welfare

[Punk Rocker]

Communism, our dream and ultimate goal, is a free society with no classes and no state.

Something we should think about is, with no state, where will welfare come from?

Nothing is perfect, there will be some poor people at some point who will need welfare, and there will also be elderly and disaster vitcims too.

[LSD]

You seem to be confused on the nature of communism.

A classless society, by definition, cannot have "poor people". If there is poverty then there is economic power disparty and the society is neither classless nor free.

In a communist society, there is no need for welfare because there is no need for money. The abolition of capitalism nescessarily carries with it the abolition of capital as a means of exchange.

If an elderly person or a disaster victim wishes to eat strawberries, they will eat strawberries. They will most certainly not "buy" them!

[anomaly]

LSD is right. With communism comes the neccesary destruction of what we refer to as 'money'. That is, as far as economic measurements go, everyone is equal. So there is no need for welfare because there will be no poor people. You may say, in fact, that a communist economy is a 'welfare' economy, that is, one in a commune will work for the welfare of all others, because all others are working for the welfare for one.

[Punk Rocker]

You seem to be confused on the nature of communism.

A classless society, by definition, cannot have "poor people". If there is poverty then there is economic power disparty and the society is neither classless nor free.

Do you really think once we reach communism we will have no problems at all? Communism is the best we can do but nothing is perfect.

You have to expect some problems, especially when the chains of the state have just been broken. At the very least there will be some disasters and diseases.


If an elderly person or a disaster victim wishes to eat strawberries, they will eat strawberries. They will most certainly not "buy" them!

Giving that strawberry to that old guy is still welfare. Only instead of a socialist state giving him cash, it's a commune giving him a strawberry.

Other than that I get what you guys are saying.

[chilcru]

Originally posted by Punk [email protected] 24 2005, 08:34 PM
Communism, our dream and ultimate goal, is a free society with no classes and no state.

Something we should think about is, with no state, where will welfare come from?

Nothing is perfect, there will be some poor people at some point who will need welfare, and there will also be elderly and disaster vitcims too.
In communist society, punk rocker, everyone works and gets a share of the social produce according to each one's needs. So there is no need to go "welfare" for the working population because every one's needs will be taken cared of by the principle "from each according to his capabilities, to each according to his needs".

But society is to do some "welfare" for those who can not work for whatever reason: the disabled, the aged, and children. The "welfare benefits" will come from a portion of the social product that will be appropriated for social services such as hospitals, home for the aged and disabled, and day care centers.

For more of this concept, please read Marx's A Critique of the Gotha Programme.

[GiveITall]

In a communist society the welfare will come from the community. As opposed to capitalism, individuals in a communist society will be motivated to work for the benefit of society.

As LSD has already pointed out there should be no poor people in a communist society because the society will be classless. That does not mean that problems will not arise and that the need for welfare will disappear as not everyone will have the equal ability to work. Yet welfare will be provided to those who need it because the basic assumption of a communist society is from each according to ability to each according to need.

Therefore I would argue that welfare in a communist society will be much more efficient and beneficial than in a capitalist society because the aim of welfare in communist society will be to help people whereas in a capitalist society welfare tends to keep people trapped below the poverty line.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by Punk [email protected] 26 2005, 03:03 PM

If an elderly person or a disaster victim wishes to eat strawberries, they will eat strawberries. They will most certainly not "buy" them!

Giving that strawberry to that old guy is still welfare. Only instead of a socialist state giving him cash, it's a commune giving him a strawberry.

Other than that I get what you guys are saying.
but that's not welfare in a communist society, that is communism

from each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

if the elderly man does not have the ability to give something to the society, that doesn't mean he won't receive anything. that would go against what communism means

edit: i just read the post above mine and realised the exact same points were brought up :P

my bad :P

[Punk Rocker]

It's all cool.

[Livetrueordie]

Do you really think once we reach communism we will have no problems at all? Communism is the best we can do but nothing is perfect. poverty would be abolished, so you don't need welfare. it's not called welfare when someone is entitled to it.