North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, China, Laos

[JohnTheMarxist]

Hello,

Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, China, and North Korea are the five countries best known for socialism/communism today. Has anyone here been to any of these countries and if so what were your impressions?

[Orthodox Marxist]

Yep I have been to Cuba twice for a two week period Its a real eye opener I would highly recommend cuba to anyone I was in Holguin

[RedStarOverChina]

I go to China all the time and I'd been to Cuba once. But rarely am I "with the people", so to speak.

China was quite disapointing for me since I came to realize that the living standard of the proles did not change substantially---I have my reasons to believe that their living standard has gone down overall, as inflation caused prices to skyrocket.

What holds everything together over there are the following two elements
Proles place hope in their sons and daughters. Getting an good education (admission to universities) would be thier only chance of success, so parents are puting all their eggs in that basket.
And nationalism. People have hope for the future as China's economy booms. The proles take pride in what they think they are a part of. For example they take pride in the newly-built skyscrapers, yet they are not even allowed in.

If the government screws up 2 of the elements above, we'll be in for some deep shit.



Cuba is not heaven on earth either. The whole economic structure is facing challenge as tourist industry booms. A huge number of those who could speak English(especially teachers) quits they job and find jobs in the tourist industry.

I just hope Cuba doesnt lose all the socialist elements like China did.

But as for now, Cubans definately have a higher standard of living than the Chinese.

[Red Flag]

I have been to Viet Nam. The place has barely recovered from being bombed into the stoneage & they have given up socialism in deed if not in word.

[Scars]

I've been to China and it's definately not Socialist. It's back to being Capitalist and while things aren't as bad as they were prior to 1949, they're slipping backwards for your average working person. In addition to this you have to think about the peasants who really gained the most from the revolution. Now they're losing many of the benefits that they gained and in many parts of the country peasants are being forcably relocated to make way for new imperialist developments.

There are no examples of communist countries at the moment, and there never have been and as for Socialism Cuba is probably the closest thing you're gonna find, but as Redstaroverchina said, things aren't all that rosey there either.

[Red Flag]

Cuba is a socialist country, and the only one in existance. That is a great deal of the problem for the Cuban economy.

But, with that said, I just looked in the Britannica Almanac for 2005 (not a source that is typically friendly of communism), and according to it, the standard of living in Cuba is higher than the other four countries mentioned in this thread.

[Young Juche League]

I've never been to any socialist states, although I will visit the DPRK next year.

[RedAnarchist]

Why? It's an authoritarian, Stalinist prison state run by a weak man who uses a personality cult to impose his insanity onto his people.

[Scars]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 08:20 AM
Why? It's an authoritarian, Stalinist prison state run by a weak man who uses a personality cult to impose his insanity onto his people.
Look at his name. That's why.

[bolshevik butcher]

Norht Korea, mystifies me why anyone would wnat to go there.... Cuba certianly ahs elements of socialism. It's not reached socialism as sutch, but I think it's at least trying to get there, as is venezuela.

[ComradeBrad]

I went to Cuba and stayed on a university campus for a few weeks, like red star said, from an economic viewpoint, it's not the greatest (the cuban citizen made 11$ a month when i went there, although i do believe it was raised a little since i was there), but the viewpoint of EVERYBODY is that friendship is much more important than money. For example, we went grocery shopping and the university did not have enough money for bread dough, but one of the cuban delegation went in and talked to the baker for a while and we got it for free. When he came out, he said something along the lines of "I just made a new friend". There were not very many beggars either (with the exception of the havana market, but again that is because of the tourist industry). As for the comment about a lack of teachers, Cuba has a literacy rate of 96%, so there's no lack of teachers. And there's 5.3 doctors per 1000 cubans and the life expectancy is equal to that of the U.S. (76 years). Ergo, Cuba is a very socialist country and an excelent place to visit. I can also singlehandedly say that Cuba made me want to devote my life to other (probably Doctors without Borders), and, at the risk of me sounding like an employee of tourism, I would seriously recomend going.

[Rasta Sapian]

cambodia

[RedStarOverChina]

I didnt say they are running out of teachers. But the teachers are running away from their jobs.

On the surface things do look warm and all that---but the lack of resources is really plaguing the country. In the 90s, they had to receive aid from VIETNAM (LOL) to keep their schools running.

I gave away all 3 of my pens I brought with me, cause school children asked for them, saying that they can't go to school if they can't get hold of a pen/pencil.

By all means, I LOVE Cuba. But when you have to rely on aid from the Vietnamese, you know something isn't going right.

[chebol]

"In the 90s, they had to receive aid from VIETNAM (LOL) to keep their schools running."

source?

"I gave away all 3 of my pens I brought with me, cause school children asked for them, saying that they can't go to school if they can't get hold of a pen/pencil."

Bullshit! Sorry, but it is. Maybe they TOLD you that to get a free pen.

"By all means, I LOVE Cuba. But when you have to rely on aid from the Vietnamese, you know something isn't going right."

Yup. It's called the blockade. It's also called socialism. Vietnam also receives aid from Cuba. And Cuba receives aid from Venezuela. And venezuela receives aid from Cuba. Funny think, Internationalism, it just keeps on giving.

[More Fire for the People]

I'm planning to visit Laos and Vietnam eventually in my life. Perhaps I will one day visit Cuba and the DPRK if I have funds. Oh, and how can you praise Cuba and hate the DPRK? Cuba is very pro-DPRK and DPRK is very pro-Cuba. Che and Kim Il-sung shared many ideas.

[JohnTheMarxist]

I am not trying to attack you in any way but do you have any info on why we should support North Korea???? I have a hard time finding ANY info at all on this country. From what i gather it isn't a marxist nation, they follow Juche (I am not saying that ina negative way, just what I have seemed to find.)

[rioters bloc]

none. but i'm going to vietnam/laos next year [hopefully]

[JohnTheMarxist]

I am hoping to go to Cuba next year.

[RedStarOverChina]

"In the 90s, they had to receive aid from VIETNAM (LOL) to keep their schools running."

source?


I went to Cuba. In the 90s Vietnam supplied Cuban schools with papers which they completely RAN OUT. Thats why they have bookstores named after Hanoi all over Cuba.


"I gave away all 3 of my pens I brought with me, cause school children asked for them, saying that they can't go to school if they can't get hold of a pen/pencil."

Bullshit! Sorry, but it is. Maybe they TOLD you that to get a free pen.

What the fuck...When a 17 year old kid approaches you, going thro a great deal of trouble trying to overcome the language barrier to tell me that he needs a pen to go to school, would u trust him or would u say to him, "No, what the hell? U live in a Utopia. U dont need pens."

And would you say the same to three of them? :angry:
If u would, u are certainly a special kind of socialist.

[chebol]

Mate, I've been to Cuba too. Several of my close friends have lived there, studying, of all things, the education system. During the Special Period.

I KNOW that Cubans are NOT excluded from schooling "if they can't get hold of a pen/pencil".

Shortages aside, which I am not contesting, to imply that there is an exclusion on access to education based on access to stationery is ludicrous. There is, however, a shortage of (good) cheap pens, and has been a similar shortage of other materials. Yes. Due to the collapse of the soviet bloc and the tightening of the blockade.

And if you read the end of my previous post, you'll see that I am all in favour of Vietnam supporting Cuba when they need it- as they did in the height of the Special Period- just as Cuba supports, and supported, Vietnam, including during the war with the US.

I AM a special kind of socialist. I am one that doesn't take things at face value, but analyses them with reason and fact, instead of jumping to conclusions.

[RedStarOverChina]

Duh! of course they let u into the school if u dont have a pen. But what are u gonna do in there? Bite open a wound on ur finger and write with your blood?

[bolshevik butcher]

Wether cuba is pro north korea or not, to me north korea is lead by an opressive nation. The very notion of juche is opressive. One supreme workers leader, what a sensible idea, lets all submit to one supreme leader.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 13 2005, 10:08 AM
Wether cuba is pro north korea or not, to me north korea is lead by an opressive nation. The very notion of juche is opressive. One supreme workers leader, what a sensible idea, lets all submit to one supreme leader.
North Korea has no supreme leader, it doesn't even have a president.

[Urban Guerrilla]

Originally posted by Diego [email protected] 13 2005, 08:38 PM
North Korea has no supreme leader, it doesn't even have a president.
What do they have then as a leadership or representation? :che:

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by Urban Guerilla+Oct 13 2005, 03:04 PM--> (Urban Guerilla @ Oct 13 2005, 03:04 PM)
Diego [email protected] 13 2005, 08:38 PM
North Korea has no supreme leader, it doesn't even have a president.
What do they have then as a leadership or representation? :che: [/b]
Article 4, Chp. 1 of the DPRK's Constitution

The sovereignty of the DPRK resides in the workers, peasants, working intellectuals and all other working people.

The working people exercise power through their representative organs -- the Supreme People's Assembly and local people's assemblies at all levels.

The highest power is the Supreme People's Assembly
The SPA is composed of deputies elected on the principle of universal, equal and direct suffrage by secret ballot.

Articles 89, 90, Chp. 6


Article 89
The SPA is composed of deputies elected on the principle of universal, equal and direct suffrage by secret ballot.

Article 90
The SPA is elected for a term of five years.
A new election is held before the term expires according to the decision of the SPA Presidium.
The term is extended if an election is not held due to unavoidable circumstances.
.
In my opinion "The term is extended if an election is not held due to unavoidable circumstances." should be more clearly defined or removed from the constitution but generally this follows the Marxist line of popularly elected working class candidates.

[RedStarOverChina]

Originally posted by Diego Armando+Oct 13 2005, 03:38 PM--> (Diego Armando @ Oct 13 2005, 03:38 PM)
Clenched [email protected] 13 2005, 10:08 AM
Wether cuba is pro north korea or not, to me north korea is lead by an opressive nation. The very notion of juche is opressive. One supreme workers leader, what a sensible idea, lets all submit to one supreme leader.
North Korea has no supreme leader, it doesn't even have a president. [/b]
Somehow I heard of rumors stating that the far, far away kingdom is under the rule of a handsome prince by the name of Kim Jung Il.

His majesty Kim has several titles which include "Dear Leader", "General Secretary of the Party", AND the Defense Minister of DRPK.
Sounds quite supreme to me.