the voice of the people

[hawarameen]

here are a few web sites that i use to look at articles that are not caught up in this anti war hippie hysteria.
you have read the newspapers who only add to hype so now i urge you to read some articles from the people that matter, the people who know the situation INSIDE iraq and not articles from someone sitting in fleet street.

www.puk.org
www.kdp.pp.se
www.kurdistanobserver.com
www.inc.org.uk

[hawarameen]

14 people have viewed this thred, 4 times have been by me.

am i to assume that 9 people were interested in learning more about iraqi opposition parties and their case or are the rest of you unconvincable

[canikickit]

Last time I spoke to you about it, Hawar, you said you were against the war. You said you would support it provided innocent people were not at risk. Have you since changed your mind?

I haven't read any of the articles yet, but I'll tell you my feelings of the war anyway.

I think that war is inevitable now, I think it always was bound to happen since the whole hubbub started. I support the idea that Saddam is an evil man, abusing the work and resources of millions of people. I think the premise of intervention itself is a very difficult one to reason with, or against.
I do not like to look at the history of Western interference with other areas, other cultures and other people. It is disgusting. Three of the biggest trouble spots of the world; Northern Ireland, Palestine and Kashmir/India, are the direct result of imperialism (Iraq itself is a former British colony), and I fear the US's current moves bare a striking resemblance to these events. The United States of America are going into Iraq because of oil and to secure a stronghold. They are going in for another reason: because they can. The US truly believe they are the police of the world, and they wish to demonstrate their power.

Fifty years down the road will the US be at war with Jordan? or Turkey? Will US soldiers march into China from their bases in North Korea? I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised.

With all that said, my thought now are more on after the war. I can only hope that the Kurdish people are treated as they deserve, and that all the people's quality of living goes up. Will it? I actually believe it will. Unfortunatly I think that it will be suppressed to the the stage where they will never be happy without true revolution, an event which will be unlikely with the strong US presence.

(Edited by canikickit at 2:15 am on Feb. 6, 2003)

[Tasha]

Very well said, some interesting very plausible theories with evidence to back them up. You know it kind of makes sense to label iraq (2nd largest oil reserves) and iran (3rd largest oil reserves). US already has Saudi. Now the question is why label north korea, possibly future attack on China who supposingly is a threat to the United States due to their military capability (China). All this propaganda bullshit is really irritating. Americans or any other people for that matter should not have lies shouted in their ears while they have to dig for true answers.

(Edited by Tasha at 2:32 am on Feb. 6, 2003)

[hawarameen]

innocent lives are always going to be at risk but i would never support an american war based on fictional evidence purely to gain control of oil.

it has since been made clear to me that there may be a chance that a federal republic of kurdistan will be set up and none of you can imagine the emotion this fills me with to hear of this rumour.

the evidence provided by powel may or may not be true but i know that saddam HAS links to al qaida for example. the vast majority of the remaining al qaida forces fled afghanistan and backed by saddam set up jund-al-islam who took control of a village in kurdistan and decapitated them male population. our brave peshmerga have since been able to retake the village but the presence of al-qaida is an unmistakable fact in kurdistan.

i am not delusional, i am not certain that we will get a single thing from this conflict but for centuries we have been given promises after promises and each time ended up with nothing, does this then mean we are to give up hope in all shape or form?

[Son of Scargill]

I personally hope some good may come of this madness,but I think little will really change for Kurdistan.Turkey,Syria and Iran will certainly not be overjoyed at the thought of a federal Kurdish state on their borders,knowing that it will only increase unrest amongst their own kurdish populations.Also,the KDP and PUK in iraqi kurdistan,although nominally sticking to the '98 peace agreement,are still commiting abuses against each other.I'll admit that this is on a much smaller scale than in previous years,but what is to say that now that the americans seem to be flooding the country with guns,and once the Baghdad threat is reduced,that this fighting will not be renewed on a larger scale.After all,there will be more at stake.Also,can either of these main parties be trusted?The KDP requested assistance from the Iraqi government to put down uprisings by the PUK and PKK before.Some of the atrocities commited during these times are now used as evidence to gain them sympathy.The PUK has also had ties with some of the Islamic parties that now form Ansar al Islam(Jund al Islam) in the past.I know in politics you can end up with some strange bedfellows,but I really don't have a good feeling about the consequences of this war for the people of Kurdistan.
I seriously hope I am wrong though.

[Show me the Money]

Do you think Turkey would back up the US if the result of a war would be "that a federal republic of kurdistan will be set up"??

[Show me the Money]

This is just one manipulation scheme orchestrated by the U?S and the U?K.

[Boris Moskovitz]

If war goes on like this and if US would have the least small thought of invading China, it would lead to our doom, China itself, is a country with enough power to kill us all, uh... I think so... but North Korea? Nobody cares about them, heck, they only have like 2 atomic bombs, and we're not even sure if they work. We all know that once they are done using up all their nukes, US will invade them. But then... China will step in, and so Russia may step in o_O, so will many other countries, including US' pet country Canada, and so, World War III has started, and we're all screwed thanks to USA. Err...

Okay, I know the Americans, no matter how capitalist they are, they would NEVER, EVER! do that, at least I hope so, anyways, I am sure that their invasion in Afghanistan would just be an excuse to look over Mother Russia, but thats just me ^^. And for Iraq, the war is inevitable as canikickit said. Well, just a question: How much people in the REAL world, that you know support the war? Most of my friends do because they believe in the sayings of Junior o_O;;.

[mentalbunny]

According to an article in the Guardian yesterday (Saturday 8th Feb 2003), an Iraqi deserter said the conscripted soldiers do not want to fight because they know they will die, but they cannot surrender becasue then they will be shot by members of the Republican Guard. They want America to attack because they do not like the situation in their country but they do not want to have to fight or surrender.

This is also coming from people who do not really know what will happen after the war, who do not suspect the possiblity of a puppet regime controlled by the US or any other injustices that may occur.

I am still against the war, as the motives are not pure enough, a win for the US will not be a win for all (esp, the Kurds, I really doubt they will escape oppression), however I understand that Saddam's regime needs to be changed. I have no idea how to do this but war is not the answer, especially against the army that appears to be in place in Northern Iraq, consisting of reluctant conscripts and die-hard Saddam supporters.

[Beccie]

I agree with you mentalbunny, there must be a better way than war. Neither Saddam or George Bush care for the Iraqi civilians/Kurds.

How else can Saddam be overthrown?


(Edited by Commie01 at 10:40 pm on Feb. 9, 2003)

[Red Liberation]

By Revolution? Although it may be quite bloody

[hawarameen]

its so easy to say saddam should be overthrown by revolution and if i had it my own way this is how it would be, but its not realistic. an covert guerilla war in iraq would be met by very strong covert anti-guerilla campaign by turkey. no-one would notice the support turkey would give iraq.
this way the whole situation is on the front page of every newspaper in the world and if turkey wants any respect or relations with the rest of the world it not only has to obey human rights but it has to be seen to be obeying them.

the downfall of saddam and indeed the future of iraq has to have some influence by the outside world or the problem will be replaced with another, after all it was the rest of the world that created iraq from nothing in 1912

[Show me the Money]

Boris Moskovitz, most real or imaginary ;-) people do oppose the war(i live in Holland).