Log in

View Full Version : Pride, Prejudice, Insurance



Free Palestine
16th November 2005, 19:02
Pride, Prejudice, Insurance

By PAUL KRUGMAN

...

Let’s start with the fact that America’s health care system spends more, for worse results, than that of any other advanced country.

In 2002 the United States spent $5,267 per person on health care. Canada spent $2,931; Germany spent $2,817; Britain spent only $2,160. Yet the United States has lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than any of these countries.

But don’t people in other countries sometimes find it hard to get medical treatment? Yes, sometimes - but so do Americans. No, Virginia, many Americans can’t count on ready access to high-quality medical care.

The journal Health Affairs recently published the results of a survey of the medical experience of “sicker adults” in six countries, including Canada, Britain, Germany and the United States. The responses don’t support claims about superior service from the U.S. system. It’s true that Americans generally have shorter waits for elective surgery than Canadians or Britons, although German waits are even shorter. But Americans do worse by some important measures: we find it harder than citizens of other advanced countries to see a doctor when we need one, and our system is more, not less, rife with medical errors.

Above all, Americans are far more likely than others to forgo treatment because they can’t afford it. Forty percent of the Americans surveyed failed to fill a prescription because of cost. A third were deterred by cost from seeing a doctor when sick or from getting recommended tests or follow-up.

Why does American medicine cost so much yet achieve so little? Unlike other advanced countries, we treat access to health care as a privilege rather than a right. And this attitude turns out to be inefficient as well as cruel.

The U.S. system is much more bureaucratic, with much higher administrative costs, than those of other countries, because private insurers and other players work hard at trying not to pay for medical care. And our fragmented system is unable to bargain with drug companies and other suppliers for lower prices.

Taiwan, which moved 10 years ago from a U.S.-style system to a Canadian-style single-payer system, offers an object lesson in the economic advantages of universal coverage. In 1995 less than 60 percent of Taiwan’s residents had health insurance; by 2001 the number was 97 percent. Yet according to a careful study published in Health Affairs two years ago, this huge expansion in coverage came virtually free: it led to little if any increase in overall health care spending beyond normal growth due to rising population and incomes.

Before you dismiss Taiwan as a faraway place of which we know nothing, remember Chile-mania: just a few months ago, during the Bush administration’s failed attempt to privatize Social Security, commentators across the country - independent thinkers all, I’m sure - joined in a chorus of ill-informed praise for Chile’s private retirement accounts. (It turns out that Chile’s system has a lot of problems.) Taiwan has more people and a much bigger economy than Chile, and its experience is a lot more relevant to America’s real problems.

The economic and moral case for health care reform in America, reform that would make us less different from other advanced countries, is overwhelming. One of these days we’ll realize that our semiprivatized system isn’t just unfair, it’s far less efficient than a straightforward system of guaranteed health insurance.


http://nevadathunder.com/?p=359

Publius
16th November 2005, 21:05
Good article.

I'm actually considering supporting a national system, but that's a complex topic.

But I find it funny you're agreeing with Krugman, a decidedely bourgeious economist who supports free-markets quite generally.

JKP
16th November 2005, 21:45
Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 01:10 PM
Good article.

I'm actually considering supporting a national system, but that's a complex topic.



Statist.

Amusing Scrotum
16th November 2005, 22:35
I'm actually considering supporting a national system, but that's a complex topic.

Care to explain? ....have any of us managed to change your opinion? :o


But I find it funny you're agreeing with Krugman, a decidedely bourgeious economist who supports free-markets quite generally.

Even the bourgeois can get some things right some of the time.


Statist.

The way he's going we'll have to un-restrict him. :lol:

Publius
17th November 2005, 00:08
Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 09:50 PM




Statist.

Not really.

I don't like the idea, but you have to realize, we PAY for a national system now.

Over 60% of health care costs in the US are payed by the government, and we spend almost double most other countries.

For the moneyh we ALREADY SPEND, we could have a single-payer system that would be a lot better than what we have now.

It could actually be cheaper than what we pay now, by getting us out of these wasteful deals with drug companies and such.

I have a lot of ideas about how it could work, because anything is better than what we have now.

We pay for a national system and don't get, what kind of deal is that?

I could easily see education entering the domain of public utilities as with schooling.

I think it could become necessary.

Publius
17th November 2005, 00:33
Care to explain? ....have any of us managed to change your opinion? :o

No.

I'm not really settled on the issue yet. It seems logical, but I haven't seen any real research.

I'm logical above all, espescially dogmatic.

truthaddict11
17th November 2005, 19:15
i am acutally quite confortable with my insurance plan, I pay 60 a month and able to go to almost any doctor I like, add a low copay for visits and percriptions and it pays off for me. I rarely get sick enough to have to go to a doctor or get a perscription.
I dont see a national plan working because of how bureaucratic and unreliable some government services are I dont really trust the government in doing a good job with it unless it was privatized.

Publius
17th November 2005, 20:05
i am acutally quite confortable with my insurance plan, I pay 60 a month and able to go to almost any doctor I like, add a low copay for visits and percriptions and it pays off for me. I rarely get sick enough to have to go to a doctor or get a perscription.
I dont see a national plan working because of how bureaucratic and unreliable some government services are I dont really trust the government in doing a good job with it unless it was privatized.

From: http://www.socialistworker.org/2005-2/565/...reaucracy.shtml (http://www.socialistworker.org/2005-2/565/565_09_Bureaucracy.shtml)

I love the source.

:lol:

Interestingly, I disagree with everything in the article except this:



A 2004 study by Harvard Medical School researchers and Public Citizen found that the health care bureaucracy cost the U.S. $399.4 billion, and that a national health insurance system could save at least $286 billion annually on paperwork. That would be enough money to provide all of the 43 million uninsured in the U.S. plus provide full prescription drug coverage for everyone in the U.S.

The study found that bureaucracy accounts for 31 percent of U.S. health care spending, whereas in Canada, whose national health care system still hangs on, bureaucracy accounts for only 16.7 percent of health care spending and manages to provide more health services per dollar spent.

A nationally funded and planned health care system in the U.S. would deliver more service for less cost. But then again, health care in the U.S. isn’t about helping people, but about a tiny number of capitalists making a large amount of money.



The current Health Care system is not efficient. Perhaps a market system could be more efficient; it seems logical. But why risk it, when we KNOW a nationalized system is at least marginally effective, wheras our system is, quite simply,a failure.

Foreign governments do a better job than our corporate system, for a number of reasons.

The only alternatives I see are massive market movements and an end to all government health aid, or state-run health care.

I'd prefer either over what we have now.

I'd PREFER the market system, but you have to look at this rationally, not ideologically. I don't think it's possible.

That's the sad fact.

So I may as well support what WILL happen (And it will), and try to make it as good as possible than fight the impossible.

truthaddict11
18th November 2005, 05:06
are you quotinmg me correct puplius? i am using my own example I never used any source.

Publius
18th November 2005, 12:11
are you quotinmg me correct puplius? i am using my own example I never used any source.

No. Sorry for the confusing quote, I was referenceing my source.

Apologies.

poster_child
24th November 2005, 07:45
Canada's system isn't perfect anymore. We see our system crumbling. Wait times are unreasonable. We're seeing the emergence of private health insurance in Quebec. Now, in British Columbia, we're seeing "member's only" clinics popping up. People are finding loopholes to th system. Before we know it.. it will be just like the US, and people who aren't "good enough" for the good heath care will get the underfunded hospitals, and the rich will get the 5 star hospitals. It's sickening.

Money cannot buy good health!!