Redistributing the Wealth Equally

[drain.you]

I have been discussing with my politics teacher if it is possible to start a factory or something along the lines, any business really which will allow equal pay for cleaners up to managers. And apparently theres organisations currently going which work on this principle, most notably the Mondragón Cooperative Corporation which was started in Spain over forty years ago. >Wikipedia Entry for this - Click Me< (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondrag%C3%B3n_Cooperative_Corporation)
I have no real direction in life, and not intending on going to university after I complete my final year of college next September and I considering how I could set up a business which incorperates communist ideals. My politics teacher seems to think that it is totally possible despite living in a capitalist state and that I would not be throwing myself into a life of debt unless the company does not succeed.
Any ideas on how much money would be needed to set up a business? And how does one go about this? I think I would be needing some means of production too, wouldn&#39;t that cost thousands?

[Xian]

You should start a non-profit organization. That is what a Communist business would have to be. Because in a business you would be selling shit and playing the capitalist game, which could lead to greed and then you pretend that you deserve more than the lowest worker.

~peace~

[Colombia]

You seem young and probable inexperienced in the working field. I would advise you to stay in the game for some time before actually starting your own business. If you persist, then at least work with a partner. As for how much money it costs to start, it just depends. What type of business do you want to get into?

[drain.you]

I dunno what kind of business. I don&#39;t see how I could have a non-profit organisation, thats not redistrubuting the wealth and I wouldnt be able to afford to run one. I think having a business, perhaps factory based put into a poor working class area and having it, so that everyone earns the same amount of money according to the amount of time they work and work they do, could quite benefit these areas. Maybe thats not great communist thinking, but it would be equalling out the economy in poor areas and such. I dunno. Just an idea wandering around in my head.
I would love to have an education institution, a college or something that teaches marxism and focuses on communist history and such but I think thats too farfetched for someone like me to achieve. I dunno. I&#39;ll just see where life takes me lol.

[barret]

The only thing I can think of would be to provide services. Everything from running a website that earns money via advertising, to mowing lawns. Infact most landscapers run on a basis where everyone makes equal amounts of money. I don&#39;t think you would be able to run a large business this way, but smaller organisations could work.

[Zingu]

There is no such thing as a Communist "buisness". Ulimately, they are still being exploited.

[KC]

There is no such thing as a Communist "buisness". Ulimately, they are still being exploited.

Yes. As long as a business is making a profit, they are taking money that the workers are entitled to, thereby fucking the workers over.

[barret]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 09:31 PM
There is no such thing as a Communist "buisness". Ulimately, they are still being exploited.
I would have to disagree. It really depends on what your definition of a business really is. If your definition of business is " a group that produces products and or services and sells them for profit" then thats no way to be considered &#39;communist&#39; at all. If you considered a business to be a group which produces and or services, on the other hand, not all would be considered capitlaist. For instance, the Red Cross would be considered a business in the definition, saying that they produce goods and services to the people, and yet they don&#39;t exploit people for profit.

[drain.you]

How can a communist business not exist? When we reach communism do you just stop producing things and providing services? lol.
Besides, I am querying about how to set up a business where people are payed the worth of their labour, ie, the amount of labour put in equals the amount of money coming out. There would be no exploitation this way, everyone would get higher wages and the only money that wouldn&#39;t go to the workers would be the money paying for the factory, raw resources, electricity and such.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 01:31 AM
There is no such thing as a Communist "buisness". Ulimately, they are still being exploited.
A cooperative is basically petty-bourgoise business organized in a collective way. You could say a "Mom and pop" store is "communist business" if it is owned by the Mom and the pop and they share the labor and profits qeually.

If it is sucessful, it might be a more pleasant option for the induvidual than being a regular worker but it does nothing to challednge the whole system. And as Zingu said, it&#39;s definately not "communist", it&#39;s just a more equal arrangement within capitalism.

[KC]

I would have to disagree. It really depends on what your definition of a business really is. If your definition of business is " a group that produces products and or services and sells them for profit" then thats no way to be considered &#39;communist&#39; at all. If you considered a business to be a group which produces and or services, on the other hand, not all would be considered capitlaist. For instance, the Red Cross would be considered a business in the definition, saying that they produce goods and services to the people, and yet they don&#39;t exploit people for profit.

Isn&#39;t Red Cross non-profit?


How can a communist business not exist? When we reach communism do you just stop producing things and providing services?

No, but they will not be businesses in the capitalist sense of the word.



Besides, I am querying about how to set up a business where people are payed the worth of their labour, ie, the amount of labour put in equals the amount of money coming out. There would be no exploitation this way, everyone would get higher wages and the only money that wouldn&#39;t go to the workers would be the money paying for the factory, raw resources, electricity and such.

If you want it to be communist, all profits must go to the workers. As long as you&#39;re saving money, even to just put towards the business (how are you going to live?), you are taking money that the workers are entitled to. You are still exploiting the workers. If you want to set up a communist business like that, then you&#39;d have to give them all of the profit and ask them to contribute to the company. Obviously, we know how that&#39;ll go over. :rolleyes:



A cooperative is basically petty-bourgoise business organized in a collective way. You could say a "Mom and pop" store is "communist business" if it is owned by the Mom and the pop and they share the labor and profits qeually.

Mom and pop stores are petty-bourgeois, not communist.

[Jimmie Higgins]

"Mom and pop stores are petty-bourgeois, not communist." Yeah, that was my point. An arrangement where all the workers are also owners is like a "mom&pop" so it is not communism. Sorry if it wasn&#39;t clear.

[KC]

Oh, alright. I thought you were saying that mom and pop stores were communist.

[drain.you]

How would you define what is business in communism then?

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 06:03 AM

There is no such thing as a Communist "buisness". Ulimately, they are still being exploited.

Yes. As long as a business is making a profit, they are taking money that the workers are entitled to, thereby fucking the workers over.
And if the company is owned by the workers and the profits are divided out among them? Factories will still run in a communist society and currency will still be exchanged. The difference of course being that the parasitic capitalists will be cut out and unable to siphon off the profits.

[Dimentio]

Actually, re-distribution does not imply that anyone actually would get worse. If we for a moment quits to see the world according to the views of Price Systems, and instead saw the capacity which we have, we could see that we easily could give everyone the same standard of life [in terms of food, clothing, etc] without having to increase any production.

Instead, if we had distributionism operational, we could actually decrease production.

There is an actual food production for 25 billion people on a global scale. Most of it is wasted.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 12:44 AM
I have been discussing with my politics teacher if it is possible to start a factory or something along the lines, any business really which will allow equal pay for cleaners up to managers. And apparently theres organisations currently going which work on this principle, most notably the Mondragón Cooperative Corporation which was started in Spain over forty years ago. >Wikipedia Entry for this - Click Me< (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondrag%C3%B3n_Cooperative_Corporation)
I have no real direction in life, and not intending on going to university after I complete my final year of college next September and I considering how I could set up a business which incorperates communist ideals. My politics teacher seems to think that it is totally possible despite living in a capitalist state and that I would not be throwing myself into a life of debt unless the company does not succeed.
Any ideas on how much money would be needed to set up a business? And how does one go about this? I think I would be needing some means of production too, wouldn&#39;t that cost thousands?
where i work cleaners get almost the same as managers [maybe like 40c less an hour or something, whereas i get &#036;15 less an hour :P]

[Zingu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 07:45 PM
I would have to disagree. It really depends on what your definition of a business really is. If your definition of business is " a group that produces products and or services and sells them for profit" then thats no way to be considered &#39;communist&#39; at all. If you considered a business to be a group which produces and or services, on the other hand, not all would be considered capitlaist. For instance, the Red Cross would be considered a business in the definition, saying that they produce goods and services to the people, and yet they don&#39;t exploit people for profit.
As long as you work for money, or whatever the means of substience it is, it is exploitation, not matter how "fair" it is.

[KC]

How would you define what is business in communism then?

Production of use-values for consumption by society.