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Krypto-Communist
6th October 2005, 01:12
I came across this by accident. It was written in a college newspaper not too long ago. Can you believe this ignoramus? He compares the teaching of Marxism to the "flat earth theory". Not to mention the gross display of ignornace regarding communist theory.

"Everybody will be equally poor blah blah blah"
"Communism has killed a billion people"
"Greed is inherent in human nature"

The stench of ignorance is strong with this one.

Also, may I make a suggestion? Can you create a new section dedicated solely to displaying the idiocy of capitalist supporting writers? People will search the net and post opinion pieces written by people who support America, and the capitalist system, bourgeoise liberals who don't have the guts to condemn American imperialism, etc..

Sound like a good idea?


Suppose for a moment that there was a science professor at this university who believed that the world was flat. He decided to discard every shred of evidence that was contrary to his belief. Furthermore, he indoctrinated thirty years’ worth of students with his distorted beliefs. The readings he assigned were taken from books printed from the time human beings believed that if a ship went too far, it would fall off the edge of the world. Because this professor was supposed to be an expert in his field, some students believed what he told them. His irrational beliefs began to spread. And he wasn’t the only one teaching things that contradicted the evidence of history. His colleagues shared his opinion. What should be the fate of such teachers? Provided the university kept them on staff, they should be laughingstocks among their academic colleagues in other universities. But what if they were lauded as great social benefactors for teaching lies? Wouldn’t that kind of world make you sick?

That exact phenomenon is happening in universities all over the country. It is not happening in science, however, but in politics and economics. The lie they’re teaching is Marxism.

This was driven home to me last year when I had to read the “Communist Manifesto” three separate times. Prior to that, I had read it once simply so I could see for myself the philosophical birthplace of everything that seemed so wrong to me. And for me, reading it once was enough. But professors from three different classes forced it into their required coursework. The only defense I can offer for them is that capitalism has been the predominate theme underlying American politics, philosophy, and literature for at least a century and a half. However, if a professor is going to give his class a piece of Marxist literature, he should, in the name of intellectual objectivity, give the class a piece of pro-capitalist, or at least anti-Marxist, literature of the same quality. When it comes to the Manifesto, the quality is very easy to match, and even easier to exceed.

Anyone who has read the Manifesto, and who has any grounding in legitimate philosophy and literature, will concur that it is an emotion-based document that relies on the anger and the political dissatisfaction of its audience. Nobody but Anton LaVey uses as many exclamation points in his writing as does Karl Marx. This is because Marx’s arguments all rely on the emotional response of his readers, who usually already agree with his ideas. The Manifesto was useful in its day for provoking revolutionary anger in an already restless and oppressed citizenry. But to hold it up as a piece of serious philosophy is ridiculous. For a philosophical argument to be legitimate, its author must start with a given premise and build a rational, step-by-step case from there. Emotional appeals are, by and large, completely removed from the process. When they are not, it often indicates that the author does not have reason on his side and must therefore appeal to emotion, reason’s most irrational yet powerful handmaiden.

If any self-proclaimed Marxist is proud to base his beliefs on this incoherent and emotional document, then I suggest he read it. Many college-age Marxists have not actually read the “Communist Manifesto.” So, if a Marxist has not read the philosophy to which he is lending his name, vote and lip-service, why would he claim to adhere to it? Perhaps it’s in an attempt to “break away from his roots” and “find himself,” to rebel, or to “express who he really is.” These are the same reasons people offer for dropping out of college, covering themselves in tattoos, or using drugs.

These reasons, if not philosophically safe and valid, are at least weak justifications. Or they would be, except for two problems. First, a rebellious college-aged Marxist is forgetting that his parents were probably of college age in the late 1960s or early seventies, and may have helped give birth to the movement he’s using to break away from his roots. Second, college Marxists are the rule, not the exception. If a person wants to break away from the mainstream, moving left is not the way to do it. So many politically vocal young people in universities are Marxists that if someone joins them, he’s entering the majority-ruled camp. That’s fine if he actually believes in Marxism, but if he wants to make a fashion statement, he’d better look twice at the statistics.

Why is a system that is such an obvious historical failure being held up by so many people in universities as something to admire and work towards? This system was the cause of the greatest social and political failure in the history of humankind— Soviet Russia. Has there ever been a philosophy that has caused as much hatred, bloodshed, misery and universal poverty as Communism? Not in the whole of human experience. And yet against all logic, so many raise their flags in support of Marxism. It’s no wonder all their flags are red—the history of their ‘philosophy’ is covered in innocent blood. And they still dare, as they did in the sixties, to paint the symbol of peace on their chests and palms.

We allow the college Marxists to ignore history, and that’s why they exist in such large numbers today. We can’t allow this any longer. Whenever anyone defends a philosophically sound system that stands in diametric opposition to Marxism, the Marxists sneer. They sneer at those of us who evaluate reality and history, who look at their great social experiments and judge their philosophy by the result of those experiments. Their system is a historical failure. Since Marxism is a forcefully egalitarian philosophy—and since it is impossible to raise all human beings higher than their individual maximum potentials for goodness, pureness, productivity, and success—the best the system can do is drag everyone down to match the lowest common denominator.

So why do proponents of this philosophy still exist? Some are stubborn. Most, more than likely, are making some kind of political fashion statement. But the guiltiest — i.e. the thinkers, the experts in their fields, those who are intelligent enough to know better — are performing an abhorrent intellectual evasion, and they are leading countless numbers of young minds down the sewer with them. If they think Marxism is a philosophy to be treated lightly, or ignored, or supported despite the damning finger of history, there is no greater accusation anyone can level against them than the blood of every human innocent that has been slaughtered in its name.

Publius
6th October 2005, 01:31
I thought the article was rather good.

*Hippie*
6th October 2005, 01:32
Many college-age Marxists have not actually read the “Communist Manifesto.”

How does he know this? :huh:

JKP
6th October 2005, 01:55
The communist manifesto was written as an informational pamphlet. It only makes a number of brief references his other works. Using it a source of communist economics or philosophy, can only stem from ignorance. His equation of communism with the Soviet empire is another glaring example of said ignorance.

The majority of the article however, mostly rants about fashion statements.

All in all it was pretty shitty. Most of the cappies on here could probably tear him pieces.

And I agree with you on "the world is flat" bit.

Freedom Works
6th October 2005, 02:11
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 01:12 AM
I thought the article was rather good.
Ditto.

Xvall
6th October 2005, 02:14
Suppose for a moment that there was a science professor at this university who believed that the world was flat. He decided to discard every shred of evidence that was contrary to his belief.

Horrible analogy. This is equating scientific fact with political ideology. There is a substantial difference between believing that the planet earth is flat and adhering to a certain type of economic philosophy.


Furthermore, he indoctrinated thirty years’ worth of students with his distorted beliefs.

By requiring them to read the manifesto? All schools, in general, require students to read a lot of things - it doesn't necessarily mean that they have to agree with it, especially when you're dealing with college students who probably already have a fairly good perception of what their beliefs are. I was required to Huck Finn in High School, but I wouldn't go and claim that our teacher was indoctrinating us with racist, southern, beliefs.


The readings he assigned were taken from books printed from the time human beings believed that if a ship went too far, it would fall off the edge of the world.

Blah, Blah, fallacious metaphor.


Because this professor was supposed to be an expert in his field, some students believed what he told them.

Their own fault/choice. People can believe what they want. The teacher didn't force them to.


And he wasn’t the only one teaching things that contradicted the evidence of history. His colleagues shared his opinion. What should be the fate of such teachers? Provided the university kept them on staff, they should be laughingstocks among their academic colleagues in other universities. But what if they were lauded as great social benefactors for teaching lies? Wouldn’t that kind of world make you sick?

Yeah, it would - so fire all the teachers that don't teach Marxism and insist that Capitalism is superior, please. (As far as I know, most teachers hold this mindset, and not a Marxist one.)


That exact phenomenon is happening in universities all over the country. It is not happening in science, however, but in politics and economics. The lie they’re teaching is Marxism.

Yeah, science and ideological beliefs are pretty much the same thing, right?


This was driven home to me last year when I had to read the “Communist Manifesto” three separate times.

Boo-Hoo!


However, if a professor is going to give his class a piece of Marxist literature, he should, in the name of intellectual objectivity, give the class a piece of pro-capitalist, or at least anti-Marxist, literature of the same quality.

Wouldn't professors have to do that for everything to be fair? Should religious professors have the students read some Satanic bibles in Christianity 101? It's only fair!


Anyone who has read the Manifesto, and who has any grounding in legitimate philosophy and literature, will concur that it is an emotion-based document that relies on the anger and the political dissatisfaction of its audience.

I guess people like Albert Einstein just have no grounding in legitimate philosophy and literature, then.


Nobody but Anton LaVey uses as many exclamation points in his writing as does Karl Marx.

I frankly thought that was funny as hell. Comparing LaVey to Marx.


This is because Marx’s arguments all rely on the emotional response of his readers, who usually already agree with his ideas. The Manifesto was useful in its day for provoking revolutionary anger in an already restless and oppressed citizenry. But to hold it up as a piece of serious philosophy is ridiculous. For a philosophical argument to be legitimate, its author must start with a given premise and build a rational, step-by-step case from there. Emotional appeals are, by and large, completely removed from the process. When they are not, it often indicates that the author does not have reason on his side and must therefore appeal to emotion, reason’s most irrational yet powerful handmaiden.

Marx explains his ideas, whether you agree with them or not, and his theories are supplemented by many other countless works. I assume the professor issued the Manifesto to be read because it would be absurd to require everyone to read Capital to get the "whole picture"


If any self-proclaimed Marxist is proud to base his beliefs on this incoherent and emotional document, then I suggest he read it. Many college-age Marxists have not actually read the “Communist Manifesto.” So, if a Marxist has not read the philosophy to which he is lending his name, vote and lip-service, why would he claim to adhere to it?

Stupid statement pulled out of his ass. I don't even know where he got this.


Perhaps it’s in an attempt to “break away from his roots” and “find himself,” to rebel, or to “express who he really is.” These are the same reasons people offer for dropping out of college, covering themselves in tattoos, or using drugs.

Not only is this unfounded speculation, but it brings out certain aspects of the author - he seems to not only have a deep hatred for communism, but considers them in league with dropping out of college, getting a tattoo, and using drugs. Of course, he's wrong about people doing these things to rebel (Who the fuck drops out of college to rebel, really? High School, perhaps, but college?). I use drugs to drown out the voices of people like him.


First, a rebellious college-aged Marxist is forgetting that his parents were probably of college age in the late 1960s or early seventies, and may have helped give birth to the movement he’s using to break away from his roots. Second, college Marxists are the rule, not the exception. If a person wants to break away from the mainstream, moving left is not the way to do it. So many politically vocal young people in universities are Marxists that if someone joins them, he’s entering the majority-ruled camp. That’s fine if he actually believes in Marxism, but if he wants to make a fashion statement, he’d better look twice at the statistics.

Basically him trying to convince "rebels" that if they really want to be cool they should become right-wingers.


Why is a system that is such an obvious historical failure being held up by so many people in universities as something to admire and work towards?

This is something I actually agree with him on. I have no idea why universities continue to perpetuate the notion of "American Democracy".


Has there ever been a philosophy that has caused as much hatred, bloodshed, misery and universal poverty as Communism?

Christianity.


And yet against all logic, so many raise their flags in support of Marxism. It’s no wonder all their flags are red—the history of their ‘philosophy’ is covered in innocent blood.

More metaphors. Please shut up.


And they still dare, as they did in the sixties, to paint the symbol of peace on their chests and palms.

Us devils.

I'm going to stop here. The rest is just him accusing communism of being the worst thing in history and pointing to the Soviet Union as an example of failed socialism. (Completely ignoring that there have been many despostic and horrific regimes that embraced capitalism as well.)

JKP
6th October 2005, 02:18
I can't believe the cappies are actually liking this article. Their standards must be going down or something.

Amusing Scrotum
6th October 2005, 21:44
Whats really amusing is how he drones on about the emotional writing style present in the Manifesto. Yet his article relies solely on a silly emotional appeal to his readers to embrace his hatred of Marxism and Marxists.

Also as JKP rightly stated, "The Communist Manifesto", is no more than a political manifesto for a political party. A good manifesto, but still a manifesto.

Plus, if the writer of the article truly believes that "The Communist Manifesto" is the basis of all Marxist political philosophy, then I think he will be very lucky to graduate from college.


I thought the article was rather good.


Oh come on Publius, you have higher standards of argument. You would not be so dull to hold this up as a legitimate argument against Communism, Freedom Works would, but you wouldn't.

Latifa
6th October 2005, 21:59
Publius, even you could form a better argument against Marxism. Please, lift your game, it's depressing to see you sink to this rubbish.

RedStarOverChina
6th October 2005, 22:07
When it comes to the Manifesto, the quality is very easy to match, and even easier to exceed.

:lol: I am astonished by this great logician.

Anarchist Freedom
7th October 2005, 15:46
I find this article just well stupid. I mean honestly this man some of the worlds worst analogies.

Freedom Works
7th October 2005, 21:30
Publius, even you could form a better argument against Marxism. Please, lift your game, it's depressing to see you sink to this rubbish.


I find this article just well stupid. I mean honestly this man some of the worlds worst analogies.

Please form a better argument against this paper, it's depressing to see "BOOHOOO!!" as your argument.

Amusing Scrotum
7th October 2005, 21:56
Please form a better argument against this paper, it's depressing to see "BOOHOOO!!" as your argument.

Hello, earth to Freedom Works. I think you'll find, if you bothered reading this thread, that Xvall made a very good argument against the impotence of the article. Look its there for everyone to read, including yourself.

Also may I remind you, your comment on the article was -


Ditto.

Please offer a better defence of the article and stop being so petty.

Xvall
8th October 2005, 00:24
Seriously, though, the arguments I see here on the board are generally more thought out and concise than this one.

Ele'ill
8th October 2005, 00:41
"Greed is inherent in human nature"

I think the need to horde objects is in nature. We want more of everything as it generally means we're going to survive longer. More twigs for the nest, as much meat as you can swallow before the larger predators or the alpha male or female move in, as much territory as you can mark and guard. 'Over' protection of resources is not a new or uncommon thing in nature. As humans we have the ability or will to keep it in our concious not do punch fred in the face if he happens to walk his dog on your lawn. I don't have a lawn so i'm not sure what kind of urges any of you may have.


Their own fault/choice. People can believe what they want. The teacher didn't force them to.

Depends on how the material was presented. Was it overbearing or otherwise presented as fact or was it presented as an open discussion?


Wouldn't professors have to do that for everything to be fair? Should religious professors have the students read some Satanic bibles in Christianity 101? It's only fair!

Teachers are there to help students find themselves. Not to present a strong bias. Why not speak about capitalism as well? If they didn't teach about all political ideologies with neutral bias, and only present their own beliefs when asked or during an open speaking session, it would be a form of censorship.

I think Xvall&#39;s breaking down of the article was worse than the article itself. Not a personal attack on you but I guess this says something about all the OTHER posts in this thread. :blink: :blush: <_<

apathy maybe
9th October 2005, 06:41
The problem I had with the article (I didn&#39;t read it all, so my point may have been addressed) is that Marxism isn&#39;t just the Communist Manifisto. Simple as that.

Xvall
9th October 2005, 07:52
Teachers are there to help students find themselves. Not to present a strong bias. Why not speak about capitalism as well?

Probably because that part of the professor&#39;s cirriculum is discussing Marxism. Because of the poor quality and lack of information throughout the piece, I can&#39;t tell exactly what his professor was doing. Maybe if the kid signed up for some generic Economics/Political class and the professor turned the entire thing into a platform for perpetuating Marxist ideals, he might have a point - but as far as I can see, he&#39;s just throwing a hissy-fit because his teacher made him read a book he didn&#39;t like.


Was it overbearing or otherwise presented as fact or was it presented as an open discussion?

Again - the writer doesn&#39;t go through much effort to explain anything other than how much he hates Marxism, so I don&#39;t know.


I think Xvall&#39;s breaking down of the article was worse than the article itself. Not a personal attack on you but I guess this says something about all the OTHER posts in this thread.

Good for you. Usually, when you make a statement like that, though, you have to explain why.

Publius
9th October 2005, 19:07
I can&#39;t believe the cappies are actually liking this article. Their standards must be going down or something.

It&#39;s decent enough for its size and target audience.

Of course, I&#39;m probably just saying this because I rather agree with it.