Lenin's last letter to Stalin

[Punk Rocker]

This is from marxists.org

Top Secret
Personal
Copy to Comrades Kamenev and Zinoviev


Dear Comrade Stalin:

You have been so rude as to summon my wife to the telephone and use bad language. Although she had told you that she was prepared to forget this, the fact nevertheless became known through her to Zinoviev and Kamenev. I have no intention of forgetting so easily what has been done against me, and it goes without saying that what has been done against my wife I consider having been done against me as well. I ask you , therefore, to think it over whether you are prepared to withdraw what you have said and to make your apologies, or whether you prefer that relations between us should be broken off.[1]

Respectfully yours,

Lenin

March 5, 1923

My opinion on Stalin is 50/50, he wasn't very bad or very good. I'm not bashing Stalinism. Still this shit makes you think and it's kind of funny.

This brings up some questions.
What were they fighting about?
Who are Zinoviev and Kamenev?
How is Stalinism an extension of Leninism when the two of them didn't even get along?

[Hiero]

You mixing personal feuds with politics. You don't have like someone personal to support and follow them political. This letter means nothing to us.

[Poum_1936]

I dont agree with Hiero, this letter is important. Showed how rude Stalin was. I think this letter was designed to elicit an apology from Stalin to make a clear case of his rudeness. Part of his case to remove Stalin from the General Secretaryship.

Stalin is too rude and this defect, although quite tolerable in our midst and in dealing among us Communists, becomes intolerable in a Secretary-General. That is why I suggest that the comrades think about a way of removing Stalin from that post and appointing another man in his stead who in all other respects differs from Comrade Stalin in having only one advantage, namely, that of being more tolerant, more loyal, more polite and more considerate to the comrades, less capricious, etc. This circumstance may appear to be a negligible detail. But I think that from the standpoint of safeguards against a split and from the standpoint of what I wrote above about the relationship between Stalin and Trotsky it is not a [minor] detail, but it is a detail which can assume decisive importance.

Lenin

Taken down by L.F.
January 4, 1923

Lenin also wrote two more short articles about the Rabkrin, which was headed by Stalin from 1919-1922 designed to be a popular control over the bureaucracy.

How We Should Reorganize the Workers' and Peasants Inspection (http://marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1923/jan/23.htm)

Better Fewer, But Better (http://marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1923/mar/02.htm)

As for Kamenev and Zinoviev...

Leon Kamenev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamenev)

Grigory Vinoviev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionviev)

[ReD_ReBeL]

cant remember what Stalin said to his wife but he was argueing with her and swore at her violently, did stalin and lenin get on personally ? no clue mate never knew any of thm personally but i do know in Lenin's WILL he says not to let Stalin become leader of Russia becoz he was too power mad, but Stalin hid the WILL b4 any1 else could see it, apprently

[DisIllusion]

And we all know where that got Trotsky in that whole mess. :trotski:

[UltraLeftGerry]

Hiero Posted on Nov 30 2005, 09:58 AM
You mixing personal feuds with politics. You don't have like someone personal to support and follow them political. This letter means nothing to us.

This is true to an extent. In full blown bourgeois politics however personal feuds can result in rivalries. In times of crisis, rivals will come together to protect their entrenched interests. Lenin and Stalin were normal human beings, and even ardent Marxist-Leninists admit this despite still having somewhat of a religious attachment to certain figures. Though I view Stalin and Lenin (particularly Lenin) as progressive historical figures, they could have easily let their disagreements boil over to the political realm. Look at Lenin's last testament. His opposition to Stalin may have very well stemmed from this incident. To say Leninist politicians are above petty squables is pure idealism.

[BattleOfTheCowshed]

Originally posted by Punk [email protected] 30 2005, 05:48 AM
What were they fighting about?
Who are Zinoviev and Kamenev?
How is Stalinism an extension of Leninism when the two of them didn't even get along?
I think they were fighting (in this letter at least) over Stalin offending/insulting Lenin's wife on the phone.

Zinoviev and Kamenev were both prominent members of the Bolshevik party. Zinoviev was kind of Lenin's sidekick who sided with him during internal Bolshevik disputes. Kamenev was Zinoviev's close associate. Zinoviev would later become Stalin's ally and an anti-Trotskyist.

Well, I would say Stalinism is most definitely NOT an extension of Leninism. This letter doesn't really illustrate that because it's more of a personal rather than political issue but nonetheless Lenin did oppose Stalin in his later years and I think it is obvious to most people that Stalinism ideologically flies int he face of Leninism.

[Roses in the Hospital]

cant remember what Stalin said to his wife but he was argueing with her and swore at her violently, did stalin and lenin get on personally ?

I think they did at one point, I seem to remeber that after Lenin's stroke Stalin was originally the man who would help him commit suicide if his condition grew intolerable, but, Lenin soon changed his mind and asked someone else to do it (maybe Trotsky, but I'm not sure.) Towards the end though, relations were a little strained...

[Poum_1936]

Look at Lenin's last testament. His opposition to Stalin may have very well stemmed from this incident.

I wouldnt say this is the defining factor. There was also the handling of the Georgian affair too.


Zinoviev would later become Stalin's ally and an anti-Trotskyist.

Zinoviez and Kamenev both held interesting positions. They were allied with Stalin then when that triumverate started falling through both Kemenev and Zinoviev moved over to Trotskyists camp. Then in 1927 when all three got removed from the party, two would later go back groveling to Stalin. All 3 would later die. Oddly enough though, the first Moscow Trial was called the "Trotskyite-Zinovievite Terrorist Center."

[Comrade Jobbyman]

The context of this letter is interesting. Comrade Lenin was in dire health and close to death, Kremlin doctors told the Politburo that it would be benefical to Lenin not to let him hear about politics and other information not fit for a poor man. However Lenin's wife decided to not take heed from the Doctors and continue to update Lenin on the situation of the USSR. Stalin was furious at this and let her feel his wrath.

Trotskyites with their rabid opportunism spin this into some sort of political feud; where the dumb Lenin finally realizes the monster that is Stalin and tries to stop him, to restore true socialism and Marxism, i.e. Trotskyism.

Something out of a poor Hollywood movie is where these Trotskyites get their theories from.

[Wanted Man]

Trotskyites with their rabid opportunism spin this into some sort of political feud; where the dumb Lenin finally realizes the monster that is Stalin and tries to stop him, to restore true socialism and Marxism, i.e. Trotskyism.

Something out of a poor Hollywood movie is where these Trotskyites get their theories from.
Got it. If this hadn't been said, it would have been a matter of time for all the trots on here to use this as a reason that "Trotsky should have succeeded Lenin!!!", purely based on personal relationships. Of course, ignoring the fact that relations between Lenin and Trotsky were worse. I quote from comrade Papergut on Soviet-Empire:


I also want to mention the fact that in his letters, telegrams and articles Lenin insulted Trotsky 219 times, calling him "pustozvon" (whiner), "svin'ya" (swine), "negodyay" (scoundrel), "podlez iz podlezov" (scum of the scum), "iudushka" (Judas), "politicheskaya prostitutka" (political prostitute). As for Stalin, Lenin never insulted him personally.

[jackdaw1924]

This is all a lame excuse to discredit Stalin and his heroic deeds. Who gives a shit if he was rude to some whore?

Unlike Trotsky, Stalin was a realist in a sense that he KNEW the world wasn't going to come together to sing "row row your boat."

[Amusing Scrotum]

Who gives a shit if he was rude to some whore?

Do you think that Lenin's wife was a "whore" or that all women are "whores?"

I hope you realise that using words like "whore," to describe women. Flies in the face of everything the left is about.

[Wanted Man]

How was Lenin's wife a "whore"? I agree that Stalin arguing with Lenin's wife is not a political argument against him, but I see no reason to refer to Nadezhda Krupskaya as a "whore" - a word which in itself only serves to stigmatise those victims of capitalism known as prostitutes and to condemn the sexual behaviour of those women who are not actually prostitutes.

[Comrade Jobbyman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:37 PM
How was Lenin's wife a "whore"? I agree that Stalin arguing with Lenin's wife is not a political argument against him, but I see no reason to refer to Nadezhda Krupskaya as a "whore" - a word which in itself only serves to stigmatise those victims of capitalism known as prostitutes and to condemn the sexual behaviour of those women who are not actually prostitutes.
^Your taken the word whore as the sexual connotation. It can also mean a person that partakes in acts for personal gain. As Krupskaya was a member of the Trotskyite fraction and started the insulting by using this argument as a political confrontation, I would agree that she was a whore in that sense.

[jackdaw1924]

correct :)

[Poum_1936]

Trotskyites with their rabid opportunism spin this into some sort of political feud; where the dumb Lenin finally realizes the monster that is Stalin and tries to stop him, to restore true socialism and Marxism, i.e. Trotskyism.

Wow... wow...

Im speechless.

What do I say to such idiocy?

And whore... apparantly "oppertunist" and "Kautskyite" arent enough? Or perhaps we go even further to degrade women with "whore" now? I like that...