Get my head around this.

[Noah]

Hey guys,

While I was reading matiasm's thread, a question which has been lingering in my head has come up and I would really like it answering.

My dad used to be a communist in Iraq and fought in a struggle which failed and the communists had to flee. My dad came to England.

He now runs a business by selling his crafts. He runs a stall in an indoor market, he sells gold (his dad was a goldsmith and taught him the trade) . Obviously he pays rent to the owner of the indoor market and works approximately 60 hours a week.

He does make money and he can provide for us but he isn't seriously loaded or anything amongst those lines.

He doesn't get anyone to work for him in his workshop or at the stall. He doesn't really have a lust for money sometimes we talk and he says he still very much supports communism but it was just to hard to come to England as a desperate immigrant, feed the family and send money back home to Iraq and carry on for the cause for communism.

Sometimes I feel sorry for him because he never buys anything for himself, not even clothes he just wears the same clothes but instead provides a better way of living for us (children) by labouring donkeys hours in the workshop and trying to sell jewellery in the market.

Which class would my dad fit into? I'm not sure whether it would be proletriat or petit-bourgeose?

What do you guys think?

[kurt]

petit-bourgeois since he does not employ anyone, but is still not a wage-slave.

[Noah]

Any one else..?

[Red Leader]

Yeah, I guess by definition petit bourgeois, however is the perfect example of a communist. He lives not for money, and works hard, asks for nothing in return and does not give into capitalist decadence. If England were communist, this is how he would live, however not struggling to feed his family because all would be fed. he wouldn't be competing with another goldsmith trades, which I assume he does now because he lives in a free market society (i doubt he is the only goldsmith in england). I do admire your dad's perserverance very much. He is a real comrade.

[chilcru]

Just some clarification before I venture an answer.

Does he work the craft himself? No assistant whatsover? He does not buy labor power?

Does he sell his produce by himself too? No assistant whatsoever?

[Noah]

That's correct he makes some gold himself and buys other gold because he doesn't have the machinary for it.

And also works in the shop by himself.

[Fidel Follower]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 26 2005, 01:23 AM
petit bourgeois
Sorry Noah im going off subject but can you tell me the definition of this? I have never come across it before? :blink:

[Noah]

From what I've gathered a petit bourgeois is someone who owns a shop or restaurant and runs it themself. They don't own big factories, where lots of people work.

It's the type of business where the person working at the shop is the owner because they can't afford to put in other people but they get paid more than people working at a factory.

I'm not an expert perhaps someone more knowledgable could clarify but this is what I have gathered from the term 'petit bourgeois'.

I don't know why my dad would fit the criteria 'petit bourgeois' because at his market stall the owner forces him to open the shop or else he gets closed down so he doesn't actually have control over the business.

And next semptember the openning times will be 12 hours a day, from 8 to 8 (don't forget my dad has to come home repair gold, make more gold ect) and open 7 times a day. The people at the top know the market workers can't afford to pay people to do shifts and are going to make life very hard for them. But they know for the majority of smithers or people who craft items, selling their items is the only way to make money.

Noah.

[Fidel Follower]

Thanks Noah!

[ComradeOm]

You're pretty much right there with that definition there Noah. The term petit-bourgeois is generally used to classify those workers who are neither wage slaves or capitalists. They tend to be either sole traders of those in professions (doctors, lawyers).

If your Dad isn't paid wages and yet doesn't employ anyone it makes him petit bourgeois. The fact that he has a capitalist on his back shouldn't change matters, the bourgeoisie exploit everyone.

But to be honest I wouldn't read too much into that. Social theory does not deal in absolutes and your Dad is clearly a communist.

[Noah]

Thanks for the replies guys and thanks for backing up my definition Comrade Om at least now I know hours of educating myself hasn't gone for waste and i've grasped important definitions properly!

Thanks again, Noah

[chilcru]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 12:36 PM
That's correct he makes some gold himself and buys other gold because he doesn't have the machinary for it.

And also works in the shop by himself.
Your venerable father, comrade, reminds me of the independent artisan producers back in the days when capitalism was still in the stage of putting-up system, some kind of cottage industry. The artisans were the precursors of manufacturing capitalists and on that score your father is a petty-bourgeois.