like 5 year olds, I am being hypocritical because sometimes even I can be a little immature.

Do you think this is because children/teenagers get away with things too easily that they have adopted these attitudes? Or do you think with our without the cane / or so on the situation would be the same?

I don't know about attitudes anywhere else but here in England, attitudes of many students in high school towards, politics, behavior, respect to teachers is very 'backwards'.

Noah

[diamond_rabbit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 11:40 AM


I was wondering what the members here thought about corporal (if that's the correst term?) punishment in school? In today's school and in a school in a communist society?

The problem with our school has to be discipline. We get ghetto (gangster) people who have attitude at the age of 12. If they walk into you, it's your fault and they'll get the whole neighbourhood on you? It's just stupid.


Do you think this is because children/teenagers get away with things too easily that they have adopted these attitudes? Or do you think with our without the cane / or so on the situation would be the same?

I am completely 100% against using corporal punishment.

Young people need to understand why their behaviour is problematic in terms of how it hurts others. In order for them to develop such understanding, and to actually care about how they are hurting others, they need to be heard, understood and cared for themselves. Punishment does none of this. When you hit or use other methods of punishment, you are saying to the child "don't do this because if you do you will be hit" not "consider why you might not do this again because (fill in the blank with a reason that matters)". punishment teaches children that force and power over others is a way to resolve conflict and to get what you want. punishment also hurts and disempowers children, and when they are caught up in their own hurt and pain, they may not be in as good a position to feel empathy towards others. it makes no sense to punish children to teach them values of respecting and caring for others. it makes a lot more sense to take the time to talk to them as fellow human beings, listen to what they have to say, what their motivations are behind their actions, to help them think about the repercussions of their behaviours, acknowledge their relatively powerless position in the world as children, use your adult privilege to protect them, and care for them. it makes sense to treat children the way you wish them to treat others.

in my mind, our ultimate goal should be to foster conditions where children can develop a conscience that helps them self-regulate behaviours based on the impact it will have on themselves, others and the world around them, and the desire to uphold principles of equality and justice.

[VonClausewitz]

Do you think this is because children/teenagers get away with things too easily that they have adopted these attitudes? Or do you think with our without the cane / or so on the situation would be the same?

I don't know about attitudes anywhere else but here in England, attitudes of many students in high school towards, politics, behavior, respect to teachers is very 'backwards'.

I've always placed the blame on the softly-softly approach of modern society (British), the red tape and the political correctness. If a child is knowingly being a pain in the arse, on purpose, then no ammout of;


take the time to talk to them as fellow human beings, listen to what they have to say, what their motivations are behind their actions, to help them think about the repercussions of their behaviours, acknowledge their relatively powerless position in the world as children, use your adult privilege to protect them, and care for them. it makes sense to treat children the way you wish them to treat others.

Will stop them being a pain in the arse. Personal experience - My younger brother, aged 15, threatened his English teacher with death, and threw something large and solid at her. Now, the school for various reasons wouldn't expell him, but just put him in a room with some behavioural consellor.

Result ? He took a swing at the patronising counsellor. He was then sent home, and proceeded to take out said problems on my mother. So I smacked him in the face. He was wonderfully behaved for a LONG time afterwards.

Some children, and indeed some adults need basically a good smack, to show them that (INSERT BAD BEHAVIOUR) = WRONG, not that
(INSERT BAD BEHAVIOUR) = YOU GET CUDDLED AND TOLD IT'S OK SON.

And plus, take into account the hideously vulnerable position this leaves teachers in ? A teacher tells one of these 'gangsta' types you quoted to shut up and behave, and then gets all the swear words said child can think of. Wouldn't much more be achieved with just standing the child up in a assembly, giving them a good whack ?

Honestly, you would never believe the wonders that public humiliation can do.

[fpeppett]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In a case like this yeah I probably would have lamped by brother in the face to, but to make it mormality and to take it from a stranger is wrong in my opinion.

Bad behaviour and ghetto behaviour is because of classism, classism is because of capitalism, you can see where im going here.....

[Raisa]

Im from the dirty south. In my elementary school they had this place called the red room where if you got in trouble a certain amount of times in one day, theyd take you in there and you'd get your ass whipped with a paddle.
People used to put paper plates in their pants and shit.

Corporal punishment is some bullshit, they always tryna whip somebody in the south. <_<

[Raisa]

And by the way, "ghetto behavior..."

If you walk into someone and dont say sorry when you know you did it, it is your damn fault. Dont disrespect&#33;

[Publius]

And by the way, "ghetto behavior..."

If you walk into someone and dont say sorry when you know you did it, it is your damn fault. Dont disrespect&#33;

People will run into you in purpose, simply to start shit.

Happens all the time.

[Raisa]

You know&#33;

Some people are assholes.

[C_Rasmussen]

Ha&#33; Thats a good one, physical discipline nowadays. I&#39;d like to see one of those idiot teachers TRY to hit a high school student. You&#39;d hear of an Aggravated assault case on the news or at least a serious battery incident. Kids these days don&#39;t put up with people&#39;s shit, especially adult&#39;s. Its just not a good idea and it benefits the teacher if they dont go about it violently.

[Bugalu Shrimp]

We need to re-introduce the cane immediatley&#33;

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by Bugalu [email protected] 8 2005, 11:34 AM
We need to re-introduce the cane immediatley&#33;
So we can use it to beat you to death.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Maybe we should be focusing more of our attention on why the kids are acting up in school instead of how we will deal with them when they do. If you can clean up neighborhoods and effectively eliminate poverty, educate kids about things that are relevant to them from an early age, acting up would not really be as much of an issue. "Ghetto" kids will run into you and blame it on you because they come from an environment where they constantly have to prove they&#39;re "hard" to get by, and the best way to do that is to start shit and end shit. When we can eliminate the negativity of this environment, corporal punishment will no longer be necessary.

And for the time being, no, I&#39;m not in support of corporal punishment. All that teaches kids is to behave well when there is authority around, and to act out tenfold at any other possible opportunity.

[Noah]

And by the way, "ghetto behavior..."

If you walk into someone and dont say sorry when you know you did it, it is your damn fault. Dont disrespect&#33;

What has that got to do with anything? As publius said, they&#39;ll walk into you, to start the fight, So try not to go off on a random tangent please?

Also I agree corporal punishment wouldn&#39;t work and if it did go through I would imagine most kids would retaliate and attack.

So what some are saying is that this kind of behavior is because of the government and poverty? I would agree there, the government in the UK always complain about young black males getting low grades, being involved in crime and so on but the government refuse to personalise curriculums or help families from poorer backgrounds to give them a better standard of living.

[Simotix]

Originally posted by diamond_rabbit+Dec 1 2005, 08:01 PM--> (diamond_rabbit &#064; Dec 1 2005, 08:01 PM)it makes a lot more sense to take the time to talk to them as fellow human beings[/b]
The problem is though is that many people are to studdern to listen. A lot of people are just hardcore mind set on what they believe. Kids are like this also, they often get caught up in what is going on and just dead-lock on something and refuse to give up; even if it is wrong they don&#39;t want it to make them seem like they were wrong when we all know they were.


Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 08:01 PM
it makes sense to treat children the way you wish them to treat others.
I agree, I don&#39;t think we should introduce our children to means of "Violence solves all problems". While it does is some cases and does not in others.


Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 08:31 PM
He was then sent home, and proceeded to take out said problems on my mother. So I smacked him in the face. He was wonderfully behaved for a LONG time afterwards.
How ever did he learn that what he did was wrong or did he learn that what he did will get him hit? If it stops acting like so because he was hit, it is good that he does not act like that, however, it is bad that he does not understand what he did was actually wrong.


Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 06:39 PM
ghetto behaviour is because of classism, classism is because of capitalism, you can see where im going here.....
Do you consider ghetto behavior as wearing Fubu/Rockawear and listening to Biggie or do you consider it a gun-toating drug selling behavior?


[email protected] 8 2005, 04:10 AM
Kids these days don&#39;t put up with people&#39;s shit, especially adult&#39;s.
Interesting story to go along with the topic at hand and comment.

At my school for lunch we have lunch aids (basically lunch security, make sure everything is going fine). Well a student and just joking around and tossed a small piece of pretzel at other student (his friend). The lunch aid came over and told him to pick him up. He said he would, just not right that second. The aid then picked up his hat and the student just lost it. He (as I quote) said "Get your filthy disgusting fucking hands off my brand new hat. I don&#39;t want your dirty hands on my hat." I was sitting at the table next to him and I was about to get up (even though did not know the kid) and ask the lunch aid to give back the hat or give a reason to why she took it, as she had no right to. Anyway, the went back and forth and eventually the "class clown" came by and asked what was going on. He then picked it up off the floor and ate the piece of pretzel. Just goes to show students don&#39;t take shit anymore.

[Comrade Red]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 07:29 PM
Hey guys,

I go to high school, just thought I&#39;d tell ya :P .

I was wondering what the members here thought about corporal (if that&#39;s the correst term?) punishment in school? In today&#39;s school and in a school in a communist society?

The problem with our school has to be discipline. We get ghetto (gangster) people who have attitude at the age of 12. If they walk into you, it&#39;s your fault and they&#39;ll get the whole neighbourhood on you? It&#39;s just stupid.

You get children at age 16 acting like 5 year olds, I am being hypocritical because sometimes even I can be a little immature.

Do you think this is because children/teenagers get away with things too easily that they have adopted these attitudes? Or do you think with our without the cane / or so on the situation would be the same?

I don&#39;t know about attitudes anywhere else but here in England, attitudes of many students in high school towards, politics, behavior, respect to teachers is very &#39;backwards&#39;.

Noah
If we were in a communist country/state, I think if we could almost have a "JCRM" or Junior Communist Reserve Militia(yes kinda like JROTC, but we also teach them politics and ideals) in which every kid will spend atleast 3 years in dureing grade school. Where they learn respect, discipline and get tough how to carry themselves and act..with a militriastic nature, it could be very very good. You don&#39;t need to beat them though.

What do you guys think?