Nazis attacked in Toledo Ohio

[JohnTheMarxist]

This is just another example of the rising anti-racist left wing militancy growing in America...and of course the police at this rally protect nazi pigs and not the black people they are harrassing by marching thru their neighborhoods. The corporate media is also quick to turnt he story on the blacks and show sympathy for the nazi pigs.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/15/nazi.march/index.html

[Master Che]

It pisses me off how these cops and the media protected those bastards :angry: .They should be humiliated and hung in public for their stupidity.

[Colombia]

Dounds like you are opposers of their free speech?

[Stellix]

This is a common Nazi tactic.They instigate riots and use them for propoganda purposes.

The best part is how those nazi cowards ran home to their mommies. :lol:

[Hampton]

A statement from the National Socialist Movement said Toledo city officials had said they would not issue a permit for the group's march. The group said it did not seek a permit, because it didn't ask for "special accommodations."

Then why were they even in the street if they knew some shit was about to happen?

Anyone else find it funny that the Nazi's spokesasshole's name is Bill White? Like we didn't know already.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 05:03 AM
sounds like you are opposers of their free speech?
You bet! "Free speech" to me dosn't include attempting to intimidate or terrorize people. This wasn't nazi theory sitting on a book shelf or even a group of nazis sitting in a room having a circle-jerk of "white pride"; coming into someone's town and promoting the repression of a group of workers should not be tolerated. It's really encourageing that people are standing up to the nazis and other groups like the minutemen and saying: "you will not be able to go anywhere unapposed".

[Colombia]

Are these people really nazis or just fascists because the two sayings commnly intertwine.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The artical claimed that the group considers itself "American NAZIs" and they are called the "National Socialists", so I would say that they are nazis.

[Clutch]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 03:03 PM
Dounds like you are opposers of their free speech?
Fuck their free speech, the last time nazis were allowed to speak freely, over 50 million people lost their lives in a brutal and nearly pointless war.

[Xvall]

Dounds like you are opposers of their free speech?

Free speech? We don't even want them alive, let alone talking about... well... anything.


Are these people really nazis or just fascists because the two sayings commnly intertwine.

We consider them fascists, though I notice their actual economic perspectives tend to very. Nowadays, however, "fascist" is just a term people use to describe something they don't like, and it is quickly loosing it's original meaning.

[drain.you]

I'm pretty sure Nazis would be arrested for inciting hatred if they did that kinda thing in the UK.

[bolshevik butcher]

Dunno, during the '70s at national front marcehs the police had a record for colamping down harshly on the anti-nazi leagues actions.

[Wanted Man]

Can anyone from the "International Socialists Organisation" or "One People's Project" inform me why the fuck they bother reacting to such idiots in the first place?

[Sabocat]

Not being a member of the ISO, but having participated in a few anti-fascist protests over the years I think I can answer your question.

Because it has to be made clear that they will never be allowed to speak, demonstrate, given any platform or otherwise spread their filth in public.

Each demonstration that these idiots start should be met with violence. Until they get the point and realize that they are in direct physical danger from their vile ideology they should be confronted and driven back under the rocks they came from each and every time.

Allowing them any platform, or allowing them their "right of free speech" is in my mind, just insipid nazi sympathizing.

[dso79]

Why did those so-called anti-fascists attack the local population and vandalize their property? There weren’t even any nazis around. Such riots will only increase support for the NSM.

[tiger]

Originally posted by Clutch+Oct 16 2005, 07:04 AM--> (Clutch @ Oct 16 2005, 07:04 AM)
[email protected] 16 2005, 03:03 PM
Dounds like you are opposers of their free speech?
Fuck their free speech, the last time nazis were allowed to speak freely, over 50 million people lost their lives in a brutal and nearly pointless war. [/b]
Your so right... we don't want that to happen again...

But you don't want people to destroy property that has nothing to do witht he nazis...

[Colombia]

Originally posted by Clutch+Oct 16 2005, 07:04 AM--> (Clutch @ Oct 16 2005, 07:04 AM)
[email protected] 16 2005, 03:03 PM
Dounds like you are opposers of their free speech?
Fuck their free speech, the last time nazis were allowed to speak freely, over 50 million people lost their lives in a brutal and nearly pointless war. [/b]
There are those out there who would say we communists also killed millions in the gulags.

The point I'm trying to make out though is that a person's right to free speech should be held sancrosanct. Regardless of how you view it.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

stupid fucking nazis and their stupid fucking free speech.

throw them against a fucking wall and shoot them. bet they wont be complaining about free speech THEN.

[tiger]

Shoot them? No... make them communsits!

[Ownthink]

2 in the chest and 1 in the head is the only language I speak to Nazis.

[Xvall]

Each demonstration that these idiots start should be met with violence. Until they get the point and realize that they are in direct physical danger from their vile ideology they should be confronted and driven back under the rocks they came from each and every time.

I agree 100%.


2 in the chest and 1 in the head is the only language I speak to Nazis.

Quoted for truth.


Shoot them? No... make them communsits!

Not likely to happen. With the appropriate tools, however, we can make sure that they're all red.

[Deutsche Ideologie]

Well, the blacks did just what the Nazis wanted them to do.

Now the Nazis have gotten worldwide attention.. Good job black people!

[Guest1]

I think we should start warning people for criminalizing violent responses to Nazis.

Always blame the victim?

[Guest1]

And actually, ti sounds like the article ignores their own photographer's account:


Most of the violence happened when residents, who had pelted the Nazi marchers with bottles and rocks, took out their anger on police, said Brian Jagodzinski, chief news photographer for CNN affiliate WTVG.

Video showed crowds at around 2:25 p.m. using bats to bring down a wooden fence as looters broke into a small grocery store.

"The crowd was very ... extremely agitated at the police ... for doing this [making arrests in] the community when they should be doing this to the Nazis," Jagodzinski said.

[barret]

I'm totally against the NAZI Movement and anything they do, but we cannot take away one group's rights because of what they believe. If this were true, then communist would never be able to hold protest, neither would Anti-War protestors. If anything, massive government regualtions should have been put on the event, such as what the governement did to the KKK In NYC ( they said the only way the could hold the protest is if they didn't wear their hoods, and guess what, almost no one came to it).

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 08:00 PM
I'm totally against the NAZI Movement and anything they do, but we cannot take away one group's rights because of what they believe. If this were true, then communist would never be able to hold protest, neither would Anti-War protestors. If anything, massive government regualtions should have been put on the event, such as what the governement did to the KKK In NYC ( they said the only way the could hold the protest is if they didn't wear their hoods, and guess what, almost no one came to it).
If we kill them all we don't have to worry about their "free speech".

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 04:04 PM
Why did those so-called anti-fascists attack the local population and vandalize their property? There weren’t even any nazis around. Such riots will only increase support for the NSM.
If you were in a position of authority and everytime a nazi rally happened rioting broke out in response, wouldn't you move to stop the nazis from marching? That's the cost effective solution for the authorities. The more rioting occurs, the more the police are seen portecting the nazis, the better it is for the cause of anti-fascism.



Well, the blacks did just what the Nazis wanted them to do.

Now the Nazis have gotten worldwide attention.. Good job black people!

Shut up you racist, there were a bunch of white leftists there to.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Ownthink+Oct 17 2005, 12:15 AM--> (Ownthink @ Oct 17 2005, 12:15 AM)
[email protected] 16 2005, 08:00 PM
I'm totally against the NAZI Movement and anything they do, but we cannot take away one group's rights because of what they believe. If this were true, then communist would never be able to hold protest, neither would Anti-War protestors. If anything, massive government regualtions should have been put on the event, such as what the governement did to the KKK In NYC ( they said the only way the could hold the protest is if they didn't wear their hoods, and guess what, almost no one came to it).
If we kill them all we don't have to worry about their "free speech". [/b]
I agree with you 100% ;)

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by Deutsche [email protected] 16 2005, 07:28 PM
Well, the blacks did just what the Nazis wanted them to do.

Now the Nazis have gotten worldwide attention.. Good job black people!
Racist.

[barret]

Originally posted by Ownthink+Oct 16 2005, 08:15 PM--> (Ownthink @ Oct 16 2005, 08:15 PM)
[email protected] 16 2005, 08:00 PM
I'm totally against the NAZI Movement and anything they do, but we cannot take away one group's rights because of what they believe. If this were true, then communist would never be able to hold protest, neither would Anti-War protestors. If anything, massive government regualtions should have been put on the event, such as what the governement did to the KKK In NYC ( they said the only way the could hold the protest is if they didn't wear their hoods, and guess what, almost no one came to it).
If we kill them all we don't have to worry about their "free speech". [/b]
Well, I'm attempting to find a humane alternative, since just 'killing them' doesn't necessarily work in the real world.

[Anarchist Freedom]

Fuck nazis.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 05:03 AM
Dounds like you are opposers of their free speech?
Free speech isn't a reality. It is always in the hands of a government with its own agenda. Leftist protestors are always attacked by the police. Rightist protestors are always protected. The media sees nothing wrong with it, and the police don't question the morality of it.

When someone publically advocates inequality in favor of chauvinism and murder, that person deserves more than just death.

[tiger]

Originally posted by Ownthink+Oct 17 2005, 12:15 AM--> (Ownthink @ Oct 17 2005, 12:15 AM)
[email protected] 16 2005, 08:00 PM
I'm totally against the NAZI Movement and anything they do, but we cannot take away one group's rights because of what they believe. If this were true, then communist would never be able to hold protest, neither would Anti-War protestors. If anything, massive government regualtions should have been put on the event, such as what the governement did to the KKK In NYC ( they said the only way the could hold the protest is if they didn't wear their hoods, and guess what, almost no one came to it).
If we kill them all we don't have to worry about their "free speech". [/b]
Kill them? I don't think that would solve anything. I mean, there would just be more nazis then. Then they get a fucking reason to do what the fuck they are doing.

However, if that is the only thing that works, then I am not against it.

[Tekun]

Tha problem lies in the fact that the Nazi's did exactly what they wanted to do
They provoked blacks into rioting, destroying, and getting arrested
And true to nature, the media ate this shit up

Black ppl gotta unite and act with discipline
Fuck rioting, and take a intelligent/militant approach to these problem (and if socialist :D )

^Black Panthers

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by tiger+Oct 17 2005, 02:34 AM--> (tiger @ Oct 17 2005, 02:34 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 12:15 AM

[email protected] 16 2005, 08:00 PM
I'm totally against the NAZI Movement and anything they do, but we cannot take away one group's rights because of what they believe. If this were true, then communist would never be able to hold protest, neither would Anti-War protestors. If anything, massive government regualtions should have been put on the event, such as what the governement did to the KKK In NYC ( they said the only way the could hold the protest is if they didn't wear their hoods, and guess what, almost no one came to it).
If we kill them all we don't have to worry about their "free speech".
Kill them? I don't think that would solve anything. I mean, there would just be more nazis then. Then they get a fucking reason to do what the fuck they are doing.

However, if that is the only thing that works, then I am not against it. [/b]
We could have the most ironic of sutuations and mass kill Nazis?

I'm just throwing things out there! :lol:

[Free Palestine]

I feel that they should be confronted. And confrontation means being able to physically engage with them in the streets. Fascist organizations don't exactly persuade people with savvy intellectual arguments of racial superiority and eugenics. They persuade people with demonstrations of strength. Fascist ideology has always gone hand in hand with the might of the fist, the club, and/or the gun. Nazis use large demonstrations such as this one to give their followers a feeling of power and control, a feeling of military-like strength. Acts of violence against their enemies often follow these demonstrations. For this reason alone we should oppose these fascist demonstrations as a tool of recruitment and empowerment. When the fascists feel strong and safe, they become emboldened. When they feel emboldened, violence ensues. When they are physically driven from the streets they lose their sense of power and become disenchanted with their organizations.

It also forms a real progressive base when we organize, confront and defeat reactionary organizations who pose both a political and a physical threat to leftists and other working class movements. And I mean ALL reactionary organizations! Rush Limbaugh and the Republican circus must be confronted too. Remember, not all Nazis have shorn scalps!

[Jimmie Higgins]

All this free-speech crap is an illusion. One the basis of perserving free-speech alone you would have pleanty of reasons to oppose fascism; there are no protests, strikes, radicals, minoreties or freedoms of speech in NAZI germany.

Free-speech for nazis? You don't need to try that hard to win moral highground against fascists. What's moral is defending the rights of workers and minoreties and unions against armed reactionaries. The nazis arn't out there reading poetry about how much the love being straight white prodestants or even having a teach-in about whiteness they are out there to march and intimidate certain groups of workers!

Right to free speech? Does this trump the right to walk around your town without seeing an argry mob calling for the restrictions of your rights? Does this trum the right to not have a cross or racial epitaths burned in front of your house?

I'm glad you believe in rights to free-speech, now excercise them and organize a rally to confront the nazis when they march in your town and say: "You're not welcome here; There's more of us than ther is of you; get out now or we'll force you out!".

[Ownthink]

Remember, in America, you cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater if there isn't one. There is no such thing as "Freedom of Speech".

[Xvall]

I'm totally against the NAZI Movement and anything they do, but we cannot take away one group's rights because of what they believe.

Sure we can. It's easy. Ownthink had the right idea. If they're dead you don't have to worry about taking away any of their rights.


Kill them? I don't think that would solve anything.

Sure it would. They can't bother us much when they're dead.


I mean, there would just be more nazis then. Then they get a fucking reason to do what the fuck they are doing.

Oh, you'd be surprised how quickly they'll supress their beliefs when they realize that publicly gathering outside of ghettos/mosques/synagouges/etc. will result in a hailstorm of lead. If they take up arms then it's all the easier to recognize and strategically confront them. They seem to be fond advocates of some kind of "war" so it's only appropriate that we let them "have it", so to speak.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Killing Nazis? Not necissary at this point as long as we continue to confront them and don't let them build confidence or numbers. They can keep having their marches (with police escort) and we can continue to hold counter-protests where we outnumber them 3 to 1. Having the police protect them also helps our cause and exposes the racism of the governmnt and the police which will protect NAZI rights to try and intimidate workers, while scapgoating minoreties... it shows people which side the pigs are really on!

[Xvall]

This is true. In general, though, if someone were to theoretically brandish an assault rifle and go on some sort of fascist-killing spree, I would not have a problem with it at all, assuming that the conflic did not spill into other sectors.

[deak]

ok... violence and crap aside... you all are missing an important part of the article:



About 20 members from both the International Socialists Organization and One People's Project showed up,

OK, so this is the group that claims they are the official voice of the American Nazi Party, I mean NATIONALLY, and only 20 losery people show up. And their leader is a freaking nerdy tool that probably couldn't EVER fight for anything, well I'm probably gonna say that they pretty much aren't really a threat to us at all. Think about how many people show up all over the country for anti-war protests and the such. SHIT, in Cincinnati before I moved probably 600 people showed up to protest Bush, and Cincinnati is freakin' fascist city. I'm sorry, but the racists that are actually dangerous are the ones that don't concider themselves racist. These types are all over this country and pretty much none of them like or support the Nazis. Pretty much everyone thinks they are almost as stupid as the imbred KKK. If you look at some of their main sites such as StormFront and things, they're membership is like 4,000, and by the hudge showing of these fulls (all 20) pretty much all their members are too scared to say anything unless it's online with a fake name. There's more people on this forum and this is a RADICAL site and the majority of us would actually fight for our beliefs. These guys are a freaking joke. Bill White in another article I read refused to tell the reporters how many people were in the movement. Why? Because we would all laugh our asses off when we found out how small they are. Next time they come to a city near me, I'm going to collect my friends and go out and laugh at the 12 dumbasses that show up at their "NATIONAL CONFERENCE." That's the response they deserve. They need to know that they are over, and that NO ONE FEARS THEM. They feed off the fear and hate. They are angry stupid kids (or if they're adults they have the mentality of a kid) that want to vent their hatred for the world and be apart of something as full of hatred as themselves. Fuck these guys. They are as obsolete as my last computer. They need to be exposed as the moronic jokes that they are and we should NOT give them the power to insight hatred and fear. That's why they use the swastica, because they know it is a symbol that insights fear even when it's wielded by a bunch of people that if you saw on the streets without their uniforms you would recognize them as the little children, terrified of the world around them, that they are. They are nothing and give them the only credit they deserve.

[Palmares]

Just to bring some crustpunk to the fore:

AUS ROTTEN

"Fuck Nazi Sympathy"

Don't respect something that has no respect
don't sympathize with something that has no sympathy
don't understand something that has no understanding
Don't give them their freedom, because they're not going to give you yours
Fuck nazi sympathy
Don't give them their freedom, because they're not going to give you yours

[Sabocat]

About 20 members from both the International Socialists Organization and One People's Project showed up,



OK, so this is the group that claims they are the official voice of the American Nazi Party, I mean NATIONALLY, and only 20 losery people show up.

The ISO and the One People's Project are leftist Socialist groups. NOT Nazi's.

[Martin Blank]

For the sake of discussion, I would like to offer these two quotes from Hal Draper, a self-described socialist from the middle of the 20th century. I have heard these quotes more than once from comrades who reject the "no free speech for fascists" position.


"Most radical thinking had been set in a mold shaped by an image of what had happened in the Germany of the Weimar republic: 'See, Weimar Germany let the Nazis enjoy the benefits of free speech and democratic rights and look what happened! The lesson is that a virile democracy has to crack down on totalitarians before they become a clear and present danger, not afterward when it is too late.'

"The yellow liberals made liberal use of this mind-set and of this historical model, aiming it at the 'Communist menace'; and the Cold War witchhunt deepened from the late forties to the middle fifties. All this was not the invention of Joe McCarthy; McCarthyism merely took advantage of it.

"...the above-mentioned historical analogy with the Nazis in Weimar Germany ... is wholly false. It is simply not true that the truly scandalous behavior of the courts in Weimar Germany revolved around 'free speech for Nazis' cases. The judges of this very democratic republic were letting Nazi thugs go scotfree even in cases where they had been caught redhanded in murder, assault, beatings of Jews and radicals, breaking up of trade union headquarters, and similar actions. Action, not speech. If the Nazi movement had confined itself to speeches (including fascist speeches), it would never have been the danger it was. No rights to free speech had to be curtailed by a millimeter in order to have an abundance of grounds for rounding up the entire Nazi leadership years before they became even a clear and present danger. And this was not an accidental fact but inherent in the nature of the fascist movement as such: this movement never made the slightest pretext of depending on persuasion or education for power. The argument that 'history tells us' that fascists have to be thrown in the pokey as soon as they express any opinions considered fascist this argument is a phoney. In fact, just as phoney as the analogous argument of the witchhunters that the expression of Communist views must be met with policemen’s clubs lest 'democracy itself' be endangered. ...

"At this point in the analysis, we may be told, by some sophisticated radicals who have heard of different kinds of states: 'Hold on! What state are you talking about? Their state or ours?' if the objector styles himself a Marxist, he will say: 'Are you talking about a bourgeois state or a socialist state?' or its equivalent in current New Left jargon.

"There is indeed an opinion, held implicitly or explicitly, which goes like this: As long as we (the good guys) are not in power, we demand free speech and other such liberties and we deserve them, because we are right. But wait till we get power: we are not going to be so foolish as to let you, who are wrong, make trouble and corrupt the People ...

"This is not a caricature. It has been put into print by Herbert Marcuse (though not by many other sane people); I have heard it, without searching too hard, from many a young would-be radical; and of course anyone who is not naive knows that it is the unwritten program of any of the Communist Parties.

"This is a view very proper to an intelligentsia aspiring to a new ruling-class dictatorship of their own; but it is alien to revolutionary Marxism. Here is a proposition: There can be no contradiction, no gulf in principle, between what we demand of this existing state, and what we propose for the society we want to replace it, a free society.

"Naturally, circumstances alter cases, but since this generality applies on both sides, it cancels out and does not affect the proposition. You can legitimately consider the proposition from a moral standpoint that is, as a moral imperative but here I am interested not in moralizing but in political analysis. Why this proposition?

"First of all: what we demand of this state now does constitute our real program. Secondly: the kind of movement we build now, on a certain basis, will determine our new society, not good intentions. One can, of course, build a movement on the basis of social demagogy, massive hypocrisy, concealment of real intentions as the fascists did, as the Stalinists do but such a movement is fitted only to install a new despotism. No movement that really aims at a free society can proceed along these lines."

Miles

[tiger]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 09:16 AM

About 20 members from both the International Socialists Organization and One People's Project showed up,



OK, so this is the group that claims they are the official voice of the American Nazi Party, I mean NATIONALLY, and only 20 losery people show up.

The ISO and the One People's Project are leftist Socialist groups. NOT Nazi's.
Go to The one People's prjoct webstie, it looks like they are nazis... :huh:

[Sabocat]

One People's Project (http://www.onepeoplesproject.com/)


One People’s Project is a anti-racist organization that investigates and reports on groups and individuals on the right, most notably the racist right. We are a small organization whose primary focus is to disseminate information.

I don't know where you are getting the notion that they are Nazi's. Maybe not socialist/communists, but certainly anti-fash, anti-racist.

[deak]

dow... I admit a mistake when I do it.... for some reason I read that wrong... maybe it's because the nazi's use a similar name..... SO exactly how many Nazi's showed up... the webpage of Mr. White(y) claims that they had 40 nazi's and 30-40 more that wanted to come but couldn't because of the police, or some shit like that (it's pretty hard to read that shit so I tried to scan it). If you look at their racist music video of the event it looks more like 20 at the most. Anyways, I'm sorry about the mistyping HOWEVER the sentiment of what I said is still perfectly valid. They are a bunch of powerless losers who need not be feared at all and we fall into their hands when we take them seriously. Now, if they actually began to get support and become militant and not a bunch of pussies that hide behind cops because they know they're out numbered by basically the rest of the planet, then we might need to start thinking of them as anything more than pissed off clowns.

[tiger]

Originally posted by Ownthink+Oct 17 2005, 07:10 PM--> (Ownthink @ Oct 17 2005, 07:10 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 12:15 AM

[email protected] 16 2005, 08:00 PM
I'm totally against the NAZI Movement and anything they do, but we cannot take away one group's rights because of what they believe. If this were true, then communist would never be able to hold protest, neither would Anti-War protestors. If anything, massive government regualtions should have been put on the event, such as what the governement did to the KKK In NYC ( they said the only way the could hold the protest is if they didn't wear their hoods, and guess what, almost no one came to it).
If we kill them all we don't have to worry about their "free speech".
Kill them? I don't think that would solve anything. I mean, there would just be more nazis then. Then they get a fucking reason to do what the fuck they are doing.

However, if that is the only thing that works, then I am not against it.
We could have the most ironic of sutuations and mass kill Nazis?

I'm just throwing things out there! :lol: [/b]
Same here :blush: