China Reducing Medicine prices by 40%

[JohnTheMarxist]

Well, I know many people here will disagree with me here, but I still view China as socialist in orientation. I respect everyone's different views here on this matter. I believe even though they have many negatives..just as any country does, they also have many positives and this is one of them. http://english.people.com.cn/200509/28/eng...928_211414.html (http://english.people.com.cn/200509/28/eng20050928_211414.html)

What capitalist government is doing this in the world? The answer: none.

I believe that each country will develope socialism in it's on unique way to fit their nation's specific needs. China is trying to industrialize a huge nation and feed over 1 billion people. Marx was a revolutionary socialist and very highly regarded but I don't think every country will develope under strict Marxism. Also, let us remember that Marx said socialism would happen in stages. He believed a country would have to have democracy and advanced capitalism before a revolution could take place. Also, remember China is trying to stay afloat in a capitalist world.

China forces Wal Mart to allow unions ( the first nation in the world to do this)
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2...tent_394129.htm (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/23/content_394129.htm)

China cancels Africa's debts
http://www.warmafrica.com/index/geo/1/cat/5/a/a/artid/439

Village Elections Training Ground for Democratization
http://www.chinabusinessreview.com/public/0103/horsley.html

China Cuba unite to fight disease:
http://www.workers.org/2005/world/china-cuba-1013/

Constitution of The People's Republic of China
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/constitu...nstitution.html (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/constitution/constitution.html)

China's State Owned Industry grows profits ( many slam China for reforming it's state owned industry and getting rid of the SOE's that were failing..this has however helped the economy and they have been able to reform the dominent SOE's to perform favorably.)
http://www.chinaembassy.org.in/eng/zgbd/t168508.htm
http://english.people.com.cn/english/20001...1015_52661.html (http://english.people.com.cn/english/200010/15/eng20001015_52661.html)

China Practices Progressive taxation
http://www.worldwide-tax.com/china/china_tax.asp

there are many positive links you can find on China just as there are many negative. I think China has a huge corruption problem and must be more agressive in battling the wealth gap...but China is still anti-imperialist and progressive in nature. What other country would execute millionaire businessmen for corruption? China does. Also, The governemtn has recently been requiring the military and schools to more strictly study the communist manifesto.Communist parties shouldnt come to power and make their people poor...They should reform government and make sure they inact policies that lift up the largest majority of the working class as possible.

[JohnTheMarxist]

China focuses on narrowing rich-poor gap
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200510/1...010_213628.html (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200510/10/eng20051010_213628.html)

Free education in China ( China also employs a strong affirmative action program)
http://www.index-china.com/index-english/education-s.htm

There are some additional links

[Leif]

Thanks John, my faith in a socialist China has been increased greatly.

[JohnTheMarxist]

No problem. We need to remember China was a war torn fuedal nation and until the 20th century no countries outside of the paris commune had tried to enact socialism. I do not disparage Mao, The cultural revolution and great leap forward did help the Chinese in many ways, but also hurt. Just as the new policies are helping in some ways and hurting in others. The Chinese acknowledge the road to socialism will take a very long time. Also, remember when Lenin saw that socialism wasn't going to occur in other nations around Russia in the immediate time, he created the NEP ( New Economic Program) to keep the country afloat.

New Economic Policy
http://www.answers.com/topic/new-economic-policy

[andrew_the_fox]

You know why China can afford to do that?


BECAUSE THEIR NOT WASTING BILLIONS
www.costofwar.com

[Fidelbrand]

Living in China, I would say that the country has always been socialist albeit its capitalist progression. The government is very strong and it will stay strong.

[Red Flag]

What socialist country has huge unemployment rates, people starving to death and dying because they can't afford health care, a big income disparity, etc?

Socialism is the stage of transition between capitalism and communism, acheived when when the working class controlls the means of production and the state.

In China, the proletariat controls neither.

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 10:38 PM
Thanks John, my faith in a socialist China has been increased greatly.
As has mine. Thanks for the links, bookmarked them all.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 11 2005, 12:02 PM
What socialist country has huge unemployment rates, people starving to death and dying because they can't afford health care, a big income disparity, etc?

Socialism is the stage of transition between capitalism and communism, acheived when when the working class controlls the means of production and the state.

In China, the proletariat controls neither.
We must note that China hasn't really gone through much of a bourgeois capitalist phase just yet, and so, in respect to the progression of societies outlined by Marx, their behavior is somewhat justified. They have a large neo-leftist trend among the youth especially. China is very large, it will not be like Cuba, but it can stand up for the masses of the world where the US has stood against.

[JohnTheMarxist]

Exactly, I cannot help but be annoyed by people in first world countries who sit at their computers and slam socialist and socialist leaning nations for not jumping straight into communism. Jumping striaght into communism doesn't work- it never has. Also, put yourself in the place of the Chinese, Cubans, Vietnamese, Laotians, Koreans, ect...yes they want an equitable society but they also want to live and until they develop and gain more allies they are going to have to deal with the world as it is and not how they wish it were or they will quickly parish. This by no means is an excuse for everything these nations do and there is plenty of criticism to go around but last time I checked no human was ever perfect and no human movement ever will be.

[Red Flag]

I cannot help but be annoyed by people that take "communist" parties at their words at not their ideas.

It's not about being perfect.

There is a very specific requirment for a nation to be socialist: the working class must control the means of production and the state.

If this is not acheived, the country isn't socialist, no matter how "nice" the rulling class is to the lower classes.

If China is socialist for these reasons, than Sweden must be the bastion of world communism.

[RedJacobin]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 12 2005, 03:56 AM
There is a very specific requirment for a nation to be socialist: the working class must control the means of production and the state.
Well, is that true in Cuba?

[Red Flag]

Yes.

[RedJacobin]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 12 2005, 08:42 AM
Yes.
Really? I thought even Fidelistas didn't make that claim. I thought the standard analysis is that Cuba is a nationally liberated territory moving towards socialism, but far from workers control of production and the state -- though that doesn't detract from the accomplishments of the Cuban Revolution.

[RedStarOverChina]

Even if they cut it by 40% it would still surprise me if people would be happy about this. the cost for treatments is too astronomical for the avergeJoe to afford.

I had always placed hope in the Chinese government in the past. A recent trip back home destroyed all the confidence I had and practically all that I stood for for the past 19 years of my life.

injustice that happens around me and the luxorious lifestyle of the rich disgusts me.

I admit that I was there enjoying the luxory as it simply is socially unacceptable to refuse these treatments. I did so in the first few weeks of my stay--but I looked like a socialpath even to those I hold dearly.

This is the culture overthere. You try to forget about the suffering of the poor and justify it under the name of "nationalism" and "economical progress."

[RedStarOverChina]

China forces Wal Mart to allow unions ( the first nation in the world to do this)
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2...tent_394129.htm

you know that the unions dont count for a thing overthere, right?

The western media claims that unions are illegal in China...that couldn't be further from the truth. However, it's the legitimacy of the unions that comes under question. A union is a branch of the communist party. It doesnt even attempt to represent the workers. All it does is "mediate" between the employees and the business/government agency---in other word, it serves to fool the workers into believing whatever their boss want them to believe.


However, i agree with u when u say China is still anti-imperialist...More so than western countries. However China will not act against imperialism now or in the foreseeable future since it is not in her interest to do so.

nevertheless I think that the fall of US imperialism could only be actualized by China. I just hope China doesnt turn into a imperialist nation soon. My fears is that it WILL turn into one sooner or later, because capitalism automatically lead to imperialism. But hopefully it doesnt happen too soon, or we'll have both China and the US to fight against.

[Phalanx]

On the subject of China I am somewhat neutral. They don't really interfere with international affairs (not nearly as much as the US), but I'm not a big fan of how they treat demonstrators or the huge amounts of political prisoners locked up. Anyway, I was wondering, what do pro-China people think of something like Tiananmen Square?

[RedJacobin]

What are people's thoughts on this:

On December 24, 2004, Maoists in China Get Three Year Prison Sentences for Leafleting (http://www.monthlyreview.org/0105commentary.htm)