Two questions, comrades

[Geddan]

Questions:

1. Ralph Nader, what kind of guy is he? I've read he was a candidate in the US elections for the Green Party, but what kind of guy is he? I know he is a leftist, but how far and how extreme?

2. I've encountered the term "libertarian Marxism" in some places. Anarchocommunism seems to have a non-marxist background and I conclude that libertarian Marxism must be anarchocommunism with a marxist background, right? If I am correct, what marxist traits does libertarian marxism possess? The dialectic stuff looks obvious to me, and the fact that the workers should get the profit of their work (or else it wouldn't be marxism), but what more?

[Iepilei]

call me daring, but I would assume that all forms of communism have some root in marxism - lest I would hope they would.

[Geddan]

Well I hope so to :0) but the anarchist FAQ at infoshop.org doesn't agree with me. I've called myself an anarchocommunist, and a marxist, but I've never thought someone would call something non-marxist communism.

Well, in addition to the two questions above, enlighten me on Lenin too. How authoritarian is his ideas? Can you be a (left-)libertarian and a leninist? It sounds stupid, I know, but Marx, Engels and some anarchists are the only ones I know in detail.

(Edited by Geddan at 8:10 pm on Jan. 3, 2003)

[Som]

Some of Naders views (compared the republicrats), off a table from one of the greens website:

http://www.therealdifference.com/difference2.html

"call me daring, but I would assume that all forms of communism have some root in marxism - lest I would hope they would. "

Hardly.
Communism was an idea around before Marx, he just developed it in a certain way.
Proudhoun was one of the first socialist writers (though not communist, his theories are 'individualist mutualism'), quite a bit before Marx, he was also the first to call himself an anarchist.

Most anarchists have very little root, if any at all in marxism.

"Can you be a (left-)libertarian and a leninist? "

I don't think so, Leninists one party state and vanguard are two concepts very much against libertarian ideas.
Beyond that Lenin wrote an entire book calling left communism 'an infantile disorder'

[synthesis]

I've encountered the term "libertarian Marxism" in some places.

What might be referred to is libertarian socialism, which is basically anarcho-communism divided in half.

Noam Chomsky is probably the most famous libertarian socialist.

Communism was an idea around before Marx, he just developed it in a certain way.


In a very basic sense - that of tribal societies living on the basis of giving what you can and getting what you need.

What you are probably referring to is socialism, which was the fantasically successful result of various working-class experiments in Britain, Germany, Prussia, and some other places. Marx took socialism to its logical conclusion.

[Geddan]

DyerMaker, the anarchist FAQ refers to libertarian marxism as being closer to anarchism than mainstream marxism, but still not pure anarchism, so I guess it's a mystery.

The reason I asked about being leninist and libertarian is that I'm going through an "identity crisis" or whatever you call it. In all tests I always become "libertarian left", but I don't want to throw Lenin out of my mind because he is an authoritarian. Didn't Bakunin have some thoughts about anarchists guiding the people thru a revolution in a similar way to Lenin's Bolsheviks? And were really the one-party state on of Lenin's fundamental ideas? I thought they instituted that when the revolution had been done, to stop the mensheviks from gaining power.

Well, I feel pressed to ask another question here... Trotsky's ideas were that no socialist state could exist if not most part of the world were socialist, because every country is dependent on the world market, and if capitalism dominated that, socialism would be fought back, and he had also some more ideas about peasants being dialectically less able to lead a revolution. I think this is Trotskyism, but how did it become in practice? Did it ever gain much power in Soviet, before the Man of Steel chased Trotsky away?

[Som]

Much more than the very basic sense, Communism was an ideology in european thought quite a bit before Marx got to it.

Not just socialism, before that time socialism and communism were used interchangebly.
People like Bakunin who were contemporaries of Marx put more into the actual theory of communism, instead of Marx's scientific communism and the like.

In the whole scheme of political theories and the like, I think Marx and Engels get far more credit than they deserve.


"libertarian marxism as being closer to anarchism than mainstream marxism"

Libertarian Marxism sounds like a bit of an odd concept, I'd assume it would involve ditching the state quicker than the more usual view of some incredibly far off time, but likely its just meant as Marxism with a very free state.
Either way, Marxism implies a sort of statism, so its really hard to say.

"Didn't Bakunin have some thoughts about anarchists guiding the people thru a revolution in a similar way to Lenin's Bolsheviks? And were really the one-party state on of Lenin's fundamental ideas?"

I've Bakunin accused of that sort of leninist vanguard view several times, but I read something by him denouncing this, has sort of an odd view of that really.

http://www.spunk.org/texts/writers/bakunin...n/sp000333.html (http://www.spunk.org/texts/writers/bakunin/sp000333.html)

He describes it there.

[Nateddi]

Ralph Nader is one of my favorite liberals of this time. He was my favorite in November 2000, it's a real shame he didn't make 5%. His politics are for the most part social democratic, which is communist relative to mainstream American politics. He is a consumer advocate whose career involved primarily fighting for the people against big business. If you listen to his speeches, you'll notice his heartwarming populist rhetoric of hope and optimism. Check out some of Nader's speeches on Democracy Rising (http://www.democracyrising.org), and there is a nifty little news video flick of the countdown to the presidential election on GNN (http://www.gnn.tv/countdown/).

[RedCeltic]

Ralph Nader has been a famous American consumer advicate for many years. He was famous back in the 1950's.. so when green parties from around the countery decided to run a presidential candidate in 2000, they agreed to nominate Ralph Nader who who is something of a household name and would gain the Green party recognition and press coverage.

Nader however is not the Green party, the Greens are actually much more radical than he is who is basicly a one issue candidate. He ran his campain to preach about corperate responsibility.

[Geddan]

Here in Sweden, we who are leftists see the social democrats as right wing :) But of course, the political climate is different here.

I haven't got a clue of where to turn and what to call myself, I oppose capitalism as it is a way to legally rob workers of their profits they have made. I oppose dictatorships as well, but I don't really know where to turn. As I said, I don't want to kick Lenin and Trotsky out of the house (yet) just because I oppose authorities. My political compass score is like -10 on the ecónomic scake and like -8 on the libertarian scale, so according to the compass I am an anarchocommunist, anarchosyndicalist or whatever, but I won't call myself something just because the Compass implies it.