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FleasTheLemur
30th November 2005, 13:40
Before I start, lemmie define theory and bold the part that is most relevant to this argument:

the•o•ry (th-r, thr)
n.

1. A systematically organized body of knowledge applicable in a relatively wide variety of circumstances, especially a system of assumptions, accepted principles, and rules of procedure devised to analyze, predict, or otherwise explain the nature or behavior of a specified set of phenomena.
2. Abstract reasoning; speculation

With that said, let me continue onto my harebrained theory.

------

By now, we're all used to the typical argument that cappies and their ilk proclaim "Communism/socialism/Marxism/anarchism will never work because people are naturally greedy. It is in our nature to be greedy." Quickly, those on the far left proclaim "Nu uh!" and list a bunch of obscure tribes or obscure tribal practices that can be shown either way.

Today, I will blow your mind by (kind of) agreeing with the capitalists. Greed is in fact, natural. Humans have a tendency to horde things. Animals may end up eating more that they should in order to save up for later. It is somewhat apart of us and maybe even be embedded in our genetic code.

Yes, I can hear all those profanities you're yelling at your monitor. Allow me to explain.

Greed at once time served as a natural tool for survival. Going back to our primitive days, I can imagine a small village out in Africa where a famine is taking place. One day, a young mother happens to find a few bushes full of berries. If the berries had been taken back to the village and divided equally, the tribe might have survived for awhile longer, but would again start to die out. Of course, if the mother instead decided to share it with her small family as opposed to the larger community, the mother and the small family would survive until the famine passed.

Nowadays, our world isn't so localized as to a few dozen miles around a small village. A famine in central Africa could easily be solved with food from another region of the Earth. The United States alone produces enough food to feed the world. What holds us back? You got it! Greed. The situations aren't so extreme more as it was, even as close as 100 years ago. We have all this technology, yet all this greed is holding us back.

When it comes to other things that are natural, we instantly limit or even squash them. There are a number of other things that already exist with our society, that is natural, the either make illegal or scorned by society. When we get so angry that we kill a man in cold blood, this is natural. When we get so horny, we rape another human being without consent or remorse, this is natural. In a rational society, however, these natural actions are illegal and if you commit them you are thrown in jail. Greed, however, continues to get rewarded... and with they desire. That's as asinine as giving a known, active pedophile more children.

With greed being so natural to some and so harmful most, why not do something about it?

I thank you all for reading my simplistic argument.

Amusing Scrotum
30th November 2005, 14:11
You may be interested in this thread - The so-called human obstacle to communism, Does Marxist theory ignore self interest (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=42245) - especially look out for Redstar's posts on the subject of Marxist self interest. They explain it pretty well.

:)

drain.you
30th November 2005, 14:21
I agree with you. Greed is natural however can be harnessed by society. After all, society shows us how to live, somethings are considered crimes in some places and not in others, somethings naturual in one place and foreign to another. Society controls how we act, if we had a communist society we would act communist.

FleasTheLemur
30th November 2005, 17:52
Originally posted by Armchair [email protected] 30 2005, 02:22 PM
You may be interested in this thread - The so-called human obstacle to communism, Does Marxist theory ignore self interest (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=42245) - especially look out for Redstar's posts on the subject of Marxist self interest. They explain it pretty well.

:)
I am interested in this thread, despite RS2K. :lol:

You can really "tell" when this "guy" is writing because he uses a "syntax" simular to this. :lol:

All joking aside though, he had some pretty good posts and he's a brilliant guy. I'm still critical of his post-revolutionary theory, though. It might work of all proles everywhere spontaniously rose up, but the chances of an 'Earth' revolution is low.

Ouroboros
30th November 2005, 18:26
Depends of what does it mean "natural." Say, "kind of behaviour that develops frequently and independently of the social learning." Yes, it is, just like murder, rape or war and enjoying drugs is natural. It is also natural to behave on altruistic, to sacrifice life for others etc.

ComradeRed
1st December 2005, 01:02
Well, it is an interesting theory. But it has one small little problem...

In order for it to be true it has to ignore neuroscience! Neuroscience tells us that there are essentially two roles in the brain: recognize/readjust patters, and primal instincts (e.g. fight-or-flight, and so on).

Greed is a pattern evident in every form of class society. And since the Chimp, which has a similiar gene pattern to the human's, has no "insatiably greedy bastards" in their "society", and that humans have even one counter example of this (even in tribes), proves that greed is not an "instinct".

It would be unscientific to argue that it is. Marxism was the first to argue this scientifically.

DisIllusion
1st December 2005, 02:56
I agree with that theory Fleas, if we all know that greed can lead us to do horrible things, why do we have a society built around it, and why is this sort of society the most popular in the world?

Clarksist
1st December 2005, 02:57
Even if Greed is human nature (which it isn't), what is human nature is survival.

Why people are greedy under capitalism, is because that's how you survive under capitalism. In an anarchist, communist, socialist setting working for the group ensures survival.

Ta-fucking-da.

DisIllusion
1st December 2005, 03:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 08:08 PM
Even if Greed is human nature (which it isn't), what is human nature is survival.

Why people are greedy under capitalism, is because that's how you survive under capitalism. In an anarchist, communist, socialist setting working for the group ensures survival.

Ta-fucking-da.
Thanks comrade, that made some stuff a lot clearer about capitalism.