Newbee

[SCDF]

I am new here, my idea about communism ? In theory it's good, but it will never work in real life.

But I'm open for new opinions.

[*PRC*Kensei]

:D !

this is one of my real live friends beeying here as an undercover BUSH FAN - hang him :P - looking for some trouble.

watch this guy closly, dont let him make a right move.
"it will never work in real life" it has been done in the past - however huge space for improvement - , so for the bar-talk.

hang this right wing friend off mine :P

[SCDF]

How sweet. I have my own ideas, I'm not really right, and not left. Any way, America has a good economy , something you cannot really say about Russia Tuur.

And , yeah, I know, China is a new economic power, but there are still a lot of poor people.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 04:27 PM
How sweet. I have my own ideas, I'm not really right, and not left. Any way, America has a good economy , something you cannot really say about Russia Tuur.

And , yeah, I know, China is a new economic power, but there are still a lot of poor people.
bartalk like i'm used from him.

Y'a wanna fuck the daugther of the local facist party member, and y'a cant deny that :lol:

America is going down my friend, and their economy almost collapsed in rosevelts times (or right before him), but LIKE ALWAYS: then some fool started a world war.

Russia is rebuilding from the FALL of communism, - so this means they need to recover from leaving communism, not from communism -, been in a lot o ex-soviet country's, they all have to recover to get the same standard of living as they had duing soviet times. Free market aint friendly for them :)

And to notice: russia aint the soviet union anymore, so you cant compare with the usa these days. Material weath for "the few" aint the only value in life.

China... their have always been poor people. and btw: who tells you this ? you just think it is like this so you just scream it do u ? AND CHINA CAN GROW SO HARD BECAUSE of their former communism/maoism. without the revolution it would have been just... farmers, and poor ones.

[workersunity]

Americas economy is not good at all, it has shown that the free market is a failure of a system, and even with governmental aid, it still keeps the ol' oppressive system in place

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 12:27 PM
Any way, America has a good economy
Tell that to the survivors of New Orleans, or the workers of Delphi Automotive.

Miles

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 04:27 PM
America has a good economy
In Europe, people pay a part of their payment to the government that uses it as a social insurance. Therefore, when a European needs a tooth replaced he pays exactly 10€ (ca. 12$), the rest is paid for by the social insurance. When an American requires the exact same thing, he has to pay approximately 10.000$ out of his own pocket. How's that for a good economy?

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 04:27 PM
How sweet. I have my own ideas, I'm not really right, and not left. Any way, America has a good economy , something you cannot really say about Russia Tuur.

And , yeah, I know, China is a new economic power, but there are still a lot of poor people.
America's economy is built upon the exploitation of workers
America has, for years, oppressed and exploited the ppl of Latin American, Africa, and Asia - they might have a good economy, but its built upon the oppressed

China is capitalist disguised in red

That rhetoric is likely to get u flamed in here <_<

[which doctor]

Wilkommen Komrade, Learn and Teach&#33;

[Zingu]

Originally posted by *PRC*[email protected] 26 2005, 04:34 PM
Russia is rebuilding from the FALL of communism, - so this means they need to recover from leaving communism, not from communism -,
Who in fark told you that?

[*PRC*Kensei]

eeeeem been in russia, been in bulgaria, been in hungary, & most other ex-soviet country&#39;s :)

The people all said: At this moment the situation isnt that good as it whas during communism, but in 15 years we will have rebuilded & changed our economy to capitalistic, and we will be able to get the same standard of living as during the soviet times.
take as example Bulgaria,
their factory&#39;s... they are almost all closed, i think only 10 % staid afther the fall of the berlin wall. This means they are on a lower level during this changing economy then they where during communism, but they - most - think it will get better than communism in the future - 10 - 15 years -

my source: People in ex-soviet country&#39;s, many :)
And we are on the same side comrade, dont worry, marxism ;)

[Black Dagger]

Wait, so you&#39;re saying capitalism is doing a better job in those countries than &#39;communism&#39;? o0 Are you a capitalist or a communist?

[*PRC*Kensei]

N O.

i&#39;m saying that capitalism isnt doing a better job, and it will only become... equal to what it whas before 1988 afther like 15 years, and maby, depends on how the bloody market turns, better - economically -

I&#39;m saying that capitalism had caused a little crisis afther the fall off comunism in these country&#39;s. i think you misunderstood me, & btw: Get this right wing dude - one of my good friends in real life, but that doesnt mather - out of here :P

I&#39;m on the leftist side, dont worry :)

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by *PRC*[email protected] 27 2005, 01:58 PM
eeeeem been in russia, been in bulgaria, been in hungary, & most other ex-soviet country&#39;s :)

The people all said: At this moment the situation isnt that good as it whas during communism, but in 15 years we will have rebuilded & changed our economy to capitalistic, and we will be able to get the same standard of living as during the soviet times.
take as example Bulgaria,
their factory&#39;s... they are almost all closed, i think only 10 % staid afther the fall of the berlin wall. This means they are on a lower level during this changing economy then they where during communism, but they - most - think it will get better than communism in the future - 10 - 15 years -

my source: People in ex-soviet country&#39;s, many :)
And we are on the same side comrade, dont worry, marxism ;)
Bullshit. If the Sovjet had not fallen apart, communism had been able to further develop there and people would&#39;ve been even better off than they were before.

[enigma2517]

Since when was Russia even remotely communist?

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by RedFaction+Oct 27 2005, 05:28 PM--> (RedFaction @ Oct 27 2005, 05:28 PM)
*PRC*[email protected] 27 2005, 01:58 PM
eeeeem been in russia, been in bulgaria, been in hungary, & most other ex-soviet country&#39;s :)

The people all said: At this moment the situation isnt that good as it whas during communism, but in 15 years we will have rebuilded & changed our economy to capitalistic, and we will be able to get the same standard of living as during the soviet times.
take as example Bulgaria,
their factory&#39;s... they are almost all closed, i think only 10 % staid afther the fall of the berlin wall. This means they are on a lower level during this changing economy then they where during communism, but they - most - think it will get better than communism in the future - 10 - 15 years -

my source: People in ex-soviet country&#39;s, many :)
And we are on the same side comrade, dont worry, marxism ;)
Bullshit. If the Sovjet had not fallen apart, communism had been able to further develop there and people would&#39;ve been even better off than they were before. [/b]
you just dont understand me do u...

I&#39;M TELLING THE PEOPLE ARE NOW BUILDING UP THEIR CAPITALIST COUNTRY AND HAVING A HARD TIME DOING IT, SINCE THEY DONT HAVE THE SAME STANDARD OF LIVING --&#62; SO I&#39;M SAYING COMMUNISM DID BETTER. :angry: learn to read. :ph34r:

[Black Dagger]

Except that communism never existed in the USSR during the 20th century, or in any country/place so far in history.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by *PRC*Kensei+Oct 28 2005, 01:44 PM--> (*PRC*Kensei @ Oct 28 2005, 01:44 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 05:28 PM

*PRC*[email protected] 27 2005, 01:58 PM
eeeeem been in russia, been in bulgaria, been in hungary, & most other ex-soviet country&#39;s :)

The people all said: At this moment the situation isnt that good as it whas during communism, but in 15 years we will have rebuilded & changed our economy to capitalistic, and we will be able to get the same standard of living as during the soviet times.
take as example Bulgaria,
their factory&#39;s... they are almost all closed, i think only 10 % staid afther the fall of the berlin wall. This means they are on a lower level during this changing economy then they where during communism, but they - most - think it will get better than communism in the future - 10 - 15 years -

my source: People in ex-soviet country&#39;s, many :)
And we are on the same side comrade, dont worry, marxism ;)
Bullshit. If the Sovjet had not fallen apart, communism had been able to further develop there and people would&#39;ve been even better off than they were before.
you just dont understand me do u...

I&#39;M TELLING THE PEOPLE ARE NOW BUILDING UP THEIR CAPITALIST COUNTRY AND HAVING A HARD TIME DOING IT, SINCE THEY DONT HAVE THE SAME STANDARD OF LIVING --&#62; SO I&#39;M SAYING COMMUNISM DID BETTER. :angry: learn to read. :ph34r: [/b]
Now did I say "bullshit" at you? No , I didn&#39;t. I was merely explaining how there&#39;s no logic in the theory of your "sources" (being people in ex-Soviet countries, and NOT you..) <_<

[Pandii]

No one has welcomed you yet&#33;
Also, its goodt o have a different view, and as you can see, even leftists are al ittle aggrivated at people with different views, I think you have a good point.
Cheers and happy posting fellow leftie&#33;

[Pandii]

That siad, I think Communism is a GREAT theory, but will be hard to put into place, as it will be scroodled over anyway, no group of people will EVER fully go along with one type of political system.. its just how it goes. Thats why there are so many types of systems as it is.
Anyway.. happy posting&#33;

[Yazman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 02:22 AM
I am new here, my idea about communism ? In theory it&#39;s good, but it will never work in real life.

But I&#39;m open for new opinions.

Welcome to the boards, I hope you learn much during your stay here.

Perhaps you would be better suited to the opposing ideologies board.

The "it&#39;s good in theory but it won&#39;t work in practice" is an old and tired excuse for people to sit on their asses and not fight for progress. It&#39;s an outdated, discredited theory and I wish people would stop using it because it has no basis in fact whatsoever.

Mindless speculation about "LOLZ HUMAN NATURE DUZ THISS" is ridiculous, considering you&#39;re extrapolating from outdated theory. People are the way they are today because of social conditioning, the common mindsets you will find are a direct result of it. If you had a time machine you would find that people have not had the same mindsets (as the common one today) for thousands of years. There is no "default mindset" that humans have, one is developed over years. There is no evidence of a "human nature" existing. The closest you will come to such a thing is a genetic predisposition, and there is no evidence whatsoever that humans have a predisposition towards "greed", for example. This is purely psychological and philosophical rhetoric.

In case you also believe that the projected logistics of such a system are "good in theory but not practical", let us not forget that co-operatives are generally much more efficient than today&#39;s factories etc. Let&#39;s also not forget that similar anarcho-communist systems have existed in the past and were defeated not by social or political issues but by external military issues.

The fact that there "could be" opposition in a global communist system is irrelevant, because past systems such as capitalism will never return, even if a few remote outposts of capitalism still exist. A comparable situation exists today, although nobody predicts that "capitalism is good in theory but not in practice because it has so much opposition", and although it is perhaps the most strongly opposed system in history it is going strong at the moment (although it&#39;s grip is weakening as we speak, and has been doing so for a few decades). There are still monarchists today, and even a few old style monarchist outposts left, but this poses NO THREAT TO CAPITALISM whatsoever.

If there was ever a threat to a global communist system it would not be a reactionary threat. Outposts of old systems, as history shows, never pose a threat.

[LSD]

Welcome to the board, SCDF.


Originally posted by RL Guidelines
What is restriction, and what is the Opposing Ideologies forum?

Restriction is a measure the membership uses to focus the debate on this site. We are a group of progressive Leftists, after all. That is about as much as many of us have in common however. We disagree on how the society we envision will work, how best to emancipate the workers and many other issues. We need to debate these things respectfully, amongst ourselves. So we restrict debate about whether we should emancipate the workers at all to the Opposing Ideologies forum.

This is where all right-wingers are sent. This is where anyone who is too disruptive to proper debate is sent. There are other reasons for being restricted to OI of course, but generally, it requires behaviour that is deemed in conflict with the membership&#39;s vision for this site. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=boardrules)

Restricted.

[dakewlguy]

Laffo, this guy could be a social democrat, but even they are restricted now?

[Black Dagger]

Um... social democrats are pro-capitalist, pro-statist, and usually anti-revolutionary, so yeah, social democrats are usually restricted.

[bolshevik butcher]

That was a bit strict, lads becoming the new tat.

[Yazman]

Well in all fairness I was the one who suggest the thread should be moved here to OI, but I don&#39;t think he should have been restricted&#33; The guy only has FIVE posts&#33;

[*PRC*Kensei]

it whas the right thing to do :P

in fact, he just wanted to launch a spam attack at this forum with his right wing friends, watch out for it. - is this forum spam proof ? -

But he&#39;s a good guy in real life, just comsuming right right right wing dude :lol:

[SCDF]

I don&#39;t let laugh with me. It seems to my that some people here are an perfect sample for the way most people see&#39;s Communism : not willing to listen to other ideologies, putting the oppositing people in brackets ( breek me de mond niet open) and fans of the censure.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 11:05 PM
I don&#39;t let laugh with me. It seems to my that some people here are an perfect sample for the way most people see&#39;s Communism : not willing to listen to other ideologies, putting the oppositing people in brackets ( breek me de mond niet open) and fans of the censure.
1. we are willing to listen to other ideologies. therefore there is an opposing ideologies forum which you are currently posting in and have been restricted to.
2. i&#39;m not too sure what you mean abt the brackets comment.
3. who&#39;s being censored? you&#39;re still able to articulate your ideas.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Dit is net de reden dat er een Opposing Ideologies is, zodat je nog altijd je mening kunt uiten en we daarover kunnen discussïeren, maar zonder dat het gevaar bestaat dat er nazis in een keer onze fora beginnen te spammen met allerlei onzin. Het is niet bedoeld als straf, maar enkel om wat overzicht te kunnen houden...

[SCDF]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 03:49 PM
Dit is net de reden dat er een Opposing Ideologies is, zodat je nog altijd je mening kunt uiten en we daarover kunnen discussïeren, maar zonder dat het gevaar bestaat dat er nazis in een keer onze fora beginnen te spammen met allerlei onzin. Het is niet bedoeld als straf, maar enkel om wat overzicht te kunnen houden...
Is het moderaille dan te tam om in te grijpen ? This smells to actions made to prevent actions of other minded people.

[Freedom Works]

1. we are willing to listen to other ideologies. therefore there is an opposing ideologies forum which you are currently posting in and have been restricted to.
2. i&#39;m not too sure what you mean abt the brackets comment.
3. who&#39;s being censored? you&#39;re still able to articulate your ideas.
Freedom zones.
A land of Freedom in a sea of Collectivism&#33;

[SCDF]

Originally posted by Freedom [email protected] 1 2005, 07:00 PM

1. we are willing to listen to other ideologies. therefore there is an opposing ideologies forum which you are currently posting in and have been restricted to.
2. i&#39;m not too sure what you mean abt the brackets comment.
3. who&#39;s being censored? you&#39;re still able to articulate your ideas.
Freedom zones.
A land of Freedom in a sea of Collectivism&#33;
Indeed.

[Black Dagger]

Indeed.

Yup, you most definately shouldn&#39;t have been restricted :rolleyes:
Didn&#39;t take you long to drop the veil ay?

[peaccenicked]

I find this thread strange. How can someone be restricted for asking a question.
Which BTW no one has answered without refferral to stange equations.
Communism = Russia.
or self defensive posturing. Do we not or do we institute a gagging order or are we really not doing so or is it the beginning of an anti-comunist diatribe.
Let us pay attention merely to the uniqueness of this individual thread.

It is hardly unique. I have heard this query or statement of cynicism since my days in the young communist league.

Communism is alright in theory.




We should ask " what then and which theory of communism is alright"


Communism does not work in practice

We should ask "which practice of communism does nt work"

Is it sharing things?

Will he leave his football with his mates who still want to play.

[Tungsten]

peaccenicked


Communism is alright in theory.

We should ask " what then and which theory of communism is alright"

&#39;Communism&#39; can only work in the limited context of a family unit, perhaps no more than eight people and even then they have to trust one another. It&#39;s not an idea that scales up too well. A bit like dandilion seeds; sure they float through the air, but it wouldn&#39;t be advisable to build an aircraft that flies using the same principle.

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 07:33 PM
peaccenicked


Communism is alright in theory.

We should ask " what then and which theory of communism is alright"

&#39;Communism&#39; can only work in the limited context of a family unit, perhaps no more than eight people and even then they have to trust one another. It&#39;s not an idea that scales up too well. A bit like dandilion seeds; sure they float through the air, but it wouldn&#39;t be advisable to build an aircraft that flies using the same principle.
Again, shitty hypotheses with no backing up.

Read about:

Spanish Anarchosyndicalism in 1936

Paris Commune

Shanghai Commune

Russian soviets before revolution

Hungarian working councils

Argnetinian seized factories in 2002

and then try again chap. :)

[Freedom Works]

Again, shitty hypotheses with no backing up.
So if it works so wonderfully, why don&#39;t you all just gather in one State and overthrow it and the bourgeoisie?

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by Freedom [email protected] 2 2005, 08:12 PM

Again, shitty hypotheses with no backing up.
So if it works so wonderfully, why don&#39;t you all just gather in one State and overthrow it and the bourgeoisie?
Oh, there are many reasons why.

1) Education, mass media, advetsing.....every media of popular information is owned by the bourgeosie.

2) The boirgeosie owns the guns.

3) Its more difficult to spread our message than the bourgeoise, who owns almost everything.

Do you think those who own the sources of information would public statements that would put their ludicrous LIFE IN DANGER?

C&#39;mon, you are not that dumb.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by SCDF+Nov 1 2005, 03:22 PM--> (SCDF @ Nov 1 2005, 03:22 PM)
[email protected] 1 2005, 03:49 PM
Dit is net de reden dat er een Opposing Ideologies is, zodat je nog altijd je mening kunt uiten en we daarover kunnen discussïeren, maar zonder dat het gevaar bestaat dat er nazis in een keer onze fora beginnen te spammen met allerlei onzin. Het is niet bedoeld als straf, maar enkel om wat overzicht te kunnen houden...
Is het moderaille dan te tam om in te grijpen ? This smells to actions made to prevent actions of other minded people. [/b]
Stijn houd u muil man....
Iets kan niet te Tam zijn, die zin klopt trouwens niet. een mens / levend wezen kan tam zijn, niet een leer of voorwerp.

This isnt about who can give the fancy&#39;s anser,
and in my opinion, extreem-recht should even have a free opinion, they should rust in siberia.
Just calm down mate.

[SCDF]

Originally posted by *PRC*Kensei+Nov 2 2005, 09:34 PM--> (*PRC*Kensei &#064; Nov 2 2005, 09:34 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 03:22 PM

[email protected] 1 2005, 03:49 PM
Dit is net de reden dat er een Opposing Ideologies is, zodat je nog altijd je mening kunt uiten en we daarover kunnen discussïeren, maar zonder dat het gevaar bestaat dat er nazis in een keer onze fora beginnen te spammen met allerlei onzin. Het is niet bedoeld als straf, maar enkel om wat overzicht te kunnen houden...
Is het moderaille dan te tam om in te grijpen ? This smells to actions made to prevent actions of other minded people.
Stijn houd u muil man....
Iets kan niet te Tam zijn, die zin klopt trouwens niet. een mens / levend wezen kan tam zijn, niet een leer of voorwerp.

This isnt about who can give the fancy&#39;s anser,
and in my opinion, extreem-recht should even have a free opinion, they should rust in siberia.
Just calm down mate. [/b]
Ik vroeg of het moderaille tam is, de moderators dus.
I still think ristricting me was a wrong idea. ;)

[Rojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 10:40 AM





Ya i agree. Notice he said:


But I&#39;m open for new opinions.

Maybe u should have explained to him the folly of his ideas before just booting him. This doesn&#39;t help us commies get a better image it just helps confirm the stereotypes the capitalists are puting forth.

[KC]

He wasn&#39;t booted. Right now he has an opposing ideology, so he was restricted. If he develops a leftist ideology he will be unrestricted.

[Freedom Works]

He wasn&#39;t booted. Right now he has an opposing ideology, so he was restricted. If he develops a leftist ideology he will be unrestricted.
YOU CAN COME OUT OF THE GULAG WHEN YOU AGREE WITH THE DEPOTS&#33;

:P

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by Freedom [email protected] 3 2005, 08:17 PM

He wasn&#39;t booted. Right now he has an opposing ideology, so he was restricted. If he develops a leftist ideology he will be unrestricted.
YOU CAN COME OUT OF THE GULAG WHEN YOU AGREE WITH THE DEPOTS&#33;

:P
You do realize that if any kind of cappie was led into the other forums, the discussions would degenerate into CAPPIE VS COMMIE arguments?

[Freedom Works]

Yes, but that doesn&#39;t stop the admins of this site from being hypocritical.

[KC]

Yes

No "but" needed. This explains the reason perfectly, you agree that this is what would happen; drop it.

[Freedom Works]

Collectivists are the one&#39;s that deny property rights, not capitalists&#33; That&#39;s why it&#39;s hypocritical.

[Morpheus]

Just because wer&#39;e against property rights doesn&#39;t mean wer&#39;e against rules or free association. We don&#39;t want to associate with you on this board outside of the OI board because youv&#39;e ruin all the discussions.

[Freedom Works]

Tyranny of the majority. That&#39;s what that is.

[Tungsten]

Marmot

Again, shitty hypotheses with no backing up.

Read about:

Spanish Anarchosyndicalism in 1936

Paris Commune

Shanghai Commune

Russian soviets before revolution

Hungarian working councils

Argnetinian seized factories in 2002

and then try again chap. :)

Where are these communes/set-ups now and how successful were they? When that question is answered, then we&#39;ll be able to assess how &#39;shitty&#39; my hypothesis is (or isn&#39;t).

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by Freedom [email protected] 4 2005, 12:10 PM
Tyranny of the majority. That&#39;s what that is.
Oh yes, I totally agree that tyranny of a minority is a much better way of life ... idiot. <_<

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 03:25 PM
Marmot

Again, shitty hypotheses with no backing up.

Read about:

Spanish Anarchosyndicalism in 1936

Paris Commune

Shanghai Commune

Russian soviets before revolution

Hungarian working councils

Argnetinian seized factories in 2002

and then try again chap. :)

Where are these communes/set-ups now and how successful were they? When that question is answered, then we&#39;ll be able to assess how &#39;shitty&#39; my hypothesis is (or isn&#39;t).
Spanish Anarchosyndicalim<---- Lasted about a year, crushed by fascism and stalinites.

Paris Commune<-------- Lasted two months, crushed by the french army.
Shanghai Commune<--- Lasted about two weeks, crushed by maoist forces.

Russian Soviets<-- Deprived of power by Bolsheviks.


Argenitinain seized factories<---- Some of them are under worker control now.

[Tungsten]

Marmot


Spanish Anarchosyndicalim<---- Lasted about a year, crushed by fascism and stalinites.

Paris Commune<-------- Lasted two months, crushed by the french army.
Shanghai Commune<--- Lasted about two weeks, crushed by maoist forces.

Russian Soviets<-- Deprived of power by Bolsheviks.


Argenitinain seized factories<---- Some of them are under worker control now.

What does this prove? That anything that was crushed must have been sucessful? For goodness sake.