Log in

View Full Version : diy abortions



rioters bloc
11th November 2005, 11:07
this is a kinda serious [though vague] article i wrote, and on an issue that i think is necessary to be familiar with. so please, no jokes about coathangers and whatnot. cheers :)

i don't know much about abortions. that doesn't suprise me. womyn have little reproductive choice - we don't know what 'choices' exist. we don't have the right to an abortion, unless we can prove to the almighty state that our pregnancy will cause permanant psychological or phycial damage.

womyn have always known of many birth control and abortion methods - it's only recently that we;ve begun to fill our bodies with contraceptive pharmaceuticals and begged the state for a right to invasive clinical abortion procedures.

this isn't a guide so much as a call out to look beyond the beyond the medical abortion procedures which seem to be the only ones offered to us these days [when they're offered at all] and also to share any knowledge any womyn [or even men] have. i'm suggesting that current access to abortion is insufficient, and DIY is often the only option for some womyn. i'm saying that if we are serious about womyn's reproductive rights and support womyns' control of womyn's bodies, we've got to provide alternatives and information - not enforce gaps of knowledge, nor reinforce taboo and secrecy.

last year, australian federal health minister tony abbott told the media that over 100 000 australian womyn have abortions every year. he's since retracted that statement [since it was a blatant lie] but he's still pushing a very anti-choice agenda. he fails to also say that australian womyn have no right to an abortion under law. most womyn who seek abortions are whiter, upper-middle class, tertiary educated womyn in their late 20s. few, if any, abortion clinics exist in rural or regional areas.

womyn's movements have long questioned the way the medical elite have controlled and defined womyn's health. womyn have used methods of birth control and termination for thousands of years. indigenous medical/healing practices have been [and continue to be] destroyed as a result of colonialism and imperialism. no womyn in my circle of friends knows about alternative methods, cultural or historical techniques, or abortifacient herbs beyond the old nirvana song about pennyroyal [nb: if you decide to use pennyroyal tea, be sure to drink it hot while you are warm. never ingest pennyroyal oil - it is lethal and you will die. :)]

black and blue cohash are two herbs which strengthen the uterus and can induce contractions. other helpful herbs include angelica, parsley leaf/root, tansey, rue, and cotton root bark. some of these herbs and stimulants are also used in birth processes, some to help relax or ripen the cervix. most herbs are brewed and used in tea. strain the tea before drinking - do not eat the leaves as they may be poisonous. :)

vitamin c is also regarded as useful for a 'natural' abortion, and as the least toxic and effective option. medical sources believe it interferes with progesterone, a hormone that controls menstrual and reproductive cycles.

mesntrual extraction is an abortion technique developed by the Los Angeles Self Help Clinic in 1971, prior to the legalisation of surgical abortion. the procedure is like suctional abortion, but with minimal suction and no cervical dilation. menstrual extraction is done within the first 6 weeks of pregnancy. this technique involves equipment which can be bought in a hardware store.

more recently, pharmaceutical developments such as the abortion pill also provide womyn with a method of pregnancy termination that is not clinical. the drug, effective up to 9 weeks pregnancy, provokes bleeding and prompts miscarriage.

DIY or 'natural' termination does not mean that it is safe. risks exist, and vary depending on the stage of pregnancy. all my sources remark that if alternative methods don't work, it is important to still follow through with the abortion even if it means surgical abortion.

there are many options available, and the choice is ours. it is important we make decisions that we are comfortable with. do your research and see a nutritionist for advice on herbs and intake. learn as much as you can about the plants you want to use, and get the advice of someone who has already used them before.

surgical abortion is an invasive pharmaceutical version of a practice that is thousands of years old. information on alternative abortion methods have been suppressed by medical establishments, religious institutions, and the state. much knowledge has been lost, and the few sources that exist are either incomplete or inconsistent. if we are truly pro-choice, we have to create abd share info that gives womyn real choice. we must challenge notions and practice of womyns' health and organise to take control of our bodies.

edit: for those not familiar with australia's stance on abortion, different states have different laws - most are anti choice. nsw [my state] law states: "Whosoever, being a woman with child, unlawfully administers to herself any drug or noxious thing, or unlawfully uses any instrument ot other means, with intent in any such case to procure her miscarriage, shall be liable to imprisonment for ten years." The same applies to accessories. abortion remains a crime according to the law.

grrrr i hate the state >:(

Commie Rat
11th November 2005, 11:11
Midwives and homebirths are the way to go
no doctors, no fees, no hospitals, no drugs

somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback
11th November 2005, 13:30
It&#39;s simply insane that the state forces you to keep an unwanted child. It&#39;s not a small change to have a baby&#33;&#33; Here in Belgium abortion has been legalized, however "patients" must wait for, I believe, 2-3 weeks of "reconsideration time" between their applying and the actual surgery. We were one of the first countries to legalize abortion (after the Netherlands) and I must say I was very happy with it. I&#39;ve even got an anecdote on the matter: The king (yes, we still have a king <_< ) at that time, Boudewijn, refused to sign the law that legalised abortion. In Belgium, every law has to be signed by the king to be in effect. In most cases, this is simply a formality, but in this particular case Boudewijn claimed he couldn&#39;t sign the law because of his personal beliefs (he was a catholic). So they used this trick: The king claimed he was ill and unable to perform his royal tasks for the during of the day, and since in such cases the prime minister can take over his task of signing the laws, there were no further problems and abortion in Belgium has been legal since 1990 :)

Interesting article anyway, however I would advise preffering surgical abortion over alternative methods, I&#39;d still trust a doctor better :mellow:

Is abortion legal in the US, or is it also legalized per state? (And if so, which I think it is, in what/how many states is it legal?)

ComradeOm
11th November 2005, 23:56
Without going into the whole abortion issue... I&#39;d wonder just how safe a diy abortion would be. Obviously my knowledge is limited on this but I&#39;d be interested in whether there were any figures for death or injuy caused by trying diy abortions. From what I&#39;ve heard it is pretty risky.

Jimmie Higgins
12th November 2005, 00:16
When I was in high school I was really into punk and diy culture. I have reatined some of thoes values (mostly the aestetic stuff like black and white photoccopies are more beautiful to me than a landscape done in the richest most expensive oil paints).

Diy is good for pamphlets and art and so on to encorage and allow people to become more involved with society in a direct way. It&#39;s the democratization of the arts and I think with surges in revolutionary movements, we are likely to see people become more active in creating art and spreading their own ideas through pamphlets and so on.

However, I don&#39;t think things like health care should be DIY. We have that already it&#39;s called being poor and not having acess to health care or medical treatment. DIY abortions should be a last resort, instead of teaching women how to do this themselves we should seek to keep it legal and make it more acessible for everyone who needs it as with all other medical procedures and treatments.

which doctor
12th November 2005, 00:52
Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 08:30 AM
Is abortion legal in the US, or is it also legalized per state? (And if so, which I think it is, in what/how many states is it legal?)
Yes, due to Roe vs. Wade, abortion in the US is legal. It&#39;s a constitutional law so, it must be observed in all 50 states. However state laws vary on whether there must be mandatory counseling, waiting period before operation, or parental notification.

And I was wondering how late you can get abortions in the US?

rioters bloc
12th November 2005, 00:56
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 10:56 AM
Without going into the whole abortion issue... I&#39;d wonder just how safe a diy abortion would be. Obviously my knowledge is limited on this but I&#39;d be interested in whether there were any figures for death or injuy caused by trying diy abortions. From what I&#39;ve heard it is pretty risky.

it is. mainly because people don&#39;t know much about it, due to suppression of information. i know of different herbs that are used in my culture [and were used by grandparents/greatgrandparents] but i don&#39;t know if we can get them in australia or even what the english translation is.


However, I don&#39;t think things like health care should be DIY. We have that already it&#39;s called being poor and not having acess to health care or medical treatment. DIY abortions should be a last resort, instead of teaching women how to do this themselves we should seek to keep it legal and make it more acessible for everyone who needs it as with all other medical procedures and treatments.

your idea of health care, however, is that which is practiced by &#39;certified doctors&#39; - i&#39;m saying that there are other forms of medical treatment which have been used for years and have worked, but are now no longer advertised because that way a womyn would not have to go through the state in order to get an abortion - and governments don&#39;t want that. diy abortions should be a last resort [unless a womyn doesn&#39;t want to go through invasive surgery, in which case it can be her first resort - it is her body after all] but that is why i&#39;m saying that diy abortions need to be publicised and should be made available for womyn. because there&#39;s no point in having a last resort that is incredibly risky and dangerous. i&#39;m asking for any information that people have on safer methods of aborting.

i&#39;m not saying that diy abortions are the alternative to trying to legalise abortion. i&#39;m saying that it is something which should be looked into and publicised as well as fighting against anti-abortion legislation. since i believe that revolution is a process, i think it&#39;s necessary to know how to circumvent state repression as well as fighting it.

if womyn are able to get access to surgical abortion and want to, then i definitely advocate that over diy abortions. sadly though, for most womyn of lower classes, particularly ethnic and indigenous ones, this is easier said than done.

edit: totally screwed up the quote tags :P

Nothing Human Is Alien
12th November 2005, 07:37
Did you join the MIM? What&#39;s up with "womyn"?

rioters bloc
12th November 2005, 07:46
i&#39;ve used it for quite a while now. if you have an issue with it, take it up here:

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...9&hl=oppressive (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=36479&hl=oppressive)

and what&#39;s the MIM?

Redmau5
12th November 2005, 12:35
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 07:37 AM
Did you join the MIM? What&#39;s up with "womyn"?
Yeah I was gonna say that as well.


and what&#39;s the MIM?

It&#39;s the Maoist International Movement, or some shit like that. They tend to spell the word "women" wrong.

rioters bloc
12th November 2005, 12:43
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 11:35 PM

and what&#39;s the MIM?

It&#39;s the Maoist International Movement, or some shit like that. They tend to spell the word "women" wrong.
ahhk.

well then no. it&#39;s the word that radical feminists use for womyn [either that or wimmin, other variations also exist].

somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback
12th November 2005, 14:09
:unsure: And why is that?

Che NJ
12th November 2005, 15:25
Is it so you don&#39;t have "man" in your name?

rioters bloc
12th November 2005, 22:30
i&#39;ll refer you to this thread http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...pressive&st=150 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=36479&hl=oppressive&st=150)

only because i don&#39;t want this turned into yet another thread about the spelling of womyn :)

Nothing Human Is Alien
13th November 2005, 05:23
It&#39;s a corny semantics game that will accomplish nothing other than confusing and alienating people that can be won over to the cause of their own liberation. In my opinion it&#39;s right up there with "being revolutionary" by painting your finger nails black and growing a mohawk. If you want to do it, do it -- but don&#39;t pretend it&#39;s revolutionary in any sense.

The irony is of course, the actual origins of the word:


The English term "man" (from Proto-Germanic mannaz "man, person") and words derived therefrom can designate any or even all of the human race regardless of their gender or age. This is indeed the oldest usage of "man". In Old English the words wer and wyf (also wępman and wifman) were what was used to refer to "a man" and "a woman" respectively, and "man" was gender neutral. In Middle English man displaced wer as term for "male human", whilst wyfman (which eventually evolved into woman) was retained for "female human".

Nothing Human Is Alien
13th November 2005, 05:28
and what&#39;s the MIM?

A wacked out psuedo-Maoist cult made up mostly of middle class white college students. They&#39;re the only people I&#39;ve seen womyn other than you in my life time (besides some decades old feminist literature)

Raisa
14th November 2005, 03:01
Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 01:30 PM
between their applying and the actual surgery. We were one of the first countries to legalize abortion (after the Netherlands) and I must say I was very happy with it. I&#39;ve even got an anecdote on the matter: The king (yes, we still have a king <_< ) at that time, Boudewijn, refused to sign the law that legalised abortion. In Belgium, every law has to be signed by the king to be in effect. In most cases, this is simply a formality, but in this particular case Boudewijn claimed he couldn&#39;t sign the law because of his personal beliefs (he was a catholic). So they used this trick: The king claimed he was ill and unable to perform his royal tasks for the during of the day, and since in such cases the prime minister can take over his task of signing the laws, there were no further problems and abortion in Belgium has been legal since 1990 :)

Interesting article anyway, however I would advise preffering surgical abortion over alternative methods, I&#39;d still trust a doctor better :mellow:

Is abortion legal in the US, or is it also legalized per state? (And if so, which I think it is, in what/how many states is it legal?)
"It&#39;s simply insane that the state forces you to keep an unwanted child. It&#39;s not a small change to have a baby&#33;&#33; Here in Belgium abortion has been legalized, however "patients" must wait for, I believe, 2-3 weeks of "reconsideration time" "

I would argue that this is fucked up because the more its in your stomach the more it develops into a baby.

Nothing Human Is Alien
14th November 2005, 05:43
It&#39;s not a baby until it&#39;s seperate from the mother. Until then it&#39;s a fetus. I&#39;m not sure about this "more it develops into a baby" then.

"If life begans in the womb, why don&#39;t we have funerals for miscarriages?" - George Carlin.

novemba
16th November 2005, 06:01
CdL,

fetus&#39; are proven to be able to think, hear, and learn after the first trimester

KC
16th November 2005, 07:11
fetus&#39; are proven to be able to think, hear, and learn after the first trimester


That doesn&#39;t matter.

Latifa
17th November 2005, 08:19
Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 05:28 PM
It&#39;s a corny semantics game that will accomplish nothing other than confusing and alienating people that can be won over to the cause of their own liberation. In my opinion it&#39;s right up there with "being revolutionary" by painting your finger nails black and growing a mohawk. If you want to do it, do it -- but don&#39;t pretend it&#39;s revolutionary in any sense.

The irony is of course, the actual origins of the word:


The English term "man" (from Proto-Germanic mannaz "man, person") and words derived therefrom can designate any or even all of the human race regardless of their gender or age. This is indeed the oldest usage of "man". In Old English the words wer and wyf (also wępman and wifman) were what was used to refer to "a man" and "a woman" respectively, and "man" was gender neutral. In Middle English man displaced wer as term for "male human", whilst wyfman (which eventually evolved into woman) was retained for "female human".
Werewolf is actually more sexist than Woman. It was proved in Dinosaur Comics&#33;

cormacobear
17th November 2005, 11:08
you&#39;re not forced to keep the child anywhere i&#39;m aware of adoption or orphanages are available most places. Both my sister and I were adopted, and I kind of like being alive....most of the time. I think clinical abortions should be available to those who wish though, since haveing extensive medical aid right at hand is a good idea for any procedure including childbirth. There have not been enough studies to ignore potential risks to self administered herbalism, in this case could include poisoning, allergic reaction, excessive blood loss, even stirility. But where such inhumane laws exist you&#39;re options are limited.

In Canada midwives cost more for a delivery than in a hospital which is free in most Canadian hospials. :D And abortions are available upon request for 300 dollars or free for those living below the poverty line, and free if their physician deems it is for medical reasons.

Commie Rat
25th November 2005, 11:37
I meant having your friends as midwives(or midhusbands? we dont want to get sexist here) unless they are really stoogy they will not charge you&#33;

John Dory
30th November 2005, 02:49
The point of the pro-choice movement is so that womyn don&#39;t have to summit themselves to the dangers of "back alley" abortions. I would not recogmend a DIY abortion. There are a lot of sites that can help you find clinics, information, and what-not. For your own safety.