Could Irak win?

[Guardia Bolivariano]

I just looked around documents about Irak's arsenal and found that they have the fourth best defense unit in the world the Republican Guard,in the golf war the aliance had to use 2 american and 2 brittish divisions folowed by heavy bombing to make then retreat.This unit of 40 000 men is the most loyal to Saddam and adding the fact that the US will have to use antiguerrilla and urban warfare tactics what are the posibilitys of an arab victory?

[Sinistra]

Although the republican guard is the fourth best defence unit in the world , thw US army is the best offensive , and deffensive army in the world . dont forget that the land arfare will start only after heavy air bombing , this bombing will cause heavy losses in the Iraqy army , not to mention moral dropping .

I hvae one question to all if you , you do agree ( no matter what the US realy wants) that Saddam Hosein should be overthrown ? and that the Iraqy people need a democratic President ?

[Larissa]

I wish he won and showed the "mighty" US army they cannot fuck whoever they want in the world. But, to be honest, it is not likely to result in such way. Possibly if NK supports Iraq.

[Boris Moskovitz]

I agree with you, I also hope that Iraq can win this dumb war, but, well, US is kinda too dominating, so much idiots around the world would follow Bush blindly like mindless puppets, which kinda reminds me of Hitler.

[Dhul Fiqar]

To quote the best comedian in the world, Bill Hicks: "Iraq may have the fourth biggest army in the world, but after the first three there's a REEAAALLL big fucking drop off, people..."

They have no chance, and the Republican Guard is a joke. They have maybe a thousand loyal RG's, the rest of them spent the Gulf War showing how fast they could run.

As much as I'd LOVE to see the U$A get it's ass kicked á la Vietnam, there's practically no chance of that happening here.

--- G.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

Two things can really play a part here the US troops do badly in urban warfare and since It will be an ocupation army Jihad is always open.And about the RG not even the US jokes about them they really don't want to fight them ,they haven't even disclasified what happen in the batlle with then in the gulf war.And just imagine is they really have nukes.Imagine what could happen to those targeted 250 000 US troops with just one AL-HUSSEIN.

[Red Liberation]

There may be a chance of a long drawn out ground struggle. But if america and Britiain play cowards and choose to bomb the crap out of them instead then who knows...

[Archie Victus]

I don't think Bill Hicks is the best comedian in the world. I'd put my money on George Carlin.

Iraq will not win. Saddam is a major risk to the world. A few days ago in a speech, he promised that the U.S. will suffer major casualities. Only way I can see the U.S. losing major casualities is if he uses WMD. I can't see us losing the war by Iraqi soldiers throwing sand and rocks at our soldier.

[CheViveToday]

I, like apparently most of you, certainly wouldn't mind seeing the US Military get smacked around in the war. It could happen, but probably won't. I highly doubt the Republican Guard and the rest of the Iraqi Military could have improved very much in a dozen years. Unfortunately, I think we may find out the truth sooner than we think or want.

[Blibblob]

I would like to see the US lose.

They arent great with guerrila warfare, they rely on formations and heavy assult from powerful weapons. They have a great arsenal, but if they fought a full guerrila war, theyd lose.

[Archie Victus]

So all of you want to see the demise of the United States by losing a war? That's pretty chicken shit on your part. I agree with this war, and don't give me the oil bullshit, but I don't want to see Iraqi soldiers die. I would like to see a peaceful resolution, and Saddam give up his powers. Do you think Saddam gives a shit about his soldiers? I sure as hell doubt it.

[Archie Victus]

I can't believe I'm actually reading this shit from you people. This board sure as hell lost much intelligence and respect. All you newbies are seriously destroying the integrity of the board.

[CheViveToday]

Archie, I commend you for not wishing death upon any Iraqi soldiers. I also do not wish any death upon any US soldiers. I also think it's great you want a peacful resolution, as do I. You're right, Sadaam does not give a damn about his soldiers, but what makes you think Bush cares about ours? Because he cut turkey for them on Thanksgiving?! He obviously doesn't care since he's going to be trading the lives of our soldiers for oil. Apparently you don't believe the oil theory, but it is certainly true. Just look at all the facts on it scattered throughout this board. I'm not so sure you belong here.

[Larissa]

Quote: from CheViveToday on 5:13 pm on Feb. 8, 2003
Archie, I commend you for not wishing death upon any Iraqi soldiers. I also do not wish any death upon any US soldiers. I also think it's great you want a peacful resolution, as do I. You're right, Sadaam does not give a damn about his soldiers, but what makes you think Bush cares about ours? Because he cut turkey for them on Thanksgiving?! He obviously doesn't care since he's going to be trading the lives of our soldiers for oil. Apparently you don't believe the oil theory, but it is certainly true. Just look at all the facts on it scattered throughout this board. I'm not so sure you belong here. I second that CheViveToday and OF COURSE; NO DOUBT that Bushyguy is ONLY after OIL and sure gives a damn about anyone's life.

(Edited by Larissa at 5:52 pm on Feb. 8, 2003)

[Guardia Bolivariano]

Bush and Saddam do care about their soldiers,they want them to win.These two people are both dirty bastards but Bush is a bigger threat to the world than Irak.So lets hope there is no war but if there is that the US doesn't get It done so easy .

(Edited by Guardia Bolivariano at 9:48 pm on Feb. 8, 2003)

[hawarameen]

so here we have the makings of another 8 european countries thred.

im sorry to keep bringing it up but it is something i feel strongly about but if you want america to loose, do you not feel anything for the people of iraq?

[Tasha]

Im sure saddam will be prepared for bombings and cruise missles. Its extremely obvious the united states will do this first and I am sure he will have prepared plans for it. Of course both sides are thinking but Im afraid I think the USA might win due to their superior technology (nightvision long range artillery tanks etc.). However if they plan to walk into baghdad im sure they will suffer massive or at least high casualties. Of course the media reports the troops are being trained to shoot women and children if they are not positive if they are armed or not.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

I don't know ,but I have my doubts about a total american victory in Irak.I mean wen you can't runaway anymore you have to go down fighting.

[Dhul Fiqar]

We should start making bets on the duration and outcome of the war, I'm sure there's some sick fuck taking them somewhere...

--- G.

[Sinistra]

I have to say that i agree with archie , i want to see Iraq , or better to say Saddam loose . If you sont get it , and i am talking to all of those who want to see the U.S loose , thay saddam wants to kill you , you know he realy is trying to develope nuclearbiologicalchimical weaponds , and he won't hesitate to use these weaponds on all of you .

And i bellieve that the stuation of the Iraqi people will get better after the war is over , first- the sanctions will be lifted . and dont forget that when Saddam is overthrown they will final have democracy , they will have freedome of speech . freedome of living ... and it doesn't matter what you think , the U.S is the Sign of freedome today . and as absured as it may sound to you it fights for the freedome of the world , thir world , our world ... every bodie's world .

It doesn't matter what the U.S is realy after ( althoug i dont believe in the OIL theory) as long as this war brings freedome to Iraq . if you ask me i would say that this case is very similiar to the case if Hitler . and i am sure that none of you will disagree with the amreican atack against Germany .

[Dhul Fiqar]

"Oil theory"? You're kidding, right? There is absolutely no other plausible reason for going in, I have had long discussions on the subject with people actively involved in international diplomacy and this is not even a contested point by anyone except maybe the #2 man in the US embassy, and even he refrained from comment.

The fact is that there are many other regimes a thousand times worse and much more willing to use their weapons. Many of them have much worse biological and chemical weapons than Iraq. Iraq, however, has the third largest oil reserves in the entire world.

If you can think of any other reasonably possible variable to differentiate the Iraqi situation from the general despotic situations and regimes around the wolrd, I'm all ears. But you can't, because it isn't there, and even if it was it would just serve as a good diversion.

Seriously, read up on the history of this 'conflict' and it'll jump right out at you that nine 9/10 people involved in any kind of scholarly, diplomatic or professional work regarding Iraq is in complete agreement over this. Even right wing fascist bastards, who argue oil is a good reason for war, don't contest this.

-- G.

[LeonardoDaVinci]

I feel sorry for the thousands of Iraqis that are trapped in the middle. Either get killed by the Americans, or get killed by Saddam's Republican guard.

[Larissa]

Now, that they promised to allow UN reconnaissance flights all over their country with US American planes and agreed with an extension of the flight prohibition zone to the complete territory, what else could the Iraq do to stop the threatening war?

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Quote: from Archie Victus on 7:34 pm on Feb. 8, 2003
I don't think Bill Hicks is the best comedian in the world. I'd put my money on George Carlin.

Iraq will not win. Saddam is a major risk to the world. A few days ago in a speech, he promised that the U.S. will suffer major casualities. Only way I can see the U.S. losing major casualities is if he uses WMD. I can't see us losing the war by Iraqi soldiers throwing sand and rocks at our soldier.


The Yanks said the same when going to Vietnam, the Soviets said the same when going to Afganistan.

Incredible what an AK, a commited person and a good hideout place can do.

If you just lie down with an AK and wait for the US forces, they'ill be ass kicked.

We all know Vassilli Zaitsev, he demonstrated what geurilla warfare can do.

[hawarameen]

people who object to this war really do not know the reality of life in iraq. i am not saying this to be offensive or insulting but you cant know what really goes on even i dont know. but what i do know are things that are going on inside iraq, people in iraq dont care for oil they care for their lives and they will give up the oil for a bit of peace.
someone accused me of not being a leftist on another thread, saddam has no feeling for human life, if he does not kill anyone today he will kill two people tomorw, where is the justice in that, when the working people of iraq and kurdistan are in constant fear for their lives. saddam has people working for him all over the place, i know from experience that when a kurdish friend visited baghdad, a lady pointing to a picture of saddam said he's bad. now either she is the voice of the people or she will have you killed the same night. this is the very day to day reality of iraq that people have had enough of.

oil breads capitalism, it is its foundation and if capitalist america wants it then they can have it, i would prefer to live in a country without oil but with a just social system

[Sinistra]

Hawarameen .

Are the iraqies better off without Saddam or not ?
that is my question to you .

[Tasha]

One thing I really fear is when the oil is sucked up out of iraq, iran etc.... These countries will starve, literally, they have no export big enough in the least to provide enough food for their population.

I agree with you CCP the US was won using guerilla warfare. However the US does have thermal planes and satelites, so it may be hard to get a good hideout. However I'm sure if they plan it right anything can be done.

The only use for us bases in the middleeast is for intimidating for cheap oil, and helping out israel. The us made radical movements against english troops stationed in the united states. This country was built on the very principles that we are violating today. Shows how much power can corrupt.

[redstar2000]

I imagine there are casinos in Las Vegas and Reno (Nevada) that will book your bet on the war...if not now, then in a few days or weeks. (Call the toll-free sportsbook line and ask for special events; have your credit card ready.)

The U.S. will be heavily favored to win, of course...but you might get a good bet on the length of the hostilities; Iraq might prove to be a little tougher than the odds-makers calculate.

Could Iraq win? Short of "divine intervention", I frankly don't see how.

Will the new U.S.-imposed dictatorship be any "improvement" on Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party? Probably not. In fact, if you look at the despotic regimes in Kuwait, "Saudi" Arabia, Egypt and Morocco...you can probably get a good idea of the range of possibilities for U.S.-occupied Iraq. Imperialists rarely innovate; they stick with what has already "worked."

:cool:

[Larissa]

Please everyone, I need a favor...Try to read (when you have time) Fabetz post at:
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...m=11&topic=2841 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=11&topic=2841)

It's an interesting post made by Fabetz (a Brazilian Che-lives member) who asked me to translate it into English.

I just did so, in a rush, so feel free to correct and/or edit any mistakes or typos or gramatical horrors I might have made.

Thanks, for your help.

It's a text about the people of Iraq regarding the forthcoming war.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

As long as there are firearms and commited people the US hasn't won. Believe me, this will be much thougher for them than they think.

However geurilla warfare in desserts is much harder than in jungles. But you can never know. Look at Afganistan.

If there would be a nation/group who can provide the Iraqi groups modern weapons, there are loads of weapons man carried able to destroy choppers, (low-flying) planes and tanks.

Look at the effect of the stinger, if the Iraqi's would get those. The US won't be able to move (savely) hundert thousands troops in. (Without chopper support you're pretty vunerable.)

[Dhul Fiqar]

The Taleban had lots of Stingers, the Iraqis probably don't have more than a dozen or two, if that. I don't think they were issued them like the Mujahedin who were fighting against the Soviets, although it is possible that the transaction was just not revealed. There are certainly still skeletons in the closet from the Iran-Iraq war...

In any case,, it doesn't matter. I think Afghanistan has indeed shown that you don't need to take out every single pocket of malnutritioned hold-outs in every cave to claim victory. The public seems satisfied that the proper war there is basically over and now they just need to recon and find the pockets of Al Qaeda and carpet bomb them or use napalm or whatever to grill them alive before they get a single shot off.

I'm sorry, but I see no chance for anyone against the US army today. I know for a fact, and you can verify this incredible statistic if you like, the US spends almost the same amount to military expenses as the entire rest of the world put together.

--- G.

[Tasha]

The united states military budget exceeds the next 9 below them in the top 10 military spending countries combined.

[Sinistra]

There is just wamt think i dont understand , why do almost al of you want the US to loose . i can understand why somebody is against the war , but not someone that Favours Saddam , and not freedome .

[deimos]

As the others said it: THere's not a chance. The iraqi army will be annihilated in 2-3 days. The Republican Guards are a joke. They can do nothing in the desert against american high tech stuff. And saddam be attacked from 4 sides:From the north, from the south, and from the iraqi people.
I can't understand the arguments of some people. Even if the americans get the oil-who cares????Iraq can(i didn't say will) also benfit from the exploitation of its oilfields. I don't care what the iraqis do. I think the us will be stupid enough to install a saudi style ultra corrupt regime in iraq. But in kurdistan, we'll keep our democracy, no matter what the arabs in the south are doing.
@larissa:
Do you really believe what this nun said??Thats ridicoulous. She is one f saddam's puppets.She says what the government ordered her to say.


They spread viruses and germs of all kinds covering the complete national agricultural area. They even threw us rats, in bags, on parachutes...
Thats a lie. The US only attacked the iraqi industry(the real reason for the 2nd gulf war)
They bombed some agricultural areas in saudi arabia(collateral damage...)

(Edited by deimos at 8:51 pm on Feb. 11, 2003)

[Larissa]

@larissa:
Do you really believe what this nun said??Thats ridicoulous. She is one f saddam's puppets.She says what the government ordered her to say.

Not the government but the congregation of the Dominican sisters.

[LeonardoDaVinci]

Well, I'm a great believer in the saying "where there is a will there is a way." But guys, unlike in Vietnam, where there was a great revolutionary leader in Ho Chi Minh who had the support of his people, Saddam Hussein is despised by the entire population. Hardly surprising considering the despotic nature of Saddam's rule. You must be joking if you think anyone would risk his own life to protect that thug Saddam and the murderous Baath party.

For most Iraqis the quicker this conflict ends the the easier it will be. That way, they don't get showered with carpet bombs everyday for 3 months. And perhaps more importantly for them, they get rid of Saddam, the UN sanctions are lifted, and they can finally resume their lives which have been devastated by Saddam, the US and the international community.

[redstar2000]

"Why would 'we' like to see the U.S. lose the war?"

Good question. To answer it, you have to ask yourself why the working class in the advanced capitalist countries is so politically "backward".

One of the crucial reasons is what could be called "the imperial mythology"...in the United States, we are told and all too many believe that it really is our (God-given) historical destiny to rule the world...at least, all the parts of it that are of any interest to our ruling class.

This is all "for their own good" of course--I mean the people we rule. We will, by pursuasion if possible but at gunpoint if necessary, teach them how to be "good Americans"--hard working, obedient to their superiors, willing to consume massive amounts of shoddy consumer crap, etc.

It is a mythology that has been in formation from the very birth of this nation...and is now more wide-spread than ever before. Maybe 80% of all Americans have faith in America's glorious world destiny...even though they are incurably cynical about domestic capitalist politics.

Military defeat is the acid that eats away at...and ultimately destroys the imperial myth. When people see that the blood and sacrifice has been for nothing except the greed and prestige of the ruling class...then we'll have some real hopes here.

Sorry to say, it will be awhile. :sad:

[hawarameen]

Quote: from Sinistra on 4:35 pm on Feb. 11, 2003
Hawarameen .

Are the iraqies better off without Saddam or not ?
that is my question to you .



and a silly one at that.

i cant see anyone other than saddam gassing a village of 5000, introducing an anfal campaign killing hundreds of thousands over decades.

[vodun]

Quote: from CheViveToday on 8:13 pm on Feb. 8, 2003
I also do not wish any death upon any US soldiers.
Quote: from CheViveToday on 7:39 pm on Feb. 8, 2003
I, like apparently most of you, certainly wouldn't mind seeing the US Military get smacked around in the war.Don't argue with yourself. And don't sniff glue.

[deimos]

Quote: from CheViveToday on 8:13 pm on Feb. 8, 2003
I also do not wish any death upon any US soldiers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: from CheViveToday on 7:39 pm on Feb. 8, 2003
I, like apparently most of you, certainly wouldn't mind seeing the US Military get smacked around in the war.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHROFLROFL

[deimos]

@larissa:
Do you think that the congregation of the dominican sisters in Iraq is independent from the regime?No, they aren't. If this sister had said: Kill Saddam, he's an evil murder etc. etc. but please, don't attack because etc. etc., she would have been killed by Saddams goons.They don't give a damn that she is a nun. Saddam would kill Mohammed the prophet and Jesus if he was living in present day Iraq.

[Larissa]

Deimos, I'm no Saddam fan or supporter. Yet, I do not justify IN ANY SENSE the true slaughter that this almost inevitable war will be. And, yes, IMO, I think the US might have bombed the agricultural fields with chemical stuff because they did that once in Cuba, so nothing is really new about that. I don't think this nun is lying about it.

Also, some media have already warned about the psychological depression of the people in Iraq. There have been some threads here, especially in the newswire section, about this issue.

(Edited by Larissa at 10:57 am on Feb. 12, 2003)

[deimos]

Why should the americans bomb agricultural fields??????
Why??Do you really think the US are insane people who want to kill every Iraqi?They gain no avantage in killing iraqi civilians.

[Larissa]

Quote: from deimos on 11:49 am on Feb. 12, 2003
Why should the americans bomb agricultural fields??????
Why??Do you really think the US are insane people who want to kill every Iraqi?They gain no avantage in killing iraqi civilians. I'm not claiming that ALL the US people want to kill the Iraqis!!!!

BUSH is the INSANE who wants to get the oil despite who dies, even his own people!

And, sorry Deimos, I've been living in Cuba and the fields were bombed with chemical stuff.

And, of course, there were other ways that the US gov "killed" ppl over the world...starving poor countries, for instance, with their selfish capitalistic politics.

Finally, I've lived twice in the US (Ann Arbor, MI) and I could see how the US gov gave a shit about school violence and that sort of destructive-nature issues. So???

Are you going to tell me the US gov is "that" nice, "that" good and "that" innocent??

Why don't you just come to Argentina and take a look around, you will get a better pic about what I am talking about.

I don't support war, I don't support violence, I don't support terrorism, and I have lived in a country where all of this has been very common...and most of times supported by your beloved government!

e.g.: Military dictatorship, strongly supported by the CIA and the US gov, who torutred and "vanished" over 30,000 ppl during 1976-1983...nice guys...
Isn't this a terrorist act? Isn't this killing ppl?

I wish you really got some more REAL and TRUE info and self experience about what the US gov "achieved" and you can't even believe in they did.

(Edited by Larissa at 12:06 pm on Feb. 12, 2003)

[Larissa]

BTW, if Bush really manages to pull his trick and go to war against Iraq despite all the opposition, he's facing in the whole world and in his own country.

Plus, a lot of innocent US civilians will not be safe wherever part of the world they will be. The threat of a reprisal (retaliation or revenge, don't know the exact term) will be pending over their heads any time. Too sad IMO.

(Edited by Larissa at 2:20 pm on Feb. 12, 2003)

[Larissa]

Is there a list of all the local governments and legislatures that have passed anti-war resolutions in the USA?

I'm not being sacarstic, I'm just asking.

[deimos]

It seems that nobody understands me...
WHY the hell should the USA be interested in killing an Iraqi farmer????????????

times supported by your beloved government!
???????My beloved government!?!?!??!Now that was a strong offense....
I hate the current US administration, but in this war, we'll fight together with them. After the war we can give a damn about those greedy pigs. Lets hope that they just don't put their noses in our business...
I KNOW that the United states don't give a damn abuot anyone. I know what they did. They are the biggest threat to world peace. The support everyone, no matter what he does.
Right now they make the same mistake again: They support the Dictatorships in central asia heavily. I am convinced that in 20 years, the new "rogue state" and supporter of the terrorists will be turkmenistan.
I know that the bomb which killed 7000 kurdish civilians in halabja was a "gift" by the united states.

BUSH is the INSANE who wants to get the oil despite who dies, even his own people!
I agree 100%.

[PunkRawker677]

Deimos.. i think her point was:

They did it in Cuba, what the hell is gonna stop them from doing it in Iraq.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Nevermind, you can't talk them over.

This is their plan:

Support USA in war
Hoping to have the name Kurd on a region
Hoping for freedom

[heavy sarcasm]Great plan, sounds like a masterplan.[/heavy sarcasm]

[hawarameen]

cccp can i ask you, are you sortsighted or just read what you want and forget the rest of the stuff.

how many times have me and deimos told you that IT IS NOT ABOUT LAND, HAVING THE NAME "KURDISTAN" ON A PEICE OF LAND. How many more time do you want me to tell you until it gets through?

it is about ENDING PERSECUSION AND THE MISSERY OF MILLIONS, YES MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, KURDS OR OTHERWISE IN IRAQ. how is this wrong? and what may i ask is wrong with having freedom? isnt this what most revolutionaries fight for? were che and fidel wrong for fighting for freedom??

[hawarameen]

far more peoples lives are at risk if saddam stays in power is it ok for you to say that it doesnt matter how many people will die under saddam just as long as america doesnt get the oil?

i told you about 72 times already that I DONT GIVE A RATS PISS ABOUT OIL I CARE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE, ARE AND WILL BE SUFFERING FROM SADDAMS REGIME.

[Tasha]

I don't know what the true answer is to this the usa bombing with chemicals or not can both be argued. But since I can't trust this country to be such a great place my guess is as good as larrisa.

History has shown that the united states will and can use chemical and even nuclear weapons. Asking why to kill farmers is almost the same as asking why to drop a bomb on hiroshima. Killing agriculture will let the army and people to starve further hurting their morale and health. Also dropping chemicals on their water supply will have the same effect. Why did the usa drop an atomic bomb on hiroshima and nagasaki, why on civilians. Because it will have a much more drastic effect.
Without supplies the entire iraqi army will collapse.

Hawar, when the oil is gone sucked up by the usa for almost nothing. Iraqi people will starve.

(Edited by Tasha at 8:29 pm on Feb. 13, 2003)

[Tasha]

USA kills another countrys civilians just to spare their troops. Troops are involved in the conflict and can die. Civilians should have no part NO PART in a war.

[deimos]

Come on, they don't need that. The iraqi army is completely demoralized. I highly doubt that the US will have any casualties at all.

[Flippart]

Would have been better with no war, but I don't think Irak can win this war. I think North-Korea is a greater threat against USA. George W. Bush got a missing thing between his ears.

[Tasha]

Thats why they are launching all those cruise missles? Yea right the usa will chemically kill thousands of iraqi civilians to spare 1 usa troops. It should be the other way around.

[deimos]

Yes, thats true. But thats why the USA will have only very few casualties: They fight from a distance. Únhittable planes, and cruise missiles. I also despise this way of fighting. I despise war generally(but sometimes its inevitable), but especcially this kind of joystick fighting. The soldier press a button, they see the detonation, but they don't see any dead bodies. They should see what they(or their politicians) have done.

[Boris Moskovitz]

Yep Yep Yep Deimos, you're absolutely right. US, ALWAYS, or most of the time, fight from a long distance, or from above. Pfff.... I really think that way of fighting is cowardly, dont you people think the same?

[hawarameen]

under the control of someone with half a brain iraq will be very prosperous, with or without oil.
the kurdish controlled area in the north has recieved no oil money for many years and is at this moment in a far far better position than the rest of iraq, in baghdad for example electricity is only available in some areas for a limited time during the day. in the whole of kurdistan all houses now have relatively constant access to electricty. new roads have been built, youth centres for kids, shopping arcades, factories and many more whilst in bagdad the people are being starved and the oil saddam has been allowed to sell to provide free medicine is being sold on the black market. that is the situation of iraq under saddam and kurdistan is how iraq could be without him.

[deimos]

I agree. But its its not only sadamms fault that the people starve and die in bagdad. for instance, many medicines can't be importated because saddam could make chemical weapons out of it...I think you've all recognized that I am not a friend of saddam, but I am sure that he wouldnt do that.

[Sinistra]

I have to say that i agree with Hawarameen , there is no reason for the US to bomb agriculture fields in Iraq , it is even bad for the US if agriculture field were bombed because the US wants to look as if it is the saviour of world freedome ( maybe it is right meaybe it is wrong) .
I think there is even a chance that Saddam will bomb agriculture fields , inorder to show the world that the US is unhuman , he had REALY don it once , and hw eill do it again .

[deimos]

To be honous, I think that all of this "they bombed our agricultural fields stuff" is invened. Neither the US nor the marsians bomed them.