No 10 rejects death penalty call

[drain.you]

No 10 rejects death penalty call

Prime Minister Tony Blair is still opposed to the death penalty, his official spokesman has insisted.

Ex-Met Police chief Lord Stevens called for the death penalty to be reinstated for people who kill police, following the killing of Pc Sharon Beshenivsky.

But Mr Blair's official spokesman said the government's view was unchanged.

Shadow home secretary David Davis, who has personally backed the death penalty in the past, said it was not the "right atmosphere" to make such judgements.

'Wrong timing'

Pc Beshenivsky was shot in Bradford when she answered a call to an armed robbery at a travel agency. Her colleague Pc Teresa Milburn, 37, was injured in the incident, but has since left hospital.

At the weekend Lord Stevens said in the News of the World that the "cold-blooded" murder of Pc Beshenivsky had "finally" changed his mind on the death penalty.


I remain sceptical that arming all police officers all of the time would make them safer
Charles Clarke

"Such an extreme act of pure evil can only be met by the most extreme of responses - and that can only be death," he told the paper.

However, the prime minister's official spokesman said: "The government's view is still against the death penalty - other people are entitled to their views."

Mr Davis, who has in the past called for the return of the death penalty for some pre-meditated and cold-blooded multiple murderers, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that although he was an admirer of Lord Stevens, "on this, however, I do not think he is right".

"This is not the right circumstances to make these judgements," he said.

"It is clearly a very emotional time - everybody is very shocked and upset by the hideous killing and wounding of these two police officers.

"I am not at all sure that this is the right atmosphere in which to make such a judgement."

EU membership

He said that if he became prime minister he would not try to reinstate the death penalty because it would not have the support of a majority of MPs.

He also warned that the worst thing about having the death penalty was making "a mistake".

Roger Knapman, leader of the UK Independence Party, said Britain could not reintroduce the death penalty because membership of the European Union precludes capital punishment.

"However horrific the crimes, there is no prospect of the death penalty being re-introduced in the UK unless we first leave the European Union." he said.

Mr Davis accused the government of failing to tackle the source of gun crime and particularly the illegal holding of firearms.

Dunblane

"One of the things that's very clear is the government is not doing enough in terms of its border control or inspection of imports, inspection of internet imports - the whole series of things which need to be done if we are going to bring this epidemic of gun crime under control."

He said gun crime had doubled to around 10-11,000 since 1996 when Thomas Hamilton killed 16 children and a teacher at Dunblane Primary School in Scotland.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke said the government was keen to learn any lessons from the Bradford shootings.

"My main priority is to ensure that guns no longer have a place on our streets and that armed gangs who terrorise innocent people are brought to justice," he said.

But he signalled his opposition to arming all police, citing evidence from other countries which suggested it encouraged criminals to carry guns.

"I remain sceptical that arming all police officers all of the time would make them safer," he said, writing in The Sun.

"Indeed, all the experience from other countries where the police carry firearms demonstrates that this only encourages the criminals to arm themselves and potentially to turn law enforcers' own weapons on to the police themselves."

Source: BBC News Website

[RedAnarchist]

Notice that he only wants it for cop killers. I hate police officers who consider themselves and their collegaues more important than the people.

Personally, i am against the death penalty. It is barbaric and harkens back to the bloodthirsty, primitive days of the cavemen.


Plus, there is a moratorium on the death penalty throughout Europe anyway.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 04:37 PM
Notice that he only wants it for cop killers. I hate police officers who consider themselves and their collegaues more important than the people.

Personally, i am against the death penalty. It is barbaric and harkens back to the bloodthirsty, primitive days of the cavemen.
No, it doesn't. The death penalty and justice in general is not (or should not) be about simple minded revenge. The death penalty is a means to permanently remove those who have shown themselves to be a danger to the lives of others.

[TheComrade]

The death penalty is wrong - it solves nothing and proves we are too mindless to resolve the issues with words (war is the same.) It doesn't deter people from commiting crimes - just look at America. Violence is a form of supression - it solves nothing.

[tatu]

Ex-Met Police chief Lord Stevens called for the death penalty to be reinstated for people who kill police, following the killing of Pc Sharon Beshenivsky.

Shadow home secretary David Davis, who has personally backed the death penalty in the past, said it was not the "right atmosphere" to make such judgements.

Too right it's not the "right atmosphere" in which to decide whether or not they should reinstate the death penalty. And as they mentioned in the BBC article, the return of the death penalty would mean no entry to the EU - Tony Blair is desperate to enter Britain into the EU.
I am completely against the death penalty.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 06:20 PM

Ex-Met Police chief Lord Stevens called for the death penalty to be reinstated for people who kill police, following the killing of Pc Sharon Beshenivsky.

Shadow home secretary David Davis, who has personally backed the death penalty in the past, said it was not the "right atmosphere" to make such judgements.

Too right it's not the "right atmosphere" in which to decide whether or not they should reinstate the death penalty. And as they mentioned in the BBC article, the return of the death penalty would mean no entry to the EU - Tony Blair is desperate to enter Britain into the EU.
I am completely against the death penalty.
Britain has been a EU/EC member since 1973.

[tatu]

True, but Britain is yet to comply fully with EU demands such as accepting the currency, new constitution (which has been put on hold until spring 2006) etc.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The death penalty is wrong - it solves nothing and proves we are too mindless to resolve the issues with words (war is the same.)

The death penalty does solve something - it stops the killer from ever killing again. A quick and painless execution is far more humane than the "death by inches" one experiences while in prison.

As to war, when one is attacked, they either defend themselves or they are defeated.

"talking terms" instead of fighting is more commonly known as surrendering.

[VonClausewitz]

Like NoXion said, the death penalty is far more humane than a long slow death in a prison.

Plus, on the economic side, it's a lot cheaper than housing in comfort thousands of people who aren't ever going to contribute to society again, and would never have anyway.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Just to make it clear, while I don't object to the death penalty in principle, I would be opposed to it's enactment in current society due to the corrupting nature of capitalism.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 10:37 AM
Notice that he only wants it for cop killers. I hate police officers who consider themselves and their collegaues more important than the people.

Personally, i am against the death penalty. It is barbaric and harkens back to the bloodthirsty, primitive days of the cavemen.


Plus, there is a moratorium on the death penalty throughout Europe anyway.
Personally I'm for the death penalty but only if theres hard evidence and in cases of murder and rape.

Offhand though you mentioned you hated cops who think they're above everyone, well what do you think of cops that aren't corrupt and actually do their jobs correctly? Just wondering.

[drain.you]

I don't anyone deserves to die. And I certainly don't believe that anyone should have the authority to kill someone, even if that person has killed many.
Saying that, murders/rapists/etc shouldn't be allowed to wander the streets free and neither should they be housed with luxury facilities in prison. They should be put into labour camps and produce something for society, same for small time criminals and once their time is up, re-introduced them into society, if that is judged possible.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I don't anyone deserves to die. And I certainly don't believe that anyone should have the authority to kill someone, even if that person has killed many.

No one person should have the right decide the fate of one person, but if the community/society decides that such people are not welcome anymore, so be it.


Saying that, murders/rapists/etc shouldn't be allowed to wander the streets free and neither should they be housed with luxury facilities in prison. They should be put into labour camps and produce something for society, same for small time criminals and once their time is up, re-introduced them into society, if that is judged possible.

Wow, forced labour camps (Almost certain to be brutal shitholes) that'll need gaurds. What do you imagine looking after caged humans does to one's perception?
Plus there&#39;s the possibility of releasing known killers into society <_<

[drain.you]

Fine, don&#39;t release them from the camps. Looking after caged animals? I&#39;m pretty sure prisons are the same, all I ask is that they do something productive for society rather than just waste the tax payers money by sitting on their arses watching tv.
&#39; if the community/society decides that such people are not welcome anymore&#39; then lock them up and make them work.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Why? it&#39;s cheaper and more humane to just execute them.

[drain.you]

Because if they have committed a crime then make them pay, let them spend years knowing what they have done and how society rejects them. Killing people gives them an easy escape and like I said, I don&#39;t think anyone deserves to die.
And cheaper? They can be put to work in industries and pay for their own food and prison quarters with the work they do.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 01:01 AM
Plus, on the economic side, it&#39;s a lot cheaper than housing in comfort thousands of people who aren&#39;t ever going to contribute to society again, and would never have anyway.
Plenty of prisoners manage to turn their lives around and do contribute to society, even from prison.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Because if they have committed a crime then make them pay, let them spend years knowing what they have done and how society rejects them.

Justice isn&#39;t about revenge. Justice is about making criminals pay their debt to society, which in the case of murder is their own life.


Killing people gives them an easy escape and like I said, I don&#39;t think anyone deserves to die.

There&#39;s no point to making the criminal feel like shit by torturing them. They should simply be prevented from ever killing again, and the best way to do that is to end the life of the criminal.

Why do you feel more comfortable with torture than with death? Have you even read what it&#39;s like in a prison or worse, a forced labour camp?


And cheaper? They can be put to work in industries and pay for their own food and prison quarters with the work they do.

No thanks. Goods made by slaves tend to be utter crap. Not to mention the fact that institutionalised slavery is utterly barbaric.

[Clutch]

In Australia, we abolished the death penalty for a good reason: the courts fuck up and they fuck up all to often, usually sending innocent people to the gallows.

The following is a short story about the last man to hang in Australia, Ronald Ryan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_ryan

[VonClausewitz]

Plenty of prisoners manage to turn their lives around and do contribute to society, even from prison.

I didn&#39;t mean execute prisoners en masse, just the lowest of the low - murderers, rapists, paedophiles. I&#39;m sure there be a statistic somewhere that shows these sorts of people to be on average, highly likely to re-offend.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Justice is not perfect, there&#39;s always the chance of "frying" the wrong guy. Keep that in mind.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Is potentially mentally scarring someone for life considered cruel?

[drain.you]

Why do you feel more comfortable with torture than with death?
I never meant for my views to come across like that. I just don&#39;t see the point in killing people especially when they can be of some use to society.

[bolshevik butcher]

Killing people is wrong, and the power will always be abused to push a political agenda and there will always be accidental mistakes, false convictions.

Torture should also be outlawed, people will convince to anything under torture if they think it will keep them out of further harms way. I dont actaully see the benifit of a lot of information extracted under torture as there must be the danger of people making things up if they think it will prevent anymore pain.

[Carlos Fonseca acolyte]

I hate when people try to justify the death penalty by saying that they would rather be executed than staying in prison for the rest of their lives. Okay, you would rather be executed but there are many of us that would rather live. Look at the case of Tookie Williams in California. He is struggling to get Schwarzenegger to commute his sentence to life.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 03:02 AM
Because if they have committed a crime then make them pay, let them spend years knowing what they have done and how society rejects them. Killing people gives them an easy escape and like I said, I don&#39;t think anyone deserves to die.
And cheaper? They can be put to work in industries and pay for their own food and prison quarters with the work they do.
Yeah the death penalty&#39;ll get the point across. You have one of two choices in that case, A. don&#39;t get caught (which is easier said then done) or B. Think really fucking hard before you do something as horrible as rape or murder. Think death row as well. They&#39;ll be scared shitless and they&#39;ll know what they&#39;ve done before they&#39;re hung, shot, zapped, injected, or poisoned. Its not like they won&#39;t have a chance to think about what they did.

[guerrillero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:19 PM
The death penalty is wrong - it solves nothing and proves we are too mindless to resolve the issues with words (war is the same.) It doesn&#39;t deter people from commiting crimes - just look at America. Violence is a form of supression - it solves nothing.
If your mom, dad, brother, sister, husband or wife were brutally murdered, tortured and/or slaughtered would you not want them to get the death penalty?

[drain.you]

I think the idea of being dead is nicer than being alive.

[Tekun]

Its easy to say that no one deserves to die and that murderers or rapists should be spared, in theory

But reality is different, my experiences have shown me that some people do not deserve to live a nice comfortable life in prison

Why should we spare gang members that continue to kill in prison bkuz they&#39;re doing life and have nothing to lose??
Why should we let mass murderers live in relative comfort, with 3 meals a day, TV, and all the smokes u can have??
Why should society lock up rapists, paedophiles, and murderers for 5-25yrs and then let them go free so as to continue their life, as if nothing happened?

The idea is preposterous, any person that kills or rapes innocent people deserves to die
An eye for an eye

Now by this, I don&#39;t mean that I support America or any other cappitalists country&#39;s racist stance on the death penalty, in which Latino&#39;s and Blacks are more likely to be executed than whites

B4 executing people, their cases must be thouroughly examined by an impartial outside agency in order to avoid the execution of innocent people

But, the only way to combat people who have violence and crime in their genes is to execute them

Tookie Williams has changed in prison, as a matter of fact, he&#39;s done more good in prison than on the outside
But, what about justice? Should we disregard it just because he&#39;s helped some ppl
He killed innocent people without mercy
He has to pay for what he did to those he killed and their families
Though I sympathize with him, I believe that he knows that he has to pay for what he did, and all the hoo ha about him being spared is a ploy by anti death penalty advocates to abolish any sense of justice

The reason that murder and rape continue is because, criminals realize that killing someone will only get u 15-20, so the ends justify the means....
Im not saying the death penalty will solve humanity&#39;s problems, but it will deter a good amount of crime

[Dark Exodus]

The idea is preposterous, any person that kills or rapes innocent people deserves to die
An eye for an eye

How is killing a rapist an &#39;eye for an eye&#39;?

[bolshevik butcher]

Yeh, if that system were to be taken litreally, burglers would be stoalen from, rapist raped, and lots of other strange things so it seems a strange way to justify punishment.

[Janus]

The death penalty is an extreme form of punishment and therefore is subject to the same drawbacks. The major one being that punishment only suppresses behavior rather than teaching a more desirable behavior. If the punisher or the threat of punishment is removed, then the negative behavior is likely to occur again. Isn&#39;t the death penalty paradoxical as well? It conveys the notion that inflicting pain and murder is justified, therefore, sponsoring it rather than suppressing it. I believe that the alternative should be to try to steadily rehabilitate the prisoner back into society through education and work. Throught this they will be able to positively impact society through their work and learn the lessons needed for reintroduction into society. This method will make the most out of the taxpayer&#39;s money and serve to ease our conscience much better.

[WUOrevolt]

The Death Penalty is wrong, no matter what&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Dark [email protected] 24 2005, 04:42 PM

The idea is preposterous, any person that kills or rapes innocent people deserves to die
An eye for an eye

How is killing a rapist an &#39;eye for an eye&#39;?
Ur hurting an innocent person (maybe even a child), and many times the lenience in punishments pushes others to commit the crime

Just committing a crime (rape) of this magnitude deserves death

I mean think about it, if your child - brother - or sister were to raped or abused by some crazy phuk, wouldn&#39;t u wish death upon that person??

The abuse/rape of a person, causes more than just physical pain - it scars that person for life, that person is unable to live a normal life
And the rapist, continues to rape, because of the weakness in the justice system

Rape and murder should be the only crimes that the death penalty should be considered for



The psychology of crime, rape, murder - is just that psychology, based on assumptions and theory proposed by ppl who scrutinize and analyze crime from a distance

Yet, when you experience crime, psychology and all of its theories are worthless
You can study the "science" of crime analyze the hell out of it; but the reality is that rape and murder continue to occur because the punishments are not swift enough to deter and discourage future criminals

Once u experience crime comrades, you&#39;ll know what Im talking about

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 04:22 AM
The Death Penalty is wrong, no matter what&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
Please provide an argument as to why it is wrong rather than simply stating your subjective opinion and backing it up with too many exclamation marks.

[WUOrevolt]

Originally posted by NoXion+Nov 26 2005, 03:39 PM--> (NoXion @ Nov 26 2005, 03:39 PM)
[email protected] 26 2005, 04:22 AM
The Death Penalty is wrong, no matter what&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
Please provide an argument as to why it is wrong rather than simply stating your subjective opinion and backing it up with too many exclamation marks. [/b]
Murder is murder, no matter who does it. Too mnay innocent people have been executed. With the newly available technology scientists are now able to exonarate people who have been executed, saying they were actually innocent.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Murder is murder, no matter who does it.

Execution is not murder. If someone is wrongfully executed, then that is an unfortunate miscarriage of justice.


Too mnay innocent people have been executed.

This begs the question, how many is too many?


With the newly available technology scientists are now able to exonarate people who have been executed, saying they were actually innocent.

This also means that when someone is convicted on the basis of forensic evidence, the conviction is more likely to be correct.

[WUOrevolt]

So I assume you are pro death penalty


One wrongful execution is one too many

[WUOrevolt]

I suggest you read Live From Death Row by Mumia Abu-Jamal, NoXion.

[Guerrilla22]

I would be pro death penaly, if the US justice system wasn&#39;t so corrupt and racist. I can&#39;t speak for the justice systems any where else.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 06:12 PM
So I assume you are pro death penalty


One wrongful execution is one too many
That&#39;s because you&#39;re a moral coward who would rather have people rot in jail.


I suggest you read Live From Death Row by Mumia Abu-Jamal, NoXion.

The corruption of the US justice system is not a concern of mine.

[WUOrevolt]

Originally posted by NoXion+Nov 27 2005, 01:00 PM--> (NoXion @ Nov 27 2005, 01:00 PM)
[email protected] 26 2005, 06:12 PM
So I assume you are pro death penalty


One wrongful execution is one too many
That&#39;s because you&#39;re a moral coward who would rather have people rot in jail.


I suggest you read Live From Death Row by Mumia Abu-Jamal, NoXion.

The corruption of the US justice system is not a concern of mine. [/b]
I am a prison abolitionist, therefore I do not want people to rot in jail.

The corruption if the US justice system should be a concern for you, by educating yourself about it you may be able to change someting about it.