What would happen to cops,miltary,security

[symtoms_of_humanity]

What would happen to all these jobs, because technically it is a working job, and without a military you are vunerable to attacks, I know the Trotskyst stance that you should have a global revolution to not have those, but that could take years, so say the U.S. has a revolution take place, and some of the former people in power flee to say the UK, so the UK tried to attack the new communist U.S.(of course it would not have that name still but just to clarify), hwo would the workers fight off this attack, would there be a standing army, or a workers milita, or a mix?

As for the cops I think they should be eliminated, but in what way, would you re-introduice them to real jobs what?

Also what about fast food joints, what would happen, seeing as how they are major corporations, but are still places of employment, would they still exist but not as one unified thing, all autonomous from each other?

[ScottishSocialist13]

They would be absorbed into other areas where they are needed.

[Ouroboros]

All of them, police, military, security will grow in communism, because in society that attempt to encrease solidarity it is very important to prevent crime, and generally, increase all kinds of safety.

[Lev]

No no no no no!

The state in communism "withers away" and Lenin's definition of the State is armed bodies of men.

A workers militia would HAVE to be in place to ensure a succesful revolution.

The case of the Russian revolution shows how the capitalist state can be "smashed", trotsky went and organised a meeting within the Peter and Paul fortress and won them to the revolution. Abstractly its hard to imagine going to a barracks in a big town or city and winning the soldiers to the side of revolutionaries but given the context of workers taking control at the point of production and organising their own defences (in democratic militias based around workplace units) and soldiers rebelling at the front and also setting up their own soviets it is easily achievable.

By and large the army would tend to collapse internally and the police would simply be unable or unwilling to put down a rising by an organised and armed proletariat.

Afterwards though. The workers state, the accountable and revocable armed bodies of men would only exist during the process of international revolution, a powerful combination of a small number of internal enemies "former regime elements" as Bush mite say and international backings means that the temporary existence of workers militia is absolutely nescessary but the very nature of workers militia's destroys the whole concept of having specific trades in "law and order" and "national defence".

As a workers militia is organised democratically, around workplaces and particular trades and something which is collective and linked organically to the a council democracy structure the question of "policing" society collectively becomes an option.

The police and the armed forces are unproductive, uncreative jobs, the only social role they play is maintaining existing class relations, when those relations are overcome and society is rund for need there is no need for a apparatus of any kind. This isn't something that can happen overnight tho, it has to happen as the logical progression of social revolution and the extension of equality.

The workers must be armed and organised to first achieve power, then defend that position and then as the organs of the workers state are WORKERS militia, as there become less enemies to defend themselves from, they can simply fade away as people can exclusively focus on democratically coordinated production instead of democratically coordinated production AND a democratically organised armed defence of that democratic system which logically would become irrelevant.

hope thats a usefull contribution

[symtoms_of_humanity]

But how would these Militas make choices, I mean you don't have time to take votes in battle, someone will assume command, becuase when fighting, order is very important, and knowing what you're doing is very important

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 10:20 PM
But how would these Militas make choices, I mean you don't have time to take votes in battle, someone will assume command, becuase when fighting, order is very important, and knowing what you're doing is very important
democratically elected recallable leaders

[Ouroboros]

The police and the armed forces are unproductive, uncreative jobs, the only social role they play is maintaining existing class relations, when those relations are overcome and society is rund for need there is no need for a apparatus of any kind.

:blink: they do many things that have nothing to do with class nature of the modern society. For example, they catch rapists and killers. It is *extremely* productive job, it produces human lifes - and we need professionals to do that efficiently.

Revolution is easier part, history shows it is harder to make something sensible of it.

[symtoms_of_humanity]

OK so an anology to the military thing could be like a football team, you pick your captins but if they aren't doing a good or right job, then you get rid of them and put someone else in.?


Cops also do alot of wrong things, like power abuse, if you're a cop you get off on almost anything you do, drunk driving, show your badge your out, speeding show badge out, they beat people everyday

[Simotix]

Originally posted by symtoms_of_humanity+Nov 30 2005, 03:27 AM--> (symtoms_of_humanity @ Nov 30 2005, 03:27 AM)Also what about fast food joints, what would happen, seeing as how they are major corporations, but are still places of employment, would they still exist but not as one unified thing, all autonomous from each other?[/b]
What about the small fast food chain companies, they are not bad.


[email protected] 1 2005, 09:37 PM
Cops also do alot of wrong things, like power abuse, if you're a cop you get off on almost anything you do, drunk driving, show your badge your out, speeding show badge out, they beat people everyday
And it is suppose to be equal rights. =\

The entire idea of a Gold Card is just unconstitutional in my opinion.

[Entrails Konfetti]

First off, there needs to be major reforms in law and order, there shouldn't be punishments for crime; criminals should recieve psychological treatment within hospitals.

I still think you need a police force, only to break fights, and they should watch offenders in the community until they are tried. Yes I said "watched" I think it would be wrong to throw them into a hospital without justification.

All police should be carefully monitored by the community, and revocable. Because I think it would be very hard to elect a large police force, they should go under harsher testing in the academy. I think the police force should be combined with the fire department, so the "thug" culture vanishes. It would be unecessary to combine them with an unstanding millitary, because the councils and citizens themselves can mobilize for it; its not a careerist imperialist millitary afterall.

As for jury; because all citizens will be taught at schools about the policies of the community and that nationd (or atleast should be taught), members from councils will have to be elected to serve, or you could just have who ever wishes to show up at the case serve as jurors--seeing as senior citizens with naught to do will probably take a part in it. There will be no judge--and courses of action for such crimes will be outlined by the entire nation (by refferendum for sure), the community will just decide what to do within "federal book of rules".

Thats an embryo of an idea, what do ya'll think?