Taboo Tongue
7th October 2005, 13:43
The State and Revolution Chapter 4 Section 1 'The Housing Question' (http://marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch04.htm#s1)
I've been reading the the State and Revolution and came across a paragraph that I didn't understand, so I asked Zackeria and he interprettited it three different ways each time he read it; later he did get a feel for it, but it should still be brought up.
Lenin quotes Engels (from "The Housing Question")
Originally posted by Engels - "The Housing Question"+--> (Engels - "The Housing Question")
"... It must be pointed out that the 'actual seizure' of all the instruments of labor, the taking possession of industry as a whole by the working people, is the exact opposite of the Proudhonist 'redemption'. In the latter case the individual worker becomes the owner of the dwelling, the peasant farm, the instruments of labor; in the former case, the 'working people' remain the collective owners of the houses, factories and instruments of labor, and will hardly permit their use, at least during a transitional period, by individuals or associations without compensation for the cost. In the same way, the abolition of property in land is not the abolition of ground rent but its transfer, if in a modified form, to society. The actual seizure of all the instruments of labor by the working people, therefore, does not at all preclude the retention of rent relations."[/b]
Note: Engels didn't underline\bold the underlined\bolded text
Does Engels mean that families will have to pay rent to live in houses?
(He says before the above quote "there is already a sufficient quantity of houses in the big cities to remedy immediately all real 'housing shortage").
Lenin interprets the the first quote (...It must be pointed)
Lenin - "The State and Revolution"
We shall examine the question touched upon in this passage, namely, the economic basis for the withering away of the state, in the next chapter. Engels expresses himself most cautiously. saying that the proletarian state would "hardly" permit the use of houses without payment, "at least during a transitional period". The letting of houses owed by the whole people to individual families presupposes the collection of rent, a certain amount of control, nd the employment of some standard in allotting the housing. All this calls for a certain form of state, but it does not at all call for a special military bureaucratic apparatus, with officials occupying especially privileged positions. The transition to a situation in which it will be possible to supply dwellings rent-free depends on the complete "withering away" of the state.
What does Lenin mean by this?
That one cannot turn around and rent out [Socialist] Government provided land\housing to another?
I've been reading the the State and Revolution and came across a paragraph that I didn't understand, so I asked Zackeria and he interprettited it three different ways each time he read it; later he did get a feel for it, but it should still be brought up.
Lenin quotes Engels (from "The Housing Question")
Originally posted by Engels - "The Housing Question"+--> (Engels - "The Housing Question")
"... It must be pointed out that the 'actual seizure' of all the instruments of labor, the taking possession of industry as a whole by the working people, is the exact opposite of the Proudhonist 'redemption'. In the latter case the individual worker becomes the owner of the dwelling, the peasant farm, the instruments of labor; in the former case, the 'working people' remain the collective owners of the houses, factories and instruments of labor, and will hardly permit their use, at least during a transitional period, by individuals or associations without compensation for the cost. In the same way, the abolition of property in land is not the abolition of ground rent but its transfer, if in a modified form, to society. The actual seizure of all the instruments of labor by the working people, therefore, does not at all preclude the retention of rent relations."[/b]
Note: Engels didn't underline\bold the underlined\bolded text
Does Engels mean that families will have to pay rent to live in houses?
(He says before the above quote "there is already a sufficient quantity of houses in the big cities to remedy immediately all real 'housing shortage").
Lenin interprets the the first quote (...It must be pointed)
Lenin - "The State and Revolution"
We shall examine the question touched upon in this passage, namely, the economic basis for the withering away of the state, in the next chapter. Engels expresses himself most cautiously. saying that the proletarian state would "hardly" permit the use of houses without payment, "at least during a transitional period". The letting of houses owed by the whole people to individual families presupposes the collection of rent, a certain amount of control, nd the employment of some standard in allotting the housing. All this calls for a certain form of state, but it does not at all call for a special military bureaucratic apparatus, with officials occupying especially privileged positions. The transition to a situation in which it will be possible to supply dwellings rent-free depends on the complete "withering away" of the state.
What does Lenin mean by this?
That one cannot turn around and rent out [Socialist] Government provided land\housing to another?