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drain.you
7th November 2005, 07:31
Bush in Brazil subsidies promise
By Tom Gibb
BBC News, Brasilia

President Lula spoke of a growing Brazilian-American partnership
President George W Bush has told his Brazilian counterpart, Luiz Inacio Lula Da Silva, that the US will work towards eliminating its agricultural subsidies.

This, he said, was fundamental to move towards free trade around the world.

However, the move would depend on European willingness to do the same thing, Mr Bush said.

And in an apparent swipe at Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, he accused some nations of rolling back the democratic progress of the last 20 years.

Mr Bush gave his vision for the economic and democratic development of the Americas in a speech later on Sunday to political and business leaders in Brasilia.

On his way to meetings in the Brazilian capital, Mr Bush drove past a small but noisy group of protesters who shouted insults and burned his effigy.

Shared vision

Both presidents gave short statements before sitting down to a barbeque together at the Brazilian presidential retreat.

Anti-Bush protesters in Brasilia
Protesters made their anti-US feelings clear

President Lula spoke of a growing partnership between the two presidents for whom this is their third meeting.

He said a shared vision of democracy, the spread of liberty and human rights allowed them to discuss their differences over free trade with respect and frankness.

He said they both agreed that eliminating US and European farm subsidies, which he said makes trade unfair, was the key to success in upcoming World Trade Organisation (WTO) talks.

In reply, President Bush promised to work together with Brazil to do this but he said the US could only reduce subsidies to its farmers if Europe were willing to do the same.

'Chavez swipe'

In the main speech of his Latin American tour later in the day, Mr Bush warned of countries that sought to roll back the democratic progress by playing on fear, pitting neighbour against neighbour and blaming others for their failures.

"A country that divides into factions and dwells on old grievances move forward and risks sliding back into tyranny," Mr Bush said.

"A country that unites all its people behind common ideals will multiply in strength and confidence."

At the recent summit of the Americas in Argentina, Mr Bush had avoided talking about President Chavez, despite inflamed speeches from the Venezuelan leader blaming US interference for Latin America's ills.

President Bush is now on his way to Panama, the last stop of a brief tour in Latin America.

bolshevik butcher
7th November 2005, 12:14
"A country that unites all its people behind common ideals will multiply in strength and confidence."

Like the hypocracy that reacks of. Chavez has the overwelming support of the venezuelan population, bush got elected by one% of the vote. Alsol dspointing to see this from lula, who was elected ebcause he said he was going to be the brazilian chavez.

Luís Henrique
7th November 2005, 16:55
Alsol dspointing to see this from lula, who was elected ebcause he said he was going to be the brazilian chavez.

He never said that. Nor he should.

Luís Henrique

bolshevik butcher
7th November 2005, 18:32
Well he has always calimed to at least be left wing.

Master Che
7th November 2005, 19:02
Lula is a fucking disgrace <_< , i cant believe his even trusting that asshole. It make&#39;s me sad that are country has to suffer even further.




And in an apparent swipe at Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, he accused some nations of rolling back the democratic progress of the last 20 years.
Your country was the one who installed those damn dictatorship&#39;s in the first place. If you wanted "Democracy" here then dont install and support puppet dictators :angry: .


Mr Bush gave his vision for the economic and democratic development of the Americas in a speech later on Sunday to political and business leaders in Brasilia.
Yay more poverty, exploitation and theft of Brazil. I wish people would see and hear Bush&#39;s real intention&#39;s.

Luís Henrique
7th November 2005, 21:08
Lula is a fucking disgrace <_< , i cant believe his even trusting that asshole. It make&#39;s me sad that are country has to suffer even further.

I thought we were going through Socialism?&#33; <_<

Listen, this is diplomatic stuff. They said nothing, discussed nothing, and agreed on nothing - that we know of, at least. Made some promises that neither is willing to keep, of course, kept a straight face, made bold statements, and displayed lots of, probably fake, politeness. What would you think, that they would fight karate?

Luís Henrique

fernando
8th November 2005, 00:32
Take a stand like Chavez perhaps?

Master Che
8th November 2005, 01:22
^Took the words right out of my mouth.

Luís Henrique
9th November 2005, 20:35
Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 12:32 AM
Take a stand like Chavez perhaps?
While paying external debt timely?

What is the use to pretend you are fighting imperialism, if you aren&#39;t?

Luís Henrique

Master Che
9th November 2005, 20:53
He could refuse to pay the debt. (Which he should)

Luís Henrique
10th November 2005, 15:53
Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 08:53 PM
He could refuse to pay the debt. (Which he should)
Certainly. But that is the point, not his shaking hands with Bush.

How do you suggest we could act so that our government starts forfeiting the external debt?

Luís Henrique

fernando
10th November 2005, 17:34
Originally posted by Luís Henrique+Nov 9 2005, 08:35 PM--> (Luís Henrique @ Nov 9 2005, 08:35 PM)
[email protected] 8 2005, 12:32 AM
Take a stand like Chavez perhaps?
While paying external debt timely?

What is the use to pretend you are fighting imperialism, if you aren&#39;t?

Luís Henrique [/b]
Doesnt Venezuela have to pay debt too? Doesnt Argentina do the same?

I find it weird though that Western nations have this really high debt too, but they are not bothered by it. If I recall correctly the US had one of the highests debts in the world.

Luís Henrique
10th November 2005, 17:42
Doesnt Venezuela have to pay debt too? Doesnt Argentina do the same?

As far as I know, Venezuela pays its external debt. Argentina does not, or at least did not for a long time.

Notice that Venezuela is a net oil exporter; it probably can pay it.


I find it weird though that Western nations have this really high debt too, but they are not bothered by it. If I recall correctly the US had one of the highests debts in the world.

Evidently, the global sum of countries debts must be zero. So we are talking about different debts here.

Plus, if I owe money to the biggest bully in the town, I have a problem. But if the biggest bully in the town owes me money, I have a problem, too.

Luís Henrique

fernando
10th November 2005, 17:45
Well thsi would mean that Lula could take a more Chavez-like stand, while at the same time paying debt. Brazil is a rich country (as in natural resources) as well, they are also a partly industrialized country.

Master Che
10th November 2005, 18:13
^Yeah and what can the US do to us if we refuse to pay the debt? They have to leave their people decieved into thinking the us is a force of good. If they invaded us over a stupid debt Americans will realize. The worse they can do to us is a embargo.

Luís Henrique
10th November 2005, 22:04
Well thsi would mean that Lula could take a more Chavez-like stand, while at the same time paying debt.

Yes, he could. If he did, I would say that he would be diverting from the real problems of this country, trying to pander to the masses without taking a stand on the issues that concern the working class.


Brazil is a rich country (as in natural resources) as well, they are also a partly industrialized country.

It has also a much bigger, both absolutely and relatively, foreign debt than Venezuela. In fact, we suffer, in practice, day-to-day, the consequences of the government policies that make it possible to pay the external debt&#33;

Luís Henrique

Master Che
12th November 2005, 03:51
But he can refuse to pay.

Luís Henrique
13th November 2005, 18:52
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 03:51 AM
But he can refuse to pay.
How do you suggest we could act so that our government refuses to pay the external debt?

Luís Henrique

Master Che
13th November 2005, 21:13
I dont know it depends on the US&#39;s reaction.

Luís Henrique
14th November 2005, 18:57
Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 09:13 PM
I dont know it depends on the US&#39;s reaction.
1. What do you think would be the US reaction?

2. The US reaction comes after Brazil refusing to pay. What could we do, besides whining, to make our timid government decide to refuse paying?

Luís Henrique