fall of the liberal party in canada

[RABBIT - THE - CUBAN - MILITANT]

Last night the government -the liberal party- (Canada’s first minority government in 25 years) fell. The three opposition parties - the Conservative party (far right), the NDP (New Democratic Party ... leftist) & The Bloc Quebecois (a Québec separatist party) - united to defeat Prime Minister Paul Martin's Liberals by voting for a simple motion: "That this House has lost confidence in the Government." …. Now an election will be held in January...

Fellow Canadian Comrades...how do u think this will effect our future??

[Wiesty]

I also watched this on the news, and i think that we're just going to get the liberals back again, but they're is a very good chance the conservatives will win, therefore we're all fucked. As for NDP i doubt that they will win the elections, they are the minority party in canada, next to the Bloc Quebecois, which are just a joke.

[Red Leader]

My theory is that last election, the liberals won because they were afraid of the conservatives and didn't trust them. Now citizens know not to trust the liberals either so the obvious choice is to vote NDP, there isn't any real reason not to. Howver, my guess is your probably right, Wiesty. The liberals will probably make some bullshit ad campaign and win over canadians again, however the NDP will probably win more seats than they ever had before.

[symtoms_of_humanity]

Are the conservatives like here in the U.S.and if they are, are you worried about commiting more to the "War on Terror" and the war in iraq?

Also, do they have the same policy about the environment as the conservatives(basically none, so would they allow more dirlling to be done on reservations)

[We'reTheFirstToDie]

I feel that we are pretty much fucked. People are stupid and now will vote for the Conservatives because of the sponsership scandel. Many people feel that a vote for the NDP is a wasted vote, which is simply not true. I believe that all us Canadians should try and support the NDP as much as we can. Although they are not perfect, they are a much much better choice than the Conservatives or Liberals.

[Samuel]

Well, either way, the fact that the Conservatives and the NDP got togeather on ANYTHING is impressive, and I agree with Red Leader, that the NDP will get many more seats than they ever have.

[kurt]

Same shit, different pile.

[RABBIT - THE - CUBAN - MILITANT]

fixing the Liberals image will be next to imposable , especially since the sponsor ship scandal ... i think it will be fought out in the media between then conservatives and the liberals but it will actually be between the conservatives and NDP in the polls ... i want I haven’t decided between voting for NDP the Green party , or the Communist Party of Canada ,hmmm much thinking to do <_<

[kurt]

Originally posted by RABBIT &#045; THE &#045; CUBAN &#045; [email protected] 29 2005, 07:10 PM
fixing the Liberals image will be next to imposable , especially since the sponsor ship scandal ... i think it will be fought out in the media between then conservatives and the liberals but it will actually be between the conservatives and NDP in the polls ... i want I haven’t decided between voting for NDP the Green party , or the Communist Party of Canada ,hmmm much thinking to do <_<
If you think long and hard enough, you&#39;ll realize voting won&#39;t change much.

[The_Titoist]

CONSERVATIVES SUCK..... THEY ARE ALL CONservatives. But, yeah im voting for NDP... my riding MP is a Pakistani Revolutionist. YAY&#33;

[OkaCrisis]

Originally posted by RABBIT &#045; THE &#045; CUBAN &#045; [email protected] 30 2005, 03:10 AM
fixing the Liberals image will be next to imposable , especially since the sponsor ship scandal ... i think it will be fought out in the media between then conservatives and the liberals but it will actually be between the conservatives and NDP in the polls ... i want I haven’t decided between voting for NDP the Green party , or the Communist Party of Canada ,hmmm much thinking to do <_<
In my opinion, all &#39;leftist&#39; Canadians should vote for the NDP, and not the Communist or Green parties at all. After all, if you&#39;re prepared to &#39;waste your vote&#39; on a party that you know has no chance of winning, you might as well just vote for the largest leftist party that you can, since they&#39;re the most likely to actually win an election.

If we all band together, maybe we can change something. Even if it&#39;s just a few more seats, isn&#39;t that better than nothing?

Then, once a leftist government (ie. the NDP) in in place to begin with, the other leftist parties will have the opporunity to grow and to perhaps someday succeed them, but until then, I urge all Canadians to VOTE NDP&#33;&#33;&#33;

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 09:54 PM
Then, once a leftist government (ie. the NDP) in in place to begin with, the other leftist parties will have the opporunity to grow and to perhaps someday succeed them, but until then, I urge all Canadians to VOTE NDP&#33;&#33;
Well, we don&#39;t really know much about the federal NDP, seeing how they haven&#39;t actually formed a government before. However, the BC NDP is closely linked with the federal NDP, and their record of strike breaking and attacks on working class people is just as long as any other party.

The bottom line is that they&#39;re all the same. Don&#39;t waste your time with capitalist elections&#33; And certainly don&#39;t waste peoples time by telling them that the NDP can solve anything. They can&#39;t&#33;

[redchrisfalling]

I was in the house for the vote, it was 137 for the Liberals and 171 for the opposistion. The PM just announced that the election will be on January 23, 2006
As for voteing...DON&#39;T. It is a waste of time for 90% of us. In my rideing the conservative party wins my 3-4 thousand vote margins everytime. Unless the NDP has a ligitimate chance in your area I say stop conforming to a corupt system, but thats just me

[Orthodox Marxist]

I seem to be at quite an Impass here so much to consider before january Cant vote liberal they would only screw us for another four years and no one would be punished for the sponsorship scandal which would give them a green light to do it again Cant vote conservative as they are allied with the bloc party voting for them would only increase bloc power that leaves only the NDP

[OkaCrisis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 08:48 AM
The bottom line is that they&#39;re all the same. Don&#39;t waste your time with capitalist elections&#33; And certainly don&#39;t waste peoples time by telling them that the NDP can solve anything. They can&#39;t&#33;
I&#39;d rather waste my time in an attempt to bring a more responsible government to Canada right now than wait however many years for a proletarian revolution to take hold. I&#39;d rather vote NDP than not vote at all. And I think that the NDP will do a lot more for the country if elected than the PCs or the Liberals, who, if we don&#39;t vote, will simply get back into power and continue to uphold the status quo. I&#39;d rather vote for change, I&#39;d rather vote for the possibility that the NDP will solve anything. They may not, but at least they&#39;d be given the chance.

What are the options for leftist Canadians? Not voting? Then the PCs or Liberals WILL be elected, as always, and there won&#39;t be any change or solutions ANYWAY. VOTE, and MAYBE some good will come out of NDP leadership. You never know.

In response to redchrisfalling, in Toronto, which is where I&#39;m from, the NDP do have a legitimate chance of being elected in most ridings. Downtown, the NDP are pretty well represented. I&#39;ll vote for them, and try to convince as many other people as I can to as well.

[kurt]

What are the options for leftist Canadians? Not voting? Then the PCs or Liberals WILL be elected, as always, and there won&#39;t be any change or solutions ANYWAY. VOTE, and MAYBE some good will come out of NDP leadership. You never know.
Not voting is an option. Like I&#39;ve already said, the NDP has proven in BC time and time again that they too will engage in anti-working class initiatives whenever it suits them. Don&#39;t waste your time pinning your hope in a capitalist ceremony that has no actual relevance to class struggle.


I&#39;ll vote for them, and try to convince as many other people as I can to as well.
If you&#39;re going to waste your time voting, at least don&#39;t try to convince others to vote. If you know it&#39;s useless, why would you blatantly lie to others? That will not help anything.

[OkaCrisis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 09:12 PM
If you&#39;re going to waste your time voting, at least don&#39;t try to convince others to vote. If you know it&#39;s useless, why would you blatantly lie to others? That will not help anything.
Fine. You can wait for the Revolution to come around, however long that will be.

I&#39;ll vote now because I don&#39;t want to wait that long to try to make a difference.

And I never said that I believed that voting is useless. I believe the exact opposite. And I&#39;ll never stop trying to convince people to vote, because LOOK at the world that we live in- if voting is the least I can do, I&#39;ll do it.

I understand that most of the people here are Communists and so don&#39;t believe in government at all, and I respect your decisions if you don&#39;t want to participate in the oppressive political regimes that today rule the world. But I&#39;d like to point out that none of us here live free from government- why not try to influence the one that has power over you?

If the Revolution can&#39;t happen today, then I believe in trying to do all I can within existing the system to try to make a difference, if even a small one.

[khalam_1232000]

i think that this could be the beginning of something great for this nation, perhaps back to the days when we were electing MP&#39;s , i mean in todays present situation, the Communist parties are not getting many votes, around 10 000 for the CPC-Ml and 5 000 for the CPC, but i think in time we will be able to pull something off, i mean there was a time when we were getting over 150 000 votes, and i think that the nation is drifting more and more left, and once the leaders of the CPC-ML and CPC can stop there bickering , and maybe make a merger, then it will be much better for the communists in our nation,

as for the election i see the same thing as before a liberal minority , with perhaps the NDP becoming a major player in the house, granted its very possible for the Conservatives or even the NDP for that matter to snatch a victory, all we can do is hope for the NDP, but i am pretty sure that we will see the 2 communist parties get more votes then the last few elections

[Correa]

Although I&#39;m believe the bourgeois state must be crushed before one can comence socialism. I admit would be fun to see a "communist" party run a bourgeois democracy&#33; :lol:

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 04:21 PM

Fine. You can wait for the Revolution to come around, however long that will be.

I&#39;ll vote now because I don&#39;t want to wait that long to try to make a difference.

And I never said that I believed that voting is useless. I believe the exact opposite. And I&#39;ll never stop trying to convince people to vote, because LOOK at the world that we live in- if voting is the least I can do, I&#39;ll do it.

I understand that most of the people here are Communists and so don&#39;t believe in government at all, and I respect your decisions if you don&#39;t want to participate in the oppressive political regimes that today rule the world. But I&#39;d like to point out that none of us here live free from government- why not try to influence the one that has power over you?

If the Revolution can&#39;t happen today, then I believe in trying to do all I can within existing the system to try to make a difference, if even a small one.
I never said not to do anything&#33; I simply said don&#39;t waste your time on useless things. The only meaningful battles that can be fought at the moment are on the streets and in the workplace. Bourgeois democracy will always serve the bourgeois system.

[OkaCrisis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 06:33 AM
The only meaningful battles that can be fought at the moment are on the streets and in the workplace. Bourgeois democracy will always serve the bourgeois system.
Alright.

But all I&#39;m saying is, even in small doses, why not attempt to infiltrate thier political system?

If at the very least, all it does is raise awareness, isn&#39;t that enough?


I believe in and fight alongside you in the battles on the street and in the workplace. But it is the political battles happening right now that ultimately have any impact on the world around us.

[kurt]

But all I&#39;m saying is, even in small doses, why not attempt to infiltrate thier political system?
The reason this method is not viable is because it has been proven an abysmal failure in the past. Social Democracy was believed to be "working" in the late 19th and early 20th century, until WWI happened. When WWI began, every European social democratic party enthusiastically plunged headfirst into the war, each supporting their own nation. After that, each party gradually drifted towards the right.

You can&#39;t "infiltrate" the bourgeois political system. It was designed to keep the bourgeois in power, while maintaining a facade of democracy, and it works&#33; The very nature of this institution tends to "water" down those who go in with "good intentions".


If at the very least, all it does is raise awareness, isn&#39;t that enough?
If anything, all you&#39;ll be doing is help to lie to the working class. They&#39;ll think you&#39;ll actually be able to do something while you&#39;re in there. You won&#39;t.