Steps North Korea should take

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Here are some steps I've been thinking of, mostly economic measures for North Korea.

1. Industrialize agriculture (shouldn't be a big problem, as North Korea does not have much aerable land, at least according to what I have heard)

2. Open the urban areas for a relative foreign investments with progressive taxation on the government's premises, not otherwise.

3. Trim down government's control over the means of production and establish communally owned corporations with state restrictions on a local basis, instead of the many state owned corporations that exist today. The newspapers, which are horrible today, should not solely be in the hands of the state.

4. Open the whole country for tourism industry.

5. Trim down the uneffective military and decrease military spending, which is abnormally high, at least according to CIA - The World Factbook.

[The Feral Underclass]

What an odd thread.

I'm surprised you've considered this so much. It's my opinion that what North Korea needs is a workers revolution, to overthrow the dictatorship and smash the state, creating a genuine communist society.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Chances that is going to happen is pretty slim. And I am pretty sure most North Koreans hate "Communism", "Socialism" and "Marxism" (or what they believe is "Communism", "Socialism" and Marxism") due to what have happened for about half a century. Maybe they are even shivering on the back when they hear these words.


But I think there are some measures that can improve the situation. Perhaps people will not starve to death if some new reforms were implemented. Most likely, the people of North Korea don't care very much about ideology. They just want to get rid of the system that exist today, and get some food on the table.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 09:25 PM
Chances that is going to happen is pretty slim.
No less than anywhere else.

[More Fire for the People]

1. Industrialize agriculture (shouldn't be a big problem, as North Korea does not have much aerable land, at least according to what I have heard)
The fact that the DPRK has little arable land makes this difficult. For the DPRK to effectively feed its population it is neccessary for it to embark on a programme that establishes the most effective and most nutritious agricultural products.

I suggest massive farms producing: lettuce, spinach, green peas, celery, carrots, rice, maize, wheat, cattle, and chickens (after the bird flu problem calms).


2. Open the urban areas for a relative foreign investments with progressive taxation on the government's premises, not otherwise.
This is already happening but I discourage it. Why should the DPRK people need foreign investors. Why can't the DPRK produce its own McDonalds with better quality food at lower cost.


3. Trim down government's control over the means of production and establish communally owned corporations with state restrictions on a local basis, instead of the many state owned corporations that exist today.
Like Xiapong? That was a brilliant idea, for the capitalist.
I'm not to familiar with the DPRK's planning method but I suggest a system like this:
workers' councils -> congress of a certain trade -> Supreme Economic Council that manages the economy via five-year plans.


The newspapers, which are horrible today, should not solely be in the hands of the state.
I agree a bit, I said earlier...

An independent congress of media workers would run television news, radio news, and newspapers. Censorship would not be possible for the workers and their media organs, thus all workers would be informed about events in the nation and world.
Media workers are not really a part of central-planning except for the need of cameras, papers, and other print stuffs. They would probably send a delegate to the SEC if it was neccessary.


4. Open the whole country for tourism industry.
It is. But I don't thik a socialist republic should soley rely on tourism.


5. Trim down the uneffective military and decrease military spending, which is abnormally high, at least according to CIA - The World Factbook.
Korea facts,

Military personnel (1997): The U.S. has the second-largest armed forces in the world, 1,447,000, of whom 37,000 are stationed in South Korea. North Korea is fifth in the world at 1,055,000. South Korea is sixth at 672,000.

Military budget (2000): The U.S. is ranked first at $343.2 billion, more than the next 16 countries combined. South Korea is ranked 12th at $12.8 billion. North Korea is 32nd at $1.3 billion.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

The leftist movement is stronger and weaker in places, depending on where you look. I think it's pretty safe to say that there is a greater chance of a workers revolution in an area where the leftist movement is stronger?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

This is already happening but I discourage it. Why should the DPRK people need foreign investors. Why can't the DPRK produce its own McDonalds with better quality food at lower cost.

They have so many shortages they can't even finish many building projects. If the nation can't construct buildings, let foreign corporations do it. Besides, they can be nationalized with compensation when the economy goes better.


Like Xiapong? That was a brilliant idea, for the capitalist.
I was not thinking "corporations" in the traditional sense. Some corporations in the world, including in North Korea, are state owned. Basically it could be more of a self-governing unit where, say, the people get a share of the income of the company. The rest of the money would go to the state and further improving the corporation. It would not be a private corporation. It would be communal. What I wrote above is just one of many versions and arrangements.


It is. But I don't thik a socialist republic should soley rely on tourism.

I agree, but it can be a good way to get the economy of North Korea going.



Korea facts,
The military spending is abnormally high according to the capacity of the North Korea economy. Yes, then we should understand the North Korean economy is crap. It's funny how all the "capitalist vampires" around North Korea have a better and more secure economy than that of the mighty North Korea.

And even thought they have a large military, where is the quality? It seems they have only quantity. What kind of airforce do they have? Warplanes from the 1960's? I may not know all about Marxism, but I know more about warfare. And in certain situations, a high-tech modern warplane in the air and 50 well trained soldiers on the ground may very well be much more valuable than 5000 soldiers with a low to medium standard equipped with AK-47's, a body armor and a helmet.

By the way, do you know which nation has the largest military in the world?

[JC1]

1. Industrialize agriculture (shouldn't be a big problem, as North Korea does not have much aerable land, at least according to what I have heard)

Agriculture is mechanizied, but poorly managed.


2. Open the urban areas for a relative foreign investments with progressive taxation on the government's premises, not otherwise.

There is limited economic dengism already.


3. Trim down government's control over the means of production and establish communally owned corporations with state restrictions on a local basis, instead of the many state owned corporations that exist today.

There is some private and co-operative bussinis in northern Korea already.

[small101]

Like the other dude said, they should over throw that pig of a dictator and establish a true comminust state, run by a commital system, disband the military and have nothing to to with industry, continue farming.

death the the 2 faced DPRK!!!

[Zingu]

A Peoples' Revolution is needed for the North Korean masses, and the South Korean people must stand beside them and oppose South Korean and American Imperialists from invading and crushing the self determination of the North Korean people.

Then the Right wing smear machine couldn't go into action, and they would be utterly at a loss when a geniune Communist revolution would flare up, giving a new public face and idea of Communism....putting us on the right track.


I think is a bigger possibility than one might think...Hopefully that will happen, it would a matter of life and death that the South Korean working class also rose up.

[Red Flag]

No less than anywhere else.

What?? Are you saying that the material conditions -- the only force capable of sparking a workers revolution -- are the same everywhere??

Of Course revolution is more likely in some places than others, what are you thinking?

***********

On the DPRK's military: In the DPRK there eists a culture of defense; and for good reason! There still has been no official end to the hostilities stared in the 'Koren Conflict,' and the DPRK is under the constant threat of attack or even nuclear anhilation!

On DPRK's economy: Are you all aware that for some time (I believe most or all of the 60's & 70's), the economy of the DPRK not only surpased that of the ROK (South Korea), but almost all of Asia (excluding Japan & China)?

I'm not sure how things should/could/will play out in the DPRK, but two things seem clear to me: (1) The DPRK must be defended from imperialism & (2) The workers & farmers need to seize control of the state.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I think the first thing they should do is shoot that pig Kim Jong Il.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 08:25 PM
I think the first thing they should do is shoot that pig Kim Jong Il.
thumbs up, bro!

The Kimism and monarchism going on within the Kim family is somethin' that should be done if the country wants to make any meanignful progress.

P.S. The people should also fix his hairstyle. Elect a people's hairdresser and give that guy a decent cut. (j/k) :wub:

[Amusing Scrotum]

Its quite simple really, allow workers' control where the workers' decide their own fate, not a little ugly guy who probably spends most of his time masturbating to American porno.


P.S. The people should also fix his hairstyle. Elect a people's hairdresser and give that guy a decent cut.

A decent cut, hopefully going right through a major artery. :o

[Hiero]

If DPRK were to have a revolution, it would result in more food shortages as people would stop farming. A revolution wont bring the needed infrastructure to feed its people and raise living standards.

[Colombia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 02:03 AM
If DPRK were to have a revolution, it would result in more food shortages as people would stop farming. A revolution wont bring the needed infrastructure to feed its people and raise living standards.
Why would they stop farming when it is the only means they have of feeding themselves.

The revolution won't bring the infrastructure like you said, but it will give it a step forward to making such an ideal possible. Either way a revolution would probably end up making North Korea a much better place to live than it is currently.

[Hiero]

Why would they stop farming when it is the only means they have of feeding themselves.

Because people will be revolting.

The bigest problem is that DPRK does not have a rich friendly country that will help build infrastucture on friendly conditions.

The DPRK has to wait untill more socialist countriess pop up. Or wait till they get ahead with argiculture to build more industry, and industrial argiculture.

[Guest1]

Kim doesn't want a rich socialist country to help, because he won't ever admit there's a problem, and no socialist country would help without pushing an ideological shift.

A revolution in the DPRK would find instant support from Venezuela, which has wealth to spread at the moment and would definitely commit itself to such a project.

[More Fire for the People]

The Supreme People's Assembly which is guided by isolationist-socialism rejects massive help from foreign socialist republics. Kim only serves as the General Secretary of the Party, while he did invent Juche it was the Party that approved of it.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 17 2005, 04:18 AM
Kim doesn't want a rich socialist country to help, because he won't ever admit there's a problem, and no socialist country would help without pushing an ideological shift.

In words only. The DPRK does accept tons of aid. The USSR helped support DPRK, but only in a social imperialist way.

There is another thread in politics.

[Deutsche Ideologie]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 9 2005, 08:19 PM
What an odd thread.

I'm surprised you've considered this so much. It's my opinion that what North Korea needs is a workers revolution, to overthrow the dictatorship and smash the state, creating a genuine communist society.
Word up. Fuck Kim Jong Il and his working-class holocaust.

[anomaly]

Some in this thread wrote the right answer. What should the North Koreans do? Destroy their government! They should rise up and smash the state, and kill everyone involved with the North Korean government. I think that if Korea was united under the South Korean flag, that would be a major step forward.

[Guest1]

Why the south korean flag specifically? Would you like it to be united under south korea's social system too?

Don't forget whatever North Korea's flaws, South Korea's had and continues to uphold a McCarthyist policy towards left organizers, workers and intellectuals.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 03:32 AM
Some in this thread wrote the right answer. What should the North Koreans do? Destroy their government! They should rise up and smash the state, and kill everyone involved with the North Korean government. I think that if Korea was united under the South Korean flag, that would be a major step forward.
Yes, let's bring capitalism back to North Korea forced by South Korean puppets. :rolleyes:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

:lol: Right?


A revolution in the DPRK would find instant support from Venezuela, which has wealth to spread at the moment and would definitely commit itself to such a project.

What makes you sure of that?

If there were any sort of revolution now in the DPRK, I very seriously doubt that it would be left, it would, in all likelyhood be right. Also, do you really think the U.S., ROK, & the UN wouldn't immediately get involved?

[Guest1]

There isn't really an established bourgeoisie of any sort, so you can't consider that a revolution. You could have a Soviet-collapse style rush to capitalism by the bureaucrats, but not a revolution.

A revolution would mean workers/peasants taking power from the ruling caste, but it's highly unlikely given the lack of basic necessities. Freedom can't be eaten, so the top priority of someone facing starvation is not exactly organizing working-class or peasants' councils or reading Marx.

If there was a revolution however, it would instantly find itself in a position where it was supported by places like Venezuela and Cuba, and the end of isolation would be a radical step forwards for north korea which would start a deep process of rebuilding.

[Wanted Man]

Depends on what kind of revolution, Cuba for one has friendly relations with the DPRK, take into account these quotes:

"We will always remember the warm benevolence, support and solidarity to the Cuban people and the Cuban revolution sent by respected President Kim Il Sung, founder and leader of the WPK and the DPRK."
-Fidel Castro, 2005

"Kim Il Sung, who devoted his all to the anti-imperialist struggle, the cause of socialism, the happiness of the people and national reunification, is always with us along with his exploits and historic last instructions."
-Fidel Castro, 2005

"The peoples of the two countries [Cuba and the DPRK] have steadily pushed forward socialist construction in spite of big difficulties and, through it, demonstrated the might and vitality of their ideology and the unity of the revolutionary people and proved the importance of the decisive role of the CPC and the WPK, their vanguard units."
-Fidel Castro, 2005

"Socialism in Cuba and the DPRK will unshakably advance in the future, too, because they are guided by great leaders and great parties."
-Raul Castro, September 2005

"It is thanks to the wise guidance of Kim Jong Il that socialist Korea is now winning victory after victory . . ."
-Raul Castro, September 2005

Also, some pictures:

http://www.embacubalebanon.com/images/travel004.jpg
Che in the DPRK.

http://img288.imageshack.us/img288/4421/kimilsungawardsthetitleofdprkh.jpg
Kim Il-sung gives a title to Fidel.

Anyway, I can't agree with calls for revolution against Kim Jong-il's regime, especially when it looks like most of these calls are made because of ideological differences, rather than a genuine desire to drive the country forwards. If such a "revolution" were to occur, it would be hijacked by the bourgeoisie within no time, and, if succesful, used as an example of communist cruelty and form a perfect tool for anti-communist propaganda.

[Guest1]

Not a social revolution, a political one.

The idea is not that the ideology is flawed, but the bureaucracy itself is now simply incapable of innovation and change, and incapable of leading the country forwards and out of its state of affairs. They were incapable of developing the country before, and now that failure has led to whatever development there was falling into disrepair.

Stagnation must be countered with change. That does not mean it needs to be an explosive change, but change needs to happen as the DPRK has clearly stagnated.

That being said, the conditions for any mass-based change are simply non-existant, since the working class is not strong enough and both workers and peasants are more concerned with food than organizing (rightly so, we all would be in their situation). I'm not sure about internal party politics, but I find it unlikely any element except the right is strong enough to pull any sort of change, so I'm not exactly keen on that either.

Of course, North Korea should be supported against imperialism, and those who turn to reactionary slogans about it are simply immature.

[YKTMX]

The Dear Leader should flaggelate himself on national television and then the NK government should dissolve itself with immediate effect.

Those would be the first steps.


"Socialism in Cuba and the DPRK will unshakably advance in the future, too, because they are guided by great leaders and great parties."
-Raul Castro, September 2005


I can't believe someone quoted this is in the positive. All this proves is that Raul is as braindead as his brother.

[Fidelbrand]

Fuck, Fidel showing ssch respect for DPRK makes me wanna puke.

But he is a good politician, hope he does it for the sake of political convenience.

[DisIllusion]

North Korea doesn't really seem communist. Maybe it's the capitalist brainwashing media but I always saw* it more as a dictatorship than anything.