Respect Coalition, UK

[John_worldrevolution.info]

Was wondering what people thought of the Respect coalition in the Uk, which at the last general election got an MP, George Galloway largely from the anti-war vote.

Apologies if a thread along these lines has been posted up before.

[bolshevik butcher]

I see them as worth critically supporting, but they are reformist and quite wishywashy, i read somewhere that they'd replaced class opression with religous opression in their manifesto as well, but i dont know how reliable that is.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

From the RESPECT website: Policies (http://www.respectcoalition.org/index.php?sec=39)

And my position: I broadly support RESPECT even if I do think George Galloway's a bit of a tit.

[farleft]

I dont like respect, they appeal to the muslims and religious groups and do not have a socialist platform, I was at a conferance in London of various left-wing groups (I was there with "The Socialist Party" not to be confused with the SWP) early in the year and a member of respect stood up and said that and I quote:

"this is not the time or place to discuss socialism"

Not sure which conferance, maybe it was socialism 2005, i cant remember now they have quite alot.

[bolshevik butcher]

agh, thats ridiculous. Yeh they really do seem quite wishywashy, centre leftist bordering libreals. They make the ssp look pretty radical in places. On the otherhand it's probably good to support them critically.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Respect are a bunch of reactionary idiots painting the name of the things they claim to stand for in a bad light for the general public. Galloway thrives on religious and racial conflict. He's a capitalistic person.

[kingbee]

i personally believe that george galloway is one of the few politicians with integrity left in the uk. he is a great debater, and actually stands up for his beliefs.

i believe he has been completely hounded by the media all on every side, and thus views of him are often very negative.

[YKTMX]

I dont like respect, they appeal to the muslims and religious groups and do not have a socialist platform,

What's wrong with "appealing to Muslims"? It seems to me that most Muslim people are working class and solidly anti-war. Perhaps they're a bit too, you know, DARK, for you and your comrades in the SP?


Respect are a bunch of reactionary idiots painting the name of the things they claim to stand for in a bad light for the general public.

Hey, Labour boy, why don't you concentrate on bringing social democracy to the supine masses and leave the real buisiness to us.


Galloway thrives on religious and racial conflict.

Lie.


He's a capitalistic person.

I don't even know what that means, but it sounds like bullshit.

[bolshevik butcher]

What's wrong with "appealing to Muslims"? It seems to me that most Muslim people are working class and solidly anti-war. Perhaps they're a bit too, you know, DARK, for you and your comrades in the SP?

Yes, we appeal to all working class peopel as socialsits but I think his criticizm was that respect was more interested in appealing to muslims because they were muslims rather than because they were working class.

[YKTMX]

Where's the evidence?

[RedGeorge]

Galloway is the best thing in British politics at the moment IMO... his party at least advocates socialism, which is more than fucking Labour do these days. And his appearances in America have been fantastic- I bet they didn't know what hit them.

Plus, whatever a "popinjay" is, it's my new favourite insult.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 10 2005, 02:23 PM
What's wrong with "appealing to Muslims"? It seems to me that most Muslim people are working class and solidly anti-war. Perhaps they're a bit too, you know, DARK, for you and your comrades in the SP?

Yes, we appeal to all working class peopel as socialsits but I think his criticizm was that respect was more interested in appealing to muslims because they were muslims rather than because they were working class.
Coming from an enitely Muslim family, you're suggestion about why I don't like Galloway appealing to Muslims is unfounded in my case. Indeed, my background just serves to make me despise the way he does it even more. Muslim people are just being used by him. He expresses no political ideology when talking to Muslim crowds, I have been there. He just goes on about Bush, the War etc. The usual nonsense. It rouses some, but the more aware are not fooled. He is just capitalising on discontent (hence, YouKnowTheyMurderedX, he is a "capitalistic" person).

Of course, it's nice to see someone take a seat that isn't of the three main parties. I would've chosen someone other than him though.

However, RedGeorge, where did he call someone a "popinjay"? That does sound like a class insult, especially thinking about it coming in a Scottish accent!

[John_worldrevolution.info]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 12:02 AM
What's wrong with "appealing to Muslims"? It seems to me that most Muslim people are working class and solidly anti-war. Perhaps they're a bit too, you know, DARK, for you and your comrades in the SP?

That's completely out of order.

[farleft]

YouKnowTheyMurderedX

He is a capitalist person means he DOESNT accept the average wage of a worker in the UK, he earns more.

Whats wrong with appealing to muslims is that they are religious, you shouldnt appeal to any religious group, its not because they are working class they want them.

I am not in the SP. As for being "too dark" how dare you, you know nothing about me, I dont give a shit if they are purple, no leftist can be racist, let alone a communist.

RESPECT are centre left, they are liberal reformists. This is why i dislike them because capitalism cannot be reformed, it must be replaced.

Please dont patronise me with terms like "boy" I am older than you and clearly wiser than you.

"Where's the evidence?" because something needs further explanation which i am happy to do, does not mean you should make up your own explanation and accuse me of it.

[YKTMX]

The usual nonsense. It rouses some, but the more aware are not fooled. He is just capitalising on discontent

Yeah, that's the job of socialists.


He is a capitalist person means he DOESNT accept the average wage of a worker in the UK, he earns more.


You don't know what capitalist means if you think that's a definiton.


Whats wrong with appealing to muslims is that they are religious

So are lots of people. Catholics in Ireland are "religious", perhaps this means we shouldn't support their struggle for a United Ireland? Some Palestinians are religious, maybe we shouldn't support their struggle?


This is why i dislike them because capitalism cannot be reformed, it must be replaced.


I agree. Respect is an electoral coalition of diffirent groups - the majority being socialists. Their aim is to give an electoral and political voice to anti-war, anti-privatisation voters. They're not "liberal reformists", which means something else entirely. Their platform is quite clearly a democratic socialist one.


Please dont patronise me with terms like "boy" I am older than you and clearly wiser than you.

I was calling Socialismo "Labour boy", not you. Oh, and I'd very much doubt the last part of that sentence, going by your contribution so far.

[h&s]

Originally posted by YouKnowTheyMurderedX+Nov 10 2005, 04:48 PM--> (YouKnowTheyMurderedX @ Nov 10 2005, 04:48 PM)Where's the evidence?[/b]
From the Leicester 'Respect' campaign leaflet, in a MIXED MUSLIM/HINDU/WHITE area: 'Vote Yvonne Ridley, the only Muslim candidate.'

I have yet to see anything that shows Respect as anything other than a reactionary organisation.


farleft
Not sure which conferance, maybe it was socialism 2005, .
You have a time machine? :P

[YKTMX]

From the Leicester 'Respect' campaign leaflet, in a MIXED MUSLIM/HINDU/WHITE area: 'Vote Yvonne Ridley, the only Muslim candidate.'


I don't know, you'd have to provide a source for that.


I have yet to see anything that shows Respect as anything other than a reactionary organisation.

That's more of a comment on you than Respect, I'm sure.

[YKTMX]

We stand for:

An end to the war and occupation in Iraq. We will not join any further imperialist wars.

An end to all privatisation and the bringing back into democratic public ownership of the railways and other public services.

An education system that is not dependent on the ability to pay, that is comprehensive and gives an equal chance in life to every child no matter how wealthy or poor their parents, from nursery to university.

A publicly owned and funded, democratically controlled NHS, free to all users.
Pensions that are linked to average earnings.
Raising the minimum wage to the European Union Decency threshold of £7.40 an hour.

Tax the rich to fund welfare and to close the growing gap between the poor and the wealthy few.

The repeal of the Tory anti-union laws.

Opposition to all forms of discrimination based on race, gender, ethnicity, religious beliefs (or lack of them), sexual orientation, disabilities, national origin or citizenship.

The right to self-determination of every individual in relation to their religious (or non-religious) beliefs, as well as sexual choices.

The defence of the rights of refugees and asylum seekers. Opposition to the European Union's 'Fortress Europe' policies.

We will strongly oppose the anti-European xenophobic right wing in any Euro referendum. But we oppose the 'stability pact' that the European Union seeks to impose on all those who join the euro. This pact would outlaw government deficit spending and reinforce the drive to privatise and deregulate the economy
and we will therefore vote 'No' in any referendum on this issue.

Support for the people of Palestine and opposition to the apartheid system that oppresses them.

An end to the destruction of the environment by states and corporations for whom profit is more important than sustaining the natural world on which all life depends.

We want a world in which the democratic demands of the people are carried out; a world based on need not profit; a world where solidarity rather than self-interest is the spirit of the age.

Let this be the rebirth of hope for those who have become disillusioned.


Quite 'reactionery', I'm sure you'll all agree. :rolleyes:

[RedGeorge]

Originally posted by Socialsmo o [email protected] 10 2005, 10:26 PM
However, RedGeorge, where did he call someone a "popinjay"? That does sound like a class insult, especially thinking about it coming in a Scottish accent!
I think he was talking about Christopher Hitchens, his sworn enemy in the media.

[YKTMX]

It was Hitchens. The Drunken Oaf approached GG before he testified to the Senate Committee. George called him a 'drunken former Trotskyite popinjay', sending the Drunken Oaf mumbling away. :lol:

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Well, I'll give him that. It's a quality word.

[h&s]

I don't know, you'd have to provide a source for that.
I could try and get a photocopy off my Leicester comrades if you don't believe me.



That's more of a comment on you than Respect, I'm sure.
Fuck off.


Quite 'reactionery', I'm sure you'll all agree. :rolleyes: .
Its not their policies I'm getting at - they're quite good - its the way they use them, and only ever seem to concentrate on certain ones.

[bolshevik butcher]

While they are certainly not hte ideal party, and there are far beter platforms out there, they're probably worth supporting critically in areas where there are no real socialsit candidates.

[pcb]

A broad front is what is needed, RESPECT is to be used as a platform to put across socialist ideals and bring politics back to the working class. The problem is that at present we are not going to get a revolution in the near future so lets use the system. we all have our differences but due to our beliefs in communism and socialism we fight the same enemy. If we say the word revolution are we talking about armed conflict or a revolution like the industrial or internet revolutions. Most people I know would scoff at the realisation of armed conflict on their streets. we must use the present system as best we can and try and educated the masses at the same time. Workers soviets are the way to go for me, but my collegues at work dont know enough about them. So we must use every opportunity to educate the working class. Point being the Left always shoots itself in the foot due to some theoretical point that would be lost on the ordinary working class. Come together under one banner and we are half way there.

[farleft]

He is a capitalist person means he DOESNT accept the average wage of a worker in the UK, he earns more.


You don't know what capitalist means if you think that's a definiton.

Thats not my definition of capitalism, its saying why GG is a capitalist individual, he wants more money than the average worker, therefore not a communist.


Whats wrong with appealing to muslims is that they are religious

So are lots of people. Catholics in Ireland are "religious", perhaps this means we shouldn't support their struggle for a United Ireland? Some Palestinians are religious, maybe we shouldn't support their struggle?

I am say dont support any religious group, support communist goals, which is non religious based (religion and communism are incompatible).


This is why i dislike them because capitalism cannot be reformed, it must be replaced.


I agree. Respect is an electoral coalition of diffirent groups - the majority being socialists. Their aim is to give an electoral and political voice to anti-war, anti-privatisation voters. They're not "liberal reformists", which means something else entirely. Their platform is quite clearly a democratic socialist one.

Their platform is quite clearly an opertunist one, taking advantage of religious hatred.


Please dont patronise me with terms like "boy" I am older than you and clearly wiser than you.

I was calling Socialismo "Labour boy", not you. Oh, and I'd very much doubt the last part of that sentence, going by your contribution so far.

Sorry Labour boy was a mistake, thought that was at me.
As for the wiser bit, I would say the same about you.

[farleft]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 12:07 PM
A broad front is what is needed, RESPECT is to be used as a platform to put across socialist ideals and bring politics back to the working class. The problem is that at present we are not going to get a revolution in the near future so lets use the system. we all have our differences but due to our beliefs in communism and socialism we fight the same enemy. If we say the word revolution are we talking about armed conflict or a revolution like the industrial or internet revolutions. Most people I know would scoff at the realisation of armed conflict on their streets. we must use the present system as best we can and try and educated the masses at the same time. Workers soviets are the way to go for me, but my collegues at work dont know enough about them. So we must use every opportunity to educate the working class. Point being the Left always shoots itself in the foot due to some theoretical point that would be lost on the ordinary working class. Come together under one banner and we are half way there.
Agreed that unity is needed, leftist groups are far too devided and it does hinder progress so much.
Yes with that done we would be half way there, the other half would be the violent revolution itself.

[RedGeorge]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 01:47 PM
Agreed that unity is needed, leftist groups are far too devided and it does hinder progress so much.

When I first started looking to see what different left-wing parties there were in this country, I was amazed to find the level to which the left is divided. I mean, for fuck's sake, there are about 4 or 5 different communist parties, and how can we ever get anywhere if we can't present a united front? Sure, a couple of the parties are very Stalinist in their nature (and thus shouldn't be allowed to join in), but that still leaves a hell of a lot of different groups (especially if you include the Socialist ones as well). Respect has got part of the way there in managing to unite a large group of left-wing parties, as some previous posters have pointed out, but it still needs to go much further in my opinion. Then perhaps it would be easier to persuade people to our views.

[h&s]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 12:07 PM
A broad front is what is needed, RESPECT is to be used as a platform to put across socialist ideals and bring politics back to the working class. The problem is that at present we are not going to get a revolution in the near future so lets use the system. we all have our differences but due to our beliefs in communism and socialism we fight the same enemy. If we say the word revolution are we talking about armed conflict or a revolution like the industrial or internet revolutions. Most people I know would scoff at the realisation of armed conflict on their streets. we must use the present system as best we can and try and educated the masses at the same time. Workers soviets are the way to go for me, but my collegues at work dont know enough about them. So we must use every opportunity to educate the working class. Point being the Left always shoots itself in the foot due to some theoretical point that would be lost on the ordinary working class. Come together under one banner and we are half way there.
Its all very good saying that, but what is the reality?
How can the left unite in a party that has been created from above, and is lacking in democracy?