How would the revolution start?

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

Would it be a big planned event, or would the revolution start with small countrys then big ones?


P.S sorry for my noobish-ness im new to politics.

[novemba]

i suggest you search for similar topics...

BUT

the revolution in the US (or anywhere) will start when the workers realize that theyre getting fucked up the ass and its not getting better, and the only way to fix the system is to destroy it and start a new one.

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

That seems so easy just tell everyone.... that there getting analy raped!

[JohnTheMarxist]

In the USA I dont think it would start as an expressly communist movement. We saw the beginning of a popular peoples movement back in the 60's-early 70's. I believe a progressive all peoples movement of Unionists, gay & lesbians, racial minorities, peace activists, environmentalists, the working poor, socialists/communists, liberals and petty capitalists would be the start of a broad movement which could breed socialism.

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

Well hurry up i wanna shoot some cappies!

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 03:46 AM
In the USA I dont think it would start as an expressly communist movement. We saw the beginning of a popular peoples movement back in the 60's-early 70's. I believe a progressive all peoples movement of Unionists, gay & lesbians, racial minorities, peace activists, environmentalists, the working poor, socialists/communists, liberals and petty capitalists would be the start of a broad movement which could breed socialism.
In the US, I don't think it would start here first. I think it's more likely that there might be a revolution in Latin America somewhere and this revolution will inspire US workers and the US government's inevitable hostile responce to a revolution in Latin America would cause even more polarization and could really catapult a worker's movement here if workers sympathetic to the revolution elsewhere protested in attempts to defend the revolution.

[JohnTheMarxist]

In the US, I don't think it would start here first. I think it's more likely that there might be a revolution in Latin America somewhere and this revolution will inspire US workers and the US government's inevitable hostile responce to a revolution in Latin America would cause even more polarization and could really catapult a worker's movement here if workers sympathetic to the revolution elsewhere protested in attempts to defend the revolution.



Good point as well. I thinkt he reason the US seldom invades socialist countries with it's own army is 1.) Because it never wins. the only two times we have done it (against North Korea, and Vietnam...we have lost).

2.) The ruling class fears it will breed a socialist movement in the USA of revolution sympathizers. Hence, they always train foreign death squads and foreign dictators to do their dirty work.

[Red Flag]

You forgot another loss, ie. Bay Of Pigs.

[enigma2517]

I think it would start first as social democratic revolutions like the one in Venezuela.

Then, the real deal (massive class conscious movement) would occur somewhere in Western Europe. It is the most secular part of the world, as well as a collection of advanced capitalist countries with the highest amount of class consciousness already among the workers.

At the same time we'd probably see some kind smaller scale uprisings in the US and Eastern Europe, possibly Asia, etc. It would eventually snowball into something bigger. And then finally all of the third world countries would join in sooner or later.

How would it start exactly? I'm willing to bet a general strike. Very effective, and it beats taking the military and police forces head on. I think the actual revolution could be won with a relatively small amount of bloodshed.

Afterwards however, we would end up duking out a few last battles with hardcore reactionary forces.

I remain optimistic :)

[Red Flag]

The most likely scenaroi seems to be that the collapse of imperialism, brought about by the struggles of the most oppressed peoples, ie. those of the third world, will lead to the collapse of capitalism.

Countries like the U.S. can't self-sustain for any significant amount of time.

[Bannockburn]

That is the thing, the revolution has already begin. However, its nothing like the traditional revolutions of the past, ie, big formed groups. Rather its going to be a multitude of singularity uniting under the common. We see it with G8 meetings, war protests. Multiple groups with multiple interests coming together under a common banner. The revolution has started my friend – you just need to recognize it.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 11 2005, 07:18 AM
You forgot another loss, ie. Bay Of Pigs.
He said america using it's own army. The Bay of Pigs was a bunch of cuban exiles trained by the US government.

[Ownthink]

Good point as well. I thinkt he reason the US seldom invades socialist countries with it's own army is 1.) Because it never wins. the only two times we have done it (against North Korea, and Vietnam...we have lost).

That's becasue the yanks can't beat Revolutionary Spirit! People who are actually fighting for a Cause they believe in is EXTREMELY hard to crush. See: Vietnam


That is the thing, the revolution has already begin. However, its nothing like the traditional revolutions of the past, ie, big formed groups. Rather its going to be a multitude of singularity uniting under the common. We see it with G8 meetings, war protests. Multiple groups with multiple interests coming together under a common banner. The revolution has started my friend – you just need to recognize it.

Actually I am in total agreement with you.

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 05:07 PM
That is the thing, the revolution has already begin. However, its nothing like the traditional revolutions of the past, ie, big formed groups. Rather its going to be a multitude of singularity uniting under the common. We see it with G8 meetings, war protests. Multiple groups with multiple interests coming together under a common banner. The revolution has started my friend – you just need to recognize it.
so i could be shooting cappies any day now :)

[which doctor]

Originally posted by badsanta170+Oct 11 2005, 05:08 PM--> (badsanta170 @ Oct 11 2005, 05:08 PM)
[email protected] 11 2005, 05:07 PM
That is the thing, the revolution has already begin. However, its nothing like the traditional revolutions of the past, ie, big formed groups. Rather its going to be a multitude of singularity uniting under the common. We see it with G8 meetings, war protests. Multiple groups with multiple interests coming together under a common banner. The revolution has started my friend – you just need to recognize it.
so i could be shooting cappies any day now :) [/b]
Come over to my place and we can shoot some together. ;)

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood+Oct 11 2005, 07:29 PM--> (Fist of Blood @ Oct 11 2005, 07:29 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 05:08 PM

[email protected] 11 2005, 05:07 PM
That is the thing, the revolution has already begin. However, its nothing like the traditional revolutions of the past, ie, big formed groups. Rather its going to be a multitude of singularity uniting under the common. We see it with G8 meetings, war protests. Multiple groups with multiple interests coming together under a common banner. The revolution has started my friend – you just need to recognize it.
so i could be shooting cappies any day now :)
Come over to my place and we can shoot some together. ;) [/b]
Count me in! :lol:

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Ownthink+Oct 11 2005, 06:37 PM--> (Ownthink @ Oct 11 2005, 06:37 PM)
Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 11 2005, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 05:08 PM

[email protected] 11 2005, 05:07 PM
That is the thing, the revolution has already begin. However, its nothing like the traditional revolutions of the past, ie, big formed groups. Rather its going to be a multitude of singularity uniting under the common. We see it with G8 meetings, war protests. Multiple groups with multiple interests coming together under a common banner. The revolution has started my friend – you just need to recognize it.
so i could be shooting cappies any day now :)
Come over to my place and we can shoot some together. ;)
Count me in! :lol: [/b]
just a few more commies and we could take over a small town!

[Leif]

You've got one more. I think we have enough.

It's us against the (capitalist) world, we strike at dawn!

[which doctor]

If this happens to be my last post then you know that I will have died fighting cappies on the morning of 10/12/2005. Lets see what happens....I just hope you other guys don't wimp out. ;)

[Rawthentic]

wait a second. are u guys really gonna go and start shooting cappies? ur gonna die fighting like an idiot, whereareas u can at least come up with 15 or 20 people and start some real shit? use ur head bro. only time will bring about our popular revolution.

[rioters bloc]

um...

maybe i'm dumb

but i don't think they were serious :P ;)

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 06:02 AM
wait a second. are u guys really gonna go and start shooting cappies? ur gonna die fighting like an idiot, whereareas u can at least come up with 15 or 20 people and start some real shit? use ur head bro. only time will bring about our popular revolution.
"use ur head bro"

By spelling right and using proper grammer, we would take you alot more seroiusly :)

We probley could take a small town, get some more people from there :)

then go kill some more!!!111

[which doctor]

Anyways I wimped out and I'm too young to buy ammo for my dad's gun. I wasn't serious anyways. But 15-20 people isn't going to start some "real" shit on it's own. They might be able to take a [very] small town, but then the National Guard or FBI or whoever will problay come in and take us out.

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

Man i want the revolution to start right now...

[DefaultDiagnosis]

Alright, I'll tell you how the revolution will start:

The first step is organization - a small group, ten or twelve at most, travel in different directions , or to different small countries, staying in touch via cellphones, to rally support...all except one. That one person secures funds and other forms of support via sites and groups like this one. With those, he procures one or more plots of land inside the U.S., remote and uninhabited (there are plenty of them around) for use of grouping. Once sufficient support is gathered, the movement procures weapons and other supplies, either by way of domestic black market or foreign aide, and begins taking small towns, not, however, with bullets, merely with a SHOW of force and a statement of intent: Think of it, an army of 100-200 armed and uniformed people, walking into a small town and taking it over. All resistance would be eliminated: there are only 8-10 police in a small town, and other resistance offered by the townspeople would be relatively small and isolated. From there, you secure the town, set up a defense, gather more recruits and equipment as needed, and continue onwards in the same fashion, using WORDS rather than violence until violence is necessary. That way, you gather the support of the masses, because it is for the MASSES that you are fighting! After you take the first town, set up shop in a TV broadcast station, broadcast your message of PEACE TO THE PEOPLE, DEATH TO THE GOVERNMENT, encourage others to join the cause, and there will be open rebellion in other parts of the country.
It is my suggestion that this movement starts in the U.S., if people around the world see armed rebellion in the U.S., there will be armed rebellion in other parts of the capitalist world as well. Oh, and one more thing: This revolution will start in less than ten years, I guarantee it.

"Be patient through the coming Revolution, for there are hard times ahead, filled with death and war. Just remember, stumbling is not falling, and the only man who truly loses in life is the man who surrenders." Me

[Correa]

I can actually imagine this happening. Sounds feasable and all. I'm not sure about it occuring during the next 10 years, but I sure hope it does. I'll probably be.......

"walking down Rodeo with a shotgun these people ain't seen a brown skinned man since their grandparents bought one!"

-Rage Against the Machine

[novemba]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 08:55 AM
By spelling right and using proper grammer, we would take you alot more seroiusly :)

**grammar

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

Whoopise. still better then "ur" and "u" and "liek omfg"


Yeah but the 200 people who took a small town the goverment would come in and shoot everyone.

[DefaultDiagnosis]

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that the town they took was popluated by 1000 people (That is a very, very small town, by the way), and lets say that (worst case scenario) 75% of the townspeople fled for cappie country. That means that the People's army gets another 250 recruits.
The People's army then stations 1/4 of it's ORIGINAL force, say, 50 soldiers, in and around the town, and employs guerrilla warfare tactics to hold the town, while the main body, now of 400 soldiers, moves on to another town, and keeps moving in sporradic directions.
That is one possibility, another is this: After taking the town, the entire people's army disperses, dressed as civilians with no weaponry, and moves to another location, geographically separate from the first town they take. They travel in groups of two and three, by legitimate civilian means. One sect of the People's army transports all equipment via means of U-haul or Mac truck, or something along those lines, and the People's army takes another small town, soley for the purpose of recruiting, and not holding: to hold a town in this country by a show of arms is nigh impossible.
Once the people's army gets big enough to get attention on an international basis, say, 5,000 people strong, we can make a big move, or seek asylum in Mexico and wage our war against capitalism from a place of security, where we can grow and plan.

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

Sounds like a fucking good plan.

[JKP]

Really, you need the support of the people before anything like this could ever work. Right now, most americans would support you, in fact, they would fight against you. That's the material reality, and material reality always prevails.

[novemba]

[email protected] newbs.

hey kiddies i suggest you read more.

[DefaultDiagnosis]

I absolutely agree that you need the support of the people, without the people, the revolution cannot happen. I also agree that people would fight us. However, there's one crucial fact that you're overlooking: The message. The most important part of the revolution is the ideal behind it. Understand that the revolution is not necessarily open rebellion. The revolution is merely the people rising up and bucking off the leech-like capitalist system that keeps them down. Today, if I started an open rebellion, you're right: I would probably not win because unfortunately most people are still comfortable in the capitalist system. It has come to my attention, however, that people are slowly realizing that capitalism is not "freedom". I find that, when I talk to people about freedom today, the concept of the idea has changed for many people. Naturally, these are people who are feeling economic strain, as most of us are these days.
Now, I'm not saying that the time for the revolution is now. All I'm saying is that, when the time is right, the revolution will happen. When that time comes, I will have a plan, and I will have a posse, and I plan on kicking some serious capitalist ass.

p.s.- "Novemba"- If that is all you can contribute, a mockery, you might as well not say anything at all, because you obviously aren't mature enough to take the future seriously. See, I plan on reading more, I love to read, I do it on a daily basis. I suggest YOU grow up learn some respect for what YOU don't know rather than what other people appear to be ignorant of: it makes for a much richer life, trust me, I know.

[Tekun]

Latin America or Africa is closer to revolution due to the poverty

If u guys really wanna start shootin some cappies, join me and we'll all go down to Central America and join one of the many revolutionary groups

If the US invaded Cuba or Venezuela, would u guys join me in defending the ppl of Cuba or Venezuela from the imperialists? Think about that...

[tiger]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 10:25 AM
Latin America or Africa is closer to revolution due to the poverty

If u guys really wanna start shootin some cappies, join me and we'll all go down to Central America and join one of the many revolutionary groups

If the US invaded Cuba or Venezuela, would u guys join me in defending the ppl of Cuba or Venezuela from the imperialists? Think about that...
With the support of the people we can achive many things.

But if anything like this is suppose to happen, it will require alot of planning, alot of guys who truly belive in the cause and alot of fucking guns... And perhaps somebody who knows how to build bombs. (Read Totse.com)

However, eiter you do it like this, or the long and perhaps the most peacefull way, and that is to start protesting like hell. Alot of people is, anyway, needed.

:ph34r:

[Gnosis]

You want REVOLUTION?

You've got it already, see it, there it is.

It will never start, as it has never begun but it already is.

And it will never end as it never began in the first place.

Transformation is the universe, and the speed of light is constant.

What does it mean?

What does it mean to you?

Be the way and know the way and no one can stop you unless you stop yourself.

Nothing is ever created or destroyed and that goes for everything ever.

Transform yourself and transform the universe as you see it.

And then everything around you exists in relation to you, and in being so they are changed by you, altered by the fact that you are not what you once were in relation to them.

Yoiu exist in relation to yourself which is the universe.

KNOW THAT.

BE AT PEACE.

LOVE YOURSELF AND ALL OF YOURSELF WHICH IS THE UNIVERSE.

TRUST IN YOURSELF.

If the person you are today is not the person you were yesterday, you are making progress and the universe will keep up.

Everything will change if you change.

I cannot completely communicate my ideas in the way I would like.

I am working on it.

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 09:38 AM
Lets say, for the sake of argument, that the town they took was popluated by 1000 people (That is a very, very small town, by the way), and lets say that (worst case scenario) 75% of the townspeople fled for cappie country. That means that the People's army gets another 250 recruits.
The People's army then stations 1/4 of it's ORIGINAL force, say, 50 soldiers, in and around the town, and employs guerrilla warfare tactics to hold the town, while the main body, now of 400 soldiers, moves on to another town, and keeps moving in sporradic directions.
That is one possibility, another is this: After taking the town, the entire people's army disperses, dressed as civilians with no weaponry, and moves to another location, geographically separate from the first town they take. They travel in groups of two and three, by legitimate civilian means. One sect of the People's army transports all equipment via means of U-haul or Mac truck, or something along those lines, and the People's army takes another small town, soley for the purpose of recruiting, and not holding: to hold a town in this country by a show of arms is nigh impossible.
Once the people's army gets big enough to get attention on an international basis, say, 5,000 people strong, we can make a big move, or seek asylum in Mexico and wage our war against capitalism from a place of security, where we can grow and plan.
sounds like a nice plan. where do u live? dont tell me exactly where, just tell me the city and state or region and state because of possible Nazis that could be monitoring. i would be interested in helping, with limitations of course as i am only 15 yrs old. or u could email me. thanks comrade for the good insight of our revolution.

[which doctor]

Don't worry about your ages now because a successful revolution will happen a few years in the future when you are old enough to actually do something.

[wet blanket]

Why wait for everyone else? Start the revolution with yourself.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by wet [email protected] 21 2005, 09:35 PM
Why wait for everyone else? Start the revolution with yourself.
Without support you will fail miserably.

And it probaly would be easier if the country was thrown into chaos with people losing there jobs and such because most likely people people won't leave their jobs to join the revolution, but if they have no jobs and they are weary of the future then something might happen. Maybe when oil starts becoming very scarce will be a good time.

[Tekun]

Haiti ppl, Haiti is where its gonna be
In a couple of years (or even months), we'll be gathering comrades to fight in Haiti

But in case of a revolution:
Were gonna have to get help and funds from other govs commited to the revolution
Plenty of guns, ammo, jeeps, grenades, and mortars - med supplies and vessels

One of the first actions would be to infiltrate the masses or public, inform them, and gather their support

One of the first armed confrontations would be to storm or clean out one of the many military garrisons or forts around the island, in order to steal their supplies
Through sabotage or intelligence

Just an idea ;)

[Militant]

This is a difficult question, since no man knows the future. But I think the only way a communist revolution could occur is with the removal of the American government's ability to project force across the world. Oddly enough I think it is the increasing vocal christian minority in America that will accomplish this for us.

Any attempt by theists to augment the rule of law with religious law will spark controversy. It would only be a matter of time until a cop/member of the religious police gets shot by a secularist (like a communist or libertarian), which would cause a whole slew of people to arm or flee (and these people would be much more educated compared to the average fanatic). This might lead to a guerilla war between various military and paramilitary factions, leading to the degradation of American power.

I think a large number of foreigners would form an "International Brigade" like organization to aid their secularist brethren in America. This would serve multiple purposes: training of fighters, the creation of an international network, and experience. Victory or defeat in America is secondary to the purpose of stopping the one nation that has hampered every socialist experiment in the twentieth century.

Ideally, revolution would begin once America began to destroy itself from the inside.

[PRC-UTE]

Since all the arguments here are discussing how a revolution would start in the usa (as usual :lol: ), read the communist league's stuff. They're producing the most thoughful work on this subject. If you have acrobat you can download their stuff now and read it. www.communistleague.org

Their journal The Workers Republic goes into this quite a bit - how the USA is becoming a failed state that can't meet the needs of its own population (and they were discussing this before Katrina).

[Militant]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 06:24 PM
Since all the arguments here are discussing how a revolution would start in the usa (as usual :lol: ), read the communist league's stuff. They're producing the most thoughful work on this subject. If you have acrobat you can download their stuff now and read it. www.communistleague.org

Their journal The Workers Republic goes into this quite a bit - how the USA is becoming a failed state that can't meet the needs of its own population (and they were discussing this before Katrina).
Maybe because America is the perpetual speed bump on the road to revolution? American influence needs to be put aside if there is to be a real shot at communism.

Case in point, could you imagine the American to a revolution in Canada or Mexico?

[bcbm]

Once the people's army gets big enough to get attention on an international basis, say, 5,000 people strong, we can make a big move, or seek asylum in Mexico and wage our war against capitalism from a place of security, where we can grow and plan.

Given Mexico's current relationship with the US (not to mention it's history), I sincerely doubt they would offer asylum to 5,000 armed guerrillas.


If u guys really wanna start shootin some cappies, join me and we'll all go down to Central America and join one of the many revolutionary groups

As the Zapatistas say, we have our own struggles to fight here at home. Heading down and joining guerrillas certainly appeals to the romantic in me, but I have a hard time abandoning the people suffering right here and now.


And it probaly would be easier if the country was thrown into chaos with people losing there jobs and such because most likely people people won't leave their jobs to join the revolution, but if they have no jobs and they are weary of the future then something might happen. Maybe when oil starts becoming very scarce will be a good time.

People are losing their jobs left and right through deindustrialization. The neccessary anger and resentment are already present among much of the lower and middle class. What is needed is something to push the situation into insurrection and armed rebellion. I don't think anyone calling themselves an anarchist or communist and taking up arms could gather much support, but I think someone with a little more conspiratorial and, well, less honest approach could certainly win support for their struggle.

[Militant]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 02:41 AM
Alright, I'll tell you how the revolution will start:

The first step is organization - a small group, ten or twelve at most, travel in different directions , or to different small countries, staying in touch via cellphones, to rally support...all except one. That one person secures funds and other forms of support via sites and groups like this one. With those, he procures one or more plots of land inside the U.S., remote and uninhabited (there are plenty of them around) for use of grouping. Once sufficient support is gathered, the movement procures weapons and other supplies, either by way of domestic black market or foreign aide, and begins taking small towns, not, however, with bullets, merely with a SHOW of force and a statement of intent: Think of it, an army of 100-200 armed and uniformed people, walking into a small town and taking it over. All resistance would be eliminated: there are only 8-10 police in a small town, and other resistance offered by the townspeople would be relatively small and isolated. From there, you secure the town, set up a defense, gather more recruits and equipment as needed, and continue onwards in the same fashion, using WORDS rather than violence until violence is necessary. That way, you gather the support of the masses, because it is for the MASSES that you are fighting! After you take the first town, set up shop in a TV broadcast station, broadcast your message of PEACE TO THE PEOPLE, DEATH TO THE GOVERNMENT, encourage others to join the cause, and there will be open rebellion in other parts of the country.
It is my suggestion that this movement starts in the U.S., if people around the world see armed rebellion in the U.S., there will be armed rebellion in other parts of the capitalist world as well. Oh, and one more thing: This revolution will start in less than ten years, I guarantee it.

"Be patient through the coming Revolution, for there are hard times ahead, filled with death and war. Just remember, stumbling is not falling, and the only man who truly loses in life is the man who surrenders." Me
Why was this person banned?

[which doctor]

I once wondered the same thing. So I checked the Admin Actions thread. I guess they made a violent threat to a member on the board. I'm not sure who or why.

[wet blanket]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood+Oct 22 2005, 03:00 AM--> (Fist of Blood @ Oct 22 2005, 03:00 AM)
wet [email protected] 21 2005, 09:35 PM
Why wait for everyone else? Start the revolution with yourself.
Without support you will fail miserably. [/b]
Well by 'start the revolution with yourself' I meant that anyone serious about any kind of revolution needs to take a critical look at themselves and the everyday choices they make... and start making changes.

[Purple]

I believe that the revolution would be triggered by a series of events! there need to be a general mistrust in the government, to build the foundation to organize and protest. It must probably come to the point of physical violence by the government, to convice the people of "good faith" to realise that something has to be done! easy to see, revolution isnt something that happens overnight!

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by wet blanket+Oct 23 2005, 08:04 PM--> (wet blanket @ Oct 23 2005, 08:04 PM)
Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 22 2005, 03:00 AM

wet [email protected] 21 2005, 09:35 PM
Why wait for everyone else? Start the revolution with yourself.
Without support you will fail miserably.
Well by 'start the revolution with yourself' I meant that anyone serious about any kind of revolution needs to take a critical look at themselves and the everyday choices they make... and start making changes. [/b]
what kinds of changes if I may ask?