Anyone from Ireland ?

[Aurora]

If anyone here is from Ireland do you know if there is a serious revolutionary party?:)

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Well you can either choose the SWP or the Socialist Party

*whisper*There's not a great deal of difference*whisper*

[The Grey Blur]

Sinn Féin

[ScottishSocialist13]

Originally posted by Rage Against The [email protected] 28 2005, 03:30 PM
Sinn Féin
i wouldnt call them "revolutionary". :huh:

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by ScottishSocialist13+Nov 28 2005, 06:47 PM--> (ScottishSocialist13 @ Nov 28 2005, 06:47 PM)
Rage Against The [email protected] 28 2005, 03:30 PM
Sinn Féin
i wouldnt call them "revolutionary". :huh: [/b]
100 years of revolution, comrade

[bulrog]

Originally posted by ScottishSocialist13+Nov 28 2005, 06:47 PM--> (ScottishSocialist13 @ Nov 28 2005, 06:47 PM)
Rage Against The [email protected] 28 2005, 03:30 PM
Sinn Féin
i wouldnt call them "revolutionary". :huh: [/b]
So that wee war there was just for the craic was it?

[ScottishSocialist13]

It was based on religion more than anything. Ireland is independent and doesnt appear to be, in the slightest, socialist.

[The Grey Blur]

*Breaks down sobbing* How many times!? How many times...*is lead of quietly by Bulrog patting him on the back saying "there, there, it's allright*...

What on earth are you talking about!? Search the word 'Ireland' and read a few of the threads and then come back and argue with me, ok?

And of course Ireland isn't socialist - it's divided! There is no class-consciousness because of partition and only with its removal can socialism grow in Ireland - fact

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Originally posted by Rage Against The [email protected] 30 2005, 10:50 PM
*Breaks down sobbing* How many times!? How many times...*is lead of quietly by Bulrog patting him on the back saying "there, there, it's allright*...

What on earth are you talking about!? Search the word 'Ireland' and read a few of the threads and then come back and argue with me, ok?

And of course Ireland isn't socialist - it's divided! There is no class-consciousness because of partition and only with its removal can socialism grow in Ireland - fact
True, but you have to realise that the leadership of SF isn't really that into socialism. It may say it is but we're talking very small scale stuff here.

[ScottishSocialist13]

Originally posted by Rage Against The [email protected] 30 2005, 09:50 PM
*Breaks down sobbing* How many times!? How many times...*is lead of quietly by Bulrog patting him on the back saying "there, there, it's allright*...

What on earth are you talking about!? Search the word 'Ireland' and read a few of the threads and then come back and argue with me, ok?

And of course Ireland isn't socialist - it's divided! There is no class-consciousness because of partition and only with its removal can socialism grow in Ireland - fact
What are you talking about?

What is to stop Sinn Fein from making the Republic of Ireland a socialist nation?

You cant blame the partition for it. Believe me i hate the Union as much as anyone but alot of teh problems stopping Ireland from moving forward is based on Sectarianism.

[Andy Bowden]

Sinn Fein Minister Martin McGuiness oversaw PFI privatisation of schools. How can that be called Socialist?

[Aurora]

SF is in no way socialist and what holds Ireland back and most other countries is religion,in Ireland children are brainwashed from birth to think there is a god they are not given an alternative and they are not allowed to question their own beliefs.
This is a MAJOR problem as now people are more concerned with religion than their government,so instead of making the best of things they don't think about politics happy in the knowledge that when they die they will be free in a paradise.

What a load of bullshit we need to improve the world now,make our own paradise,I dont care about religion as far as im concerned religion is a private affair and should remain so.I don't care if you are a Christian,Muslim,Hindu,Buddhist or Jew that is your business and not mine so stop trying to fucking convert me,people should never be forced into anything they should learn about it then decide.

[The Grey Blur]

Well at least you understand the sitution Aunty Christ. It is true that socialism on the face of things in SF is "small-scale" - due to the neo-liberalism bullshit they've carried out in Northern Ireland but on ground level , working class level Sinn Féin is the most active socialist party in Ireland; just look at their support for the Dock & Ferry strikes, their activism and the alliances they've made with other groups on the left; the IRSP in the North and The Socialist Party in the South.


What are you talking about?
The ending of partition - the objective of Nationalists as well as Irish Republicans since 1921.


What is to stop Sinn Fein from making the Republic of Ireland a socialist nation?
What is to stop the Scottish Socialist Party from "making" Scotland a socialist nation?


You cant blame the partition for it. Believe me i hate the Union as much as anyone but alot of teh problems stopping Ireland from moving forward is based on Sectarianism
We can and do blame partition for many of the ills aflicting our country; sectarianism, infrastucture, equality, economy, all these have been abused by Partition and its continued existence.

It's also nothing to do with "hating the Union" (whatever that is) - this isn't pure Nationalism, it's a viable Socialist objective.


Sinn Fein Minister Martin McGuiness oversaw PFI privatisation of schools. How can that be called Socialist?
The position of Education Minister is, along with Health Minister, rightly regarded as a poisoned chalice in NI politics; you are going to have to cut costs (pressure from London is also a big factor in its unpopularity) .Guess who ended up with both these ministerial positions? - That's right, Sinn Féin.


SF is in no way socialist and what holds Ireland back and most other countries is religion,in Ireland children are brainwashed from birth to think there is a god they are not given an alternative and they are not allowed to question their own beliefs.
:blink: O-kayyyyy...have you noticed the religious apathy in Ireland mate? This isn't twenty years ago, the Church doesn't control the people, it can only bring minor influence to events.


What a load of bullshit we need to improve the world now,make our own paradise,I dont care about religion as far as im concerned religion is a private affair and should remain so.I don't care if you are a Christian,Muslim,Hindu,Buddhist or Jew that is your business and not mine so stop trying to fucking convert me,people should never be forced into anything they should learn about it then decide
Of course mate, but then again you're sort of preaching to the converted here.

In conclusion, if the Republican left has problems, so has the left with the Republicans; all revolutionary groups in Britain and Ireland should support the anti-Partition movement - Sinn Féin, despite all their imperfections and the heavy historical impedimenta they carry into political battle, are the vanguard of the anti-Imperialist struggle in Ireland - this partly because of the failures of the Left and their "Unconditional but critical support" for the anti-Partition movement. There is no such thing as an anti-imperialist that does not support Irish Republicans movement, and no such thing as a socialist who is not anti-imperialist.

Thank you.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Originally posted by Rage Against The [email protected] 2 2005, 12:30 AM
Well at least you understand the sitution Aunty Christ. It is true that socialism on the face of things in SF is "small-scale" - due to the neo-liberalism bullshit they've carried out in Northern Ireland but on ground level , working class level Sinn Féin is the most active socialist party in Ireland; just look at their support for the Dock & Ferry strikes, their activism and the alliances they've made with other groups on the left; the IRSP in the North and The Socialist Party in the South.
I guess it's a bit like Labour in Britain. The grass roots being a lot more socialist in nature than the leadership. But the question is, how do you say to the leadership, "No, this isn't what we want" and take back your party?

[ScottishSocialist13]

What is to stop the Scottish Socialist Party from "making" Scotland a socialist nation?

We need to be independent before that can happen. We dont even rule ourselves yet.


We can and do blame partition for many of the ills aflicting our country; sectarianism, infrastucture, equality, economy, all these have been abused by Partition and its continued existence.

Okay okay... the partition may be to blame for some of the problems, but its wrong to blame ever single problem on it. After all its only a border, not a scapegoat.



It's also nothing to do with "hating the Union" (whatever that is) - this isn't pure Nationalism, it's a viable Socialist objective.

Ummm the Union, thats what that flag in your avatar represents, the union of the kingdoms.

[Aurora]

Originally posted by Rage Against The [email protected] 1 2005, 11:30 PM

:blink: O-kayyyyy...have you noticed the religious apathy in Ireland mate? This isn't twenty years ago, the Church doesn't control the people, it can only bring minor influence to events.


Yes but it still is in charge of most schools in Ireland and I would say that is a major influence on the minds of children

[Lev]

Irish SWP are quality brothers and sisters in struggle. I marched with some of em in Gleneagles earlier this year.

I think sinn fein deserve critical support of socialists but I think during the early days of the civil rights movement a secular working class socialist party that said no to the tories north and south was in order. Took Eamon McCann a while to realise that a revolutionary party was nescessary but when he got it right he got it write:

"We have learned that mass ‘influence’ or prominent involvement in mass agitation is, despite sometime appearances to the contrary, meaningless and fruitless unless one is in the process of forging the political instrument necessary to lead such agitation to victory over the opposing force. We have learned that it is impossible to do that if one is not forearmed with a coherent class analysis of the situation and a clear programme based on it.

In a phrase, we need to build a mass, revolutionary Marxist party"

He's now a leading member of the irish SWP.

are the irish Socialist Party part of the CWI?? anyone know?

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 02:11 PM
are the irish Socialist Party part of the CWI?? anyone know?
Yes, they are.

[TheComrade]

I have lived in Belfast - on Hope Field Avenue...but now I live in England *sigh*

[bulrog]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 02:59 PM
We need to be independent before that can happen. We dont even rule ourselves yet.
And we aren't independant :lol:

And as long as theres a border there will be a mountain of problems.