What do you think of this?

[RebelOutcast]

I and Additives Free go to school with a capitalist, normally this wouldn't be a problem as we have a knack of arguing people to our way of thinking, but this capitalist seems to think that he is ALWAYS right and he has absolutely no virtues. He is also a rampant sexist, apparently women are never right simply because they are female and he supports the objectification of women.

So here's the chatlog, this conversation started because he had used the television series "Lost" as an example of society, accompanying the analogy with text ripped straight from Capmag (http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4221), everyone's favourite source of capitalist bullshit, I then used the internet as an example of anarchist society and the rest is here in this post. I am OnePointSixOneEight.



The Ghost of the Navigator says:
the internet is like a gate through which information gets through, dumbass
OnePointSixOneEight says:
I'm talking in the context of it being a model society
OnePointSixOneEight says:
I can use it as a model of anarchist society
OnePointSixOneEight says:
everyone is equal on the internet
OnePointSixOneEight says:
no one has more or less power than anyone else
OnePointSixOneEight says:
and yet it seems to run smoothly
OnePointSixOneEight says:
even with no one policing it
OnePointSixOneEight says:
anything to say to that?
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
the internet acn't really be applied to real life, can it?
OnePointSixOneEight says:
It can be used as a model of anarchist society
OnePointSixOneEight says:
and it's far more accurate than your example of Lost
OnePointSixOneEight says:
seeing as it includes real people
OnePointSixOneEight says:
and isn't scripted
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
how about rather then arguing for anarchism, you try and fight against capitaism. where would you be without it? i'll tell you where: living in a cave. thank whoever invented the feudal system
OnePointSixOneEight says:
the feudal system is an example of capitalism
OnePointSixOneEight says:
although rather crude
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
im know, and it united the babarian tribes of europe in the middle ages and gave europe the srong economy it has today
OnePointSixOneEight says:
not really, I can argue that the industrial revolution did that
OnePointSixOneEight says:
and europe doesn't really have a strong economy
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
the industrial revolution wouldnt have happened if it wasnt for feadalism
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
and europe is stronger than a lot of countries
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
hence 'western society'
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
the best the world has to offer
OnePointSixOneEight says:
Lol
OnePointSixOneEight says:
not really if you value your freedom
OnePointSixOneEight says:
the western world has some of the least liberal societies there are
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
hey, im happy living how i am now
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
why cant you be?
OnePointSixOneEight says:
Because I'd rather see a society where everyone has a decent quality of life, where people don't profit from the exploitation of others and of the environment, to name a few reasons
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
okay, so u keep complaining like an old man in a home and ill get out and make the most this society has to offer. is that ok?
OnePointSixOneEight says:
I'm not complaining like an old man in a home
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
yes u r
OnePointSixOneEight says:
and what would "makeing the most this society has to offer" be?
Exploiting people for profit? Making Single parents work 10 hour days just so you can afford to buy a supercar? Working third world children to death in sweatshops just so you can afford to pay men and women a measly wage to lick your ass clean for you?
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
i work to make my life better, even if i help others and exploit others on the way, as long as i can retire comfortably and get some sort of automatic ass-licking machine and try to make a difference in science along the way: i dont care
OnePointSixOneEight says:
So really you don't want to see change in society because as far as you can see it works for you? You have a comfortable life and anyone who you percieve to threaten the system that gives you your lifestyle should be locked up in prision?
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
yes
OnePointSixOneEight says:
So what happens if one day the system does fail and suddenly you find yourself on the street, like what happened to millions of people all around the world during the great depression?
OnePointSixOneEight says:
can they go fuck themselves then?
OnePointSixOneEight says:
if what they have to offer gives you a more comfortable life?
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
im quite confident that that wont happen in my lifetime
OnePointSixOneEight says:
there's a good chance that it could
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
believe me, it wont. remember, i am always rigth
OnePointSixOneEight says:
No your not, abstaining from answering a question does not make you right.
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
yes i am
OnePointSixOneEight says:
If you're always right, then what number am I thinking of, It's between 0 and 100 and it's an even number, you have to answer with a number and not simply an "I don't know" because, as I said abstaining from answering a question does not make you right or correct.
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
that's not the point, i am always right can include: 'i dont know'
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
ok, then, everything i say is never wrong
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
better?
OnePointSixOneEight says:
It's just a different form of your original sentence, and no it's not
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
it implies or infers that everything i say cannot be wrong though, therefore, i do not know is true, correct and inarguable-against by any smart person
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
implying if u argue, ur not smart
OnePointSixOneEight says:
With an IQ of 132 I'm smarter than most of the country
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
differnet form of smartness


I got rather bored of the conversation after this, but I believe all his arguements for capitalism/against anarchism are represented, It also shows an example of his "righteousness".

Additives Free can post about the sexism.

Are there any suggestions on how to persuade him, preferably not including violence?

[Forward Union]

This is funnier.


The Ghost of the Navigator says:
i said that women cant be right 100% of the time because they are too impartial
Additives Free
What's gender got to do with anything? no one can be right 100% of the time. A lot of the time Right and Wrong are a matter of perception
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
havnt u learnt anything?!?!?!
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT
Additives Free,
Actually, you've already lost this debate. And to be honest your proclaimations do nothing other than give me the impression that you failed to progress your debating skills from that of an infant
Additives Free,
I am right. You are wrong. And unless you actually "Poove" otherwise, I don't want to hear anymroe of your patheticly childish bullshit
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
if u must know, i ahve won many a debate at my old school
Additives Free, the
Grow up, and learn to argue with facts before you try and engage with me and (Rebel outcast).

......

The Ghost of the Navigator says:
u cant actually say that i was thinking entirely straight then, though was i, and my plan is to deny, apologise and recant whenever i am comfronted
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
*confronted
Additives Free
What? your saying you were pissed, and that you appologise?
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
yes
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
ok ill admit that that was a gross over-generalisation and was one of the 0.1% of the times i was wrong

The best bit....

The Ghost of the Navigator says:
i was never taught to be sexist, i was just caught in the moment
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
oh god, what have i done?!?!
Additives Free
God dosn't exist.
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
u know wot i mean though

[RebelOutcast]

The really funny part is that he came from a public school(you have to pay at a public school) and he believes that he can fit in because people will conform to his opinions. The fact is that very few people actually like him and he spends most of his free time in the library, he used to go to the various "parties" that were held by various members of the 6th form, but due to his sexist opinions has basically been ostracised.

[RedGeorge]

What a guy... "Sorry I was a sexist asshole, but I was drunk, y'know...". And all this "I'm only wrong 0.1% of the time" crap, I can understand why no one likes him. This bloke seems like someone I know who likes to argue righteously about things they know nothing about, and often it turns out they have no argument at all; they just say stuff for effect. Just saying "I'm always right" is not a good way to convince people. If I were you I'd just keep laughing at him, and maybe one day he'll get the point.

[KC]

OnePointSixOneEight says:
I'm talking in the context of it being a model society
OnePointSixOneEight says:
I can use it as a model of anarchist society
OnePointSixOneEight says:
everyone is equal on the internet
OnePointSixOneEight says:
no one has more or less power than anyone else
OnePointSixOneEight says:
and yet it seems to run smoothly
OnePointSixOneEight says:
even with no one policing it
OnePointSixOneEight says:
anything to say to that?

The problem with this analogy is that there are people with more power on the internet. The people that own the private domains have more power than the people that don't. Plus I just find it to be a horrible analogy.


The Ghost of the Navigator says:
how about rather then arguing for anarchism, you try and fight against capitaism. where would you be without it? i'll tell you where: living in a cave. thank whoever invented the feudal system

Explain to him that capitalism is better than what came before it, and what will come after capitalism (communism/anarchism/whatever you believe in; I would say communism) is better than capitalism.


OnePointSixOneEight says:
the feudal system is an example of capitalism

The feudal system is an example of feudalism, not capitalism. They are two different structures, both existing at two different periods in time.


The Ghost of the Navigator says:
im know, and it united the babarian tribes of europe in the middle ages and gave europe the srong economy it has today

Greece, Rome, Egypt, etc... weren't barbaric, and they predated feudalism.


OnePointSixOneEight says:
not really if you value your freedom
OnePointSixOneEight says:
the western world has some of the least liberal societies there are

Not completely true.


The Ghost of the Navigator says:
hey, im happy living how i am now
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
why cant you be?

He obviously doesn't realize that he is being stolen from.


OnePointSixOneEight says:
So really you don't want to see change in society because as far as you can see it works for you? You have a comfortable life and anyone who you percieve to threaten the system that gives you your lifestyle should be locked up in prision?
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
yes

Give it 20 or 30 years and we'll see where he's at; either agreeing with you, or dead.

[Forward Union]

The feudal system is an example of feudalism, not capitalism. They are two different structures, both existing at two different periods in time.

Yea. Although, Feudalism did have a weak capitalist economic structure. It's been refereed to as Proto-Capitalism. But as far as its matters we are correct.


Greece, Rome, Egypt, etc... weren't barbaric, and they predated feudalism.

A fair point, I hadn't thought of that. Taking it further, I believe Rome united the tribes in Europe, not totally, but to a degree. The structure of the Roman Empire did vary though


Give it 20 or 30 years and we'll see where he's at; either agreeing with you, or dead.

I dunno, he may well get a middle class Job and become a card carrying Conservative Party member.

[KC]

I dunno, he may well get a middle class Job and become a card carrying Conservative Party member.


He can stand on the side of the proletariat or the bourgeoisie. We will find out in 20-30 years.

[Goatse]

When I read this to start with, I just thought, "What a poor misguided cappie," since he (kinda) knows what happens under capitalism but doesn't care about other people. But then I read this:


The Ghost of the Navigator says:
believe me, it wont. remember, i am always rigth
OnePointSixOneEight says:
No your not, abstaining from answering a question does not make you right.
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
yes i am

And:


The Ghost of the Navigator says:
havnt u learnt anything?!?!?!
The Ghost of the Navigator says:
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT

I wouldn't waste your braincells talking to this fucking idiot.

[Publius]

He can stand on the side of the proletariat or the bourgeoisie. We will find out in 20-30 years.

Is someone going to ask him at the high school reunion?

:lol:

[RebelOutcast]

Is someone going to ask him at the high school reunion?

publius, witty as always
We don't traditionally have school re-unions here in the UK.

[Publius]

publius, witty as always
We don't traditionally have school re-unions here in the UK.

Or revolutions either.

Zing.

[RebelOutcast]

Although I like the quote from Gnosis, the self proclaimed "fool", although I thought "Idiot" would have been more appropriate.

[farleft]

The guy sounds like a waste of space, people like this you should not keep on and on trying to change their stupid views and opinions its a waste of time, people like this need to be killed like any other vires so that he doesnt spread the nonsence crap he talks.

[CCJ]

I stopped reading half-way through. He's just plain stupid. Something tells me he knows very little to nothing about history, also.

[kingbee]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 08:20 PM



publius, witty as always
We don't traditionally have school re-unions here in the UK.

Or revolutions either.

Zing.
come on!

there was one a few hundered years back....

[Korol Aferist]

Are you sure you,your other friend, and this dumb cappie are not in special ed?

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Korol [email protected] 18 2005, 05:28 PM
Are you sure you,your other friend, and this dumb cappie are not in special ed?
No, we do A-Levels. Or College level education. Your either smart enough to do the work, or your not on the course.