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CubaSocialista
16th October 2005, 23:33
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.ad...015143909990004 (http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20051015143909990004)

I love how Americans will censor left-wing "America haters", but Nazis are protected by free speech. Nazi rallies and protests= No cops. Left protests= Cops everywhere.


I was hoping for some Nazi casualties, but so far only shithead cops were wounded.

TOLEDO, Ohio (Oct. 16) - Police began receiving word midweek that gangs were going to descend on a neighborhood where a riot erupted over a planned march by a white supremacist group, but the resulting disturbance was worse than expected, the police chief said Sunday.


AP
A police officer gives chase to a demonstrator Saturday in Toledo, Ohio, where violence erupted between police and local protestors.

Watch Video: Melee in Toledo

Talk About It: Post Thoughts



The riot broke out Saturday when protesters confronted members of the National Socialist Movement who had gathered at a city park. Rioters threw baseball-sized rocks at police, vandalized vehicles and stores, and set fire to a neighborhood bar, authorities said. More than 100 people were arrested and one officer was seriously injured.

Officers who work in the area reported that gang members were planning to turn out in force, and authorities made plans to handle any disturbances, Police Chief Mike Navarre said at a news conference Sunday morning.

"We knew during the preparation that it was going to be a tremendous challenge,'' Navarre said. "Anyone who would accuse us of being underprepared I would take exception with that.''

However, he added the protest lasted longer and was more intense than expected.

About two dozen members of the supremacist group, which calls itself "America's Nazi Party,'' had gathered at a city park just before noon Saturday to march under police protection. The march was called off after rioting started.

Authorities want to determine why protesters turned their anger toward police after the Nazi group left, Lucas County Sheriff James Telb said. Officers wearing gas masks fired tear gas canisters and flash-bang devices designed to stun suspects, only to see the groups reform and resume throwing rocks.

People were "highly angry over the idea that someone from outside the community could come in and insult them'' in their neighborhood, Mayor Jack Ford said.

Twelve officers were injured, including an officer riding in her cruiser who suffered a concussion when a brick came through a side window and hit her in the head, Lt. Ron Pfeifer said Sunday.

A state of emergency remained in effect through the weekend. About 200 officers patrolled the neighborhood overnight, Navarre said, and police reported no problems. Another overnight curfew was to be in effect starting at 8 p.m. Sunday.

City officials stressed the disturbances were confined to a 1-square-mile area. Police arrested 114 people on charges including assault, vandalism, failure to obey police, failure to disperse and overnight curfew violations.

The neighborhood northwest of downtown, full of tree-lined streets and well-kept brick homes, once was a thriving Polish community. But within the last decade it's become home to poorer residents.

A spokesman for the National Socialist Movement blamed police for losing control of the situation.

The neo-Nazi group became interested in the neighborhood because of a white resident's complaints to police about gang violence, Bill White, a group spokesman, said earlier this month.

WilliAnn Moore, president of the Toledo NAACP chapter, had said she worried the march would exacerbate an already tense situation, and urged black youths to ignore the demonstrators. Local leaders were taking steps "so this doesn't turn into some kind of race war,'' she said.

Only a few people were out Sunday morning raking leaves, walking dogs in a park or going to church.

"This never should have happened,'' 80-year-old Ed Kusina, who has lived in the neighborhood nearly all his life, said Sunday. "They should have never let them march here.''

Rioters set fire to 86-year-old Louis Ratajski's neighborhood pub, Jim & Lou's Bar, but he and his nephew, Terry Rybczynski, escaped the flames.

"I was shaking. I feared for my life,'' said Rybczynski said.

Keith White criticized city officials for allowing the march: "They let them come here and expect this not to happen?'' said White, 29.

communist panda
17th October 2005, 15:46
Here is a new site with few footage covering. At the bottom of the page is the videos covering it.


Link (http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=3981004)

h&s
17th October 2005, 15:54
Why did the protesters attack the police? The Nazis are the target.

fukuoka_yakuza
17th October 2005, 16:02
Originally posted by h&[email protected] 17 2005, 03:35 PM
Why did the protesters attack the police? The Nazis are the target.
because the cops were stupid enough to protect those nazis while they marched around. when the nazis left, the cops were the natural target.

h&s
17th October 2005, 16:07
No, when the Nazis left, it should have been mission accomplished. The cops should have been ignored. Fighting police just makes you look bad to the local communities, when it is important to make a good impression. Making a good inmpression and involving the local community builds up anti-Nazi feelings, whereas fighting the cops just builds up apathy towards the situation and makes things worse.
We Nazi-bash much better in the UK... :P

RASH chris
17th October 2005, 16:23
Originally posted by h&[email protected] 17 2005, 03:48 PM
No, when the Nazis left, it should have been mission accomplished. The cops should have been ignored. Fighting police just makes you look bad to the local communities, when it is important to make a good impression. Making a good inmpression and involving the local community builds up anti-Nazi feelings, whereas fighting the cops just builds up apathy towards the situation and makes things worse.
We Nazi-bash much better in the UK... :P
I don't think you understand, the riot wasn't carried out by a bunch of Antifas from ARA or anything. It was the local community. This riot was the local community's response to local law enforcement, and usually when riots break out, it is also used to get revenge for other social issues. This was a largely black population, and, undoubtedly a large number of white cops. The police protected the nazis all day, that makes them guilty of nazi sympathy. I don't care if it was their job to protect them or not, if I had been a cop I would not have shown up for duty that day, anybody who did is clearly a reactionary through and through, and beyond that, just a bad person.

h&s
18th October 2005, 09:38
I see your point, but I still think that it is important to make a good impression on these things. The impression has to be made that the Nazis are the bad ones, so that other members of the community and members of other communities come to the conclusion that the Nazis are bad.
I think that beating the police just sends out the wrong message to others - I'm not trying to defend the police. Though I don't think that their presence was really to protect the nazis - the state doesn't give a shit if a few nazis get lynched. The state does not want movements to grow amongst the working population, so by sending the police to steward the march any action against the Nazis looks bad.
But if, as you say, it was a completely local community thing, I won't condemn it - I just think their tactics are wrong.

RASH chris
18th October 2005, 15:06
Well the only real difference I see between the police and the nazis is that the police are a little more dangerous. Both are organized groups with the sole objective of keeping the proletariat oppressed. But the nazis' numbers and effectiveness are minimal, the police on the other hand, are well armed, well organized, and have the courts to back them up. So when a community gets a chance to fight back against the police and nazis in the same day (two birds with one stone eh) I think they should take it.

And don't act like antifa in the UK don't fight the cops. Cable street beat??? Poll tax riots???

h&s
18th October 2005, 15:31
Well I personally disagree over beating police, but thats just my personal opinion.


And don't act like antifa in the UK don't fight the cops. Cable street beat??? Poll tax riots???
I don't get you.
I'm not saying I'm against a good riot, I just don't think an organised group should set out to beat the police when the Nazis are the target. And I don't really know what Antifa organisations in the UK are like on these things, I just know what my comrades do. :P

RASH chris
18th October 2005, 15:59
I'm not saying I'm against a good riot, I just don't think an organised group should set out to beat the police when the Nazis are the target.

It wasn't an organized group, and the plan was not to get the cops. But the police always make it very clear which side they are on, in the US, the UK and everywhere else I would imagine. The police are class enemies, and as such, I don't see anything wrong with fighting them, in fact, that's what we're (as communists) supposed to do.


And I don't really know what Antifa organisations in the UK are like on these things, I just know what my comrades do.

Cable Street was way back in the day. 70s I think, the BNP or NF decided to march through some town and the whole town came out to protest. The police, of course, defended the fascists. So the community blocked off the streets and essentially ran wild in the streets attacking the fascists and their police cronies.

There's a famous quote from it where somebody said, about the streets "it looks like a scene from Spain in the 30s".

You don't know what the poll tax riots were? C'mon man! I don't even live in the UK. Poll tax riots came out of a big protest against the poll tax where the police essentially got carried away (police riot) and were randomly chargeing groups of average middle aged protestors. Needless to say, it evolved into pitched street battles against the police, I believe the organisation Class War was involved in this and I believe it was a formulative protest for them.

h&s
18th October 2005, 16:13
The police are class enemies, and as such, I don't see anything wrong with fighting them, in fact, that's what we're (as communists) supposed to do.
No, I don't think so. As communists we are supposed to change the ruling class from the borgeoisie to the proletariat - fighting the police on a demo usually does nothing to help that.


Cable Street was way back in the day. 70s I think, the BNP or NF decided to march through some town and the whole town came out to protest. The police, of course, defended the fascists. So the community blocked off the streets and essentially ran wild in the streets attacking the fascists and their police cronies.

It was in the 30's, when Mosely's Brownshirts (Fascist Alliance) thought it would be a good idea to march through a Jewish area of London.
Apparently the violence was started by a man holding a red flag on the top of a building. :)
I know all about the poll tax riots too, of course - I know people who spent months and months solid fighting that tax.
I just didn't get what your point was getting at!

RASH chris
18th October 2005, 16:24
fighting the police on a demo usually does nothing to help that.

I've never "fought the police" before. But I have, many, many times, fought back against the police. And I think that is the connection you aren't making. The police act as a private army for the ruling class to use against the proletariat. This is highlighted every now and then, namely at protests and when fascists are in the streets. I have never seen a cop protecting a communist, socialist, or anarchist. But I can't even count the number of times I have seen fully uniformed and decked out riot cops form lines in front of fascists and conservatives in order to protect them.

I have also seen, on more than a few occasions, police encourage right wingers to attack protesters, I have seen european police allow fascists through police lines to attack anarchists, then prevent the anarchists from fleeing. I have been told by police that I'm "on the wrong fucking side".

The police are always the most reactionary forces of the bourgeois state. They always have been, they always will be. No working class person could ever stand to be a cop. As proven by the mass police desertions in New Orleans (all those who were still proletarians refused to report for duty because they were not going to be lap dogs for the rich).


I just didn't get what your point was getting at!

The point was that anti-fascist actions usually result in not only fighting the fascists, but also the police. It is history, it is the future. It has justification.

Thanks for the corrections on the cable street beat.

Paul R
18th October 2005, 16:26
Im glad to see that people in the community rallied against the nazi's. Good to see the vermin get told that there is no place for them.

I can see the arguments for and against fighting the police. On the one hand they did protect the nazi's and Im glad people showed that they thought that they shouldnt be protecting bastards like that.

On the other hand like the previous poster (sorry mate cany remember your name) once the nazi's were gone it was mission accomplished.

RASH chris
18th October 2005, 18:19
once the nazi's were gone it was mission accomplished.

As a communist, I would say "when the bourgeoisie is gone...then it's mission accomplished."

Paul R
19th October 2005, 11:10
well...you've got a point ;)

h&s
19th October 2005, 15:31
I've never "fought the police" before. But I have, many, many times, fought back against the police. And I think that is the connection you aren't making. The police act as a private army for the ruling class to use against the proletariat. This is highlighted every now and then, namely at protests and when fascists are in the streets. I have never seen a cop protecting a communist, socialist, or anarchist. But I can't even count the number of times I have seen fully uniformed and decked out riot cops form lines in front of fascists and conservatives in order to protect them.

I have also seen, on more than a few occasions, police encourage right wingers to attack protesters, I have seen european police allow fascists through police lines to attack anarchists, then prevent the anarchists from fleeing. I have been told by police that I'm "on the wrong fucking side".

The police are always the most reactionary forces of the bourgeois state. They always have been, they always will be. No working class person could ever stand to be a cop. As proven by the mass police desertions in New Orleans (all those who were still proletarians refused to report for duty because they were not going to be lap dogs for the rich).
I get what you mean, and I knew that already - I have no problem in defence against police attacks, or even attacking them in a riot.
I just don't think that groups should set out to attack the police. If the community decides to, then we join in.
I was just a little confused as to what the nature of this attack on the police was - now you've explained it, I have no problem with it.