LibDems good or bad?

[Noah]

Hey guys,

I'm not particullarly sure how many of you are knowlegdable with English politics but I know there are a few comrades who are from the UK here.

Well as some of us know in England we have three main parties. The Labour party, the Tories and the LibDems.

I know a few socialist friends that say the LibDems would be better than the other two parties. What are your views on this? Are the LibDems good or bad? Better than Labour and the Tories? Worth voting for? Or should one just call for a no vote and vote for no one because they're all the same?

Thanks guys.

Noah

[drain.you]

Hey comrade Noah,
I'm in England like yourself, living in Blair's constituency unfortunately. I agree that LibDems seem alot better option than the other two major political parties. Why? Therir policies are the closest to the left that will get into government at the current moment of time, of course communist party are a great choice in theory but they don't have enough support to even hold a decent amount of seats and voting for them would be pretty much wasting your vote.
Also look back at Tory history in power it equals not good for anyone except the capitalists.
And Labours last two terms in office has brought us into a war in Iraq amongst many other things that us leftists have quite opposed.
I say give the LibDems a chance and if anything, getting LibDems into power would give us a three party system rather than a two party system (tories and labour are the only two parties in government for decades so i class it as two party despite it being a multi-party demoncracy)

[bunk]

I would vote Green party, they are more leftist and not afraid of speaking out. They have councillors but if they get an MP then he would question everything dubious in the countrries dealings

[drain.you]

...Yeah but a couple of MPs isn't going to stop a majority of any government lol. We need Lib Dems in and Labour as opposition, in my opinion that kind of government would work very well.

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 05:17 PM
...Yeah but a couple of MPs isn't going to stop a majority of any government lol. We need Lib Dems in and Labour as opposition, in my opinion that kind of government would work very well.
that's not the objective, having a green MP will get more radical views reported on the news, today in parliament etc. and more questioning of the status quo

[Amusing Scrotum]

Your best off joining the Labour Party and trying to drag it back to the left. The Lib Dems have no links with the working class, the Unions etc. The Labour Party was formed as a workers' party and may become that once again. I'm kind of optimistic on this count.

Don't forget the Lib Dems as well have a lot of Thatcherite bastards in their party. The social liberal part of the party is not that big and theres quite a few neo liberal types in there. Plus theres a few complete liberal wollies, scared of everything because thats the liberal way. ;)

If you really desire voting and trying to change things, the left Lib Dems and left Labour party members are your best bet. Though they probably just end up bowing down to big business anyway. So you may as well vote Tory.

[enigma2517]

They have councillors but if they get an MP then he would question everything dubious in the countrries dealings

You need money to win elections. The only way to get a significant majority in anything is to appeal to those with wealth and represent them accordingly.

The time and effort spent campaigning for capitalist politicians can be used much more effectively else, like for instance, educating the working class.

True, perhaps a few Greenies in parliament would mean a kinder or more bearable capitalism...however it distracts our energies from the ultimate issue...class war.

If you want to settle for less, fine, but I think we can do better.

Read about reformism at Redstar2000's website.

http://www.redstar2000papers.com/

Reformism is an idealistic goal with no grounding in material reality :)

Unfortunately, sheer will power can never be an effective substitute of workers actually seizing capital/means of production.

[bunk]

I agree, but ultimately the Greens are a more radical suggestion than Labour or LibDems as has been suggested here

[enigma2517]

If you really desire voting and trying to change things

If voting changed anything it'd be illegal :)

Don't vote, revolt!

[Roses in the Hospital]

The thing about the LibDems is that they're free to champion any issue the public fels strongly about because they know they're not going to win an election any time soon, though I think british politics would be a lot more interesting with a stronger third pary, which hopefully with the demise of the Tory party and the growing unpopularity of Blarite Labour we might have within the next ten years or so...

[drain.you]

Good to know Blair and Bush will be off centre stage in the not too distant future.
Maybe Brown will head Labour perhaps in a better direction but I doubt it, as I understand it, he's little more than a copy of Blair's ideology.
Hopefully the new tory leader will be a complete failure and wipe the tories from the place of opposition. I doubt LibDem will get in next time and I doubt that they will become opposition but I can hope for the latter.

But yeah, none of the main parties share our radical view so if we are going to change things its not with the vote, its with protests, riots and revolution...in that order :P

[Noah]

So when the vote comes around again we should just not vote at all? But alternatively protest and do other things for the cause.

[Invader Zim]

The lib dems are bad, I do not like them. the only reason I would ever consider voting for them (not that I would) is because I would prefer to see the labour/conservative party with a lesser majority in the commons.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 04:59 AM
If voting changed anything it'd be illegal :)

Don't vote, revolt!
too true! :P

[drain.you]

we probably should vote....not voting would mean the people who do vote (generally the old tories and middle-age labours lol) will get their way :P

[enigma2517]

we probably should vote....not voting would mean the people who do vote (generally the old tories and middle-age labours lol) will get their way

Its going to be that way anyway. In the world of capitalism, the virtual parliament of capital has the last word on everything.

If you want reforms, fine. Theres no point in just "sitting around and waiting for the revolution". But, the fastest way to get reforms is to get out on the streets/go on strikes/etc. You have to put the pressure on.

Seriously, spend your time on direct action and more importantly, educating people! Spending money on campaigns or anything of that nature is a total waste.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

I'm moderately for the lib dems, they're a mile better than either Tory or New Labour...

I'm not a big fan of the green party, mainly because people fail to take them seriously which seriously prohibits their chance of ever getting into power...

Respect is a good party, but I don't see it feasable of any kind of vast upsurge in the number of seats respect will hold in Parliament.

So in my opinion, without an armed revolution the most effective way of instating atleast a moderately left government in the UK would be for a leftward push in the Lib Dem party (like the opposite to what Blair did to Labour) and then just reach out...

[Comrade Yastrebkov]

I agree with Kevis. I would vote Respect, which has socialism in its name, but on the other hand doesn't war it on its sleeve so it could attract more voters than outright socialist/communisit parties.

But as for the greens - they are a good party to vote for and would be nice to have more of the in parliament, but I don't know much about their other policies eg. foreign policy, internal affairs - after all their priority is campaigning for the environment, not for radical political change.

So the Lib Dems are probably the best option we have at this moment in time.

[bunk]

Their main priority is environment but i watched their conference (laying out their manifesto) last election and they have sound policies in all areas.

[Comrade Yastrebkov]

What party are their policies closest to?