Lies And Propoganda About The DPRK

[donnie_middel1]

I have been reading alot of posts on this site and others for that matter that are promoting the idea that the DPRK has several issues, such as : human rights violations, poverty, dictatorship and oppression, these are all LIES AND PROPOGANDA aimed at winning support for a US led invasion, the ppl of the DPRK are not oppressed in anyway, they are free to do what will, inside of a standard korean law, the ppl love the Dear Leader And General Secratary Of the Korean Workers Party Kim Jong Il , and they love The Great Leader , Hero of the Revolution and eternal President Kim Il Sung. They do not live in poverty they are fed better then the children of the west, the DPRK has far superior technology then that of the imperialist nations, that is why america and other nations are so opposed to the DPRK, and ppl in the west believe the lies, they think that the satellite image from nasa showing the DPRK in blackness is real and that the ppl live in darkness, this is completely false, because its nothing more then america once again trying to find a way that they can " Liberate" the Korean ppl, and many ppl in this fourm , and others believe these lies, many socialists cannot stand the idea that the utopia they seek is already here, and that they are not welcome , and because it is here, they have nothing to protest for or complain about a lack of one, they now feel the need to slander the only true Utopia, in the hopes of provocating support for an american invasion, which they could protest against, and get attention , its time for true communists around the world to wake up, its time for us to support one another and not bash each other, its time for us to follow in the footsteps of the great Revolutionaries : Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Che, Mao, Kim Il Sung , Kim Jong Il , and we must follow the great ppls wars taking place in : Nepal, India, The Phillipines, Turkey, and yes we must even follow the revisionist Revolution in Colombia.

My Comrades it is time for us to go to the next level, this article was my personal veiw, and my Comrades we must not let our differances get in the way,

There are thousand of Members on this fourm, why do we only talk? why dont we as a group form a Party, why dont we as a group try to unite? its because the only ones who are doing anything are : Maoists, Stalinists, and yes even Anarchists.

We must Unite and we must Unite Now !!!!!

[herr_Nosferatu]

Here Here !!!

Fighters for a better world, UNITE!

[Stonewall]

North Korea is a hole, plain and simple. Do I want an invasion? Hell no.

[donnie_middel1]

North Korea is a hole, plain and simple[QUOTE]

and why do u think it is a whole? because u see it on CNN, or other imperialist media sources, u dont really know anything about the DPRK au dont know any ppl from there, u dont know ppl whove been there u just believe what america says

[bcbm]

I find it amusing that we can be criticized for believing "propaganda from the imperialists," when this guy is regurgitating propaganda straight from the DPRK. Please, source all of this information from something fairly neutral.

[donnie_middel1]

how about the south korean press, and the south korean government who have said openly that the situtation in the DPRK is not as bad as it is made out to be, i dont have it hyper linked because i saw it on south korean tv, from the site, http://wwitv.com

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 06:56 AM
how about the south korean press, and the south korean government who have said openly that the situtation in the DPRK is not as bad as it is made out to be, i dont have it hyper linked because i saw it on south korean tv, from the site, http://wwitv.com
You're probably right, it's not nearly as bad as the west portrays it to be. However, it's still a despotism. And as for being it being a utopia.. wow.

[tatu]

http://www.newworker.org/korea.htm

[Fidelbrand]

I would say that Cuba is being stigmatised by the Western capitalist media, but for N . Korea... NO.

As far as i remember:

1)Women in jails are raped, when they have babies, they are forced to work stressfully in order for the baby to be killed inside their body~
2)People who wish to flee to S.Korea or China , if caught and sent back , is severely tortured in prisons, and the whole family has to suffer because of this criminal.
3)Nuclear advancements........ but people are starving and dieing... 1 million people has died because of starving.
4)A N.Korean boy who fled to china is now studying in a Chinese Korean Schoool, he talked a lot about how people died eating tree trunks in the country-side.
5)Kim jong il jailed babies born in threes because his advisor told him that these triplets is a threat to his throne. A hospital is built in a rural area with 2 miles of the site heavily guarded by the military. These triplets are tortured and made crazy.... The UN documented this alleged human disaster in 1999.

I saw and hear all these from a documentary when i was in China (not a foe and even some kind of diplomatic friend of DPRK), these information are provided by a voluntary organization which comprised of N.Koreans who have eye-witnessed or expereinced these mis-happenings.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 11:21 AM
1)Women in jails are raped, when they have babies, they are forced to work stressfully in order for the baby to be killed inside their body~
2)People who wish to flee to S.Korea or China , if caught and sent back , is severely tortured in prisons, and the whole family has to suffer because of this criminal.
3)Nuclear advancements........ but people are starving and dieing... 1 million people has died because of starving.
4)A N.Korean boy who fled to china is now studying in a Chinese Korean Schoool, he talked a lot about how people died eating tree trunks in the country-side.
5)Kim jong il jailed babies born in threes because his advisor told him that these triplets is a threat to his throne. A hospital is built in a rural area with 2 miles of the site heavily guarded by the military. These triplets are tortured and made crazy.... The UN documented this alleged human disaster in 1999.

I saw and hear all these from a documentary when i was in China (not a foe and even some kind of diplomatic friend of DPRK), these information are provided by a voluntary organization which comprised of N.Koreans who have eye-witnessed or expereinced these mis-happenings.

Nuclear advancements........ but people are starving and dieing... 1 million people has died because of starving.
The famine from the mid-90s is over. The food situation is still negative, but there is no actual famine anymore. Also, you can't build nukes out of rice or potatoes, so I don't really see how this is a point against the DPRK.

All the other things you mentioned are rumours and hearsay, but I'd like to comment on this one:


Kim jong il jailed babies born in threes because his advisor told him that these triplets is a threat to his throne. A hospital is built in a rural area with 2 miles of the site heavily guarded by the military. These triplets are tortured and made crazy.... The UN documented this alleged human disaster in 1999.
Total lie. If you want to read something real about North Korean triplets, read this (http://soviet-empire.politicsforum.org/ussr/viewtopic.php?t=34457).

[Led Zeppelin]

Also, you can't build nukes out of rice or potatoes, so I don't really see how this is a point against the DPRK.


They could have used the capital which was required for the nukes to increase food production.

[Xvall]

these are all LIES AND PROPOGANDA aimed at winning support for a US led invasion

The US doesn't want to invade North Korea. Their reaction to the alleged nuclear programs is a testament to this. What function does the annexation of North Korea serve for the United States? None whatsoever.

[Fidelbrand]

Also, you can't build nukes out of rice or potatoes, so I don't really see how this is a point against the DPRK.

thinK of the fact that we don't live in a barter economy anymore. We use $ as a medium of exchange, and secondly, fund-transfers means "building nukes our of rice and potatoes" is absolutely possible.


All the other things you mentioned are rumours and hearsay, but I'd like to comment on this one

It's good to reject any negative, even when it is eye-witnessed, right?

I sympathsize your sense of solidarity in trying to cast away the "rumours" (in quotations) made on DPRK. But please note that ---> We can get no where if this conversation continues. And I have to say I "wish", and of course WANT DPRK to do better, as it is labelled as a socialist/communist country (those assholes don't know about their concept of Juche). Stimaticising DPRK do me no good, in fact, harm.


Total lie. If you want to read something real about North Korean triplets, read this (http://soviet-empire.politicsforum.org/ussr/viewtopic.php?t=34457).

I read what you gave me. thanks.
Lets say i'm neutral about this issue. But instead of painstakingly stand up for DPRK, will you give room in considering that DPRK and past socialist countries like to use single-highlighted stories or propaganda to hide their failures/mishappenings?

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Marxism-[email protected] 22 2005, 08:49 PM

Also, you can't build nukes out of rice or potatoes, so I don't really see how this is a point against the DPRK.


They could have used the capital which was required for the nukes to increase food production.
exactly.

M-L , what is your avatar about?

[Stonewall]

North Korea could have used capital wasted on defense [25% of GDP] to increase food production.

[YKTMX]

I'd like to see the Dear Leader hanging from a lampost.

:)

[Stonewall]

I want to see him riding the strip in Vegas in a Lexus LS, sipping a Starbucks Mocha and admiring Gap's latest fashion line. :huh:

[YKTMX]

He'd probably just use forced labour to 'recreate' Vegas outside Pyongyang, using all the DPRK's energy resources for the next decade in the process.

All in the name of 'socialism', obviously.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Fidelbrand+Nov 22 2005, 02:07 PM--> (Fidelbrand @ Nov 22 2005, 02:07 PM)
Marxism-[email protected] 22 2005, 08:49 PM

Also, you can't build nukes out of rice or potatoes, so I don't really see how this is a point against the DPRK.


They could have used the capital which was required for the nukes to increase food production.
exactly.

M-L , what is your avatar about? [/b]
His avatar shows the word "Allah" written in Arabic.

The cross means he rejects "Allah".

:)

[tatu]

North Korea violating "human rights"? Here's a page regarding "human rights" violations, from People's daily (Chinese press):

[Iron Bolshevik]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 04:59 PM
North Korea violating human rights? Here's a page regarding "human rights" violations, from People's daily (Chinese press):
Human rights are an abstraction and don't exist; the "violating human rights" argument against the DPRK (while mostly based on erroneous misinformation and idealogue lies) is futile and irrelevent.

[tatu]

Originally posted by Iron Bolshevik+Nov 22 2005, 05:02 PM--> (Iron Bolshevik @ Nov 22 2005, 05:02 PM)
[email protected] 22 2005, 04:59 PM
North Korea violating human rights? Here's a page regarding "human rights" violations, from People's daily (Chinese press):
Human rights are an abstraction and don't exist; the "violating human rights" argument against the DPRK (while mostly based on erroneous misinformation and idealogue lies) is futile and irrelevent. [/b]
Hence the quotation marks.

[Iron Bolshevik]

Originally posted by tatu+Nov 22 2005, 05:10 PM--> (tatu @ Nov 22 2005, 05:10 PM)
Originally posted by Iron [email protected] 22 2005, 05:02 PM

[email protected] 22 2005, 04:59 PM
North Korea violating human rights? Here's a page regarding "human rights" violations, from People's daily (Chinese press):
Human rights are an abstraction and don't exist; the "violating human rights" argument against the DPRK (while mostly based on erroneous misinformation and idealogue lies) is futile and irrelevent.
Hence the quotation marks. [/b]
I know I was simply supplementing.

[tatu]

Don't worry about it, comrade.

[Ouroboros]

Any communist leader who allows himself to live more luxurios life than leaders of the rich capitalist states like Sweden or Norway can be only a traitor. Majority of the communist presidents - including Mao and Kims - fall into this category without much doubt. And it is not their greatest sin.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Intifada+Nov 22 2005, 11:48 PM--> (Intifada @ Nov 22 2005, 11:48 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 02:07 PM

Marxism-[email protected] 22 2005, 08:49 PM

Also, you can't build nukes out of rice or potatoes, so I don't really see how this is a point against the DPRK.


They could have used the capital which was required for the nukes to increase food production.
exactly.

M-L , what is your avatar about?
His avatar shows the word "Allah" written in Arabic.

The cross means he rejects "Allah".

:) [/b]
thanks, Intifada. M-L also replied me through PM. :)

[donnie_middel1]

ML i find ur aviator very ignorant to the facts, u say u reject allah, which is fine everyone has his or her opinions but what about christ why dont u reject him, and if u do and reject all religion which iam sure u claim to do so, u are a hypocrit considering that atheism is a religion, it is a releigion based scientific evidence that is as proven as that of god evidence

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 08:03 PM
u are a hypocrit considering that atheism is a religion, it is a releigion based scientific evidence that is as proven as that of god evidence
No, atheism is NOT a religion. Scientific truths have a solid ground in empiricism; evidence. Science is backed up by the material world. You can't say the same for religion.

[donnie_middel1]

that are the typical lies that america promotes, u have never even seen where the dear leader lives etc, nor have i so neither one of us can comment on that

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 04:41 AM
that are the typical lies that america promotes, u have never even seen where the dear leader lives etc, nor have i so neither one of us can comment on that
The simple fact that they call him "dear leader" is enough to draw the conclusions that it is a rotten despotism. And I doubt the rationing applies to "dear leader".

[donnie_middel1]

there are no scientific evidence for there claims non , the big bang theory, no proof, and yes atheism is a religion a religion based on the rejection of god

[donnie_middel1]

The simple fact that they call him "dear leader" is enough to draw the conclusions that it is a rotten despotism. And I doubt the rationing applies to "dear leader". [QUOTE]


They call him dear leader, well i should say we call him dear leader, because he has always been there for the ppl, he has never led them wrong, and he is the compassionate human leader in our time, the ppl love him thats why they CHOOSE to call him that, he is the Dear Leader , Chairman of the korean workers party, Secratary of the Armed Forces, And preserver Of the Revolution, Kim Jong Il

[kurt]

there are no scientific evidence for there claims non , the big bang theory, no proof, and yes atheism is a religion a religion based on the rejection of god

Scientists have not claimed the big bang theory to be true. That's why it's called a theory. We take empirical evidence (expansion of the universe, when it started, etc), and create a theory from this evidence. It's not proven, but it has more evidence than any religion has.

Once again, atheism is NOT a religion. Atheists reject "supernatural" explanations for things that can be explained with evidence from the material world. We are not only rejecting god, but other supernatural entities. Science is not a religion, we question "bad" science all the time, in order to improve our understanding of the material world.


They call him dear leader, well i should say we call him dear leader, because he has always been there for the ppl, he has never led them wrong, and he is the compassionate human leader in our time, the ppl love him thats why they CHOOSE to call him that, he is the Dear Leader , Chairman of the korean workers party, Secratary of the Armed Forces, And preserver Of the Revolution, Kim Jong Il

You can spew all the bullshit about him you want, but he's still a despot. I don't know why you even bother us with this reactionary crap.

[Fidelbrand]

His father is the "great leader" , i think that makes some sense.

But the son is called the "dear leader" , nothing relate to efficient and effective leadership, but instead, a sense of "closeness" is used to prop him up.

Sounds like a monarchy to me,.... and the dear prankster is deciding to pass his position to one of his sons.

:D

[Fidelbrand]

because he has always been there for the ppl

oh i see. :lol:


he has never led them wrong

Yeh, Juche is incredible and they all live so well, mate. ;)


he is the compassionate human leader in our time

Now this is getting worse than a joke.


the ppl love him thats why they CHOOSE to call him that, he is the Dear Leader

i don't really think so. Authoritarian states have their way to propaganda and to start slogans.


he is the Dear Leader , Chairman of the korean workers party, Secratary of the Armed Forces, And preserver Of the Revolution, Kim Jong Il

NOW, THAT'S THE PROBLEM !!! :D

Conclusion: From your political compass score, I know you are an Authoritarian , and that's why you prop up Kim to feed your ego. ... hoping that people would support him. But ..... :D

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

This thread has shocked me. First, someone spouts off obvious propaganda...

Then, someone denies the existance of "human rights":


Originally posted by Iron Bolshevik - utter waste of carbon+--> (Iron Bolshevik - utter waste of carbon)Human rights are an abstraction and don't exist;[/b]


tatu - who should really eat a gun barrel
Hence the quotation marks.

Vile puke-drinking shit eating scum like this are the reason why atrocities happen. I hope you die slow, painful and horrific deaths you filthy scraps of human waste matter :angry: :angry:

And this is followed by some more fellating of Kim's shrivelled cheesy dick. It's a wonder you Kimlovers can breathe with all that shit on your nose!

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/9454/finger2ws.gif Fuck fascism. Especially if it's been wrapped in a red flag!

PS: In case you diarrhea chugging lumps of filth try to say, no I wouldn't support a US invasion. But I sure wouldn't support that moral eunuch Kim Jong Il either.

[Led Zeppelin]

ML i find ur aviator very ignorant to the facts, u say u reject allah, which is fine everyone has his or her opinions but what about christ why dont u reject him, and if u do and reject all religion which iam sure u claim to do so, u are a hypocrit considering that atheism is a religion, it is a releigion based scientific evidence that is as proven as that of god evidence


:lol: You are hilarious.

Atheism is not a religion, it is the lack thereof, what kind of Communist are you anyway? Are you even Communist or just a kid who has wet dreams about dictatorships?

[tatu]

A report of a NCPB (New Communist Party of Britain) delegation to the DPRK (2001):

http://www.geocities.com/ncpcentral/pastimes.html

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by NoXion+Nov 23 2005, 07:42 AM--> (NoXion @ Nov 23 2005, 07:42 AM) This thread has shocked me. First, someone spouts off obvious propaganda...

Then, someone denies the existance of "human rights":


Originally posted by Iron Bolshevik - utter waste of [email protected]
Human rights are an abstraction and don't exist;


tatu - who should really eat a gun barrel
Hence the quotation marks.

Vile puke-drinking shit eating scum like this are the reason why atrocities happen. I hope you die slow, painful and horrific deaths you filthy scraps of human waste matter :angry: :angry:

And this is followed by some more fellating of Kim's shrivelled cheesy dick. It's a wonder you Kimlovers can breathe with all that shit on your nose!

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/9454/finger2ws.gif Fuck fascism. Especially if it's been wrapped in a red flag!

PS: In case you diarrhea chugging lumps of filth try to say, no I wouldn't support a US invasion. But I sure wouldn't support that moral eunuch Kim Jong Il either. [/b]
LMAO :lol:


They call him dear leader, well i should say we call him dear leader, because he has always been there for the ppl, he has never led them wrong, and he is the compassionate human leader in our time, the ppl love him thats why they CHOOSE to call him that, he is the Dear Leader , Chairman of the korean workers party, Secratary of the Armed Forces, And preserver Of the Revolution, Kim Jong Il

You are the most seriously misguided person i have ever seen post here, i would even go as far to say you are more misguided than those cappies in OI, you have no right to call your self a communist because you know nothing. Kim Jong Il is megalomaniac who has done nothing for his people but oppress, kill and tourture them.


atheism is a religion a religion based on the rejection of god

Atheism is not a religion it is just anti- theology. and based on your logic anything that rejects god is a religion?


u have never even seen where the dear leader lives etc, nor have i so neither one of us can comment on that

I have never seen any other planet nor have i seen America with my own eyes doesnt mean they are not there or that they are any different from what ive heard.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by donnie_middel1+Nov 23 2005, 05:15 AM--> (donnie_middel1 @ Nov 23 2005, 05:15 AM) there are no scientific evidence for there claims non , the big bang theory, no proof, and yes atheism is a religion a religion based on the rejection of god [/b]
Honestly, I know trees which are actually smarter than you.


the ppl of the DPRK are not oppressed in anyway, they are free to do what will, inside of a standard korean law,

HAHAHA


the ppl love the Dear Leader And General Secratary Of the Korean Workers Party Kim Jong Il , and they love The Great Leader , Hero of the Revolution and eternal President Kim Il Sung.

If the "Dear Leader" is so good how come you don't live there? Or, to be more accurate, how do you know about his "greatness" if you don't live there?


the DPRK has far superior technology then that of the imperialist nations

If you believe that, you need a new brain.


they think that the satellite image from nasa showing the DPRK in blackness is real and that the ppl live in darkness, this is completely false, because its nothing more then america once again trying to find a way that they can " Liberate" the Korean ppl,

Yeah sure, whatever you say :rolleyes:


many socialists cannot stand the idea that the utopia they seek is already here, and that they are not welcome , and because it is here, they have nothing to protest for or complain about a lack of one, they now feel the need to slander the only true Utopia,

Yeah, what a beautiful utopia, a pathetic monarchy in absolute poverty, completely isolated from the world, without any attempts to move forward into communism.


in the hopes of provocating support for an american invasion, which they could protest against, and get attention ,

"America" will not invade North Korea if North Korea has nukes. They're not that stupid. Plus there's nothing interesting in North Korea and its position is useless as in the case of Iraq.


this article was my personal veiw,

That wasn't even an "article", just some propaganda you got from them.


ML
Are you even Communist or just a kid who has wet dreams about dictatorships?

Everyone knows the answer to that, d'uh...

[Matty_UK]

Originally posted by NoXion+Nov 23 2005, 07:42 AM--> (NoXion @ Nov 23 2005, 07:42 AM) This thread has shocked me. First, someone spouts off obvious propaganda...

Then, someone denies the existance of "human rights":


Originally posted by Iron Bolshevik - utter waste of [email protected]
Human rights are an abstraction and don't exist;


tatu - who should really eat a gun barrel
Hence the quotation marks.

Vile puke-drinking shit eating scum like this are the reason why atrocities happen. I hope you die slow, painful and horrific deaths you filthy scraps of human waste matter :angry: :angry:

And this is followed by some more fellating of Kim's shrivelled cheesy dick. It's a wonder you Kimlovers can breathe with all that shit on your nose!

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/9454/finger2ws.gif Fuck fascism. Especially if it's been wrapped in a red flag!

PS: In case you diarrhea chugging lumps of filth try to say, no I wouldn't support a US invasion. But I sure wouldn't support that moral eunuch Kim Jong Il either. [/b]
Right on comrade!

[tatu]

Originally posted by NoXion+Nov 23 2005, 07:42 AM--> (NoXion @ Nov 23 2005, 07:42 AM)This thread has shocked me. First, someone spouts off obvious propaganda...

Then, someone denies the existance of "human rights":


Originally posted by Iron Bolshevik - utter waste of [email protected]
Human rights are an abstraction and don't exist;


tatu - who should really eat a gun barrel
Hence the quotation marks.

Vile puke-drinking shit eating scum like this are the reason why atrocities happen. I hope you die slow, painful and horrific deaths you filthy scraps of human waste matter :angry: :angry:

And this is followed by some more fellating of Kim's shrivelled cheesy dick. It's a wonder you Kimlovers can breathe with all that shit on your nose!

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/9454/finger2ws.gif Fuck fascism. Especially if it's been wrapped in a red flag!

PS: In case you diarrhea chugging lumps of filth try to say, no I wouldn't support a US invasion. But I sure wouldn't support that moral eunuch Kim Jong Il either.[/b]
What rights does a human have in this day and age? The right to be a fascist? The right to hold his breath until his lungs pop? The right to erect a picket fence?

Real, genuine human rights DO NOT EXIST!

“the so-called rights of man ... are only the rights of the member of civil society, that is, of egoistic man, man separated from other men and from the community." - Marx

Human rights – the right to property, freedom of religion, etc., the rights which guarantee the concrete, real human being in their occupation, their beliefs, etc. – but founded on the separation of man from man, not on the relations or community of people, – the foundation of bourgeois political economy.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by tatu+Nov 23 2005, 12:51 PM--> (tatu @ Nov 23 2005, 12:51 PM) What rights does a human have in this day and age? The right to be a fascist? The right to hold his breath until his lungs pop? The right to erect a picket fence?

Real, genuine human rights DO NOT EXIST!

“the so-called rights of man ... are only the rights of the member of civil society, that is, of egoistic man, man separated from other men and from the community." - Marx

Human rights – the right to property, freedom of religion, etc., the rights which guarantee the concrete, real human being in their occupation, their beliefs, etc. – but founded on the separation of man from man, not on the relations or community of people, – the foundation of bourgeois political economy. [/b]

Wikipedia
Within particular states, "human rights" refer to safeguards for the individual against arbitrary use of power by the government regarding 1) the well being of individuals, 2) the freedom and autonomy of individuals, and 3) the representation of the human interest in government. These rights commonly include the right to life, the right to an adequate standard of living, freedom from torture and other mistreatment, freedom of expression, freedom of movement, the right to self-determination, the right to education, and the right to participation in cultural and political life. These norms are based on the legal and political traditions of United Nations member states and are incorporated into international human rights instruments (see below).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

What rights does a human have in this day and age? The right to be a fascist? The right to hold his breath until his lungs pop? The right to erect a picket fence?

How about the right to choose not to lick the anus of some piece of shit dictator with a messiah complex? Capitalist society has it's problems but it's a fucking paradise compared to Kimland, where no one criticises the Dear Leader *spit* and gets away with it? Or do you conveniently forget about all those people publicly criticising their leaders outside Kim's personal playground?


Real, genuine human rights DO NOT EXIST!

Not as solid objects, but neither does Juche by that standard. Most people who aren't members of cultish, fascistic cliques agree that Human Rights are a good idea.

It is truly unfortunate that some do not respect Human Rights, but it is far, far better to encourage their adherence than dismiss them... I would suspect that a world in which the right to life, freedom from torture and degrading treatment and all having equality before the law would be a better one than a world where such rights are not even recognised.

Don't you?


“the so-called rights of man ... are only the rights of the member of civil society, that is, of egoistic man, man separated from other men and from the community." - Marx

Unlike spineless little shits like you, I regard Marx as a human being and not a fucking messiah whose every word is gospel truth. But I suppose such a notion would be impossible for a reactionary hatfucker like you to understand.


Human rights – the right to property, freedom of religion, etc., the rights which guarantee the concrete, real human being in their occupation, their beliefs, etc. – but founded on the separation of man from man, not on the relations or community of people, – the foundation of bourgeois political economy.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights as drawn up by the UN is not perfect, of course, and I don't think any such document will be.

But it's a damn good idea.

[Master Che]

Originally posted by NoXion+Nov 23 2005, 07:42 AM--> (NoXion @ Nov 23 2005, 07:42 AM) This thread has shocked me. First, someone spouts off obvious propaganda...

Then, someone denies the existance of "human rights":


Originally posted by Iron Bolshevik - utter waste of [email protected]
Human rights are an abstraction and don't exist;


tatu - who should really eat a gun barrel
Hence the quotation marks.

Vile puke-drinking shit eating scum like this are the reason why atrocities happen. I hope you die slow, painful and horrific deaths you filthy scraps of human waste matter :angry: :angry:

And this is followed by some more fellating of Kim's shrivelled cheesy dick. It's a wonder you Kimlovers can breathe with all that shit on your nose!

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/9454/finger2ws.gif Fuck fascism. Especially if it's been wrapped in a red flag!

PS: In case you diarrhea chugging lumps of filth try to say, no I wouldn't support a US invasion. But I sure wouldn't support that moral eunuch Kim Jong Il either. [/b]
Agreed :D . Now i know i can flame idiots on this forum. Thanks!

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by Iron Bolshevik+Nov 22 2005, 05:02 PM--> (Iron Bolshevik @ Nov 22 2005, 05:02 PM)
[email protected] 22 2005, 04:59 PM
North Korea violating human rights? Here's a page regarding "human rights" violations, from People's daily (Chinese press):
Human rights are an abstraction and don't exist; the "violating human rights" argument against the DPRK (while mostly based on erroneous misinformation and idealogue lies) is futile and irrelevent. [/b]
That's an extremely strange way to sidestep the issue. Regardless of what you say, there are a great deal of humans who believe they and their fellows have certain rights that cannot be taken away from them.

[tatu]

Oh, how easy some of you find it to twist words completely out of context!

I believe in human rights, but not bourgeois human rights! Oh, okay, let's perpetuate the false lies of bourgeois human rights, rights that only seek to consolidate the will and power of the upper crusts!

You attack Korea’s leaders like you’ve known them personally, like you have first hand proof of the so-called atrocities that you and bourgeois press people assign to Korea’s revolutionary heroes. You spit on all those revolutionary peoples who fought the imperialists, you spit on the revolutionary peoples who have built the country into what it is today.

Sound, fella, Flame me! Let free speech reign down!

[Fidelbrand]

tatu,

I think we are talking about the "dear leader" not the "great leader", so don't say that we are attacking Korean LeaderS.

We won't choose to "spit on all those revolutionary peoples who fought the imperialists" unless those so-called "revolutionary peoples... built the country into" a shit hole. :D

Many of us are skeptical and even detest the West's media in stagmatizing socialist countires. But for Kim's little monarchy going on up there in the north, .... things are rather apparent.

Honestly, I won't fart if the leader lives a good life if he can manage his people well. This is my prime concern.

[18tir]

There's nothing socialist about Kim Jong-il's personal fiefdom. You can't even call it a degenerated workers state. It's really nothing less than a totalitarian nightmare. Look at the facts; 200,000 political prisoners, total censorship, no freedoms, no democratic institutions, all power is concentrated in one man, personality cult, most people live in extreme poverty, 2 million died from 90s famine etc. etc. Rather than spending money on feeding, clothing and providing medicine for the people (like in Cuba), he spends it on his lavish lifestyle and on his precious military which he needs to keep the people frightened. What a joke.

[DPRK Soldier]

[QUOTE]There's nothing socialist about Kim Jong-il's personal fiefdom. You can't even call it a degenerated workers state. It's really nothing less than a totalitarian nightmare. Look at the facts; 200,000 political prisoners, total censorship, no freedoms, no democratic institutions, all power is concentrated in one man, personality cult, most people live in extreme poverty, 2 million died from 90s famine etc. etc. Rather than spending money on feeding, clothing and providing medicine for the people (like in Cuba), he spends it on his lavish lifestyle and on his precious military which he needs to keep the people frightened. What a joke. [QUOTE]




How Dare u make these False allegations, where do u get ur information? CNN? there all lies, there is not 200 000 prisoners, nor did 2 million ppl die from famine, u r nothing but a capitalist puppet aimed at destroying the very socialist DPRK, simply because u cannot be apart of the Glorious nationm So until u get the facts Do not try to spread lies aimed at destabilizing fellow KFA members

[kurt]

Originally posted by DPRK [email protected] 24 2005, 05:16 AM
How Dare u make these False allegations, where do u get ur information? CNN? there all lies, there is not 200 000 prisoners, nor did 2 million ppl die from famine, u r nothing but a capitalist puppet aimed at destroying the very socialist DPRK, simply because u cannot be apart of the Glorious nationm So until u get the facts Do not try to spread lies aimed at destabilizing fellow KFA members
You were restricted for a reason.. why bother making a new account and then make it BLATANTLY obvious that it's you.

[DPRK Soldier]

and why was i restricted i might ask? because i talk abou the truth?

[Fidelbrand]

How Dare u make these False allegations

How dare we???? Why can't we dare?? Kim or you little authoritarian supporter 4.10 will execute us or something?


CNN? there all lies

Yes, we don't know how to differentiate the truthfulness of bourgeois news ... :D


So until u get the facts Do not try to spread lies aimed at destabilizing fellow KFA members

i think it is your authoritarian wet dream you have that is being destabalised by us. Sleep well... and keep wet-dreaming, 4.10.


and why was i restricted i might ask? because i talk abou the truth?

Since Kim cannot be removed by his people, nor it is impossible that his son is the up and coming next leader of DPRK....... you were democratically voted to be "restricted" by the board members.

[DPRK Soldier]

lol u know whats funny, here i am, u cannot stop me, u keep banning i keep creating, u see, thats what makes me better then u, because u and all of the board members here are revisionist dogs who are controled by the capitalistic pigs, so u wanna restrict me then come on give me what u got, cause remember this i will never leave, and one last time, HOW DARE U INSULT THE GLORIOUS LEADER, U SHOULD BE SENT TO MOSCOW TO BE PUTINS PERSONAL *****, U FUCKING ASS RAPING DOG

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by DPRK [email protected] 24 2005, 02:25 PM
lol u know whats funny, here i am, u cannot stop me, u keep banning i keep creating, u see, thats what makes me better then u, because u and all of the board members here are revisionist dogs who are controled by the capitalistic pigs, so u wanna restrict me then come on give me what u got, cause remember this i will never leave, and one last time, HOW DARE U INSULT THE GLORIOUS LEADER, U SHOULD BE SENT TO MOSCOW TO BE PUTINS PERSONAL *****, U FUCKING ASS RAPING DOG
you are so naive... there's something call the i.p. ban in this world (well, the hermit kingdom in DPRK might not know about this.)

The person in your avatar is the ultimate ass raping dog.
Until you get things straight, and beg for your return, our board will not welcome you Stalinist-kiddies.

[Wanted Man]

Let me make clear that I completely distance myself from the naive dogmatist donnie_middel, and anything he says here. I'm not sure whether he got restricted for simply defending the DPRK(which someone here did propose, but then again he was being a little *****), but I hope this forum is above that.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 03:01 PM
Let me make clear that I completely distance myself from the naive dogmatist donnie_middel, and anything he says here. I'm not sure whether he got restricted for simply defending the DPRK(which someone here did propose, but then again he was being a little *****), but I hope this forum is above that.
In my opinion, I think you appear and in fact provided some rational comments as regards to the DPRK. I don't think you are close to any trouble.

He was not simply Banned for defending DRPK. He was flaming, warned twice for homophobia, and he defied and mocked our forum's rules and effeciency.

[18tir]

DPRK Soldier


How Dare u make these False allegations, where do u get ur information? CNN? there all lies, there is not 200 000 prisoners, nor did 2 million ppl die from famine, u r nothing but a capitalist puppet aimed at destroying the very socialist DPRK, simply because u cannot be apart of the Glorious nationm So until u get the facts Do not try to spread lies aimed at destabilizing fellow KFA members

You want sources? Here they are. By the way, this is from a socialist website, not CNN and it was written in 1999.

"Up to two million people have died since 1995 directly as a result of the ongoing famine, according to various estimates. Last year the US Bureau of the Census suggested a figure of more than one million while the South Korean intelligence agency puts the death toll higher--at 500,000 a year for the last four years. The North Korean regime has repeatedly denied that famine has caused such a large number of deaths but has provided no official statistics of its own."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/apr1999/kor-a07.shtml

As for the 200,000 political prisoners...

"Amnesty International and other human rights organizations accuse North Korea of having one of the worst human rights records of any nation, severely restricting most freedoms, including freedom of speech and freedom of movement, both inside the country and abroad.

Japanese television aired what it said was footage of a prison camp. The U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea believes these camps hold between 150,000 and 200,000 inmates, and published a defector statement that pregnant women inside these camps reputedly either have forced abortions or the newborn child is killed"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_korea

[tatu]

What? A Trotskyite web site, that has echoed second–hand information from the US Bureau of the Census? Ha! And here we have an American organisation that dares to comment on the “Human rights” violations of other countries! America has the world's highest incarceration rate, and has been accused of holding terror suspects in secret CIA prisons, in Europe.

More than 5.6 million Americans are in prison or have served time there. That's 1 in 37 adults living in the United States, the highest incarceration level in the world.

http://english.people.com.cn/200503/03/eng...303_175406.html (http://english.people.com.cn/200503/03/eng20050303_175406.html)

[Fidelbrand]

Sucessors of the Hermit kingdom, well i see a lot of potential in them, especially the elder son, don't you? :D

Elder son
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c8/Kimjongnam.jpg/240px-Kimjongnam.jpg

Younger son
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/Kim_Jong-chul.jpg/190px-Kim_Jong-chul.jpg

It is reported recently that the 2nd son will be the commander, as chosen by the "dear leader":
LINK. (http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200509/200509200033.html)

[Tekun]

Authoritarians... :rolleyes:

A key sign that the North is a dictatorship, is the fact that its calendar is based on Juche and its innovator
Meaning that Kim Ill Sung's birthdate is regarded as year 1, and so on - not only does this factor sound irrational but it also resembles that of a religious institution

Not only that, but Kim Ill Sung is regarded as the "eternal president"
This reject communism's classless society by one man remaining above everyone forever
In fact, the state ignored everything that Marxism stands for when they replaced it with Juche

No matter the numerical figure of those who perished during the famine, the fact remains that many (in the thousands, or even hundreds of thousands) died as a result of the DPRK's negligence towards food distribution and its people

Therez too much for the DPRK and its sympathizers to explain or defend
The evidence (neutral or not) is there and as a result we can easily fathom the negligence of the DPRK

[Wanted Man]

Yes, I think the first son blew his chances when he tried getting into Disneyland Japan or some shit like that. :lol:

18tir: yeah, trotskyites, who have an interest in discrediting whatever they deem "Stalinist"(I'm not sure about the WSWS, the articles of which, by the way, are more boring than maths class, but some condemn Cuba as well). Great source. Saying "You want sources, HUH?!!!" and then posting a link to an organisation that is at least as interested in discrediting the DPRK as the bourgeoisie, means nothing. Also, not quite related, but this provides an interesting detail as to the motives of North Korean refugees to tell prison horror stories:

http://english.people.com.cn/200403/31/eng...31_138993.shtml (http://english.people.com.cn/200403/31/eng20040331_138993.shtml)


In my opinion, I think you appear and in fact provided some rational comments as regards to the DPRK. I don't think you are close to any trouble.

He was not simply Banned for defending DRPK. He was flaming, warned twice for homophobia, and he defied and mocked our forum's rules and effeciency.
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't read all of his posts, but if they did indeed contain homophobia, then it is only right he be restricted.

[TheComrade]

There is video evidence proving that public executions take place - there was a Channel 4 Dispatches programme on about it a few months ago. I know what many will say, 'capitalist lies - they forged the video' - screw your conspirarcy theories about everything being a lie (most things are...but I dont believe this is.) I mean - all you have to do is go to the northern border of N.Korea and you see it covered in armed guards...doesn't that tell you something...?

[tatu]

The DPRK now operates an "army first" policy but the armed guards are very much integrated into the rest of North Korean society - they help with construction and farming. There is no conscription—army service is entirely voluntary.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 12:22 PM
There is no conscription—army service is entirely voluntary.
Which is a very bad thing; military service, if any should exist, should be entirely igualitary, mandatory for everybody. "Voluntary" military service will probably translate into military service as punishment or privilege (sometimes both: a punishment for those in the troops, a privilege for officials).

I know a "democratic army" is an oxymoron, but to at least pretend it requires an army of conscript citizens.

Luís Henrique

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by DPRK [email protected] 24 2005, 06:25 AM
lol u know whats funny, here i am, u cannot stop me, u keep banning i keep creating, u see, thats what makes me better then u, because u and all of the board members here are revisionist dogs who are controled by the capitalistic pigs, so u wanna restrict me then come on give me what u got, cause remember this i will never leave, and one last time, HOW DARE U INSULT THE GLORIOUS LEADER, U SHOULD BE SENT TO MOSCOW TO BE PUTINS PERSONAL *****, U FUCKING ASS RAPING DOG
Its been a while since I've had such a laugh :lol:

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by tatu+Nov 23 2005, 06:55 PM--> (tatu @ Nov 23 2005, 06:55 PM) Oh, how easy some of you find it to twist words completely out of context! [/b]
Nobody did that!

YOU ruined yourself:


YOU
What rights does a human have in this day and age? The right to be a fascist? The right to hold his breath until his lungs pop? The right to erect a picket fence?

Real, genuine human rights DO NOT EXIST!

“the so-called rights of man ... are only the rights of the member of civil society, that is, of egoistic man, man separated from other men and from the community." - Marx

Human rights – the right to property, freedom of religion, etc., the rights which guarantee the concrete, real human being in their occupation, their beliefs, etc. – but founded on the separation of man from man, not on the relations or community of people, – the foundation of bourgeois political economy.



I believe in human rights, but not bourgeois human rights! Oh, okay, let's perpetuate the false lies of bourgeois human rights, rights that only seek to consolidate the will and power of the upper crusts!

Some of this human rights the north korean dictatorship doesn't give a fuck about include NON-"bourgeois" rights.


You attack Korea’s leaders like you’ve known them personally, like you have first hand proof of the so-called atrocities that you and bourgeois press people assign to Korea’s revolutionary heroes.

And you pretend North Korea is a beautiful wealthy utopia in which everyone lives happily and there's democracy and freedom and food for everyone, and that the bourgeois media made up EVERYTHING they say about it.


You spit on all those revolutionary peoples who fought the imperialists, you spit on the revolutionary peoples who have built the country into what it is today.

Yeah, a dictatorship...or should I say a MONARCHY?


Sound, fella, Flame me! Let free speech reign down!

You have more free speech here than you would have in North Korea. Go figure.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by DPRK Soldier+Nov 24 2005, 06:25 AM--> (DPRK Soldier @ Nov 24 2005, 06:25 AM) lol u know whats funny, here i am, u cannot stop me, u keep banning i keep creating, [/b]
An IP ban will put you in place.


u see, thats what makes me better then u, because u and all of the board members here are revisionist dogs who are controled by the capitalistic pigs,

Yeah, sure, they send me a cheque every 30 days for $5000 just to say that North Korea is a dictatorship in this forum :rolleyes:


so u wanna restrict me then come on give me what u got, cause remember this i will never leave, and one last time, HOW DARE U INSULT THE GLORIOUS LEADER, U SHOULD BE SENT TO MOSCOW TO BE PUTINS PERSONAL *****, U FUCKING ASS RAPING DOG

The fact that you use the term "glorious leader" shows me that you are a whiny stalinist kiddie (I didn't know people could last as one of those until they were 18) who worships stalinist dictators as if they were Jebus' second coming.

In other words, you're a reactionary, quasi-fascistic dumbass who is rebelling against his parents. Good thing you're banned already.


tatu
What? A Trotskyite web site, that has echoed second–hand information from the US Bureau of the Census? Ha! And here we have an American organisation that dares to comment on the “Human rights” violations of other countries! America has the world's highest incarceration rate, and has been accused of holding terror suspects in secret CIA prisons, in Europe.

More than 5.6 million Americans are in prison or have served time there. That's 1 in 37 adults living in the United States, the highest incarceration level in the world.

Any evidence of North Korea being a decent socialist state in which workers enjoy their freedom? Go ahead, and please keep in mind anything you give us from a stalinistic or North Korean source is as biased (if not more) than that which "bourgeois western media" or "trotskists" sources say.

And why do you people assume EVERYTHING the media says is false? They can't do that. If North Korea was actually like they portray it to be, they still would show it like that.

[Wanted Man]

Wow, I've never seen so many strawmen and already-refuted "arguments" in two posts.

[Master Che]

Originally posted by DPRK [email protected] 24 2005, 06:25 AM
lol u know whats funny, here i am, u cannot stop me, u keep banning i keep creating, u see, thats what makes me better then u, because u and all of the board members here are revisionist dogs who are controled by the capitalistic pigs, so u wanna restrict me then come on give me what u got, cause remember this i will never leave, and one last time, HOW DARE U INSULT THE GLORIOUS LEADER, U SHOULD BE SENT TO MOSCOW TO BE PUTINS PERSONAL *****, U FUCKING ASS RAPING DOG
*giggles* Dude chill out. Your post has revealed your immaturity and your lack of thought. You are not a communist but a simple stalinist idiot who believes capitalistic bullshit.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by DPRK [email protected] 24 2005, 06:25 AM
lol u know whats funny, here i am, u cannot stop me, u keep banning i keep creating, u see, thats what makes me better then u, because u and all of the board members here are revisionist dogs who are controled by the capitalistic pigs, so u wanna restrict me then come on give me what u got, cause remember this i will never leave, and one last time, HOW DARE U INSULT THE GLORIOUS LEADER, U SHOULD BE SENT TO MOSCOW TO BE PUTINS PERSONAL *****, U FUCKING ASS RAPING DOG
you are one confused little idiot, how dare you call your self communist all you are is a moron who buys into capitalist lies and belives communism is north korea.

[tatu]

This travelogue is highly biased and it's report may not be entirely inaccurate.

http://www.travel-library.com/asia/north_k...rip.bakker.html (http://www.travel-library.com/asia/north_korea/trip.bakker.html)

[Wanted Man]

Even if they are true, it doesn't make the sensationalist language and the bragging about how they fucked with the minds of their guides any less apalling.

[18tir]

America has the world's highest incarceration rate, and has been accused of holding terror suspects in secret CIA prisons, in Europe.

Yes, but in America you don't get killed for criticizing the government. They don't send you to labor camps for having different opinions. No doubt, there are serious abuses in the states and especially what the CIA's been doing. But your comparing two different things. In North Korea, 2 million have died of hunger because their leader is an incompetent moron. That's about 10% of the population. That's why people keep trying to flee the country. I mean, look at South Korea and compare it to the North.


18tir: yeah, trotskyites, who have an interest in discrediting whatever they deem "Stalinist"(I'm not sure about the WSWS, the articles of which, by the way, are more boring than maths class, but some condemn Cuba as well). Great source. Saying "You want sources, HUH?!!!" and then posting a link to an organisation that is at least as interested in discrediting the DPRK as the bourgeoisie, means nothing. Also, not quite related, but this provides an interesting detail as to the motives of North Korean refugees to tell prison horror stories:

Ok, this is one family of refugees. Big deal. I was watching a program on tv showing a Korean guy in the North with a hidden camera and it showed what goes on up there. If the regime has nothing to hide, that guy wouldn't have needed to hide his camera. As for the WSWS, even if they're Trotskyists, their analysis is usually superb and their anti-imperialism is genuine, so I have little reason to doubt what they say. If their articles are "boring," then i'd like to see another Marxist site that can beat them. I've been to Stalinist sites before and came away unimpressed.

[tatu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 07:38 PM
Even if they are true, it doesn't make the sensationalist language and the bragging about how they fucked with the minds of their guides any less apalling.
Exactly, and they come across as very arrogant

[tatu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 08:44 PM
Yes, but in America you don't get killed for criticizing the government. They don't send you to labor camps for having different opinions. No doubt, there are serious abuses in the states and especially what the CIA's been doing. But your comparing two different things. In North Korea, 2 million have died of hunger because their leader is an incompetent moron. That's about 10% of the population. That's why people keep trying to flee the country. I mean, look at South Korea and compare it to the North.

The western governments and media, conveniently, gave miniscule attention to the famine. Ted Yamamori, president of Food for the Hungry, criticized the reaction by wealthier countries during a trip to the affected areas.

If western governments blockade socialist countries then it will obviously be much harder for the socialist governments to trade and bring food into their countries.


According to the BBC:

"North Korea has often been accused of exaggerating the crisis to gain increased aid and political concessions."


http://baltimorechronicle.com/052704FreeSpeechZones.shtml
http://english.people.com.cn/200503/03/eng...303_175406.html (http://english.people.com.cn/200503/03/eng20050303_175406.html)

[Xiao Banfa]

You are right, Kim Jong Il is a true and great leader. However, he would be a much better leader if he cracked down more on dissidents and those traitors that leak lies to the west of famines and repression. What lies...

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Tino [email protected] 25 2005, 05:03 PM
You are right, Kim Jong Il is a true and great leader. However, he would be a much better leader if he cracked down more on dissidents and those traitors that leak lies to the west of famines and repression. What lies...
Educate us on how "true" and "great" he is . Thanks.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 06:39 PM
Wow, I've never seen so many strawmen and already-refuted "arguments" in two posts.
Ok, maybe the "beautiful wealthy utopia" part can be considered a "straw man" and the cheque thing is an exageration. So?

[Correa]

North Korea holds public executions while warning spectators that "This is what happens to anyone who challenges Kim's will". With this alone I make the case that Kim must be brought down and crushed like the tyrant he is! Anyone who defends this man needs to reconsider their position or admit they are evil.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by Fidelbrand+Nov 25 2005, 03:52 PM--> (Fidelbrand @ Nov 25 2005, 03:52 PM)
Tino [email protected] 25 2005, 05:03 PM
You are right, Kim Jong Il is a true and great leader. However, he would be a much better leader if he cracked down more on dissidents and those traitors that leak lies to the west of famines and repression. What lies...
Educate us on how "true" and "great" he is . Thanks. [/b]
He was being sarcastic Fidel Brandy... :P ...ya numpty

[WUOrevolt]

North Korea is not in good shape, yea maybe the situitation isnt as bad as the west portrays it to be, but it is still horrendus.

[WUOrevolt]

Originally posted by Tino [email protected] 25 2005, 01:03 PM
You are right, Kim Jong Il is a true and great leader. However, he would be a much better leader if he cracked down more on dissidents and those traitors that leak lies to the west of famines and repression. What lies...
Cracking down on dissidents is never justified or good.

[ReD_ReBeL]

man public executions? this isnt the victorian ages, making kids watch that is just damn right awful, i agree it isnt as bad as the west says but seriously its not in the best shape and partialy the USA is to blame with all the pressure and embargo on NK and understand the famine of the 90's was the famine brought on by KIM's policies(man made) or was in like a natural disaster?

[WUOrevolt]

Forget public executions, any kind of executions are bad

[ReD_ReBeL]

yes executions r an evil thing but a man who has stabbed say a black boy to death for him being black, he has no right to ever EVER! be released from prison for such a terrible crime, and after years the prisons will be over crowded and create possibley the most inhumane conditions creating Tortureis living conditions

[Jae iLL]

Watch "Under Cover, Inside the Secret State" that will tell you all you need to know. Revolutionaries are videotaped putting up posters that are punishable by DEATH. These posters call for a violent uprising of the proleteriat to overthrow Kim Jong Il so they do not have to live in poverty. The hidden cameras show dying children left in the street. The videos show public executions. The soldiers announce their crimes as "bringing outside influences in" these people help their countrymen escape to safety in China. There's no need to read articles or listen to people on here who have never been NEAR North Korea. Simply watch the video "Under Cover: Inside the Secret State. It's on CNN right now..

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by Jae [email protected] 25 2005, 09:06 PM
Watch "Under Cover, Inside the Secret State" that will tell you all you need to know. Revolutionaries are videotaped putting up posters that are punishable by DEATH. These posters call for a violent uprising of the proleteriat to overthrow Kim Jong Il so they do not have to live in poverty. The hidden cameras show dying children left in the street. The videos show public executions. The soldiers announce their crimes as "bringing outside influences in" these people help their countrymen escape to safety in China. There's no need to read articles or listen to people on here who have never been NEAR North Korea. Simply watch the video "Under Cover: Inside the Secret State. It's on CNN right now..
Think about this film and who is producing it. Think about why they would produce it. Think about who supports the destruction of the DPRK. Do you get it now?

[Jae iLL]

First of all, they did NOT produce it. Koreans risking their LIVES filmed these footage. Watch this as well: mms://www.dailynk.com/file/2005/01/19/DNKR00001267.wmv

Americans have NOTHING to do with this footage, it was recorded by Young Comrades for Freedom and was distributed across the peninsula via the underground revolutionary system. This video is on CNN because this cannot be ignored; however, do NOT get it twisted. Koreans videotaped this for the world to see.

Also, Cell phones have been smuggled in from China. These young comrades are able to call South Korean radio stations and further the revolutionary movement. Get it?

[Correa]

Even if CNN gave it its best capitalist/right-wing spin the footage itself is enough to deem Kim a tyrant!

[tatu]

Originally posted by Jae [email protected] 26 2005, 03:25 AM
First of all, they did NOT produce it. Koreans risking their LIVES filmed these footage. Watch this as well: mms://www.dailynk.com/file/2005/01/19/DNKR00001267.wmv

Americans have NOTHING to do with this footage, it was recorded by Young Comrades for Freedom and was distributed across the peninsula via the underground revolutionary system. This video is on CNN because this cannot be ignored; however, do NOT get it twisted. Koreans videotaped this for the world to see.

Also, Cell phones have been smuggled in from China. These young comrades are able to call South Korean radio stations and further the revolutionary movement. Get it?
And what? Nothing happens!

It’s just blurred footage with no subtitles whatsoever! (not that there's any speaking but there are images of writing on walls) The faces of the people in that video are completely obscured due to the poor quality footage, the guy/gal purchases what seems to be shredded vegetables or herbs? Then he walks around with camera pointed to the floor throughout most of the film. Was it me or did nothing noticeable occur in that film? Was it even filmed in North Korea?

[Correa]

A couple public executions, starving comrades picking up compost fertilizer (in othe words shit) to eat, etc.

[khalam_1232000]

ok, iam not a supporter of the DPRK, but u saw that on the CNN documentary, are u kidding me? i mean CNN u believe CNN? no one includin CNN knows what goes on inside the DPRK, so until u or i see it first hand then u cannot comment, but i saw that documentary and it seemed very fake to me, no different from american reporting how horrible cuba is

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 06:24 PM
ok, iam not a supporter of the DPRK, but u saw that on the CNN documentary, are u kidding me? i mean CNN u believe CNN? no one includin CNN knows what goes on inside the DPRK, so until u or i see it first hand then u cannot comment, but i saw that documentary and it seemed very fake to me, no different from american reporting how horrible cuba is
And the right wing calls CNN the "Communist News Network" It seems they can never win :rolleyes:

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 05:01 PM
North Korea holds public executions while warning spectators that "This is what happens to anyone who challenges Kim's will". With this alone I make the case that Kim must be brought down and crushed like the tyrant he is! Anyone who defends this man needs to reconsider their position or admit they are evil.
Do you know what they were executed for? Admit that I'm "evil"? Whoa, I hope you don't consider yourself a Marxist, otherwise surely you wouldn't use words so deeply rooted in Reaganite anti-communism? "Evil Empire", now what does that remind me of? You sound more like a Christian or a Reaganite. Also, I love how we need to "reconsider our positions" when emotionalist whiners like yourself have not shown a shred of evidence to support your ridiculous, moralistic claims.


And the right wing calls CNN the "Communist News Network" It seems they can never win :rolleyes:
Just because the neocons consider something "liberal" does not make it even a bit more credible than Fox News. The neocon vs liberal "struggle" is fake bullshit used by the bourgeoisie to divide the working class. Way to fall for obvious traps.

[Correa]

I know that water was once privatize in Bolivia, but I never heard Reagan had privatized words. If I sound like a "Christian" is because I am. My name is Christian Correa and I'm proud to be a "Christian" as I'm sure you are proud to be a "Matt". North Korea is a military dictatorship and to classify it as anything even remotely close to socialist is defeating in nature. CNNs bourgeois spin is obvious and in no way do I consider them a truthful news agency as is "Prensa Latina" or "Telesur" for example. Now I'd like to ask you to explain to us how Kim's regime is not as evil as I make it out to be.

[Wanted Man]

The last time I checked, the burden of proof was on the one who makes the positive assertion(i.e., the DPRK is an evil, military dictatorship). The reason for me bringing up Reagan, is his famous "evil empire" comment, which is directly related to you telling me to admit that I'm "evil"(firstly, don't tell me what to do, secondly, prove it). I said it because you're falling for obvious traps, and a more general pro-imperialist way of thinking. The "Christian" bit was just childish. You know bloody well what I mean.

You use "Under Cover, Inside the Secret State" as proof that the DPRK is an "evil military dictatorship", even though you admit that CNN is in no way credible. The footage shown is enough proof for you. Shots of a few starving children are enough to convince you that the government of the place they live in is eeeeeevil? Congratulations, you've been awarded the prize for most brainwashable person of the board.

Some good comments on this film from Soviet-Empire, the second of which was provided by me. Bold emphasis added either by me or by the original authors.


Originally posted by Rajin Cajun+--> (Rajin Cajun)Its amazing how these "cameramen" always get this kind of footage yet never get caught...yeah it would almost be amazing if it wasn't blatant propaganda.[/b]


Originally posted by Matthijs+--> (Matthijs)Thanks Cajun. How's that for spin, canuck? Are shots of hungry children enough for people to lose any form of analysis, reasoning, or anything even close to that? This was recorded in 1998, when the famine had only just started decreasing. The quality of the video is awfully good, either the whole China story is true, and he got himself an expensive camcorder in Dandong, or there's something else going on. Which reminds me, if he's a wanted man or whatever, why do we see him walking past army men who look at him without doing anything?

Anyway canuck, if you want spin, you don't need to come here. You can listen to the Discovery Channel commentator in that video. I, for one, completely share Ixabert's view that such shots should only strengthen our admiration for a country, as well as our hatred for the imperialists that force this.[/b]


Originally posted by Comrade Rupert
It was very interesting to watch, but I doubt the validity of some of it:

The "cameraman" says first "Whenever I see policemen or soldiers, I am scared they are coming for me" - then we see shots filmed by him, of a group of soliders next to him, eating, and clearly making eye contact with him. He walks around this village, asking children in the open how old they are and if they have a home, and pointing his hidden camera in their faces. Subtle, eh? All watching this did was make me want to go there even more.

Anyway, this is outdated now really - DPRK is through the famine - anyone have anything more up-to-date and preferably less biased?


[email protected]
Even the 'international press' are starting to admit what I've been saying all along. For instance, take this excerpt from an article published by the L.A. times:

[i]"[it is] hard to substantiate claims of defectors. Desparate to win asylum, they have a powerful incentive to embellish. The custom among many south korean and Japanese journalists of paying for interviews adds another incentive for them to make up stories. Another problem is that defectors are not really representative of the north korean population. As with any other refugee population, they tend to be the people who were most disenchanted with life in their home country. A disproportionate number come from a single province, North Hamgyong, at the Chinese border. Often, by the time they've arrived in south korea they've been out of north korea for several years, so their information can be out of date."

The South korean national intelligence service, in the psychological war against the north, ensures that the defectors who are interviewed portray the north in a negative light. As Barbara Demick, -- a bourgeois journalist very hostile to the DPRK -- has admitted,

"During a recent interview with Hwang Jang Yop, ... agents of the south korean national intelligence service squeezed into a tiny conference room with us, a hovering presence that had a decidedly chilling effect on the interview."

I have heard many other such accounts.

Also, as regards the 'experts' of south korea, from which a lot of these inane rumours about the DPRK originate -- the same writer quoted above had this to say,

"... many tend to have a strong political bias--... harsh critics of North Korea from the old school of anti-communism".

Foreigners who have not only visited but have lived in the DPRK offer a very different perspective:

"...a tiny expatriate community living in Pyongyang. These are mostly aid workers, U.N. employees, and diplomats. ... they do actually live in the country and interact daily with North Korean colleagues. ... They tend to present a more positive and less caricatured portrait of North Korea than outsiders."



Further things to consider:--
(1)The country is suffering from food shortages and temporary economic difficulties; so-called 'defections' are to be expected.
(2)Many of those who 'defect' through the PRC-DPRK border only do so because of temporary economic difficulties, or to buy cheep food and or to visit their families (there are many native Koreans in northeastern China), then subsequently return on their own initiative (according to the Chinese government).
(3)Rarely is it ever mentioned what crimes alleged defectors committed when they supposedly escaped from prison camps. Why? Some of them may have escaped after commiting illict acts and crimes, and wanting to get asylum, would have a strong incentive to present themselves as innocent victims.
(4)According to the DPRK, 'defections' are exaggerated.
(5)Many crimes are committed by rogue elements in the DPRK security and police forces, which are subsequently blamed on the DPRK governmetn itself by defectors.
(6)Some defectors have been caught lying, not by the DPRK, but by Japan!


Comrade Rupert
Thank you very much for that, it'll be my main defence against the people who take those documentaries as absolute untdoutable fact.

On what you said about North Koreans returning on their own will - there was another documentary on here a few months ago with the standard bias and exagerations, but there was one boy who went to work in China for a while to earn money, and on returning to the the river crossing and looking over the border from the Chinese side, and the reporter asked him if he really wanted to go back - he said yes, he loved the country, and while they didn't have much fod at home, it was his homeland, and he prefered it to China any day.

[Correa]

Let's forget about CNN's program all together and I think we can address this better. Mentioning or refering to CNN's work I think is throwing us off somewhat. Is it possible to visit N Korea?

[ComTom]

Yes, the bourgeoisie media is a weird institution. But I think it is a proven fact that North Korea invaded South Korea to "liberate" the area, killing hundreds of thousands of people. The Democratic Republic of Korea, is the most evil so-called worker's state known to man. The leaders of Korea have brainwashed their people into believing almost anything. I question the mass media, but I also question the DPRK and their workings. They imprisoned a estimated 200,000 of its citizens in concentration camps! Have any of you supporters of Kim Jong Ill heard the expression " where theirs smoke, theirs fire. ". Well, I am a firm believer of this quote and I believe that the regime has to be oppressive in order to survive in a world that wants to destroy it.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by Correa+Feb 26 2006, 05:52 PM--> (Correa @ Feb 26 2006, 05:52 PM) Let's forget about CNN's program all together and I think we can address this better. Mentioning or refering to CNN's work I think is throwing us off somewhat. Is it possible to visit N Korea? [/b]
Fair enough. :) Yes, you can visit the DPRK. See www.koryotours.com

Being only 16, I don't have the money to afford a trip, and I probably wouldn't get a visa anyway, but I'm definitely going to do it in a few years. An unavoidable aspect of a trip to the DPRK is that you are required to have a guide(s) with you. But don't interpret this as "government minders monitoring your every move", it's truly not as Orwellian as some people interpret it. Although freedom to move will be limited to some degree, it's not like you'll only be hauled around past all kinds of "Potemkin Cities" at a high pace.

It's all a matter of gaining trust, really. From reading between the lines of negative reports, it became pretty obvious to me that those who had been restricted or had bad experiences with their guides were usually being assholes: "Ooh, this house doesn't look so good, there must be terrible poverty here. No wonder, your government only squanders money on the military, how awful!" If you just avoid such things and at least act somewhat respectful, I doubt you'll be denied a solitary walk through Pyongyang.

Of course, all of this is purely based on what Koryo Tours says, I've no idea if this is accurate, but they've been doing this work for years and they need to have such guidelines to make sure that more "open" tours are allowed each year, so they don't have much of a reason to lie about this. Koryo Tours isn't owned by the DPRK government, I think it's owned by Canadians or something.


Originally posted by ComTom+--> (ComTom)But I think it is a proven fact that North Korea invaded South Korea to "liberate" the area, killing hundreds of thousands of people.[/b]
Hardly. Considering the crude way in which the country was split up, it's no wonder that *both* sides were itching to go toe-to-toe with each other. You seem to think that the armies of both the DPRK and the ROK were just sitting there, watching each other across the DMZ, until Kim Il-sung gave the order and suddenly the DPRK's army started slaughtering people. Before the war, there had been numerous forays and border skirmishes already. The DPRK only "started" the war in the sense that they were the first to massively deploy troops.

And let's not forget the American role in the war. Like the many massacres in both southern AND northern towns by them, which definitely caused more death and misery than Korean-on-Korean slaughters. Or the fact that MORE napalm was dropped by the US in the Korean War, than in the Vietnam War. Or that all of Pyongyang was constantly bombed. At the end of the war, a whopping FOUR buildings remained in the city. Imagine if your capital suddenly had to be rebuilt from scratch.


Originally posted by ComTom
They imprisoned a estimated 200,000 of its citizens in concentration camps!
Some questions here:

-Are these concentration camps the same as, say, Nazi Germany's DEATH camps that were known by the same name?
-Are the prisoners treated badly?
-How many of the prisoners are there for other reasons than actual criminal offences?

Because I'm pretty confident that, even relatively, the United States of America has more prisoners, more torture and more executions yearly.


[email protected]
Have any of you supporters of Kim Jong Ill heard the expression " where theirs smoke, theirs fire. ".
Much like the smoke from the USS Maine, the Reichstag and the World Trade Center?


ComTom
Well, I am a firm believer of this quote and I believe that the regime has to be oppressive in order to survive in a world that wants to destroy it.
Hmm, I don't really see what you're getting at with this. At first you say that the DPRK government is "evil", but now the offences, whether real or fictional, are "necessary". But you're quite correct when you say that a lot of countries want to destroy it. I'd really like to know why exactly, for example, there are still thousands of US troops in the south. Surely, such a small amount would not help a lot if the "evil" DPRK were to suddenly invade, especially compared to the large, well-armed ROK army?

[Correa]

Does North Korea have a news agency like Cuba's "Prensa Latina" or "Granma"? I'd like to read the N Korean point of view to get a better understanding. If Kim is indeed a geniune socialist then he should make an effort to let the world know. I mean everyone knows about President Castro's position on issues. We all know of Cuba's heroic missions across the globe and of their democratic system, but very few of us know about N Korea. Can you direct me to a website to further investigate this secretive nation?

[ComTom]

Well, I think it was obvious by the tape taken by the dissent that the political prisoners are terribly treated due to the fact that they have to use their own feces as firewood so they can survive in the terrible climate of cold. I believe that both sides have played a part in the Korean war, but I find it unneccesary to attack unless you are being attacked, North Korea was, but there was no major thrust into North Korea. North Korea could of defended themselves fine, plus with Mao to the north who was in love with the regime in Pyongwang, their is no chance he would stand for a westren invasion, he would of ordered Chinese troops to go down into North Korea if they were attacked, and they did, but only when the AMericans and UN forces attacked after the DPRK invaded South Korea.

So basically, South Korea and America were throwing tiny rocks at North Korea so then North Korea came at them with a chainsaw. That doesn't sound very logical!

North Korea is what I like to call modern day feudalism. They have a king, and then a prince who will inherit the throne. The god is worshiped everyday ( Kim Ill Sung ) by building places of worship ( pictures and statues ) which is about everywhere. They have serfs who are terribly mistreated and the goverment is based off of millitary values rather than the values of the people, just as most monarchys are.

I promise you that if there was a plebsicate in which the people of Korea as a whole would vote whether to be stalinist or fascist, they would sadly chose fascism due to the misdeeds of the communist regime of DPRK. The only way we can truley discover whats going on in this nation is to sneak across the Yalu river and run around the country taking pictures ( cameras are prohibited )

Oh yes, must I mention how cell phones, cameras, computors, and other media assets are controlled only by goverment officials? The people turn on the radio and hear only goverment controlled broadcasting.

NORTH KOREA IS A VISION THAT GEORGE ORWELL SAW WHEN HE WENT TO A FORTUNE TELLER, HE WROTE A BOOK ABOUT THE NATION HE SAW, THIS NOVEL BECAME KNOWN AS 1984.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 08:10 PM
Does North Korea have a news agency like Cuba's "Prensa Latina" or "Granma"? I'd like to read the N Korean point of view to get a better understanding. If Kim is indeed a geniune socialist then he should make an effort to let the world know. I mean everyone knows about President Castro's position on issues. We all know of Cuba's heroic missions across the globe and of their democratic system, but very few of us know about N Korea. Can you direct me to a website to further investigate this secretive nation?
http://www.kcckp.net/en/ <=="Official web portal"

http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm <==News agency in English

It&#39;s rather centered on topics like the Kims, or Juche, though, so I don&#39;t read either of them much. The former link has lots of nice music though.

I&#39;ll respond to ComTom tomorrow, I&#39;m going off in a few minutes.