is a utopia possible?

[Rawthentic]

Utopian, in its most common and general positive meaning, refers to the human efforts to create a better society, a perfect society that does not exist, and, never will do. This is the definition in wikipedia. Can we ever actually achieve a communist utopia with no state and a completely classless society? :blink:

[Janus]

No, it is impossible for humans to achieve perfection though we constantly strive for it. We humans have too many flaws inherent and learned that prevent us from actually creating a Utopia.

[redstar2000]

Caution is advised when consulting Wiki-pedia. It can be "very good" or "just ok" or a load of crap.

Each article is the collective product of a group of people interested in that subject...and, on occasion, their personal agendas can overcome the facts of the situation.

Whenever practical, I'd advise people to consult at least a couple of additional sources...just to "make sure" that you don't get "blindsided" by some wacko entry that hasn't yet been updated.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[coda]

Coincidentally i just brought this point up in a post. No, I am positive that a utopic society cannot be attained. We can get rid of the social problems that plague society, Which will hugely alleviate suffering and oppression, but things like illness, --chronic and terminal people will still have. People will still grow old and die and leave others behind who will will be depressed. Some people (quite a lot I believe) will still hate and be envious of others, even at equal economic and social standing-- as there will still be things that differ between people that one will want, that another has, such as higher intelligence level, more appealing personality, more attractive looks, better health,..... can we root that out? Would be nice.

A good indication of this is very wealthy people who live in a sort of plastic utopian world, who have everything and want for nothing and are some of the most miserable people in the world.

[Monty Cantsin]

Utopia is a Greek word meaning 'there is no such place'.

we can attain a form of society that does not exist now, but it wont be a Utopia.

Oscar Wilde once said something along the lines of if you have a map of where you want society to go you aim for utopia because why would you aim for anything less? But of course when humanity gets there they realise it’s not a utopia and see places to make improvements and aim for the new utopia. Of course he said it much more eloquently

[red_che]

Utopia? From the word itself, there's no such place.

Communism can be achieved, in fact, it is inevitable. However, it is not the communism described by Utopian socialists for they don't know how they can achieve their communist utopia.

But the communism described by Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and other communist revolutionaries and thinkers is the one that can be attained through social revolution by the masses of the proletarians, ending the exploitation and oppression of man by man and all sotrts of class distinctions and antagonisms.

[drain.you]

If Utopia means 'there is no such place' then of course we can't achieve it. Pretty sure we can make a kick-ass communist society though :D

[Red Leader]

A perfect society can and will be achieved. It all depends on what you consider perfect. If the utopia you think of means no conflict or disagreement, then that is not possible. Without theses things, there would be no advancements or creativity or anything really exciting in society. A perfect society, such as (insert favorite left wing ideology here) would have these things, however at the end of the day it wont mean you will go bankrupt or starve to death or be shot or be forced to resort to stealing like it is now and all over the world.

[Rawthentic]

thanks for the commenst guys, I finally got that cleard up. And yes, let us work for a much better and humane society. :rolleyes:

[Simotix]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 04:20 AM
Communism can be achieved, in fact, it is inevitable.
It is? 0_o

[Niemand]

Originally posted by exoity+Nov 24 2005, 07:20 PM--> (exoity @ Nov 24 2005, 07:20 PM)
[email protected] 23 2005, 04:20 AM
Communism can be achieved, in fact, it is inevitable.
It is? 0_o [/b]
Think about it, in Capitalism the working class is oppressed and the rich are the only ones who benefit from it. And when there is Capitalist over-production you get the Great Depression. The workers will always grow agitated and will lead a Socialist revolution, it is inevitable. Captialism is so severly flawed that it will be its own downfall.

[Organic Revolution]

utopia? why not. why not fight for the perfect soiciety built of of lovers and freinds, of general welfare for each other? it is possible if we keep it in our hearts and fight for it constantly, but it is not possible if you think it would be a good but unatainable goal.

[wet blanket]

Originally posted by Erik The Communist+Nov 24 2005, 07:52 PM--> (Erik The Communist @ Nov 24 2005, 07:52 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 07:20 PM

[email protected] 23 2005, 04:20 AM
Communism can be achieved, in fact, it is inevitable.
It is? 0_o
Think about it, in Capitalism the working class is oppressed and the rich are the only ones who benefit from it. And when there is Capitalist over-production you get the Great Depression. The workers will always grow agitated and will lead a Socialist revolution, it is inevitable. Captialism is so severly flawed that it will be its own downfall. [/b]
We've already had a great depression(several of them, actually) and the was no revolution. What we got out of that was Keynesianism.
To ignore the possibility of a descent into fascism/totalitarianism and assume the "inevitability" of a 'glorious new communist tomorrow' is stupid and counter-revolutionary.

[red_che]

We've already had a great depression(several of them, actually) and the was no revolution. What we got out of that was Keynesianism.


What do you think of the Paris commune, the October 1917 Russia, the 1949 China, the Vietnam war, the Korean war? Were these not revolutions?

Were these not advancement of the proletarian revolution?


To ignore the possibility of a descent into fascism/totalitarianism and assume the "inevitability" of a 'glorious new communist tomorrow' is stupid and counter-revolutionary.

Who said we ignored? We know very well that Capitalists/Imperialists are fascists. That is why there are these revolutionary movements to achieve communism. We are not just sitting here and waiting for things to happen on their own. <_<

[warnerraider]

We know very well that Capitalists/Imperialists are fascists.

So because I believe that the capitalist society could, under certain situations, yield the best results? CIA.gov factbook info:

China&#39;s unemployment/underemployment = 20%, 9.1% illiterate, Life expectancy is 72.27 years, 24.18 infant deaths per 1000

By contrast, the U.S. has an unemployment rate at 5.5%, 3% illiterate, life expectancy is 77.71 years, and the infant mortality rate is 6.5 deaths per 1000.

I&#39;m not saying this is a great society, America&#39;s system of government is fucked. But honestly, I think that to say that capitalism can lead only to a fascist state is narrow-minded and makes you no better than the bigots who protest Matt Shepard&#39;s funeral with "god hates fags" signs.

That said, we are moving to a psychological fascist society because of the select few running this country and the sheer circumstance that they happen to be fascists. But to label every single capitalist, including myself, is blatantly idiotic.


Communism is not inevitable. What is inevitable is a cycle that continues until the race of men dies out due to our own innate evil that destroys us all. Governments will be overthrown again and again with the cries of the coming of a new age in which the people will be freer than ever, and yet again that government will eventually become so corrupt as to implode and be overthrown.

Can utopia exist? absolutely not. Humans are too evil. To look to the form of government as the sole cause of societal problems is irresponsible, look at the people who support it, the ones who invented it, and the ones who will continue to sustain it: ourselves. Fix the human race, then talk to me about utopia.

[Martyr]

ask any cambodian if a utopia is possible

[Black Dagger]

ask any cambodian if a utopia is possible

What is that supposed to mean?

[Scars]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 4 2005, 05:12 AM

ask any cambodian if a utopia is possible

What is that supposed to mean?
Refering to the distaster that Democractic Kampuchea was, the Khmer Rouge are often described as trying to built an agarian utopia.

As has been said, Utopia is a reference to the Greek word &#39;ou-topos&#39; which means &#39;no place&#39;, but it is also a reference to teh Greek word &#39;eu-topos&#39; which means &#39;good place&#39;. Is a utopia possible? Probably not, there will always be some things wrong with the world- ultimate perfection is impossible because there is no absolute definition of what perfection is. However can the word be made a &#39;eu-topos&#39;? Yes, I believe it can.