1984 or Brave New World?

[Hegemonicretribution]

I am not in a great position to comment yet, I am up to savage reservations in BNW, but am reading it for the first time :o. I am already starting to prefer brave new world, for reasons to be discussed later. Which is your favourite of these two giants of distopian literature?

[Amusing Scrotum]

I've been meaning to read "Brave New World" for a while now. Though I doubt it could beat 1984. 1984 is hands down, my favourite book of all time.

[Clarksist]

I really enjoyed Brave New World for the fact that it completely emulates what capitalism is turning into. Its not science fiction, it was written as a true story and then they sent it back in time. :lol:

1984 makes so many good observations on means of security over humanity though. I just am so torn. I would say that they both stand as equals, but they are almost different in the lessons.

And to all those douchebags who say Orwell was no leftist: read a book. :lol:

[coda]

I prefer 1984 -- the story has stayed with me longer-- that's how I know.

I read Brave New World and Brave New World Revisited about 15 years ago, (man time fucking flys!!!) I found a part very disturbing in that, however, which I won't mention since not everyone has read the book.

[Xvall]

1984. It's far more depressing.

[Phalanx]

1984 and One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest are my favorite books of all time. 1984 is great because at the time it scared the shit out of people.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I am coming up to the end now so can comment slightly more. 1984 is a simple, but effective book in my oppinion. However Brave New World raise many philosophical and ethical questions. It picks at the very idea of happiness, and freedom. The utopian world from our viewpoint is disgusting, however the image is mirrored when they view our world. It is socialisation flipped partially on its head.

Everyone belonging to everyone.....inverted ideas of, or abandonment of the concept of ownership, strike any bells?

The world that Huxley painted is far more futuristic than that of Orwell, but because of the hapiness and functional nature of his society it creates far more, possibly dangerous, thought. What are human goals? Complete hapiness, freedom? What is one without the other, were they any less free?

I am waiting for the twist, I haven't been this excited since I, actually I am more excited than when I read 1984.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Not having read BNW, I can't really say (Although apparently my former flatmate is a relative of the author!)

1984 has a very large scope to it and focuses on power structures and how the affect our relationships, while BNW goes off on a posthuman tangent where people are made to fit the molds rather than being forced into them and having any bits that stick out cut off, as in 1984. I could be wrong however.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

1984 is simply an attack on totalitarianism, be it left or right. i think most of us woud agree with that.

but BNW is about authority in general, and probably carries with it an anarchistic message (im not exactly the best at dragging meanings out). its about the effects of both authority and the society it creates on an outsider, which can mean many things on many levels.

i would have to say i prefer BNW. also, i think its worth pointing out the way huxley talks about the great war in bnw. strange to think that when he wrote about it he was probably thinking about wwi, as it was the biggest war so far at the time. and yet, just a few years later, wwii happened, and the world got a whole new look at the horrors of a massive war, one in comparison to which wwi, and consequently, the war huxley had in mind, seemed smal and distant.

[Hayduke]

I have read both and 1984 was really a pleasure to read . It is written to be read. " brave new world " is written rather boring.

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 06:09 PM
. strange to think that when he wrote about it he was probably thinking about wwi, as it was the biggest war so far at the time. and yet, just a few years later, wwii happened, and the world got a whole new look at the horrors of a massive war, one in comparison to which wwi, and consequently, the war huxley had in mind, seemed smal and distant.
Well to be fair World War 1 was a much more bloodthirsty war and cost more lives.


I have read both and 1984 was really a pleasure to read . It is written to be read. " brave new world " is written rather boring.

I found it the other way around. Brave New World was a much better written book to me.

[dev/null]

I personally enjoyed Brave New World much more, as it was a far more detailed and intricate critique of society. And as I'm sure will be discussed on these forums, it has quite a few allusions towards Marxism.

That being said, it's hard to pick something over 1984 since it does have so many iconic ideas spread throughout it. While I always thought Orwell's style was dry and sometimes boring, it's very fitting for 1984 due to the desolate atmosphere he is attempting to convey.

I had read both books several years ago, back to back during the summer after sixth grade. They're really what helped to jumpstart my development into the person I am today. Along with those two however I also went through Stranger in a Strange Land (by the ever great Heinlein), which I would also suggest if looking for satirical dystopias ;)

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by D [email protected] 6 2005, 06:22 PM
I have read both and 1984 was really a pleasure to read . It is written to be read. " brave new world " is written rather boring.
Although I loved 1984, Orwell's writing style, also true in many of his more complex works is slightly dull. The content is the sole redeeming factor. Huxley writes in a far more inviting manor, and to be honest I don't know why 1984 has become more iconic. Perhaps it is so amongst the left because BNW raises more philosophical questions, 1984 is just more useful in our terms.

[Eastside Revolt]

'84 is a much better read.

I didn't particularly enjoy either.

The real problem with most of Orwell's books is that they've become somewhat of a bible for liberals in the west. They make everyone scared to impose their view on eachother, for fear of being like "big brother".

[danny android]

definitly 1984. I feel more personal feeling in that one for some reason, and over all prefer the story line.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Originally posted by Josh+Oct 6 2005, 06:35 PM--> (Josh @ Oct 6 2005, 06:35 PM)
[email protected] 6 2005, 06:09 PM
. strange to think that when he wrote about it he was probably thinking about wwi, as it was the biggest war so far at the time. and yet, just a few years later, wwii happened, and the world got a whole new look at the horrors of a massive war, one in comparison to which wwi, and consequently, the war huxley had in mind, seemed smal and distant.
Well to be fair World War 1 was a much more bloodthirsty war and cost more lives. [/b]
yes, but i think huxleys point about science and war is more true in of WWII. *points to hiroshima*

[Sabocat]

Hard to say. They were both great in their own way. I did love BNW however. Fahrenheit 451 is also a big favorite in the genre.

[bolshevik butcher]

I've read both. I liked brave new world, but I have to say 1984's a more potent book for me.

[Jesus Christ!]

I've only read Brave New World. I hope to read 1984 soon.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 07:37 PM
Hard to say. They were both great in their own way. I did love BNW however. Fahrenheit 451 is also a big favorite in the genre.
I was going to include that, but I didn't think as many people would be familiar with it. I dicovered it in the back of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. There are some great books out there.

Anyone else know of any good examples in the genre, these two (three maybe) are probably the best know, I would be interested in maybe less well known gems.

[dev/null]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 10:21 PM
Anyone else know of any good examples in the genre, these two (three maybe) are probably the best know, I would be interested in maybe less well known gems.
It depends on what you consider the genre to be. If you mean social/political/religious satires set in sci-fi dystopias, then there are plenty worth reading. I would definately second Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 and have already pointed out Stranger in a Strange Land, which I feel is Heinlein's greatest contribution to that genre. However, Starship Troopers is also pretty good. Don’t let the film adaptation fool you, the book is far more meaningful. Aside from that, Philip K. Dick has always been a favorite of mine, though his ideas explore religion and general metaphysics more so than anything. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is probably Dick’s most well known work, though The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch and The Man in the High Castle are also both excellent. Kurt Vonnegut Jr. tends to hover around in said genre quite a bit, but his stories are rather short and can be hit or miss. A sure fire bet with his body of work would at least be Cat’s Cradle, just be prepared for a more humorous slant than experienced with any of the aforementioned authors. ;)

[Led Zeppelin]

I don't read anti-Communist literature (crap), sorry.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by Marxism-[email protected] 11 2005, 02:16 AM
I don't read anti-Communist literature (crap), sorry.
Most of it is not anti-communist. In fact to see it like that is largely to miss the point, you know better than that. Regardless not reading conflicting ideas is anti-communist itself. Always question, Marx isn't gossple, if I find something better I will move on, it just happens some of the best ideas I have come across have foundations in Marx.

Thanks for the suggestions dev/null. I know farenheit 451 but most of those books I don't know what they are about, indeed I have never heard of some. :)

I was wondering if anyone knows about a book called We??? or something similar, it is apparently the Russian book from which Orwell got the idea for 1984.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

1984 for me.

[timbaly]

Both are very good. Brave New World is more plausible and closer to what is going on in the world, but I prefer the story and actual writing of 1984.

[Quota 76 denial]

Personally I liked 1984 better because it sort of offers a solution in primal state of mind, but as we all know it does not compare to the seduction of big brother. To me 1984 is much more attuned with the erotic. Brave New world is more attuned with happiness through difference pitted against indifference, other emotions are really non-represented.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I suppose what it boils down to is that in 1984 people have more freedom than in brave new world, but are less happy and more oppressed.

There isn't really oppression or discontent like in 1984, and this stems out of a total restriction of freedom. A beautiful book compared to the ugliness of 1984, not that we shouldn't have to face what is ugly.

[D_Bokk]

Hmm. I'm having a hard time deciding. I'm only part way into Brave New World, but I really enjoy it. I usually really like the book I'm reading when I am reading it, so my opinion now would be rather bias; but they're both equally good.

On a side note, why is Huxley always using Communists' (Marx, Trotsky, Engels) and Anarchist's (Bakunin) as last names? Is he really that delusional to think that the future he was describing was Communist/Anarchist? If I learn latter in the book, then nevermind this question.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Sorry to bump this, but I just had to say this, and it didn't warrant a new thread.

Brave New World was the worst movie in the history of the world ever!!! I was warned about it by a film buff and a tutor, but I still went ahead and wished I hadn't. If you like brave new world do not watch this. If you are one of those people that watches the movie and pretends you read the book then do not watch this. Just don't watch it ever.

Out of interest did anyone pass judgment based on the film?

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 07:45 PM
Sorry to bump this, but I just had to say this, and it didn't warrant a new thread.

Brave New World was the worst movie in the history of the world ever!!! I was warned about it by a film buff and a tutor, but I still went ahead and wished I hadn't. If you like brave new world do not watch this. If you are one of those people that watches the movie and pretends you read the book then do not watch this. Just don't watch it ever.

Out of interest did anyone pass judgment based on the film?
Was that the one with Leonard Nimoy? Yes, it was shit. Thankfully I read the book before I saw the film.

[Technique3055]

I just started Brave New World, so I really can't say too much, but this is what my first impressions are:

Brave New World is going to prove to be a lot more educational for me, and will make much more sense in reality. It seems to be a so dead-on prediction of capitalism that it truly is scary (How even biology has started to become mass-produced [I'm not sure if that point is really relevant to the entire story, but I'm not too far]).

However, 1984 was a far more enjoyable read. It was just so exciting I couldn't put it down (and as a result of reading it through Biology class, my grade is hurting).