Victims of Communism Memorial

[Capitalist Lawyer]

If people want to raise money for a monument that's their business. Money would be better spent educating poor countries on the horrors of communism.

Wealthy countries don't over throw their governments in favor of communism, poor countries do. In putting that monument in DC it serves little more than a tourist trap.

But this is a good idea, I just wish I thought of it earlier.

(Now bring on the typical communist cliches.)


WASHINGTON - Officials gave initial approval Thursday to a memorial for victims of communist regimes that would be located within sight of one of the icons of democracy — the Capitol.

The 90-square-foot monument would be built on National Park Service land one block west of the Capitol. A central feature will be a bronze Goddess of Democracy statue similar to the papier-mache and Styrofoam statue erected by pro-democracy students in Beijing's Tiananmen Square during 1989 demonstrations.

The National Capital Planning Commission voted unanimously to give preliminary approval to the "Victims of Communism Memorial."

"Its location, with views of the U.S. Capitol, a world-renowned symbol of democracy, is an appropriate setting in which to remember the victims of tyranny," said John V. Cogbill, chairman of the federal agency that oversees planning in the District of Columbia and nearby Maryland and Virginia suburbs.

The memorial will honor an estimated 100 million people killed or tortured under communist rule.

"They include those who died in Stalinist purges, Mao Zedong's cultural revolution, or under the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia," said Lee Edwards, a fellow with the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank based in Washington.

Edwards has served as chairman of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which began lobbying for the project 12 years ago.

About 75 percent of the $600,000 needed to build and landscape the memorial already has been collected from donors with ties to Cuba, Hungary, Vietnam, Poland, and more than 35 other nations.

If final approval is granted in December, construction could begin next spring.


Link to Story (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051006/ap_on_...munism_memorial)

[workersunity]

there was another thread about this smart guy

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Sorry, I don't peruse through the entire site before I post a story. Once I see something of interest to both communists and capitalists, I post it immediately.

And if there is a thread about this already, I probably can't post in it since I'm a "restricted member" for some odd reason. Maybe if the powers that be can lift the restriction, then maybe we can avoid this double posting problem in the future.

[Amusing Scrotum]

If people want to raise money for a monument that's their business. Money would be better spent educating poor countries on the horrors of communism.


What a great insight into stopping Communism you provided. I think I'll give up trying to advance Communism now, been as there are people of your calibre opposing it with such brilliant suggestions as to how to prevent it.

That whole article could and probably will be ripped to shreds in minutes.


Wealthy countries don't over throw their governments in favor of communism, poor countries do. In putting that monument in DC it serves little more than a tourist trap.


It shows they fear Communism still, despite there being no base for it anymore. It shows that they realise Communism is coming and they are doing all they can to discredit it.

Though monuments like this are futile, as you cannot prevent the inevitable.


But this is a good idea, I just wish I thought of it earlier.


You think?

[Wanted Man]

Now bring on the typical communist cliches
I found that hilariously funny and hypocritical.


The memorial will honor an estimated 100 million people killed or tortured under communist rule.

"They include those who died in Stalinist purges, Mao Zedong's cultural revolution, or under the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia," said Lee Edwards, a fellow with the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank based in Washington.
Hahahaha, so we've really gotten to the point of commemmorating non-existent people.


the U.S. Capitol, a world-renowned symbol of democracy
Again, something that has me rolling over the floor.

[Freedom Works]

you cannot prevent the inevitable.

That we all go to live on other planets and rebel against "government" and become anarcho-capitalist?

[Amusing Scrotum]

That we all go to live on other planets and rebel against "government" and become anarcho-capitalist?

:lol:

I've heard you can get a great sun tan on Mars, maybe theres a business opportunity there. ;)

[fukuoka_yakuza]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 12 2005, 07:06 PM
Money would be better spent educating poor countries on the horrors of communism.


no they shouldnt. they should spend money on making those countries not poor. educating poor countries about how communism is "bad" is just stupid. i dont think a little starving kid is going to care at all about some guy who says, "continue to be capitalist! dont become communist!" heck the smart ones will probably say something along the lines of "why? what has capitalism done for us lately?"

[Xvall]

I probably can't post in it since I'm a "restricted member" for some odd reason.

Yeah. Who would have thunk that someone going around by the title of "Capitalist Lawyer" whose chief conscern is that poor countries are "educated on the horrors of communism" would have action taken against them on a revolutionary left-wing message board whose inhabitants are strong advocates of class warfare.


Money would be better spent educating poor countries on the horrors of communism.

Because really, that's what starving ethipoeans truely desire. A good lecture on why Marx sucks!


Wealthy countries don't over throw their governments in favor of communism, poor countries do.

Won't disagree with that. You statement kind of implies, though, that poor countries have no choice but socialistic/communistic revolution in order to survive.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

When are they going to build the monument that commemorates the victims of capitalism?

[rachstev]

There is no such thing as a "victim of capitalism", only victims of murderers. Where there is capitalism there is choice. If one argues there is no choice under capitalism, that all should feel themselves free to do as they please at any given moment and avoid law, society is capitalsit countries would show you that is not the case.

[Hegemonicretribution]

CL I would appreciate a response to this if possible, but I know that it is unlikely: Why do this, I am guessing that because you show an interest in politics to some extent, that you are not a complete half-wit, why then come out with this. Sure there are "communists" here that will cite propoganda as truth, and are hypocritical in nature. There are also "capitalists" who do the same.

An intelligent, unbiased person would not quote Fox news for accurate and fair reporting of news stories, just as a Marxist could not use the USSR's figures for production to reflect life under state capitalism. To be a real Marxist is to be critical of all media, left and right. Not to simply take a prescribed doctrine as gospel.

No real Marxist could compare the unfair state of the world today to what Smith implied as capitalism (actually to play the semantics game Marx coined the term, but lets let that slide).

In just the same way The regimes that existed; those you call communism, cannot be communism. Communism as you have been told cannot exist with the presence of a state, so the wrong word has been used. It seems daft that this battle is simply over terminology, rather than political theory. A monument to oppressed people of regimes I can understand, but this attack (and that is what it is) is not relevant here. I assume you knew this when you were posting. Was this really a criticism of communism at all? Or just an attempt to provoke left wingers.

Provoking people often makes them behave irrationally. It is true of all of us. It just seems that you posted that article in order to get various answers, and then, as normally happens, the restricted members eat up the contradictions, and poorly reasons responses of angry people. This point scoring may seek to reinforce a view that the opposition is without intellect, but nothing is learnt. None of us have a monopoly on truth or righteousness, and by not attempting to learn you seek to increase your own ignorance. This is not an attack on the tactics on right-wingers only, it is true of the left also.

Sometimes a debate of real issues occurs, actually theory is compared, and communism/capitalism/other is debated. What Washington says is not communism, if you think it is then fair enough, but you are not a communist and do not know, no matter what you have been told or have heard. Criticise Marx's work by all means, a Marxist should also do this as well, but criticise your own position also.

Marx once said "I am not a Marxist." This was a response to some of what had become Marxism, it is essentially your choice which line you choose, but if you want to learn you know what to do. If you are so definite that you are right, and nobody else can be then fair enough, debate is not possible anyway. If this is the case why bother posting here? This again is true of both the left and the right. I do not know everything, far from it, but it is shocking the amount that the majority of each side knows about the otherside.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 09:40 PM
There is no such thing as a "victim of capitalism", only victims of murderers. Where there is capitalism there is choice. If one argues there is no choice under capitalism, that all should feel themselves free to do as they please at any given moment and avoid law, society is capitalsit countries would show you that is not the case.
So I guess the victims of slavery had a choice eh?

[Master Che]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 09:37 PM
When are they going to build the monument that commemorates the victims of capitalism?
Hell they'll need more then one moneument since the death toll probablly goes over 1 billion.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 07:45 PM
"They include those who died in Stalinist purges, Mao Zedong's cultural revolution, or under the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia,"
They are going to build a monument in honour of Trotsky, Bukharin, Tomsky, Piatakov and Rykov?

That's something to watch for... :lol:

[FleasTheLemur]

You know, I'm reminded of someone that proclaimed that the victims of capitalism doesn't need a monument. That ghettos, sweatshops, broken shacks, the Abu Grieh prison photos, starving African children and many more already served as a fine example. =P

[quincunx5]

no they shouldnt. they should spend money on making those countries not poor.


Ha Ha. The only way to make a country richer is to have it's own citizens create the wealth themselves with possible investment by foreign countries.

Wealth must be created, but poverty can be spread about throught redistribution of wealth.

Every foreign aid attempted by lefties has only exacerbated the problem.

Only hard work and entrepeneurial genius can lift the starving nations out of poverty. Communism opposes the latter entirely and bastardizes the former by ensuring that most of the time that can be spent working will be spend on discussing/voting on how things should be done. Without a complex division of labour, society will not be able to sustain it's entire population - leading of course to death and economic regression.

[enigma2517]

Without a complex division of labour, society will not be able to sustain it's entire population - leading of course to death and economic regression.


I'm listening. What proof do you have to offer?

[fukuoka_yakuza]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 07:37 PM
Ha Ha. The only way to make a country richer is to have it's own citizens create the wealth themselves with possible investment by foreign countries.

Wealth must be created, but poverty can be spread about throught redistribution of wealth.

Every foreign aid attempted by lefties has only exacerbated the problem.

Only hard work and entrepeneurial genius can lift the starving nations out of poverty. Communism opposes the latter entirely and bastardizes the former by ensuring that most of the time that can be spent working will be spend on discussing/voting on how things should be done. Without a complex division of labour, society will not be able to sustain it's entire population - leading of course to death and economic regression.

first of all, my point there was to say that education about the quote "Horrors of Communism" (cue out-of-tune pipe organ of doom) is a bunch of cash wasted. nobody in their right mind would spend cash on some stupid-ass cause like that.

second of all, im sure every single damn starving kid out on the streets has the patience to get his nation lifted out of poverty. are you under the impression that those people dont work hard already? and theyre still in the gutter.

and im sure that every starving nation can pull entrepeneurial genius out of their pockets. and if they cant, im sure that these decadent capitalist democracies will drop everything and help them out. oh, wait, i forgot: they have to go and depose dictators because they are ideologically opposed to conservative democracies and for no other reason at all, so they cant help the starving africans or the people in their own country who got their city flushed down the toilet.

oh, and we make sure that theres a lot of voting and crap on how things should be done? last time someone insulted communism, or what they thought was communism, they were talking about how we hate democracy with all our hearts and treat the word "vote" like a four letter word.

[Zingu]

Where the fuck are the Weathermen when you need them?

Time for them to blow up an other monument.

This is the biggest propaganda project that the Right wing smear machine ever put on.

[Deutsche Ideologie]

When capital and the ruling classes apologize for: colonialism, the 14 hour day, class privilege, the 7 day working week, children in coalmines, the opium wars, the massacre of the parts commune, slavery, the Spanish American war, the Boer war, starvation, arptheid, anti-union laws, the first world war, Flanders, trench warfare, mustard gas, aerial bombing, the soviet intervention, the Armenian genocide, chemical weapons, fascism, the great depression, hunger marches, Nazism, the Spanish civil war, militarism, asbestosis, radiation death, the massacre of Nanking, the second world war, Belsen, Dresden, Hiroshima, racism, the mafia, nuclear weapons, the Korean war, DDT, McCarthyism, production lines, blacklists, thalidomide, the rape of the third world, poverty, the arms race, plastic surgery, the electric chair, environmental degradation, the Vietnam war, the military suppression of Greece, India, Malaya, Indonesia, Chile, el Salvador, Nicaragua, panama, and turkey, the gulf war, trade in human body parts, malnutrition, Exxon Valdez, deforestation, organized crime, the heroine and cocaine trade, tuberculosis, the destruction of the ozone layer, cancer, exploitation of labour and the deaths of 50000000 communists and trade unionists in the 20th century alone, then-and only then-will I consider apologizing for the errors of socialism.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Since there is already a thread about this, and CL is choosing not to reply to the arguments put to his original post, I will close this unless he shows up in the next 22 hours or so.

--- G.

[Freedom Works]

When capital and the ruling classes apologize for:....

Capitalism is opposed to the destruction of property. The broken window fallacy is just that - a fallacy.

Much of the things you attribute to what you think is Capitalism is really the result of NOT having property rights - communism such as deforestation and the destruction of the ozone layer.

[Hiero]

I'm waiting for the memorial of thoose saved by Communism. The millions of people who gained access to hospitals, schools and employment. The millions saved from backward religious superstition and religious fundemnetalism. The millions of children who were taught how to read. The changing of a undeveloped countries into a industrial country in a short amount of years.

The numbers are soo distorted of how many died. Quit a few died in achieving liberation, and quit a few were killed in opposing liberation. The numbers may be high, too high, but most of thoose who died were justified.

[Capitalist Lawyer]

If starving AIDs infected Ethiopians knew about the horrors of communism there would be no need to put money toward educating them on those horrors.

I've made no implications toward that in any of my posts. I stated poor countries overthrow their governments in favor of communism.

The problem with your typical "communist" (read: 18-22 high school/college student with no real career, home, or family - stop me if this sounds familiar) is that they know nothing about communism.

[Master Che]

If Ehiopians knew about the "horrors of communism" They'd revolt against their peice of shit goverment you chump.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 17 2005, 02:15 AM
The problem with your typical "communist" (read: 18-22 high school/college student with no real career, home, or family - stop me if this sounds familiar) is that they know nothing about communism.
Perhaps true.....but same to be said for capitalists, or nationalists, fucko most don't know anything about themselves or others. Hence my line of argument in my lengthier previous post, do you have an answer to my post, seen as how I specifically asked for you? ;)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 17 2005, 02:15 AM
The problem with your typical "communist" (read: 18-22 high school/college student with no real career, home, or family - stop me if this sounds familiar) is that they know nothing about communism.
Oh look, a baseless generalisation people! Let's all give this half-wit a round of applause!

[encephalon]

QUOTE (Capitalist Lawyer @ Oct 17 2005, 02:15 AM)
The problem with your typical "communist" (read: 18-22 high school/college student with no real career, home, or family - stop me if this sounds familiar) is that they know nothing about communism.

Oh look, a baseless generalisation people! Let's all give this half-wit a round of applause!


"18-22 high school/college student with no real career, home, or family"--Benjamin Franklin? Abe Lincoln?

[JKP]

Things that haven't existed could not have killed anyone. Stop pretending that you have some sort of morality on your side; because you don't.

Get over it.

[Freedom Works]

Things that haven't existed could not have killed anyone. Stop pretending that you have some sort of morality on your side; because you don't.
Cop out of the highest order. It can't exist because it always degenerates into what history has shown us.

[JKP]

Originally posted by Freedom [email protected] 17 2005, 10:19 PM

Things that haven't existed could not have killed anyone. Stop pretending that you have some sort of morality on your side; because you don't.
Cop out of the highest order. It can't exist because it always degenerates into what history has shown us.
Only for Leninism perhaps.

[Freedom Works]

No, it's because Communism REQUIRES everyone to be on the same page. That is why is will never work on the large scale.

[JKP]

What is that supposed to mean?

[Freedom Works]

That's why it always degenerates.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

FW, you're talking bullshit. Either explain yourself properly or you're getting a warning point.

[Freedom Works]

What are you talking about? I DID explain myself, it's the Commies who can't defend their points, they just try to shift blame.

[Axel1917]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 07:44 PM

It shows they fear Communism still, despite there being no base for it anymore. It shows that they realise Communism is coming and they are doing all they can to discredit it.

Though monuments like this are futile, as you cannot prevent the inevitable.

Exactly. There is a reason why the US keeps spending money on anti-communist slander and libel. It is coming, and collapse of a totalitarian caricature of socialism is not the end of history.

I read somewhere that 35 million people starve to death each year, i.e. a problem created by captialism. I love the hypocrisy of the capitalists on this aspect, given that their system kills more people by starvation alone in one year than Stalin killed in his reign of 29 years (I have read that many capitailist estimates are at around 28 million from Stalin). Of course, it is okay to kill millions if it is done in the name of capitalism! Hell, if Stalin was the head of a capitalist state, and he killed 28 million (this number may be a bit inflated due to Bourgeois sources using it, but we will use it for the sake of the argument, for we are using it against them anyway) opponents of capitalism, he would probabaly be depicted as the greatest person that ever lived in capitalist school textbooks!

[truthaddict11]

explain how capitalism causes starvation? especially when capitalist countries, like the United States, grow and supply most of the worlds food supply. and when under communist leaders, like Mao and Stalin, the people in those countries STARVED.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The 100 million number is factless and has been refuted numerous times. And even if 100 million did die under socialism, it could never compare with the number that die under capitalism. It doesn't even come close.

"371 treaties were made by the US government with Native Americans. The United States govenment violated 370 of those treaties, to date. Over 250 years, 160 million Native Americans have been killed by the US government."
- The White Book of Capitalism

[Hegemonicretribution]

Fuck trying to argue sense with any of the people here, it is obvious this place exists for skirmishes not debate, may as well be resigned to that.

Anyway to jump to the same level of pettiness everyone else is on:
Cop out of the highest order. It can't exist because it always degenerates into what history has shown us. Forgetting semantics, the same can be said for democracy.

How many of these one party democracies degenerated into totalitarian hell holes? All of them? Well thats a surprise seen as how that is how they started.

If that was an argument against democracy people would ridicule its shortcomings. If it was used against capitalism I (I can't speak for other members) would ridicule it, as would many of the restricted members. Why use arguments that are illogical, just because they suit your ends? Yes there is a time and a place, but if discussion and learning is to come of anything this is a very poor tack to take. If the real agenda; as I suspect, is just aggravation, that is fine but no victory or even progress can be claimed on either side.

[OleMarxco]

Meheheh, the interferer of interlopin' in da HIZZ-ouse ;)
Okay, enough bravada from me, let's get down to the topic.
This is about the Victim's of 'Communism'; And I respect that, and lament
their death unless they were responsible for it. Can't say I -MOURN- it,
as I didn't knew them personally, but I don't really like innocent's gettin'
spilled. But as Tyler Durden says; "To make an omelet...you might have to break some egg's." Then I mean the revolution coming from people - by people - and then head's will roll - and they WILL be burgerouise, So don't get me wrong; I don't stand by Stalin, at all. Nor this warning-points of Cappies for their lack of ability to seriously explain themselves...but I still think they can cut the generalization of us and grow some BALLS. Pussies can't even 'cuss with us 'cept usin' a *****-cat fight tecnique, stabbin' us and retreatin' - like it's a video game :rolleyes:

[Forward Union]

Wait, what does this monument have to do with communism!? What about a monument for the victims of capitalism? would it even be possible to build a monument that lived up to the tragedy that is capitalism?

[Red Leader]

In response to what truthaddict 11 said about america producing most of the worlds food supply: what the hell is in your weed? Most of the worlds food supply is grown in undeveloped countries by starving farmers who are working for the capitilist machine.

The lettuce in your big mac your eating is harvested in places where it is cheap to grow, where the workers are barely making a living, then shipped back to you for you to get ripped off.

Exactly like your brand new nikes, where little girls in vietnam are sewing them together, inhaling toxic chemicals and slaving over dangorous machinary and being payed ten cents an hour for you to pay eighty dollers for back at home.

Yeah, capitilism sure makes the world a nice place to live-maybe for the rich and selfish that is.

[Zingu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 05:31 PM
like the United States, grow and supply most of the worlds food supply.
:D

Reminds me how American companies are patenting seeds, so that poor 3rd world farmers can't regrow their crops, because it would be illegal!

Seriously, you were never a 'leftist', just an other dumbass.

[fukuoka_yakuza]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 05:31 PM
explain how capitalism causes starvation? especially when capitalist countries, like the United States, grow and supply most of the worlds food supply. and when under communist leaders, like Mao and Stalin, the people in those countries STARVED.
alright, while we're on russia and china, starving was nothing new to them. it was worse before mao in china, you stupid *****. while there were famines under mao, the days of kai-shek and the warlords were worse.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 04:31 AM
explain how capitalism causes starvation? especially when capitalist countries, like the United States, grow and supply most of the worlds food supply. and when under communist leaders, like Mao and Stalin, the people in those countries STARVED.
That is got to do with lack of industrial argiculture. Stalin had the greatest success and built the infrastructure to feed these people. Russia and China have a greater poulation, US was a setler nation so it could build as it goes. Russia and China had to use 5 year plans to build out of the feudal system which relied on yearly crops. If Russia had of turned capitalist it would not have had the big growth it had during Stalin's years and would of had smaller growth limited to foriegn investment.

On the other hand it is the US who places harsh sanctions on the poor people of the world and causes them to starve or denies them access to good quality medicines. Thousands starved in Iraq for instance. They even threaten to up sanctions on Ethiopia during Derg control when the Derg wanted to remove peoples from drought prone areas. The result was the Derg decided not to do this, in the end these people starved.

The US and other capitalist nations have a history of causing starvation when it could of been avioded. They do this to control markets and international politics.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 05:31 PM
explain how capitalism causes starvation?
It isn't profitable to give food to people who can't afford to pay for it. If there's full employment, wages start to rise which causes companies to stop hiring people which ends the full employment. So, barring government intervention and except in the occassional boom time there will always be a portion of the population that is dirt poor and involuntarily unemployed. That keeps wages down. As they don't have much money, they starve. As capitalism is a global system the starvation isn't necessarily evenly distributed around the world, rich regions usually have less starvation than poor regions, but somewhere in the world capitalism is causing starvation.

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 18 2005, 04:10 PM
: what the hell is in your weed?
i dont smoke weed ive seen it ruin loved ones lives

[colombiano]

What are you talking about? I DID explain myself, it's the Commies who can't defend their points, they just try to shift blame.

It is not about shifting blame. What moral ground do you think The US has to stand on? In actuality you don't nor do any defenders of Capitalism. IMO a smoke screen for atrocities commited by the Plutocratic Elite.

[workersunity]

Originally posted by Freedom [email protected] 16 2005, 08:04 PM

When capital and the ruling classes apologize for:....

Capitalism is opposed to the destruction of property. The broken window fallacy is just that - a fallacy.

Much of the things you attribute to what you think is Capitalism is really the result of NOT having property rights - communism such as deforestation and the destruction of the ozone layer.
are yoy actually saying that communism should be attributed to these crimes? You really need to evaluate your argument. Firstly communism hasnt been on this earth yet as the world isnt yet ready. given that alone it is impossible for those to be attributed to communism. communism seeks a sustainable environment, it is capitalism in which destroys the environment in the name of money, which is quite absurd, because apparently they dont realize that the environment is essential to human and all species survival. get your facts checked cappie

[Freedom Works]

Forgetting semantics, the same can be said for democracy.
Democracy is suck.


How many of these one party democracies degenerated into totalitarian hell holes? All of them? Well thats a surprise seen as how that is how they started.
Democracy is suck.


I read somewhere that 35 million people starve to death each year, i.e. a problem created by captialism.
Capitalism does not cause this problem, capitalism solves it. The places where freedom is oppressed is where this number is coming from.


On the other hand it is the US who places harsh sanctions on the poor people of the world and causes them to starve or denies them access to good quality medicines.
Not letting you have MY medicine or food is NOT causing you to starve. It might be a shitty thing to do, but I didn't cause the problem, so I am not responsible for providing the 'solution'.


The lettuce in your big mac your eating is harvested in places where it is cheap to grow, where the workers are barely making a living, then shipped back to you for you to get ripped off.
If that were true there would be a huge profit to be made from such activities. It's not, so there's not.


Exactly like your brand new nikes, where little girls in vietnam are sewing them together, inhaling toxic chemicals and slaving over dangorous machinary and being payed ten cents an hour for you to pay eighty dollers for back at home.
Good thing the little girls are now better off! Now they have more money so can increase their standard of living. Oh, never thought of that did you?


Yeah, capitilism sure makes the world a nice place to live-maybe for the rich and selfish that is.
Considering we are all rich and selfish, you're right.


The US and other capitalist nations have a history of causing starvation when it could of been avioded.
The US is not capitalist. Capitalism does not cause starvation.


"371 treaties were made by the US government with Native Americans. The United States govenment violated 370 of those treaties, to date. Over 250 years, 160 million Native Americans have been killed by the US government."
- The White Book of Capitalism
Yes, because the word 'Capitalism' is in the title, that must mean Imperialism == Capitalism.


Most of the worlds food supply is grown in undeveloped countries by starving farmers who are working for the capitilist machine.
Nope, it's the other way around.


It isn't profitable to give food to people who can't afford to pay for it.
It doesn't make sense to give people 'free' food. That will just make them dependent upon you. It is better to let them take control of their own lives, and live it the way they see fit. This, in the long term, will lead to a more prosperous and better society.


If there's full employment, wages start to rise which causes companies to stop hiring people which ends the full employment. So, barring government intervention and except in the occassional boom time there will always be a portion of the population that is dirt poor and involuntarily unemployed.
They are dirt poor not because of the companies, but because of the State interference you so highly praise. The State steals their wealth to provide 'free' services, but because it is a monopoly, and a State monopoly at that, it has barely any incentive to be efficient at ALL. This means that if there was no State, they would have their own money, and spend it how they see fit, which would lead to more prosperity in the long run. Responsibiliy leads to the creation of more wealth.


Reminds me how American companies are patenting seeds, so that poor 3rd world farmers can't regrow their crops, because it would be illegal!
Obviously no anarcho-capitalist would believe 'Intellectual Property' is legitimate.


capitalism is causing starvation
Businessmen don't cause starvation.
Capitalism doesn't cause starvation.
Reality causes starvation.


It is not about shifting blame.
Yes it is, you refuse to accept that large scale collectivism does not work.


are yoy actually saying that communism should be attributed to these crimes?
I am saying collectivism and the lack of property rights is what causes the problems.


communism seeks a sustainable environment
It can seek it all it wants; as long as things are held in common there will be a worse off environment.


it is capitalism in which destroys the environment in the name of money
Why don't you go lookup where the deforestation is occuring, check if it's the private land or "government" property. If it is on "government" property, you cannot call that Capitalism, as the land is not in private hands.

Get SOME facts, commie.

[Livetrueordie]

can't wait to vandalize it

[Hiero]

Not letting you have MY medicine or food is NOT causing you to starve. It might be a shitty thing to do, but I didn't cause the problem, so I am not responsible for providing the 'solution'.

What are you talking about?

Im not talking about you not giving enough, im talking about the Capitalist nations placing sanctions and controling the trade of foreign countries. This denies them from world markets, medicines, food and other things they can not produce.

[Led Zeppelin]

Yes, because the word 'Capitalism' is in the title, that must mean Imperialism == Capitalism.

Are you 11 years old?

Imperialism is the highest stage of Capitalism.

[Goatse]

Good thing the little girls are now better off! Now they have more money so can increase their standard of living. Oh, never thought of that did you?

Yeah, 10 cents is a lot better off, for several days of working.* Oh well, when they're queueing up to buy some bread at the end of the week, I'm sure they'll feel glad about having made some nice man who gives him her job $80.

*How long would it take to make a pair of trainers anyway?


Wait, what does this monument have to do with communism!? What about a monument for the victims of capitalism? would it even be possible to build a monument that lived up to the tragedy that is capitalism?

At least it would create some work, having to chisel in one hundred or so names per day. :rolleyes:

[Livetrueordie]

At least it would create some work, having to chisel in one hundred or so names per day NO, way more considering 2000 people die per hour of starvation... multiply that by 24 and thats 48000 that die each day because of capitalism. Mot to mention the thousands more from other effects of capitalism.it would be to difficult.

[Red Leader]

If that were true there would be a huge profit to be made from such activities. It's not, so there's not.

Profit has obviously been made, mcdonalds is a multibillion dollar corporation


Good thing the little girls are now better off! Now they have more money so can increase their standard of living. Oh, never thought of that did you?

how are children better off with barely any money to go home with? So thier increase in standerd of living would be from poor and starving to poor and slaving.


It doesn't make sense to give people 'free' food. That will just make them dependent upon you. It is better to let them take control of their own lives, and live it the way they see fit. This, in the long term, will lead to a more prosperous and better society.

The people shouldn't have to feel the need to be dependant on food. If someone gets laid off of his job so that the company can make more money by selling itself to another one or something, and now this person has no job for a good couple of months with no money to spend on food, how would they be "living the way they see fit"? Thier life was entirely run by the fact that they had a job and a few bucks. Maybe if busnisses ruled the world, we would have a prosporous economy in the eyes of the businesses, but we would sure as hell not have a propsporous society, because there would still be homelessness and poverty and people who try as hard as they can to make it by ni life, and are constintly being stepped on by the greedy, rich and powerfull.

[poetofrageX]

Originally posted by Freedom [email protected] 20 2005, 09:50 PM

Capitalism doesn't cause starvation.

Really? Well then explain why Ethiopia, a capitlaist nation (despite the efforts of brave revolutionaries {including my parents and all of their friends}), has millions of starving children lying in the streets. Starving children I have seen with my own eyes, that have kept me awake at night, and truly schooled me to the horrors of capitalism. Please explain how capitalism is not to blame for their deaths.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by poetofrageX+Oct 22 2005, 01:35 AM--> (poetofrageX @ Oct 22 2005, 01:35 AM)
Freedom [email protected] 20 2005, 09:50 PM

Capitalism doesn't cause starvation.

Really? Well then explain why Ethiopia, a capitlaist nation (despite the efforts of brave revolutionaries {including my parents and all of their friends}), has millions of starving children lying in the streets. Starving children I have seen with my own eyes, that have kept me awake at night, and truly schooled me to the horrors of capitalism. Please explain how capitalism is not to blame for their deaths. [/b]
You see; obviously when a group of people reach a level of sustainability in a region and then slowly die as a trend, even when they are struggling to survive; it must just happen without a cause. Nope, capitalism, as the system controlling the factors that influence food supply is completely blameless, la la la la la...

[Freedom Works]

Really? Well then explain why Ethiopia, a capitlaist nation (despite the efforts of brave revolutionaries {including my parents and all of their friends}), has millions of starving children lying in the streets. Starving children I have seen with my own eyes, that have kept me awake at night, and truly schooled me to the horrors of capitalism. Please explain how capitalism is not to blame for their deaths.


Originally posted by Wikipedia

Because of its degraded lands, poor cultivation practices, and frequent periods of drought, Ethiopia is chronically unable to feed its population and has to rely on massive food imports.

Industry, which is largely state-run, is mostly restricted to agricultural processing and the manufacture of consumer goods.

[Commie Rat]

FW your impleying that because the agriculture is state run that is why people are starving, you contridict your self


Because of its degraded lands, poor cultivation practices, and frequent periods of drought,

so the cappies are blaming commies for the weather now?

funny that as the largest capitalist nation (US)in the world is the lead produces of Co2 that cause climate change and drought

[Freedom Works]

so the cappies are blaming commies for the weather now?
Of course not, I'm saying you can't blame Capitalism for something Capitalism did not cause - reality.


funny that as the largest capitalist nation (US)in the world is the lead produces of Co2 that cause climate change and drought
The US is not Capitalist, it is mercantilist.

[Amusing Scrotum]

The US is not Capitalist, it is mercantilist.

So now its "Mercantilist," a few weeks ago it was "Statist," then it was "Socialist," now its Mercantilist." Does anyone else not find it funny how the American economic system can change so much over a short period of time?

[Freedom Works]

Mercantilism is a branch of Statism, just like Socialism is a branch of Statism.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Mercantilism is a branch of Statism, just like Socialism is a branch of Statism.

Surely though a country can't change its "branch" and therefore its economic direction in a matter of weeks.

[Freedom Works]

I never claimed the US was Socialist, I have claimed it is Statist, and I claimed it was Mercantilist. It's true, though. It's like claiming a square is a rectangle is true.

[Amusing Scrotum]

I never claimed the US was Socialist, I have claimed it is Statist, and I claimed it was Mercantilist. It's true, though. It's like claiming a square is a rectangle is true.



We have large populations of people who are poorly educated,

Caused by the socialist 'education' systems. Lack of competition means poor quality, for more money

Link (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=39380&st=50).

This is you describing the American education system.

You have also referred to the Police as Communist and on numerous occasions called America State Capitalist. It would be helpful if you made up your mind about what economic system America and the rest of the world has. It seems you change your mind on this every week.

[Freedom Works]

It seems you change your mind on this every week.
I was describing particular industries of the US, not the entire country.


You have also referred ... on numerous occasions called America State Capitalist.
Various industries are. There is no debating that.