a revolution is coming lets unite!

[norwegian commie]

how and when do you think we can ecspect a communist/socialist revolution, not talking about the world reveluton but its beginning.

personally i think it will start in Latin America after the collapse of the USA.
wich i think will come in10-20 years.

Im sopose to talk about it in class and discuss theory with my school mates...
(their all cappies)

[andrew_the_fox]

i dont know when it's going to happen? Why did you want to pencil it in on your calendar so it doesn't interfere with your appointments? :lol: Who knows when it will happen. I think once enough people realize what bad shape the world is in, or when one of the trusted political leaders gets caught involved in something real bad, people will say, "hey this has to stop" they will realize, unite, and then rise up.

[Guerrilla22]

I only hope the US will collapse in the next 10-20 years, in all likely hood it will still be around. Untill then we need to support events that could bring about such change, like the recent events in Argentina.

[Master Che]

Hope it does collapse in the next 10-20 years and if it does i have a good feeling it would end like the Third reich. Personally i think the Revolution is already starting Communism is becoming increasinglly popular in Latin America, and the french riots etc.

[Guerrilla22]

The US capitalist machine is slowing down, however the country is a long way from econmic collapse, which was the main reason for the revoltuionary movement of the early 20th century.

[Correa]

The revolution has begun in Latin America. Trust me! :che: :cuba: :castro:

[Hefer]

Latin America is as good as communist. Hmmm lets think of a new name for this Union of Latin Republics ???

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 05:53 AM
Latin America is as good as communist. Hmmm lets think of a new name for this Union of Latin Republics ???
It'll be a long hard struggle yet.

Anyway, if/when it comes, how about the union of boliavarian socialist republics?? :P

[norwegian commie]

hehehe yeah.

i agree its still a struggle but people will someday realise the facts!
Latin America is already on the way
and i sure as hell will not stay here in Norway! :D

looking forward to the day i can live in a well organised funtioning socialist country!

[Master Che]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 05:53 AM
Latin America is as good as communist. Hmmm lets think of a new name for this Union of Latin Republics ???
Lol for some reason that reminds of of the USSR. But the question is whats will be the capital of the USLR? Communism is starting to rise in this continent and Capitalism is starting to fall it's only a matter of time, in about 10-20 years i can garrentee that all of South America will be Red.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 03:32 AM
The revolution has begun in Latin America. Trust me! :che: :cuba: :castro:
Mos definitely, I think we should focus on Hait though
The civil unrest and popular frustration makes it a breeding ground for revolutionaries

I don't think all Latin America will be red in the next 20yrs, but countries like Venezuela and Bolivia will mos definitely be socialist

But one thing we should worry about is Cuba
It seems like Condoleeza is ready to pounce on Cuba once Fidel dies
We must maintain Cuba socialist, for socialism to thrive in the region

[Master Che]

^Where did you hear that?

[Correa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 03:22 PM
......I think we should focus on Hait though
The civil unrest and popular frustration makes it a breeding ground for revolutionaries.....
Haiti has been abused so badly by the U.S. I am amazed a revolution has not taken place. Its like a militant right wing coup occurs monthly! Is there a movement in Haiti?

[Master Che]

A movement, i believe need's someone smart and determinded to start it. We need someone like Lenin who can make the people realize they've been shafted for a while. If someone would stand up like Lenin did then the rest would follow.

[Fighter]

Hey Norway,

If your theory is based on eventual collapse of the United States due to internal decision, and an abandonment of constitutional government, that's the only way it would work.

A "red" latin America would only serve to make America more tough about its borders and more "right wing". If any part of Latin America would invade the U.S., even as a People's Liberation Army, wouldn't they, and American revolutionaries, receive the same treatment given to any invader, and wouldn't they be slaughtered wholesale?

It is ironic that the most liberal people in America are the easiest to get to (San Francisco, Los Angeles, and New York, which in most people's leftist view would declare themselves not a part of the U.S., but would not welcome becoming a part of a greater association, except S.F., which may view itself as an international city, if all that makes sense), and equally ironic that the most die hard, loyal Americans are on the interior of the country.

What was the exact requirement of your school assignment? On what basis would the U.S. collapse within 20 years from now?

[bcbm]

It will happen when we make it happen. I'm tired of revolution being discussed in the passive, "When will somebody else do it?" sense.

[drain.you]

America is going to fall from being the power it is very soon (10-40years). definately in the majority of our life times, then we will let europe and china prove their worth. mind you, they will probably turn out as bad as america is now.

[youdontknowjake]

if want to know where make it here. if you want to know when make it now

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 01:45 AM
we will let europe and china prove their worth.
Europe has already proved "its worth" as a global power: just as bad as the US. China hasn't, but I can bet it will function the same as capital always does.

[norwegian commie]

What was the exact requirement of your school assignment? On what basis would the U.S. collapse within 20 years from now?

loots of scientist hav confirmated this theory...
here is a few things... Wars costs mone... their using riddiculus amounts of money on military they never use... plus the military they use you got quite a lot of cash...

her you see some things affecting the economy (http://tane.li/blog/archives/2005/10/more_interestin.html)

here is some moore things (http://collapse.search-now700.com/)

i have to go, ill get back to this

[norwegian commie]

[/QUOTE]It will happen when we make it happen. I'm tired of revolution being discussed in the passive, "When will somebody else do it?" sense. [QUOTE]

i totally agree! we must unite, we must fight back!
its exstreemly important to have a radikal counter weight to capitalism.
The communist counterweight is and will always bee important!

in my country the communists are few and they have completely wrong wiew on communism... feduralism
these are in the media and in the spotlight lots of times...
all they do is enhancing the wrong picture people's got on communism!


we are so fucking rich and spoiled that a communist alternative is rediculus.
Im mooving the hell out of here as soon as i got the cash

[norwegian commie]

If your theory is based on eventual collapse of the United States due to internal decision, and an abandonment of constitutional government, that's the only way it would work.

my theory is based on my revolutionary belives and the events happening in south america. People are rioting with red flags and ch guevara pictures!
Things are in motion, no doubt about it.

The problem is western interfearence.
i have heard that they are already planning a counter revolution.

[fernando]

Well right now 29 of the 34 Latin American nations claimed "loyalty" to the US by accepting to join their free trade plans. Changes have to be made, eventhough our leftist movement might be growing it is still in great danger of being destroyed by the Yankee imperialists. What will happen if Castro dies? The US would try to install a puppet regime there, which basicly means Cuba has to be defended from the imperialistic pigs! How will this be done? How will we defend ourselves against our foes? If we manage to build a strong socialist base we can be able to spread more openly!

[Correa]

When Castro dies the Cuban National Assembly will have to vote for a new head of state. Are you saying the US can influence this vote? I don't see how Castro dying would be an opportunity for the US to do something they were unable to do for the last 45 years.

[Master Che]

Many youth's in my country (Including myself) are beginning to hate are goverment, the us and the Capitalist system itself! Brazil may have joined bushes fucking free trade block but are numbers are getting bigger and the leftest Parties and movements are getting stronger. My group alone already has 70 members (Check my 4 steps to socialism topic to know what i'm talking about.) It is only a matter of time that these goddamn goverments will crumble.

[fernando]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 06:59 PM
When Castro dies the Cuban National Assembly will have to vote for a new head of state. Are you saying the US can influence this vote? I don't see how Castro dying would be an opportunity for the US to do something they were unable to do for the last 45 years.
Oh and you think everything will be fully ok when that happens? There would be a small temporary powervoid and in that void the US would strike, sending back the gusano terrorists and mafiosi from Miami to take over Cuba.

Besides would the Cuban masses so willingly follow anyone after Castro dies? Powervoid...

[Hefer]

Many youth's in my country (Including myself) are beginning to hate are goverment, the us and the Capitalist system itself! Brazil may have joined bushes fucking free trade block but are numbers are getting bigger and the leftest Parties and movements are getting stronger. My group alone already has 70 members (Check my 4 steps to socialism topic to know what i'm talking about.) It is only a matter of time that these goddamn goverments will crumble

I'm with you URSB, the youth and worknig class in Mexico also have had enough of this system; as well as the rest of the latin states.

[Luís Henrique]

Many youth's in my country (Including myself) are beginning to hate are goverment, the us and the Capitalist system itself!

Good thing if that was true...


Brazil may have joined bushes fucking free trade block

It hasn't.


but are numbers are getting bigger and the leftest Parties and movements are getting stronger.

Which parties and movements in Brazil do you consider leftist?


My group alone already has 70 members

Impressive. How do you manage to rally 70 people around you with no program, no strategy, and no funds?


(Check my 4 steps to socialism topic to know what i'm talking about.)

I thought we had done with that fantasy already?


It is only a matter of time that these goddamn goverments will crumble.

No, it isn't. It is a matter of much patient grassroots organisation, of in depth political analysis, of sound theoric construction, of much, much struggle. Class struggle, if you understand what I mean...

Luís Henrique

[Master Che]

Good thing if that was true...
WTF are you blind?



It hasn't.


Seen the news latelly?



Impressive. How do you manage to rally 70 people around you with no program, no strategy, and no funds?
Went and talked to people who would find it appealing, sent out and handed out lifflets.




I thought we had done with that fantasy already?
I thought we were done with the trolling and harrasment already?

[Luís Henrique]

Went and talked to people who would find it appealing, sent out and handed out lifflets.

Leaflets saying what?

Luís Henrique

[Correa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 02:29 PM
Oh and you think everything will be fully ok when that happens? There would be a small temporary powervoid and in that void the US would strike, sending back the gusano terrorists and mafiosi from Miami to take over Cuba.

Besides would the Cuban masses so willingly follow anyone after Castro dies? Powervoid...
Don't they have a chain of command? To suggest that the Cuban people will be surprised in shock and awe when Castro dies is odd. He is old and he is a mortal so I'm sure his death is expected. Perhaps Ricardo Alarcon will be elected?

[norwegian commie]

[CODE]Many youth's in my country (Including myself) are beginning to hate are goverment, the us and the Capitalist system itself! Brazil may have joined bushes fucking free trade block but are numbers are getting bigger and the leftest Parties and movements are getting stronger. My group alone already has 70 members (Check my 4 steps to socialism topic to know what i'm talking about.) It is only a matter of time that these goddamn goverments will crumble. [QUOTE]

my point exactly! socialism will rise, that i guarantee you.
the question is how and when.

In situations whre people are unhappy with the goverment, a leader rises from the streets and unites the people...
we saw this over and over during the cold war...

one must only prevent the counter revolution to sucseed...

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 10:49 PM
^Where did you hear that?
Its everywhere bro
Even their own media outlet admits it: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9881666/

My guess is that Castro has things already planned
But just in case, we and/or others socialists should start mobilizing for a resistance

[Luís Henrique]

In situations whre people are unhappy with the goverment, a leader rises from the streets and unites the people...

In situations where people are unhappy with the goverment, people organise and struggle against the government. Otherwise, nothing happens.

Luís Henrique

[norwegian commie]

[QUOTE]In situations where people are unhappy with the goverment, people organise and struggle against the government. Otherwise, nothing happens.
Luís Henrique [QUOTE]

of course correct, do not missread my text...
im all pro the dictaturship of the proletariat...

but a leader always rises...
look at the cuban revolution...
one needs a leader to unite the people, NOT controll them!
But a leader with a voice, vith the power to teach and unite the people!

A form of leader or "rolemodel" some form of this will always exist...
And during a revolution this will be more importat than ever

[my swordhand's anger]

I agree a revolution is imminent because all of nature is crying out for it. I feel that things are not right in this earth from a natural perspective. Too many natural disasters are telling a tale in advance. I'm not predicting The Apocalyse of the Bible but these natural omens we have witnessed in the last recent months harbinger some impending revolutionary upheaval.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 12:53 AM
Went and talked to people who would find it appealing, sent out and handed out lifflets.
So, what is written on those leaflets?

They seem a wonderful tool for revolutionary work, aren't you going to share their content with other comrades?

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by norwegian [email protected] 13 2005, 09:20 PM
but a leader always rises...
Leaders are built in day-to-day struggles.

Luís Henrique

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 05:53 AM
Latin America is as good as communist. Hmmm lets think of a new name for this Union of Latin Republics ???
How is Latin America communist, or even getting close to it, pray tell? Cuba is a socialist country, and genuinely trying to achieve communism, but that's the closest they'll get if we don't see a restoration of the socialist market relations existing with COMECON, and the ending of the U.S. blockade.

So what other Latin American countries do we have? Hugo Chavez is somebody who deserves our full support, but Venezuela, too, is far from communism, or even socialism. In the end, Venezuela is still a "liberal democracy", especially emancipated and with a good leadership perhaps, but still.

Anyway, the capitalist system of North America and Europe hinges on imperialism on one hand, and trade with each other on the other hand. So, for the revolution to come into fruition here, nations exploited by imperialism will have to fight themselves free, and the communists will have to guide the revolution from then onward. On that topic, allow me to quote an excellent post made on Soviet-Empire by The Immortal Goon:


Propaganda, propaganda, propaganda.

You'd have the usual high toned rhetoric - but you need something to pitch to the masses as well in order to get them in the door.

Next, you need to arm. This is tricky, because you have to come up with a reason to do so. Use the propaganda influence to blow up the next cop beating or shooting in the area as an excuse to arm neighborhood citizen watch-groups. Organize these and sit in them.

Continue the propaganda, and always meet any resistance you get, but let them up the ante, at least at first.

So, for instnace, the city has a protest. You deliberalty up the ante in the shadows here, and if the police use gas - you have the watchgroup with masks and gas back. If they use batons, you baton back. If they have rubber bullets; you shoot beanbags; and so on and so forth.

The system will not allow for it to be met with equal reaction and will always step up, and after it does, then you're only protecting yourself from their continued aggression.

In the meantime, you find unorganized labour and unofficially organize them and represent them to the best of your ability.

...And when the time is right, you declare a commune. Even if you fail, then the party survives and its first generation of dead will caputre the imagination of the next.

Basically, that's what I'd be gunning for.

[Master Che]

Originally posted by Matthijs+Nov 14 2005, 07:34 PM--> (Matthijs @ Nov 14 2005, 07:34 PM)
[email protected] 9 2005, 05:53 AM
Latin America is as good as communist. Hmmm lets think of a new name for this Union of Latin Republics ???
How is Latin America communist, or even getting close to it, pray tell? Cuba is a socialist country, and genuinely trying to achieve communism, but that's the closest they'll get if we don't see a restoration of the socialist market relations existing with COMECON, and the ending of the U.S. blockade.

So what other Latin American countries do we have? Hugo Chavez is somebody who deserves our full support, but Venezuela, too, is far from communism, or even socialism. In the end, Venezuela is still a "liberal democracy", especially emancipated and with a good leadership perhaps, but still.

[/b]
I think he didnt mean the Goverment but the actual people. I know many people here who are sick of Capitalism but their sorta brainwashed into thinking there's no way out it's a "work or die" situation for some of them, they hate how things are going but they dont know that if they unite and revolt they can change thing's. Which is why i think we should educate those people in Marxism so then they'll know they can do something.

[Purple]

staselig med enda en nordmann!

europe will not experience any revolutions for a long time. the spreading riots in france is lead by younger generations, of 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants mostly, which is not really a big percentage of the population. and a revolution is based on unity amongst the "common man", not individual rants or attitudes!

[red team]

I think its going to come sooner than you may think for North America. Just think about the demographic and economic situation for a while. The largest generation of workers are about to go into full retirement (the so-called baby boom generation). They were born between 1945 - 1950 which makes them 55 to 60 years old now. Within the next 5 to 10 years they'll be trying to collect their pensions, which you may all know in this climate of global cut throat capitalist competition is asking the impossible for the mega corporations that employ them (just think about competing against some company in China who pays some semi-literate peasant to do the same work for a buck a day). In order for these corporations to attract investors (or capitalists being the more political term) they must become "competitive". In business jargon this means lowering cost while maximizing profits which are to be paid back to the venture capitalists which invested into the company in the first place. Pensions for the retired workers are just one of the "costs" to be lowered. And don't think they won't do it. Many companies are already trying to weasel out of their pension obligations.

The privately invested companies (capitalist firms) are basically screwed in North America because the population size of the new generation of workers is much smaller than the one going into retirement thanks to decades of busting unions and lower labor costs. People after all are rational and they're not going to raise large families on subsistence wages. They can't skim off the wages of the next generation of workers to cover the cost of the pension plans of the retired workers, but the companies are incapable of dipping into their revenue stream to cover the cost either because of the above mentioned globally competitive environment. The only inevitable thing that they can do is lower the wages of the new generation of workers and bring in lots of cheap immigrant labor while at the same timer screwing over the ones going into retirement. This is very quickly going to turn the social structure of North America (Canada, USA) into something resembling a third world country with a tiny super wealthy elite and masses of poor people. This situation is highly unstable and will lead to social explosions like strikes and rioting. Whether a revolution will come out of it will depend upon subjective factors like whether leadership for a revolutionary party exists or not and how well they have prepared in advanced for such a situation.

[anomaly]

I'm one of those 'crazy' people who disagree with Marx on this point (I know, I should be hanged). I think that communist revolution will begin in Latin America sometime in the next half century. No country is yet fully industrialized, but if the entire continent unites, things could happen. The will is there, and as time passes, this revolutionary will should grow.

In the US, however, and Europe, the will is barely existent. Zero doubled is still zero. It's not going to happen.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by fernando+Nov 11 2005, 08:34 AM--> (fernando @ Nov 11 2005, 08:34 AM)
[email protected] 10 2005, 06:59 PM
When Castro dies the Cuban National Assembly will have to vote for a new head of state. Are you saying the US can influence this vote? I don't see how Castro dying would be an opportunity for the US to do something they were unable to do for the last 45 years.
Oh and you think everything will be fully ok when that happens? There would be a small temporary powervoid and in that void the US would strike, sending back the gusano terrorists and mafiosi from Miami to take over Cuba.

Besides would the Cuban masses so willingly follow anyone after Castro dies? Powervoid... [/b]
You're assuming the Cuban masses aren't educated. I'm betting they are educated and educated in socialism. A US invasion would be very unpopular and would probally face a higher death rate then Iraq.

The biggest problem that can arise from Castro's death is if revisionist take control and wish to liberalise trade and the economy. Then the Cuban people may face two fronts.

[my swordhand's anger]

Shit, you know how many tunnels the Cubans have built over the years and how many times the Cubans have war gamed a U.S. invasion of their island over the last 50 years? And I bet Castro has several nuclear suitcases left over from the Soviet era.

[Wanted Man]

Apart from the nuke part, which I doubt, any sources for the rest? Of course the Cubans have made a plan to defend their country, but any details? Of course since the fall of the Wall the Cuban army has been changed to a militia focused on fatherland defence, so even if the US manages to take the country, if this militia is focused well enough a very great insurgency could be the result.

My only hope is that after Fidel dies, Cuba doesn't get sucked up; not by American imperialism, nor by Chinese.

[red team]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 12:49 AM
In the US, however, and Europe, the will is barely existent. Zero doubled is still zero. It's not going to happen.
True it may not look that way right now, but things are brewing just underneath the surface.

The U.S. is the most indebted nation in the world and depends on inflows of capital from the rest of the world of two billion dollars a day just from keeping the government declaring the entire country bankrupt. But think about this for a moment, the current U.S. government is CUTTING taxes basing it on the ludricous supply-side economic idea that the richer a billionaire is the more likely he's going to hire you. No, a private company hires you based on how much profit they accumulate off of your work so they can pay back the investors of the company. Making a capitalist richer only makes him happier. He not going to throw in his loot into the market unless theres a good chance of returning a handsome profit no matter how rich he may be. The thing is the market place is global right now. Anybody with money can invest in shares in any company in the world across national boundaries and stuff the profits in private bank accounts somewhere in the Cayman island or Switzerland where its out of reach of national governments so why invest in overpriced labor here when you can get super cheap labor in some dirt poor third world country? The national debt of the U.S. is just going to grow out of control (huge armament expenditures for the war doesn't help either). After a certain point the whole economy of the country is just going to go into a tail spin. The social programs and even critical public services that people rely on that prevent them from being sick, starving or homeless will disappear. You don't think that thats going to get people riled up? Working people will find themselves in the situation where if they can find work they'll barely make enough to keep themselves alive and if they can't find work their left entirely destitiute. As for people going into retirement forget it. Their going to get screwed over. The whole retirement pension pyramid scheme is going to collapse. Not enough surplus value to extract from the small population of younger workers to give back to the older retired workers as I said before.

[norwegian commie]

Leaders are built in day-to-day struggles
Jesus, now you are yust twisting my way of saying it with quotes by Lois...
Come on, thats just stupid.
You cant say you dont agree with me. Just because youve picked up a few quotes here and there, that is no good way to proove your point.

[DisIllusion]

What the worldwide Revolution needs is a leader.
A upstanding moral image of what is possible with Communism, Leninism, Marxism, Anarchism whatever.
They must lead the people through all the shit that is inevitably going to happen with the collapse of capitalism and the beginnings of a revolution
They're going to have to be willing to die for the cause, like Che.

Anything else for a list of qualities of a good Revolutionary leader?

[Master Che]

Like i said

I think he didnt mean the Goverment but the actual people. I know many people here who are sick of Capitalism but their sorta brainwashed into thinking there's no way out it's a "work or die" situation for some of them, they hate how things are going but they dont know that if they unite and revolt they can change thing's. Which is why i think we should educate those people in Marxism so then they'll know they can do something.
If we can get too talk to those workers they will unite. All they need is someone smart , curageous , determined and inspiring to have the people realize this. Was Communism and Socialism in South America supported and followed as much before Chavez showed up?

[Luís Henrique]

All they need is someone smart , curageous , determined and inspiring to have the people realize this.

Let me guess...

YOU? :lol:


Was Communism and Socialism in South America supported and followed as much before Chavez showed up?

Because Chavez is a Communist?

Luís Henrique