Direct action against SUV's

[bunk]

How do you feel about this. I think it should be started now at least in cities. The fact that they use excessive fuel is a issue but it's not that important as oil makes our plastic, fertilizes supermarket vegetables, get's the food their....... The worst thing is that if they hit a pedestrian then the pedestrian is much more likely to die. They obstruct view to cars behind them and pedestrians crossing the street. Who's heard of the group in Paris that has been deflating SUV's tyre's? Do you think it's a valid target?

[bolshevik butcher]

hmmmmm It pissess me off seeing them in the street as well, but i dont know if going at them with a sledgehammer or bursting there tyres gets the message across at all. All it will do is make people think of you as a vandal.

[Organic Revolution]

but it will get these earth destroying gas guzzling machines off the street, if even for a few days.

[bed_of_nails]

Where I live many people drive SUV's because all the freeway accidents. People in SUV's are more likely to live, so people drive them.

[enigma2517]

First off you have to stop and consider there are people who actually use SUVs for a functional purpose.

My friend works for a construction company, he drives a Ford SUV because he has to carry all his gear in the back.

Smashing up cars won't really do much. Then again what will? It's quite frusterating I admit.

I don't think we should sit on our hands. The problem is mainly a.) rich yuppies who do it for style b.) people who do it for security. Solution? Public transportation! Of course, who in the right mind would advocate using the sorry excuse for public transportation that exists today?

Yes, controlled property destruction is a way to send a message. It should be used sometimes. But how well can you send that message by fucking with somebody else's car?

SUV's are not the problem. The problem is the profit system. Life cannot be sustainable under such a paradigm. It is the core of all the problems. You can protest Coke and you can protest SUV's and you can denounce every other single bit of capitalist society. But until we make CLASS the main issue, everything else is really hopeless.

So weigh the decision...is one more SUV that harmful to the Earth? Do you stand to gain more or lose more? In my opinion, you'll have +1 alienated person and thats it. I don't think people will notice...or much less take you seriously.

Is there a more specific target you can pick? Is there some kind of flyer or pamphlet you can leave nearby?

I can't tell you that, but I'll tell you that there good and bad ways of doing everything. Direct action should always be the cause, but direct action is not always violent. Just keep that in mind.

[bed_of_nails]

I dont care why you do it. If you fuck with my car, I am going to plan on beating the shit out of you at the very least. My car is something I need to transport equipment around.

[violencia.Proletariat]

your not going to accomplish much. you smash up some cars and then the people will claim insurance, etc, this will just drive up insurance for everyone, including those who DONT drive suv's! THAT WOULD BE ME!!! :angry: why not take a more informative approach, start giving away bikes for free, etc.

[RASH chris]

Post consumption property destruction is completely absurd. It does not accomplish anything but alienating you from general society.

I know a number of proletarians who drive SUVs, myself included. It was very cheap and it's a reliable car. (especially when it starts to get snowy/icy, and because my city has no public transportation)

At the dealerships though, that's a whole nother issue.

[Commie Rat]

no need for actual destruction is make them more aware

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 11:46 PM
Where I live many people drive SUV's because all the freeway accidents. People in SUV's are more likely to live, so people drive them.
If an SUV hit a pedestrian they are much more likely to die than if they are hit by an normal car

[rioters bloc]

quoted for truth.

people keep getting bigger and bigger cars because they feel it will 'protect' them more, when really if everyone drove smaller cars [who could, ie didnt need them to survive] it would work out much more effectively. but i dunno if smashing em up is the best way to go about it - nate has a very good point about insurance.

bikes are great. i misplaced my bike today and went crazy with worry for a coupla hours :(

[Clutch]

This will sound like madness and everyone here will hate me for it but here goes:

I drive what yanks refer to as an "SUV".

Thing is though, it actually uses less fuel than my friends Toyota Camry.

Mine: 11L/100km

Camry: 12.5L/100km

[Clutch]

Originally posted by rioters [email protected] 17 2005, 08:42 PM
quoted for truth.

people keep getting bigger and bigger cars because they feel it will 'protect' them more, when really if everyone drove smaller cars [who could, ie didnt need them to survive] it would work out much more effectively. but i dunno if smashing em up is the best way to go about it - nate has a very good point about insurance.

bikes are great. i misplaced my bike today and went crazy with worry for a coupla hours :(
It's not about insurance, but about safety. Heard a story about a guy who had his wheel-nuts smashed off with a sledge hammer, the wheel buckled when he was driving, he almost lost control and had to pull over and call a tow truck. If the wheel actually came off some poor sap could have easily been killed.

So before you actually vandalise someones car like that, think about what could happen and who could get killed because of it.

[bunk]

Originally posted by Josh+Oct 17 2005, 10:34 AM--> (Josh @ Oct 17 2005, 10:34 AM)
[email protected] 16 2005, 11:46 PM
Where I live many people drive SUV's because all the freeway accidents. People in SUV's are more likely to live, so people drive them.
If an SUV hit a pedestrian they are much more likely to die than if they are hit by an normal car [/b]
Also i forget to mention if everyone is driving an SUV then any safety advantage is nulled. So far i've just been putting signs on SUV's saying what's wrong with them and also to embaress them, by putting an ANTI-SOCIAL VEHICLE poster for everyone to see as they walk by. This isn't going to have much effect though. I wouldn't do anything which is not recognisable before someone starts driving and therefore it won't put them in danger

[Wanted Man]

My friend works for a construction company, he drives a Ford SUV because he has to carry all his gear in the back.

Smashing up cars won't really do much. Then again what will? It's quite frusterating I admit.


I dont care why you do it. If you fuck with my car, I am going to plan on beating the shit out of you at the very least. My car is something I need to transport equipment around.


It's not about insurance, but about safety. Heard a story about a guy who had his wheel-nuts smashed off with a sledge hammer, the wheel buckled when he was driving, he almost lost control and had to pull over and call a tow truck. If the wheel actually came off some poor sap could have easily been killed.

So before you actually vandalise someones car like that, think about what could happen and who could get killed because of it.

All very well said. If you deflate an SUV's tyres, it not only becomes MORE dangerous than it already is(and opponents already claim it's very dangerous ;)), and if the driver knows it's because of your activism, he'll just get pissed off. Congratulations, you've taken one car off the road for a few days, pissed someone(quite possibly a proletarian) off and might even have gotten him to become a Republican.

Besides, soon enough we'll have hybrid SUVs and the whole fuel guzzling argument will become moot. As for the lack of visibility due to height, well, a terrible pity, we're not illegalising trucks and buses for that either, are we?

[bunk]

There are hybrid SUV's, but they still use more fuel than a normal car and it uses more resources to make than a normal car for the same number of occupants. In paris when the group deflated the tyres they made it so you could not set off.

[h&s]

:rolleyes:
Trashing 4x4&#39;s, yay&#33; Reacting to a problem instead of actually doing something about it. Typical. <_<
And the funniest people are those who think that a good way to trash gas-guzzlers is to burn them. Which just happens to release more toxic chemicals than it ever would as a car.


Where I live many people drive SUV&#39;s because all the freeway accidents. People in SUV&#39;s are more likely to live, so people drive them.
Shame they got their facts wrong. People who drive SUV&#39;s are better off in collisions, but that doesn&#39;t make them safe. SUV drivers are more likely to be killed in their car because of its high centre of gravity, making it more likely to crash.

[Wanted Man]

There are hybrid SUV&#39;s, but they still use more fuel than a normal car and it uses more resources to make than a normal car for the same number of occupants. In paris when the group deflated the tyres they made it so you could not set off.

Fair enough. So where do you draw the line? What is the maximum amount of fuel a car should be allowed to guzzle? Okay, so the car couldn&#39;t take off at all, that&#39;s nice, but it&#39;s still bothersome to the driver, who, as I said, might become frustrated with regards to leftist activism altogether. Such actions are nice purely to tell people they are polluting, but terrible when we look at the broader picture of uniting the proletariat against the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

[bunk]

I wouldn&#39;t target one which has mud on it or is old. The ones to be targeted, big BMW X5&#39;s and X3&#39;s, lexus&#39;s etc. are not driven by working class people.

[bed_of_nails]

I drive a Suburban. Fuck with my car (part of my living) and I garuntee you that I wont be nearly as willing to take part in your revolution.

[Xvall]

I don&#39;t think trashing SUV&#39;s is going to accomplish much - but I don&#39;t have a problem with it.

[FatFreeMilk]

Direct actiona against SUVs? That&#39;s bullshit. Like somebody said earlier, if I saw somebody messing with my car I would beat the shit out of them. Seriously man, fucking with peoples&#39; expensive personal property is not the way to go.

And I&#39;m not sure even messing with Hummers still on the lot is right either. Last year some assholes from greenpeace or ELF or whatever destroyed a whole mess of hummers on the lot. Fucking hypocrite assholes ended up causing more damage to the earth than all those cars combined would&#39;ve produced. The spray paint they used released tons cfc s or some shit and burning tires is never good for the atmosphere&#33;

But to be honest, I&#39;m not all against SUvs anyways. The gazz guzzling argument is shit now that more and more company&#39;s are making hybrid SUVs. Even Lexus is coming out with a super nice one that gets like 60 mpg.

You&#39;d be spend your energy better on some other more important cause.

[Xvall]

But destruction in fun.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

What a fucking stupid idea. All you&#39;re doing is causing unnecessary hassle for car owners. an SUV in the city is a pretty stupid idea, but their owners are already paying for that in terms of shitty mileage.

And no, trashing people&#39;s SUV won&#39;t make them think twice about owning one. It just makes them think "Stupid punks, I&#39;ll fucking kill &#39;em if I ever catch &#39;em".
And posting pretentious little notices that look like parking tickets is a low blow to get attention. They&#39;ll just see it&#39;s a fake and throw it aside in disgust.

[bunk]

SUV&#39;s are the most dangerous vehicles if they hit a pedestrian, like a recent study in the UK said, &#39;they should carry a health warning&#39;.

[bunk]

Even though SUVs are frequently marketed as safer than cars, they are in fact more dangerous. Government studies have found that the occupant death rate for mid-sized SUVs is 6 percent higher than cars. For large SUVs, the death rate is 8 percent higher than minivans and mid-sized cars like the Ford Taurus.

Since SUVs ride higher off the ground and have a higher center of gravity, their rollover rate is three times worse than for cars. In addition, current government safety standards do not require SUVs to have reinforced roofs, which would help protect occupants in case of a rollover. Rollovers account for about 1,000 deaths each year - deaths that would have been prevented if the accident occurred in a car.

Given that SUVs are built with stiff frames, they are more likely to kill other drivers in an accident. Department of Transportation scientists study the "kill rate" - how manyother people certain vehicle models are responsible for killing each year in crashes. Looking at SUVs, these scientists came to a frightening conclusion. For every one life saved by driving an SUV, five others will be taken. In one specific instance, they found that the SUV Chevy Tahoe kills 122 people for every 1 million models on the road. In comparison, the Honda Accord kills 21 people.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You do also realise that smaller cars fold like cheap tents in an accident, compromising the safety of those inside? It&#39;s little wonder that people choose stiff-framed SUVs when they can afford them.

And until they fit roll cages and such as standard on smaller cars, I don&#39;t see it changing.

[FatFreeMilk]

SUV&#39;s are the most dangerous vehicles if they hit a pedestrian, like a recent study in the UK said, &#39;they should carry a health warning&#39;. So wouldn&#39;t it be more deadly to get hit by a bus? Maybe those should have warnings too.

Or maybe people should just learn to not stand in the fucking street. Or maybe it&#39;s okay if they get hit cus that&#39;s kinda like nature where the goofy gazelle gets eaten, except it&#39;s some dumbass standing in the street ;)

[bunk]

Bullbars should also be banned

[Clutch]

I agree with that, they&#39;re completely unnecessary and do some serious damage when they hit people. I&#39;ve been trying to get rid of mine, but I can&#39;t find a second hand bumper-bar to replace it.

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 06:41 PM
I drive a Suburban. Fuck with my car (part of my living) and I garuntee you that I wont be nearly as willing to take part in your revolution.
oh, the materalism. you are willing to give up ideals because some one fucked with your gas guzzler. dont you find that the least bit rediculous?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by organic revolution+Oct 19 2005, 08:57 PM--> (organic revolution @ Oct 19 2005, 08:57 PM)
[email protected] 17 2005, 06:41 PM
I drive a Suburban. Fuck with my car (part of my living) and I garuntee you that I wont be nearly as willing to take part in your revolution.
oh, the materalism. you are willing to give up ideals because some one fucked with your gas guzzler. dont you find that the least bit rediculous? [/b]
Why don&#39;t you try owning a car someday in order to get to work? walking/cycling is not always possible and can be bloody dangerous.

Try giving up faddish lifestyleism in favour of what most working people have to deal with every day.

[bunk]

I&#39;m trying to work out a way to destroy the bullbars on a vehicle. Primitivelt i know i can do some damage to the bars by smashing them but perhaps with alever or something i can get half of it off

[Clutch]

Dude, if you try to lever a bullbar off, you will only succeed in damaging the mounts, making it near impossible to ever actually remove the damn thing.

[bunk]

Smash it up with a sledgehammer seems to be the only option

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

If you&#39;re talking about removing the bullbars off your own vehicle, get a mechanic or someone to do it. If it&#39;s someone else&#39;s vehicle you&#39;re talking about, forget about it. Damaging someone&#39;s bullbars will only make them more dangerous, turning those smooth bars into bent and twisted bits of metal will do that.

[bunk]

That&#39;s why i need to get them off. I&#39;m trying to think

[bed_of_nails]

Originally posted by organic revolution+Oct 19 2005, 01:57 PM--> (organic revolution @ Oct 19 2005, 01:57 PM)
[email protected] 17 2005, 06:41 PM
I drive a Suburban. Fuck with my car (part of my living) and I garuntee you that I wont be nearly as willing to take part in your revolution.
oh, the materalism. you are willing to give up ideals because some one fucked with your gas guzzler. dont you find that the least bit rediculous? [/b]
Well if you are trying to wage a revolution by fucking over the workers you are claiming to help, do you want me to call you "Uncle Stalin" now or later?

People rely on SUV&#39;s for work sometimes, and I know that the reasons I drive a Suburban for are the towing capabilities and the fact the thing is pretty damn safe. It is a fucking tank. People have shot the sides and the bullents just left big dents and chipped the paint.

[Commie Rat]

people have shot at you?
the only practical use i can see for a SUV is for smashing down a line of pigs

[bunk]

Your willing to have safety at the expense of others. If everyone drove an SUV for safety then any safety benefits would be nulled. In the UK workers don&#39;t drive SUV&#39;s i&#39;m sure of it. People who drive them for work have the name of their company on it so it&#39;s pretty easy to avoid.

[bed_of_nails]

I live in a place where there are an alarming number of freeway accidents resulting in the deaths of both drivers. I like being alive.

[bunk]

Why do you drive? How far do you live from work? Do you live in the suburbs? Unsustainable housing

[bed_of_nails]

I live approximately 30 minutes outside of a very large city. I have to take the freeways to get just about anywhere, and there are often drunk drivers on the wrong side.

I drive for work, school, and when I need to go somewhere in the city for a recreational purpose; recreational purposes.

What does unsustainable housing have to do with this?

[bunk]

why not use public transport or a car pooling system?

[bed_of_nails]

I live far out of town. Very far.

[FatFreeMilk]

why not use public transport or a car pooling system? You must live in a very large city where everywhere you want to go is in a very close proximity.

It&#39;s not like that in Southern California. If you have somewhere to go, chances are you&#39;re going to have to drive there. Where I live isn&#39;t the complete boonies but things aren&#39;t that close to me. Walking to the store isn&#39;t a quick turn around the corner.

WTF is a bullbar anyway?

[Clutch]

The alluminium thing on the front of this "SUV" is a bullbar.

http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/3824/pajero2yz.th.jpg (http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pajero2yz.jpg)

[bed_of_nails]

I dont have one of those.

[bunk]

That&#39;s the problem. A lot of the US is built all taking account of cars so you have to drive to get anywhere. At least England was built with railways in mind.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Here in Belgium public transportation is useful and reliable, but i can imagine in the US things are a little different . What I don&#39;t get: if you have to drive a lot every day, why would you want to drive a car that uses approximatly 14l of oil?
Isn&#39;t that just a waste of money (and the environment)? If the roads are dangerous because of drunk or irresponsible drivers, try to do something about that instead of hiding in your own "tank". I can understand you want to feel safe and want to survive , but think about the people who can&#39;t afford their personal tank..

[bed_of_nails]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 03:53 AM
That&#39;s the problem. A lot of the US is built all taking account of cars so you have to drive to get anywhere. At least England was built with railways in mind.
Let me state this again: I live out in the boondocks. To be more exact, I live out in some mountains.

Public transportation is not an option. I am getting rather tired of repeating this line.


Isn&#39;t that just a waste of money (and the environment)? If the roads are dangerous because of drunk or irresponsible drivers, try to do something about that instead of hiding in your own "tank". I can understand you want to feel safe and want to survive , but think about the people who can&#39;t afford their personal tank..

There really isnt much I can do about other people&#39;s driving behavior. I can drive safely, but that doesnt stop someone else from crashing into me. If it is my life to be saved, or that of a drunk driver that decided to drive in the wrong lane on the freeway; I am saving my life.

[Latifa]

Bullbars aren&#39;t THAT dangerous, unless they are like solid steel.

[bunk]

yes they are

[bed_of_nails]

Guns are dangerous too, but people own those. Do you want everybody to stop using guns?

[bunk]

The fact is that people don&#39;t recognize bullbars in the same way that they recognize guns. Both can be lethal but bullbars are legal in cities as fashion statements and there is not as bigger social stigma about them as there is guns. People who have them for fashion need to be shamed out of them.

[bed_of_nails]

There has to be more of a purpose to them than just fashion.

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 07:51 PM
There has to be more of a purpose to them than just fashion.
not in cities

[Commie Rat]

in congested urban areas all you really need is golf buggys

[Clutch]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 24 2005, 07:23 PM
in congested urban areas all you really need is golf buggys
Like a FIAT Panda? They do a 4WD version of it and (don&#39;t quote me on this) you have to pay extra registration tax on it because it is a gas guzzling 4WD (it has a 1.2 litre engine).

[Clutch]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 05:51 AM
There has to be more of a purpose to them than just fashion.
In the bush where you a likely to hit animals at speed, they are useful. Unless that animal is a wombat. And if you need something to act as a winch housing, bullbars are just about the only safe and legal thing you can use. But in cities, there aren&#39;t many animals, especially not wombats and there is no possible use for a winch either. And Comrade Josh, if you have a look under the front of the vehicle, you should see a set of bolts you can remove to get the bullbar off. Just make sure it doesn&#39;t fall on top of you when you take them out.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Hmm I wonder what happened to personal choice?

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 11:10 AM
Hmm I wonder what happened to personal choice?
Personal choice. It&#39;s putting pedestrians at risk and clogging up our high streets. Personal choice ends when the community stop welcoming people commuting to their office or dropping of the children in &#39;tank&#39; like vehicles

[danny android]

Originally posted by Josh+Oct 24 2005, 11:18 AM--> (Josh @ Oct 24 2005, 11:18 AM)
[email protected] 24 2005, 11:10 AM
Hmm I wonder what happened to personal choice?
Personal choice. It&#39;s putting pedestrians at risk [/b]
Yeah I know what you mean by putting pedestrians at risk. In my town some kid just got hit by an SUV and was killed instantly. However I don&#39;t think that destroying SUVs is really the ansewer. Though I would like to blow those bastards up sometimes.

[FatFreeMilk]

Isn&#39;t that just a waste of money (and the environment)? If the roads are dangerous because of drunk or irresponsible drivers, try to do something about that instead of hiding in your own "tank". *Ahem* There isn&#39;t much of a danger of drunk drivers on your morning commute to work.

You guys swear like SUVs are ginormous vehicles. That&#39;s bullshit hyperbole and you know it. If a pedestrian gets hits by any vehicle they&#39;re most lilkey going to get really fucked up. But also you guys must be used to lots of pedestrians. Once again, there aren&#39;t many over here. And the ones we do have have sense enough to walk on the sidewalk. So it&#39;s not really an issue.

As for "bullbars", who cares. I don&#39;t really see that on trucks or SUVs much over here, and when I do, they&#39;re only on 4Xs that actually go offroad(ing).

The ignorance in this thread is getting anoying.

[bed_of_nails]

Originally posted by Josh+Oct 24 2005, 04:18 AM--> (Josh @ Oct 24 2005, 04:18 AM)
[email protected] 24 2005, 11:10 AM
Hmm I wonder what happened to personal choice?
Personal choice. It&#39;s putting pedestrians at risk and clogging up our high streets. Personal choice ends when the community stop welcoming people commuting to their office or dropping of the children in &#39;tank&#39; like vehicles [/b]
Thats where Darwin comes in :D Survival of the fittest. If you are dumb enough to step out into traffic, then the gene pool just got that much smarter.

[bunk]

Fascist alert...

Your ignorance is showing. You havem&#39;t heard of speeding, incompotent ddrivers, people getting knocked over at crossings??

[Clutch]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 08:36 PM
Fascist alert...

Your ignorance is showing. You havem&#39;t heard of speeding, incompotent ddrivers, people getting knocked over at crossings??
That&#39;s an interesting thought, speeding is a bit hard to prevent, incompetent drivers only need proper training (our government thinks this won&#39;t do anything to reduce our road toll), and as for crossings: we got taught in kindergarten to look left, look right, listen and then cross.

[bunk]

Yeah but it&#39;s been known for drivers to hit people at zebra crossing when a pedestrian is already on it.