Joseph Geobbels and family.

[Noah]

Hey guys,

I was recently watching the movie 'downfall' and it is fantastic. I'm not sure about the historical accuracy of it though, for those that have seen it, what do you think of it?

Anyway after watching the movie it sparked an interest in finding more about Joseph Goebbels (the guy who looks tall and alien-like scary in the movie :D). I know that he was the main Nazi Propagandist and stayed with Hitler in his bunker until Hitler and Eva killed themselves and on the same day he killed himself too. I also know he was married to a fanatical nazi Magda.

I was reading about how Magda killed her children by using cyanide, recently my teacher was telling me about how there is a picture of all the Goebbels children all lined up dead on the floor. Can anyone get this picture for me please? i've tried finding it on the internet with no luck!

What else can you tell me about Goebbels? he certainly wasn't blonde or blue eyed, like Hitler but he certainly saw people with those types of characteristics superior to others.

Noah! Cheers.

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 12:43 AM
the guy who looks tall
I thought he was pretty small???

:blink:

[Xvall]

Goebbles looked like a creep, which is kind of appealing to me. Too bad he was a piece of shit.

[VeratheFastest]

He was a Fascist, but Goebbels was a genius. He knew what people wanted to hear and not hear, and he knew exactly why certain aspects of propraganda were not working and did his best to correct this.

He was like a magician.

You must read his Diaries, I have only read the 1945 parts but it reveals how much in control of reality he was. Hitler needed Goebbels as much as Goebbels needed Hitler.

He hated Jews alot, though he had numerous affairs like one with a Czech actress that got so out of hand that Hitler threaten to sack him. Magda wanted a divorce, but Hitler said no because they were the "First Couple of the Third Reich".

"Faith may move mountains, but only knowledge can guide them."-Joseph Goebbels

[RNK]

It's too bad so many Nazis turned out to be complete fucking cowards (it must be written in their creed somewhere). I'd have much rather seen Goebbels strung up like Il Duce.

[Demogorgon]

That's a pretty horrible picture you are talking about. I have seen it, but I don't care to go looking for it again, sorry.

As for him not having blond hair and blue eyes, well look at Hitler, there was a fair amount of hypocricy there

[Led Zeppelin]

Ugh, I hate it when people say that Hitler and other top-Nazis were geniuses. They weren't geniuses, they were morons.

Being a genius means producing something brilliant, or doing something brilliant, not being a minister in some government or being a statesman. Bush is the president of the US, is he a genius? Fuck, they're all morons.

A genius is a person like Lenin, who wrote numerous books about political theory, or Marx who did the same, or....people who actually did things worth of the name "genius".

Hitler was a fucking idiotic ****, and the same goes for Goebbels, Mussolini, and every other of those top Nazis.

Learn to apply the term "genius" accordingly.

[The Grey Blur]

I agree completely. I hate that "I disagree with his views, but Joseph Goebbels was a genius..." only completely pretentious and insensitive pricks say that.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Originally posted by [email protected]
an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.

I'm sorry, but Goebbels was a genius. Yeah he was a bastard and I hate him, but he was a very intelligent man. However I do see your point. I too am sick of people saying "I respect his genius". I fail to see why you would respect someone who used their only talent to manipulate people and perpetuate a disgusting, despotic regime. There is absolutely no reason to respect someone based purely on the fact that they are a genius.

[luxemburg89]

no he was no genius, he was intelligent, but no more a genius than Stalin was. He (Stalin) told the party what they wanted to hear at different times in the leadership struggle - and he was no genius but he was smart when he needed to be. Advertising is nothing more than propaganda - Head and Shoulders Shampoo tells people what they want to hear, that their hair will be nice and clean if they use it, does that make the person who wrote the Head and Shoulders advert a genius??

[Janus]

Can anyone get this picture for me please?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7...ad-goebbels.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/5-dead-goebbels.jpg)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/13/Bscap007.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e...to-identify.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e5/Voss-called-to-identify.jpg)

[The Grey Blur]

What evidence is there that he was a very intelligent man?

The Nazis got and kept power because of the division of the left.

[VeratheFastest]

In order to realize the full manner of Goebbels genius you have to first look at Hitler. Goebbels managed to get millions of Germans to revere Hitler as a god-like figure. He even remarks happily on how a 10 year old boy was in a hospital because he wouldn't stop talking about his devotion to Hitler after the kid's city surrrended to the Americans.

Goebbels knew the value of Total War. We get an incite in his Diaries on his feud with Himmler. Goebbels wanted to shut down this popular restaurant, but Himmler reopened it so his troops can spend time their being lazy (SS known for lots of vacation time and drinking). He wanted to get more women into the workforce and form battalions even though Hitler wasn't keen on the ideas.

Goebbels wrote that he focused too much on making the Soviets look horrible, which is why he believed many Germans happily surrendered to the Americans.
It's odd when you read his Diaries, you are reading the truth behind the lies.

And then as my signature attests, he had an incredible ability to predict the future (not literally though he cast astrology circles for propraganda purposes) based on current events. He was the first to use the term "iron curtain."

Division of the Left? Not only division, but disinterest. Many veterans blamed Leftists for losing WWI for Germany. The National Socialists won support due to promises for economic advancement, the fears of the middle/upper classes, and their hatred for the Versailles Treaty.
By March 1933, the National Socialists had 288 members in the Reichstag. By November 1933, Hitler was appointed and they had all the seats. Not a huge jump in my mind.

For everyone who has seen Downfall, Goebbels dictated in his last letter on how the lies will fall apart and the truth shall be known. Ironically enough, thanks to their evil and good record keeping the Nazis are the most well-known evil organisation in the past known to the Western World. Hitler sells the most books only second to the Kennedy's. In a strange twisted sense, Goebbels won. He won because people are attracted to evil.

In the words of my Uncle Glen who owns a copy of Mein Kampf and which is why I know so much about Nazis. "Fascists are fascinating."

There is the famous case when Goebbels was helping to try the Communist who they framed for setting the Reichstag on fire. "Let me deal with this minor Propragandist. I know Propraganda." He was able to make the guy look like a complete idiot. This Communist was trying to blame the Nazis for killing Rosa Luxembourg!

[Janus]

What evidence is there that he was a very intelligent man?
He was certainly a very shrewd and calculating man as befitting a propaganda minister and his skill was recognized by both his fellow party members and enemies alike.

[Led Zeppelin]

Vera, your definition of genius is success. Success doesn't equal genius, especially not success as a politician, since politicians usually don't do shit, it is the people who do it for them.

By your logic 90% of all the worlds heads of states were geniuses, since they were heads of states. Even if they were utter failures, like Hitler and Goebbels, they're still geniuses according to you because they were able to get that position and keep it.

Alright, so is Bush a genius? What about Reagan? Yeah, he destroyed the USSR, he must've been a genius!

Totally idiotic reasoning, and that doesn't fit the meaning of the word genius.

Ok, so I say Lenin was a genius, now you ask me to prove it, alright.

Firstly he expanded the theory of Marxism greatly, in terms of economics, politics and philosophy as well. His career as a revolutionary was of course also based on the work of others, so I won't use that to prove his genius, just like how you shouldn't use the position of Goebbels as proof of his genius.

But seriously, what did Goebbels ever add to anything? Did he ever write anything profound? Did he ever clarify any scientific, political, or economic in terms of theory?

Yeah, he wrote a diary, great historical document. So did Anne Frank, and I won't call her a genius either.


I'm sorry, but Goebbels was a genius. Yeah he was a bastard and I hate him, but he was a very intelligent man.

No he wasn't, he was a fucking moron. He hated Jews for a moronic reason, the whole political theory he adhered too was based on idiotic pseudo-science.

That doesn't make him a genius, that makes him a moron with a fucked up sense of reality.

Just like any Nazi.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

No he wasn't, he was a fucking moron. He hated Jews for a moronic reason, the whole political theory he adhered too was based on idiotic pseudo-science.
:rolleyes: Well philosophy, politics and science clearly were not Goebbels' strong points. I never said his criticisms of Judaism were in any way intelligent, yeah they were absolute bull but then Einstein used to have trouble putting his clothes on or finding his way around university. Goebbels was extremely good at brainwashing the masses, that is a fact. He was a genius of advertising and manipulation techniques, and his intellect played a large part in the perpetuation of the Nazi regime.

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 07:06 pm
Well philosophy, politics and science clearly were not Goebbels' strong points. I never said his criticisms of Judaism were in any way intelligent, yeah they were absolute bull but then Einstein used to have trouble putting his clothes on or finding his way around university. Goebbels was extremely good at brainwashing the masses, that is a fact. He was a genius of advertising and manipulation techniques, and his intellect played a large part in the perpetuation of the Nazi regime.
First of all stop rolling your eyes, that shit doesn't affect me.

As for Goebbels being good at propaganda, so what? The US media is pretty damn good at propaganda too, are you saying that the guy who owns CNN is a genius too?

You have no argument, really, oh, and your analogy was very weak. Einstein actually contributed something to science, something very profound actually which changed the scientific community forever and benefited humanity greatly.

Goebbels did...what? He fooled a shitload of people, wow, what a genius!

Fine, if you want to use the term genius for that, go ahead, but when I say genius I mean people who actually did something important, not people who were generally worthless to humanity and would've been better off not being born at all, or, should I say, humanity would've been better off.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

As for Goebbels being good at propaganda, so what? The US media is pretty damn good at propaganda too, are you saying that the guy who owns CNN is a genius too?
CNN has never even attempted to brainwash the people into accepting a regime even nearly as brutal or as despotic as that of the Nazis.



You have no argument, really, oh, and your analogy was very weak. Einstein actually contributed something to science, something very profound actually which changed the scientific community forever and benefited humanity greatly.
This basically just comes back to you refusing to acknowledge the intelligence of a man with whom you disagree.


Goebbels did...what? He fooled a shitload of people, wow, what a genius!
WTF?? So fooling a nation into supporting the most brutal regime in history is easy? You are delusional. This was no ordinary feat, and it undoubtedly required immense intellect.



Fine, if you want to use the term genius for that, go ahead, but when I say genius I mean people who actually did something important, not people who were generally worthless to humanity and would've been better off not being born at all, or, should I say, humanity would've been better off.
Humanity would've been better off, but that doesn't mean he didn't do anything of significance; in fact, it's quite the opposite. Goebbels had an immense impact on world history, whether you want to admit it or not.

[Led Zeppelin]

Yeah, he had an immense impact, an immense negative one.

But whatever, I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore, you clearly have another definition of the term genius than me. Why not put the word "evil" in front of it whenever you use it for people you don't like and are icky?

Also, the vast majority of the German public didn't know about the concentration camps, so he didn't make them support it, he merely hid the fact that they were doing that, which isn't very hard in a world wherein people rely on newspapers and radio for their news, because, you know, they didn't have any internet back then either.

But yeah, sure, that requires a genius...just remember to put the word "evil" in front of it.

[The Grey Blur]

In fact Nazi propaganda had an extremely limited effect on the German population - it is said to have re-inforced popular prejudices (like anti-semitism) but failed to have convinced them of the Nazi's "ideological" beliefs (like the purity of the Aryan race, the athiesm). So, no Goebbels wasn't even a genius from that side of things.

I agree with Sartre.


Division of the Left? Not only division, but disinterest. Many veterans blamed Leftists for losing WWI for Germany. The National Socialists won support due to promises for economic advancement, the fears of the middle/upper classes, and their hatred for the Versailles Treaty.
Yes, division of the Left. The Left (SPD and KPD) were way bigger than the Nazis and controlled all the main cities yet failed to unite to crush fascism. The factors you listed played a part but that does not contradict the fact that, if sectarian differences had been set aside, the worker's movement could have crushed the Nazis easily.


By March 1933, the National Socialists had 288 members in the Reichstag. By November 1933, Hitler was appointed and they had all the seats. Not a huge jump in my mind.
No, even in March the SPD and KPD still had more seats, as well as much more practical power (ie the workers). Even at that juncture if they had united they could have stopped Nazism. They did not, and history shows the price they paid.

[VeratheFastest]

I knew taking World History class would pay off!

According to this chart I have right in front of me:
March 1933
Party Seats
National Socialist (Nazi) 288
German National Peoples 52
German Peoples 2
Economic
Catholic Center 74
Bavarian Peoples 18
State (Democrats) 5
Social Democrat (Socialist) 120
Communist 81
Other Parties 7

[The Grey Blur]

Well yes, you are correct on the figures, my bad. But that was because the Communist were being persecuted and all political meetings the Nazis disagreed with being broken up. All rights had also been suspended by Hindenburg.

REICHSTAG ELECTION
MARCH 1933
Party vote %
National Socialist 17,277,000 43.9
Social Democratic 7,182,000 18.3
Communist 4,848,000 12.3
Center 4,425,000 11.7
Nationalist 3,137,000 8.0
Bavarian People's 1,074,000 2.7
Other parties 1,533,000 3.8

So despite all this gross oppression the Nazis still couldn't get a majority.

But my point was the Left failed earlier. Their failure to unite when they did have the power to crush fascism meant it was game over by March. So my original points still stands - it was the failure of the Left to unite against Fascism that allowed Hitler to succeed.

[VeratheFastest]

But Hitler was appointed because he came in second, and then absorbed Hindenburg's powers when the WWI hero of Germany died.

What action would the Left had taken?

[The Grey Blur]

They would have shut the Nazis down earlier through physical force. What I'm saying is by 1933 it was too late - the Left should have united earlier when they had the chance and the numbers. That's what Trotsky called for, a United Front against fascism.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Yeah but the left made a lot of mistakes back then. First of all, the expulsion of Trotsky, then the Aventine Succession in Italy. There's no point blaming the left for the rise of Nazism though.

[The Grey Blur]

Trotsky did (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/index.htm)

My reason for pointing out the mistakes of the Left is so we don't repeat them again.

The KPD and SPD rank and file should have united against Nazism and defeated it in it's infancy - their disunity lead to them both being exterminated. The worker's were the only force that could have stopped Nazism; anyone with a basic knowledge of the political stuation of Weimar Germany and Marxism in general can see that.