DO YOU KNOW JUAN PERON??

[Moncho Brujo]

I KNOW THAT HE DIDN T LIKE CAPITALISM, BUT HE WAS NT COMMUNIST, he helped the poor people and he is very know here althogh he governed in the 50 and 70

[redstar2000]

I've only read a small amount on Argetine history. My impression is that he was a "soft" version of Mussolini...that is, he admired Italian fascism but never introduced in Argentina the severe repressive characteristics of Italian fascism.

I think he was a little frightened of Argentina's large German community; after World War II, many Nazi refugees ended up living in Argentina...and Peron's government was uncooperative, to say the least, in apprehending any of them and returning them to Europe for war crimes trials.

My own not-very-well-informed opinion is that Evita Peron deserves the real credit for Juan's "populist" reputation. She coined the phrase "the shirtless ones" to describe the desired base of support for Peron and probably pursuaded her husband to implement whatever real reforms actually took place.

What's really needed is a very elderly Argentine communist who could tell us what it was really like in Argentina when Peron was in power.

:cool:

[Moncho Brujo]

thank you for your opinion, i respect what you say but i don t agree, it s true what you say that he left some nazis to enter this conutry and i don t like it, but for me he made a lot of things that make that thing small.
viva brujeriaaaa!

[CheViveToday]

You can learn a lot about Peron and that time period in Argentina by watching the movie Evita, altought I'm not sure I should really recomend that because it's probably not completely accurate. My Spanish teacher told me that Peron was somewhat of a buddy of Mussolini, and Hitler. He did show much more interest however, for the poor people of Argentina than his predecessors. At least, he was what the people at the time wanted. I'm reading a book about Che right now and he was not a huge fan of Peron, but he urged his relatives to vote for him, because Peron would serve their interests the best out of all the candidates. Hope this helped anyone a little.

[Larissa]

Yes, most of what you all said is true. The US gov had always tried to figure out what type of ideology was the peronism. Besides "nationalism", it was like a labour-left party but supported in some extent rightist such as Franco in Spain. He hid some nazis in our country and accepted some Nazi gold as well and he didn't want to be pointed at as a leftist. I think he was very smart and he really did lots of good things in my country. For instance, he gave the working class a real chance to play an important rol in politics. He built public hospitals, public schools, developed many housing plans fro workers. Of course, he was not an idiot. He had been Secretary of Labour before he became president and new the workers and the poor made an interesting figure (number) as they were a majority (oppressed by the rich elite minority).

He also nationalized oil US companies.

IMO, Evita (although she lacked of education) was a real leftist and progressive woman - but I don't think she was aware of it. She really represented the people. She really cared about the people, maybe because she was very poor and she had been oppressed and discriminated. But she was truly concerned for others and had no further (personal or political) intentions than people's welfare. Her true love for others can be compared to Che's love for people.

Juan Peron was more speculative. He was more "brains" than "heart". Evita was exactly the opposite.

[Anonymous]

I don't have any liking for Peron and his fascist counterparts. Down with imperialism!


http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_review.../01/010301.html (http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/1997/01/010301.html)

[Larissa]

Quote: from Moncho Brujo on 12:49 am on Feb. 3, 2003
thank you for your opinion, i respect what you say but i don t agree, it s true what you say that he left some nazis to enter this conutry and i don t like it, but for me he made a lot of things that make that thing small.
viva brujeriaaaa!
Moncho, off topic, dónde vivís?

[Rastafari]

Che didn't like Peron, his parents were strong anti-Peron people. Che did respect a few on the non-fascists things Peron did, as he was the best thing for a South American Nation at that time. I don't like him because I think he was a Fascist at heart who realized the importance of the poor to his staying in power.

[CheViveToday]

Oh yeah, there's another Argentina/Nazi connection I remember. There was always that old [obviously false] theory that Hitler escaped demise at the end of WWII and hid in Argentina. Did you also hear that his eyes turned blue after he shot himself? Yeah, one blew this way, and the other blew that way. HAHAHAHA! Okay. Sorry. Anyways the Soviet Union has the death report of Hitler since they discovered his body and they recorded that he only had one testical. Just thought you might [probably not though] want to know.

[Moncho Brujo]

LARISSA, VIVO EN BUENOS AIRES , MAS PRECISAMENTE EN PILAR ME GUSTO MUCHO LO QUE ESCRIBISTE GRACIAS.

[El Brujo]

Most sources call Peron a fascist but this isn't entirely true. Peron's ideology was described as "third position", a pretty ambiguous and opportunist combination (it is either leftist or right-wing, depending on convenience), that is why Peronist factions were extremely divided during the 70's up to today (the CIA-backed coup in 1976 was against Peron's wife/vice president and mostly cracked down on radical, leftist, Peronistas).

Che mostly admired Peron because of his anti-imperialism. He mainly stressed making Argentina self-dependent. It definitely had socialist tendencies also because it reformed the previous extreme-bourgeoisie system and the main followers were los descamisados, a working class force. My grandfather was of the leftist Peronista faction and I think he once mentioned that Chile (under Allende) and Cuba recognized his government when he returned from exile in 1973. Rather than socialist, I would call it an “extreme welfare state” because most of the help to the poor included direct financial assistance and gifts (he did, of course, nationalize much of the industry as well).

[Larissa]

Quote: from Moncho Brujo on 1:35 am on Feb. 4, 2003
LARISSA, VIVO EN BUENOS AIRES , MAS PRECISAMENTE EN PILAR ME GUSTO MUCHO LO QUE ESCRIBISTE GRACIAS.
Estuve viviendo en Pilar durante 4 años y ahora volví a Capital. :-) Nos vemos!

[praxis1966]

I remember seeing a History Channel documentary called the Odessa File. Ring any bells? Anyhow, according to this documentary, the former head of the NAZI secret police was a good friend of Juan Perone's. As a matter of fact, this guy was seen often making public appearances with Eva. The HC even had old news reel footage of the two together.

In any case, the Perones were alleged to have smuggled many NAZIs accused of war crimes out of Germany after the war (I think some one mentioned this before).

One of the most prominent NAZIs they did manage to get out was Josef Mengele. The Butcher of Auschwitz, as he was nicknamed, used to do "scientific" experiments on little children. He was especially fond of sets of twins. Mengele used to cut their backs open and then sew the two together. :shocked:

[Larissa]

Hi praxis1966, there is a lot of info about the "Nazi gold" connected to Peron in Simon Weisenthal's Oddessa's files.

We know about that.

Last night, I was watching an interview (on the Argentinean TV) to Joan Manuel Serrat, and he mentioned how difficult it was to explain argentinean politics in Europe. like he said: "You have a radical party that is not radical, but conservative. And, try to explain Peronism...it's so weird!"

And it is. Peronism, nobody understood it in the past because it was a "workers" movement with strong socialst charactristics, but it was not a lefty party, but some sort of a "rightist" one.

Today, after having experienced a highly capitalistic government of Menem (who is supposed to be a peronist) people understand less than ever what the hell Peronism is.

As you can see. Peronists like Menem and Duhalde are quite opposite. To me, Menem is not a peronist at all.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

IMO the PERONs were not fascists or communist they just had their goals set for Argentina and the descamisados.They did good things for the poor and working class but like in any decisions a goverment takes ,mistakes can be made.I read a lot of things about this period in argentinan history and the most interesting talks about the way that the argentinan poor got a better life but at the same time the industrys such as shipbuilding went to the ground.I think that Argentina is living something similar the right wing goverments created a false Idea of a first world country and overnight literaly It's infrastructure colapsed.
Going back to the Perons they are not heroes but never traitors to their nation,sometimes in history people exist wich can never be acurately categorized.

(Edited by Guardia Bolivariano at 2:05 pm on Feb. 8, 2003)