What's the deal here?

[Correa]

As far as I'm concerned a great discussion was taking place regarding an attack on a local liquor store in Oakland, CA. This post was renamed to read "Oakland, CA - liquor store attacked, Neo-Puritan assholes at work" and placed in less visited Opposing Ideology/Religion section. Ideology and Religion were not at the forefront of this discussion although it seems the action was taken by members of the Nation of Islam. I feel as if I've been silenced and censored, but the main complaint here is not the fact that it was swept underneath the rug, but rather the alteration of my topic description. If you think these were "Neo-Puritan assholes at work" then reply by saying so. DO NOT alter MY post as it makes it seem that I was the one describng them as such. I'm sure whomever did this has never stepped foot in "da hood" and simply can't relate. A reply to the post challenging it would have been the right thing rather than simply moving it. Stop the war on the hood! Perhaps I should plea the 5th since I can't plea the 1st. Am I just over reacting? I'm not in the business of making enemies, especially among fellow leftist, but did I do something wrong? :huh:

[BattleOfTheCowshed]

I'm pretty new here but from what I've seen the administrators on this board do not tolerate pro-right-wing or pro-religious material. Although I am sure you probably posted in good nature and from a pro-Leftist perspective, the reality is that the Nation of Islam is not only a religious group but is a right-wing one which condemns homosexuality, seeks to control people's behaviour and is racist (and no I am not saying that groups that focus on personal identity, like say The Black Panthers, are racist, I support the Black Panthers :), but the NOI has outright said that Caucasians are not human beings and other stupid comments like that). That is probably why it was moved. Like I said, it seems theres a zero tolerance policy, that is probably why it was moved without comment. You seem like a member who has been here for a while so I would not take it to heart. Maybe a debate over the relation of the NOI and the left is in due order? :)

[Correa]

You make a good arguement and it is important for me to stress that my main complaint here is that the post was edited to read "Oakland, CA - liquor store attacked, Neo-Puritan assholes at work" when it originally read "Oakland, CA - liquor store attacked, Militant activist take action". Their religion and ideology are a side topic, the issue wether their actions were right or wrong. I will address the smokescreen arguements and say this. I personally view the NOI as the Islamic version of the The Catholic Worker (http://www.catholicworker.org) who say:

"When we examine our society, which is generally called capitalist (because of its methods of producing and controlling wealth) and is bourgeois (because of prevailing concern for acquisition and material interests, and its emphasis on respectability and mediocrity), we find it far from God's justice".

At times I'm sure they issue Pat Robertson like statements that are way out of line like the one you just mentioned. They should use the word "capitalist" instead of "caucasian" when refering to the rulers. I don't see anybody else leading 1,000,000 + people to Washington, D.C. to protest the government policies and they have express solidarity with the Cuban, Venezuelan, and Puerto Rican peoples. I don't think two rights make a wrong, but when you have a group of people that have worked for free for more than 300 years and build this nation in exchange for whipings when the "caucasians" reaped all the benefits I think a Pat Robertson style remark one is a while is forgivable. Then again if I was a white person I might have a diffrent bias. I'm ready to put this one behind me, I think I've vented enough. Phew :D

[BattleOfTheCowshed]

Well I hope you don't mind if I reply :). The problem with groups such as The Catholic Worker and Nation of Islam is that although they advocate increased humanitarianism/compassion and what not, neither of them has really called for a revolution to sweep away the Capitalist system. As such I tend to see their aim of increasing compassion in a capitalist world as a pretty futile one. I agree that they have done lots of work to combat racism and poverty and mobilized people, etc., and for that I commend them. I also agree that the oppressed have a right to have anger/rage against the oppressor. Nonetheless lots of the comments/acts by the NOI seems to be not fueled by hatred of their oppressor but by their own brand of racism. Their notion of the 5-10-85% nations are also interesting but what they are basically saying is a class-based society is natural and that one is unable to escape it. Basically, the working class is too stupid to take things into their own hands so they must rely on the top 5%? Its very convoluted but I find it hard to support the NOI.