Interesting Quote

[John Dory]

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

[Punk Rocker]

I love how at their trials, the Nazis didn't defend what they did, they bragged about how it was all a big act and how they got away with it. All the things they said at the trials, how to bullshit the people, exactly mirror what the US government is doing now.

[Creature]

And every other government has done in the past since the dawn of time.

[Xiao Banfa]

Governments need to bullshit people to some extent. There needs to be executive secrecy. This is strategic and it's also why there is not a single example of an Anarchist society which lasted more than a few years.

[Jesus Christ!]

I feel stupid for asking this but who said that. I've read it before and it's slipping my mind right now.

[enigma2517]

Governments need to bullshit people to some extent. There needs to be executive secrecy. This is strategic and it's also why there is not a single example of an Anarchist society which lasted more than a few years.

Are you a communist?

[Xiao Banfa]

Of course, why?

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Tino [email protected] 5 2005, 11:29 PM
there is not a single example of an Anarchist society which lasted more than a few years.
Hunter-gatherer societies were a primitive kind of anarchy, and humans spent the majority of our history in them.

[bourgeois adventurist]

enigma2517:
Tino Rangatiratanga: Governments need to bullshit people to some extent. There needs to be executive secrecy. This is strategic and it's also why there is not a single example of an Anarchist society which lasted more than a few years.
Are you a communist?


Tino Rangatiratanga: Of course, why?


At least Tino, unlike so many other pseudo(authoritarian)-commies here, understands the nature of government, and thus of all representation -- ie the alienation of individuals and communities power over their own affairs. Who can cite a government that has not lied and deceived (at best) its way into or to keep power?

He's wrong of course about real (ie anarchist- and left-) communism -- that is, the social movement of the exploited proletariat toward the abolition of all classes -- having anything to do with governments (however "revolutionary" they talk). The C20 repeatedly shows Communist parties, in government or on their way there, have always held back, undermined and eventually crushed genuine (self-managed) working-class struggles for emancipation (eg Soviets and Kronstadt, Shanghai Commune, Hungary councils '56, etc etc, ad nauseam, ad infinitum...), covering up the State's violence against the working-class with pretty-sounding but vaccuous rhetoric from middle-class intellectuals.

As Morpheus said, for over 99% of human history pre-civilized peoples lived in more or less anarchistic societies. But even pretending anarchy had never existed, why should we be limited to what has happened in the past? Do we have to have a ruling class because thats how its always been? Very conservative, quite reactionary, and not very imaginative.

(A better question, much more generally, might be why spend your time endlessly arguing with folk who want very different things)

[Craig]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 12:37 AM

Governments need to bullshit people to some extent. There needs to be executive secrecy. This is strategic and it's also why there is not a single example of an Anarchist society which lasted more than a few years.


That's true only if you take a very narrow view of anarchism.

Here is an example that has been used many times before: Our roadways in the United States are a fine example of social interaction that is largely cooperative and anarchistic. We stop at stop signs, not because we fear punishment, but because we collectively recognize the benefits of complying with such a system. The roadway would be chaos if people followed no rules, and there aren't enough cops and enough guns in the world to enforce rules if people chose not to comply.

Systems like this are evidence that a truly anarchist society is far more possible than many are willing to admit.

Also, it is logical fallacy to suggest that since something hasn't existed in the past, it can't exist in the future. Airplanes did not spontaneously appear; they are the product of hundreds or thousands of years of human learning and experimentation.

I also don't believe that anarchy is a simple form of societal organization, as others here have suggested (eg., comparing it to primitive hunter-gatherer cultures). It is an incredibly complex social formation built upon the successes and failures of it's predecessors.

Oh well, I guess I should quit now... This message has turned into a rambling mess...

[kingbee]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ!@Dec 6 2005, 12:00 AM
I feel stupid for asking this but who said that. I've read it before and it's slipping my mind right now.
goerring- its in the topic title :P