Revolution

[Gnosis]

I propose a movement toward a new world in which the practices of this world which are harmful to the human species, consciousness, and environment are considered extinct. We should do this not only for ourselves and our children but for the entire world, the entire Earth, and the entire universe.

France is burning, the time has come. The United States and the rest of Europe should also burn.
I propose a type of revolutionary movement which will not ultimately prove itself to be futile.
What, in my opinion, should be done?
First of all there should be no rioting, no picketing, no demonstrations, no performance of any kind with the intention of getting the world's attention.
Those who wish to act in any way should spend their time and energy burning down the establishments and institutions of the enemy and its government.
Things which should be burned, and I highly suggest using fire:
*Any and all establishments or institutions which in any way symbolise that which needs to be transformed in society.
*"fast food" establishments
*malls and other large or corperate outlets and stores
*police stations
*Fire stations (for obvious tactical reasons)
*media centers and news stations
*radio stations
*Television stations
*Government monuments
*Churches, synagogs, mosques, and other pop-culture places of worship such as MTV studios and Holly Wood
*Jails, youth programs, schools (public, religious and private) and any other state or federal monument dedicated to oppression


We are at a turning point in human history and everybody knows it. Where we go from here is our decision, no one may make it for us even if we agree with what they agree with.
We are struggling, but we should not struggle forever, soon our fight will be over, though no one will ever be proclaimed a winner.
Our struggle will end when the life style we wish to live is the lifestyle we are free to live. Our struggle will end when law is abolished and we are no longer slaves to oursselves and the system which bred us and our self defeating behaviours.
Our struggle will be over when we reach a new level in human consciousness as a whole.
Until then it is time to burn the buildings, but not the flesh. It is time to kill the ego, not the human. It is time to burn the symbol but not the species. And when all the symbols are ashes and all the walls are standing no more, a new ideology will have emerged bearing a new way of life, a new understanding of the universe, and a new sense of freedom for all who have survived.

Burn the United States, Free America.

No negotiations with the "authorities" until they are on their knees and begging us to stop. And then we will all gather at their capatal, every single one of us who participated and agree with the movement, and they will have to answer to every single one of us all at once as we are all equal and we all desearve a public trial.
We will give them a taste of their own medicine, hold them on trial in front of everyone, make them admit to what they have done, and then set them free and burn their house.
And then the masses may do with them what they like.
If our movement is a sucess, they will be spared and allowed to live their lives as "commoners", people just like us and viewed as equals.
If the movement is a failiure, then they will be beaten to death.
That will be the deciding moment, I think.

I propose a debate as to what should be done now for with what intentions in mind.
I propose a debate over what should be done ever, what is moral, what is right, what is wrong, what is the nature of the universe and what should be known, what is common sense.
I propose a debate so that we may find a common ground and build a movement on it. I propose a debate so that we may all allow our consciousness to expand even further and have an even deeper understanding of ourselves and each other in relation to our own personal realities.
Where should this movement go and for what reasons?
What is the cause, and how will this cause effect our actions and thoughts?
Where do we want to be as a species and as a people during and after the next forty years?
What should the world look like, what should we know and think about?
Where should we go with technology and how far should we expand our consciousness?

All I know is the time has come and we should be getting serious about the state of the world. France is burining and so should the rest of the world.
Burn the world, free the Earth and all who live on it, not exclusively humans, but every animal, plant and mineral.
Nothing should be a slave for the sake of human "progress".

What do you think?

[KC]

First of all there should be no rioting, no picketing, no demonstrations, no performance of any kind with the intention of getting the world's attention.

Yes there should be.



Those who wish to act in any way should spend their time and energy burning down the establishments and institutions of the enemy and its government.
Things which should be burned, and I highly suggest using fire:
*Any and all establishments or institutions which in any way symbolise that which needs to be transformed in society.
*"fast food" establishments
*malls and other large or corperate outlets and stores
*police stations
*Fire stations (for obvious tactical reasons)
*media centers and news stations
*radio stations
*Television stations
*Government monuments
*Churches, synagogs, mosques, and other pop-culture places of worship such as MTV studios and Holly Wood
*Jails, youth programs, schools (public, religious and private) and any other state or federal monument dedicated to oppression

Burning these down is pointless and destructive; these should be converted, not destroyed.



What do you think?

I couldn't even finish reading the whole thing. Horrific writing style.

[Publius]

We capitalists are quivering at the threat of more of your suspect prose and contradictory ideas.

[Amusing Scrotum]

We capitalists are quivering at the threat of more of your suspect prose and contradictory ideas.

:lol:

Don't be so nasty. :)

[Paradox]

I propose a movement toward a new world in which the practices of this world which are harmful to the human species, consciousness, and environment are considered extinct. We should do this not only for ourselves and our children but for the entire world, the entire Earth, and the entire universe.

Well that's new. (sorry to be sarcastic, but I couldn't help it)


First of all there should be no rioting, no picketing, no demonstrations, no performance of any kind with the intention of getting the world's attention.

It's a little late for that, don't you think? I mean even if the "intention" isn't to catch the world's attention, whatever happens, i.e. burning shit down, is gonna be all over the news.


Those who wish to act in any way should spend their time and energy burning down the establishments and institutions of the enemy and its government.
Things which should be burned, and I highly suggest using fire:
*Any and all establishments or institutions which in any way symbolise that which needs to be transformed in society.
*"fast food" establishments
*malls and other large or corperate outlets and stores
*police stations
*Fire stations (for obvious tactical reasons)
*media centers and news stations
*radio stations
*Television stations
*Government monuments
*Churches, synagogs, mosques, and other pop-culture places of worship such as MTV studios and Holly Wood
*Jails, youth programs, schools (public, religious and private) and any other state or federal monument dedicated to oppression

I agree with Lazar. Taking over the buildings and then converting them is what should be done. Is the movement in France big enough to carry this out, is a different question.


We will give them a taste of their own medicine, hold them on trial in front of everyone, make them admit to what they have done, and then set them free and burn their house.
And then the masses may do with them what they like.
If our movement is a sucess, they will be spared and allowed to live their lives as "commoners", people just like us and viewed as equals.
If the movement is a failiure, then they will be beaten to death.
That will be the deciding moment, I think.

Call me "pessimistic," but my bet is that they get beat to death.


What do you think?

I think you have a lot of strange ideas.

[La_Dominicana_Rebelde]

i dont know perhaps im naive or idealistic....i loved it..we need to have a movement...we need to save humanity, our earth, our fellow animals and all...."human progress" is going to be the end of us all.....and i think we should take a second and if any of u have ever read Heidegger or Nietszche.......we have to think about why we have gotten to this point of holocaust in human existance....we should return to the ontological....we should learn that humans are animals too... and that we need to respect ourselves (stop the hatred stop the violence stop the racism the sexism the homophia....love one another)....perhaps lazar is right that it was bad writing....but the message is what caught me...

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

What a load of hot air! :rolleyes:

[Connolly]

What do you think?

Your whole basis for revolution is just one big emotional outburst. :!:

And, for me anyway, it dosnt give any grounds for a socialist revolution - the natural mechanism for the transformation of the means of production.

[Gnosis]

Please try to see beyond the style of writing to the message being sent.
I know my ideas are not new, though they may seem a bit unusual at times, but I am not trying to have any new ideas, I am having ideas that work or might work better than the ones of the past.
Of course everyone would know if the US was burning, but that is not the point. We should not simply convert the buildings into new buildings becasue that will not acomplish anything real or lasting. We had might as well just leave it the way it is if that is the plan. I say we should have never built them in the first place and the sooner they come down the better for all.
I think their disintegration would be the symbolic end of the Petrolium age and the symbolic birth of the Consciousness age, or whatever the heck it will or should be called.
We will get the attention of the entire world, but we should not relish in it or take it to heart becasue that is not why we should be doing what we should be doing. We should not listen to them, we should appear to be a faceless, nameless, untouchable entity which burns the cities down by night and sleeps by day underground.
Of course I am emotional, my anscestors came from France and I have always loved France, when I heard that the final revolt began there I was not suprised but wondering why I hadn't thought of that, I never really imagined it begining any where. But I was watching the news and I realised they were appearing to be doing something correct and inspirational.
And I think we should be with France because they are fighting because of what we will fight becasue of. And that alliance is important, and now is the time to do what we need to because we have a window, we have a begining, France did it first, we can follow if we wish because they opened the door for us all.
And that is why we should burn everything for thesake of burning everything.
We will never negotiate, never cease until the entire country is in ashes, or at least most of it (there are some buildings we should keep, though not many).
And then the old way will be dead, there will be nothing left of the old way but the building materials we shall use toward the new.
If you want to protest with a slogan and a sign then do it, but I will never protest except with fire.
This movement in America should begin in the midwest and the south as it is highly symbolic. I think the symbolism of every event should be focused on.

When they are beaten to death, we have failed to show compassion, and failing to show compassion for anything but theirselves is what brought our ancestors and us o this point in the first place.
What is really important is not conducting a futile movement.
Capatalism is futile, democracy is futile, fighting for peace is futile, communism is futile, we need something else.
Not necessarily something new, but something else.

We need to give the Earth back to the Earth. We need to erradicate the arrogance and selfishness of the human race if we are ever to survive as a species.
Be not arrogant and be not selfish, give the Earth back to the Earth and promise never to rape her again.

[Paradox]

I read down to the passage quoted below, then it reminded me of why I stopped arguing with you when you first started posting here.


I say we should have never built them in the first place and the sooner they come down the better for all.
I think their disintegration would be the symbolic end of the Petrolium age and the symbolic birth of the Consciousness age, or whatever the heck it will or should be called.

The symbolic birth of the STARVATION AGE. I remember before that you said there shouldn't even be farms. This just makes it more clear how retarded your ideas are.


When they are beaten to death, we have failed to show compassion, and failing to show compassion for anything but theirselves is what brought our ancestors and us o this point in the first place.

In my opinion, if they deserve it (that being, that it's 100% clear they're guilty of crimes against humanity), and the people judge that they should be executed, I don't have a problem with that. Senseless killing however, I do have a problem with that. Violence should not be used in the movement unless necessary to defend ourselves against attack. Violence as the basis of the movement will get us nowhere (at least not in 1st world revolutions). But I think it's an inescapable means of self-defense that we should use when necessary.


We need to erradicate the arrogance and selfishness of the human race if we are ever to survive as a species.

Erradicate selfishness? I seriously doubt that will ever happen. I think people can be made more selfless, but that selfishness can never be totally eliminated. Arrogance, I don't think that will totally be wiped out either, but would like to see it reduced as much as possible.

[Tungsten]

Gnosis

What do you think?
There are plenty of references to burning things down, but not actually building anything to replace it. What will all of this burning actually accomplish, other than a return to the dark ages?

[Loknar]

All I know is this....if this was my country and these people were burning shit and killing people and dousing old women with gasoline, I'd give this order "Shoot to kill."

Is this a revolution? Going around burning shit isn’t a revolution. A real revolution happens when people, organized, march on the capitol.

[aclearbluesky]

something calls for change and we burn it to the ground?

such a brutish irrational human instinct.

though you could be on to something...perhaps the only way to give the earth back is to destroy the human race which seemingly can only be destroyed by itself.

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 05:13 PM

Things which should be burned, and I highly suggest using fire:

well its good that you suggest FIRE for burning I was going to use water :lol:

[DankyMcnugs]

Um. People type really long ass opinions. Its cool in a way.

[bushdog]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 11:11 PM
We capitalists are quivering at the threat of more of your suspect prose and contradictory ideas.
:lol: Ahh... i love a good caustic comment, it keeps me entertained.

[Capitalist Imperial]

If you are feeling froggy, then jump, comrade. I can tell you for certain that if you attempted such things in the States, our position would not be soft and passive, like France's.

You and your ilk would likely be filled with more holes than an afghani wedding party under a C-130 gunship.

Have a nice day.

[RebelOutcast]

I now support gnosis being restricted/banned, damn counter-revolutionaries.

[fukuoka_yakuza]

Those who wish to act in any way should spend their time and energy burning down the establishments and institutions of the enemy and its government.

sure, lets burn everything down in the name of the revolution. make our cause look even worse than it already does.
the last thing we need is a huge, violent, destructive revolution. no matter who runs it, the us and other conservative governments will be on the left's asses.
and i dont think the us would have any qualms about smashing the revolution and using it as an excuse to have the red scare all over again

[Columbia]

Burn the United States, Free America.

Just try it. Come on, the night is young.



P.S. You can begin with your home.

[Gnosis]

sure, lets burn everything down in the name of the revolution. make our cause look even worse than it already does.

No, this was not my point. I focused too much on the burning part and not on the other aspects of my opinion.

I do not suggest burning anything in the name of revolution. In fact, I do not suggest saying anything about the burning except for that you are not apart of it, even if you are. i think the destructive force and the political/revolutionary force should be seperate, with nothing to do with one another, their only relation being their goel: The end of the world as we know it.

And while some people are burning, others will speak, and those who speak will have really good ideas that will bring us forward though at the same time the fire is setting us back.
We don't even have to use fire, we can take it down piece by piece and then re-build in our own image if we want.
We can do anything we want, whatever that is, and I share with you my thoughts because I have them and you have ears, but I expect you to come up with your own thoughts and even though you don't share them with me I suppose I can trust that you do have you own ideas.

I am thinking we need to change the entire world, and I do not believe anything is wrong or off limits and so I suggest whatever I think no matter what you might think back.

I suggest a war on one hand, and peace on the other. And I think that can be acomplished if the war and the peace never unite toward the same cause, though they recognise that they are united toward the same cause, and that is the fulfillment of the peace. And then when there is no more need for war, it will end and peace will be fulfilled everywhere.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 10 2005, 07:32 PM
If you are feeling froggy, then jump, comrade. I can tell you for certain that if you attempted such things in the States, our position would not be soft and passive, like France's.

You and your ilk would likely be filled with more holes than an afghani wedding party under a C-130 gunship.

Have a nice day.
Oh your fucking god, what is this violence-obsession of yours? What, do you get horny thinking about how many people "your" country killed today? Get a life. Seriously.

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by RedFaction+Nov 11 2005, 09:26 AM--> (RedFaction @ Nov 11 2005, 09:26 AM)
Capitalist [email protected] 10 2005, 07:32 PM
If you are feeling froggy, then jump, comrade. I can tell you for certain that if you attempted such things in the States, our position would not be soft and passive, like France's.

You and your ilk would likely be filled with more holes than an afghani wedding party under a C-130 gunship.

Have a nice day.
Oh your fucking god, what is this violence-obsession of yours? What, do you get horny thinking about how many people "your" country killed today? Get a life. Seriously. [/b]
Fuck getting a life, just take it.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by RedFaction+Nov 11 2005, 02:26 PM--> (RedFaction @ Nov 11 2005, 02:26 PM)
Capitalist [email protected] 10 2005, 07:32 PM
If you are feeling froggy, then jump, comrade. I can tell you for certain that if you attempted such things in the States, our position would not be soft and passive, like France's.

You and your ilk would likely be filled with more holes than an afghani wedding party under a C-130 gunship.

Have a nice day.
Oh your fucking god, what is this violence-obsession of yours? What, do you get horny thinking about how many people "your" country killed today? Get a life. Seriously. [/b]
Clever, Red. Why is it that lleftists are osessed with sexualizing everything? You guys really need to get some.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 10 2005, 06:32 PM
If you are feeling froggy, then jump, comrade. I can tell you for certain that if you attempted such things in the States, our position would not be soft and passive, like France's.

Yeah, riots because of police bruttality never happen in the US. :rolleyes:

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Gravedigger+Nov 11 2005, 11:59 PM--> (Gravedigger @ Nov 11 2005, 11:59 PM)
Capitalist [email protected] 10 2005, 06:32 PM
If you are feeling froggy, then jump, comrade. I can tell you for certain that if you attempted such things in the States, our position would not be soft and passive, like France's.

Yeah, riots because of police bruttality never happen in the US. :rolleyes: [/b]
No, they definitely happen, but our domestic security forces put them down and restore order relatively fast, certainly faster than two weeks.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by Capitalist Imperial+Nov 12 2005, 01:11 AM--> (Capitalist Imperial @ Nov 12 2005, 01:11 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 11:59 PM

Capitalist [email protected] 10 2005, 06:32 PM
If you are feeling froggy, then jump, comrade. I can tell you for certain that if you attempted such things in the States, our position would not be soft and passive, like France's.

Yeah, riots because of police bruttality never happen in the US. :rolleyes:
No, they definitely happen, but our domestic security forces put them down and restore order relatively fast, certainly faster than two weeks. [/b]
Sure, if you call beating up all the black guys from around the block and arresting anyone that looks even a little suspicious (read: that is black) "restoring order" ..

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by RedFaction+Nov 12 2005, 02:05 PM--> (RedFaction @ Nov 12 2005, 02:05 PM)
Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 12 2005, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 11:59 PM

Capitalist [email protected] 10 2005, 06:32 PM
If you are feeling froggy, then jump, comrade. I can tell you for certain that if you attempted such things in the States, our position would not be soft and passive, like France's.

Yeah, riots because of police bruttality never happen in the US. :rolleyes:
No, they definitely happen, but our domestic security forces put them down and restore order relatively fast, certainly faster than two weeks.
Sure, if you call beating up all the black guys from around the block and arresting anyone that looks even a little suspicious (read: that is black) "restoring order" .. [/b]
That's what they called it in France too. Fat lot of good it did 'em too.

I mean really, the claim that France is somehow less able to be repressive is just bunk. Read about the draconian rules they enacted that allows the government to declare (something along the lines of) martial law for 12 days and strip people of their citizenship.

One kid they arrested and tried in 15 minutes on live TV... that's like Alberto Gonzales' fantasy!

I find anti-french sentiment among US conservative hilarious especially considering how right-wing Chriac is and how close his policies are to Bush's: "tough on crime," neoliberalism, and so on.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Do you actually call quelling riots "repression"?

Come on, man. For the safety of the public, this should have been put down long ago.

[Gnosis]

Do you actually call quelling riots "repression"?

Yes. Repression of riots for the good of the public is still repression of riots.

I say the riots should not be repressed. I think if those people want to burn cars they should not be allowed, they should not be not allowed, they should not have to ask or permission or stop because some one else disagrees, I think it is their right to do whatever they want no matter what any one else says.

[Gnosis]

The rioters are the public.
The rioters are people, repression of rioters is the prepression of the public, of the people.
Government has no right to repress people in their own home, even if they were elected by the others around them.

[bunk]

The reason why the riots in France will not progress is because i'm not sure of how much support the rioters have even in their own communities from their elders. But perhaps that is the way it will be, if they occupiied and ran some buildings then it could be labelled a progressive cause.

In answer to Gnosis original plan i think we should burn as little as possible, we need the infastructure to service the communities. The people will still need these places, why burn them when they could be converted to a hospital, school, or community centre.

Gnosis should not be restricted. He has not said anything counter-revolutionary directly.

[Gnosis]

My point in favor of burning it all is a symbolic one. I think for change to take place, symbolism must be considered. I do not like cities, I think they should burn, I think they should change. I am a fan of symbolic change on top of real change. The human consciousness must change as the human environment changes.

I do not think I should be restricted either, and I have not said anything counter revolutionary. The problem is not only in my ability to communicate every idea which comes to me as accurately as possible, but also in the administrations ability to understand and give time to those ideas which I have trouble communicating. Some times even I do not know what I am attempting to explain, but I always know what I am supposed to say and to whom, that is why I view this restriction as simply a part of my relationship with this website which might be necessary for that relationships development.

I like the way Josh spoke about his ideas, he was civil and will always recieve a civil response from me. I consider every idea an equal candidate for truth and material possibility, but it is easier to do so when the one expressing actually has an idea to express outside an egoic attempt at gaining a few points for shooting down the freak new-ager.