Gang warfare

[mentalbunny]

After recent shootings in Birmingham which have rocked the UK I would like to know what is going to be done about this? The UK government is considering putting a prison sentece of 5 years for possesion of firearms.

There has been a dramatic increase over the last few years (sorry I don't have any figures on me) of firearms being used, and it seems that the problem is that guns used to only be used for more major disputes but now are being used more frequently for smaller grievances.

It is blatently obvious that the public should not have access to firearms as this causes all kinds of problems but how do we get rid of the ones that are out there?

Has anyone experianced gang warfare? What are the politicians going to do? If it's this bad here in the UK what the fuck is it like in the US?

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Gang warfare is a product of poverty and inequality. So besides doing something about the firearms problem, they should change the system. It's just another product of captalism.

[Corvus Corax]

They should use the firearms for a revolution.

[Iepilei]

Gang warfare is just a way for the lower and oppressed classes to force themselves into the upper echelon. You do what you have to do to surivive.

Anyways, in the states it can be very bad - especially if you live in or around a particularly poor neighborhood.

[Umoja]

Ironically in the United States, the Conservatives battle for us to be able to keep guns, since it's one of the American rights. I love it.

[Conghaileach]

What is it that causes gang warfare? Is it two groups fighting over the control of a certain area? Fighting over drugs? What do you think causes it?

[Umoja]

Drugs mainly. In the United States we have the State created super-addictive crack, I'm not sure if they sythesize it in Britain also.

[BasementAddix]

Quote: from CCCP on 2:26 pm on Jan. 3, 2003
Gang warfare is a product of poverty and inequality. So besides doing something about the firearms problem, they should change the system. It's just another product of captalism.



all govts and all countries have gangs....

[Iepilei]

money is the main drive of all gangs and gang activities. drugs, prostitution, blackmail, robbery, murder. it's all fronts to make cash.

[Santa Clara]

Can I just say that gang warfare does not just come out of poverty and oppression.
One of my friends is not poor or oppressed, no more than any other white boys in developed countries anyway. He's in the middle of gang warfare and I swear to god all the guys involved are only doing their shit with guns because they think it's cool. They're trying to be cool because guns are cool, killing people is cool. fuck their idiots.

[guerrillaradio]

I'd say it's class and race differences and organised crime. Basically, conversationism and money, which equates to right-wing capitalism in my book.

[Exploited Class]

Quote: from BasementAddix on 7:13 am on Jan. 4, 2003

Quote: from CCCP on 2:26 pm on Jan. 3, 2003
Gang warfare is a product of poverty and inequality. So besides doing something about the firearms problem, they should change the system. It's just another product of captalism.



all govts and all countries have gangs....


I have a hard time telling gangs apart from govertments, they seem the same to me.

Gangs can come up for a lot of reasons. You can think of it as a union for protection. When racism was steep of the Irish in the US, there were a lot of irish gangs protecting themselves and their intrests. Remember however they were poor.

I have heard the theory that the success of the black panthers as an organization helped drive the black community in America to form gangs. I feel that the mofia was a better blueprint however.

Gangs are going to be protective or underbelly capitalists. Mafia and drug trade are underbelly capitalists.

Mafia wouldn't exists however is it wasn't for the niche allowed to them by capitalism.

[RedRevolutionary87]

the thing with your friend is probably that he is in the lower younge ranks of the gang..or in a non important youth gang....the leaders r doing it for the money and thats it..whether its cool or not doesnt matter...gun controll is partly the problem...having a gang wouldnt be so easy if every1 had a gun..its easier to make sure every1 is armed and tained than to take guns away. it needs to be controlled but not abolished becuz abolishing just makes sure that the people that need guns for crime have them while the people being robbed dont. and yes gangs are the product of capitalism...basicly money andownership...if there is no need for money or you cant own anything anyway whats the use of stealing...i say abolishing guns for citizens is a very bad idea on the contrary we should arm the masses, and level the playing field

[Umoja]

People want to get noticed. I just thought about that when I was reading Invisible Man. People want to be seen, and they want lots of people to see them.

[I Bow 4 Che]

I live in a Southern California quite close to LA but it's the bourgeoisie. So the gangs are different here. I am not racist for all my friends happen to be asian, but they over-populate the area. This results in "Asian-Pride" gangs. The members are all wealthy as it is, thus their goals are not to make money. I'm guessing it's a unity thing as someone stated earlier. However there is ALOT of warfare between them. It's mostly drugs...or is it? I think drugs are just an element of the disaster. When people are part of a big group they feel powerful, because it's not just them. If anyone fucks with them they feel the need to fuck back. However they are not powerful themselves, alone, what makes them powerful are the guns. I don't think this can be easily changed. It was Lenin who said

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one."

with gangs...everyone has guns...what then?


someone said they thought poverty was an issue with gangs and I highly disagree...it's ego, it's unity, it's power.

Great topic! :)

[abstractmentality]

their is not just one cause for gangs as a generality, but their can be causes for gangs in particular areas. Contrary to IB4C's situation, my early high school years were spent hanging out with many of the local mexican gangsters that came from pure poverty. All of the people that i knew were born into poverty, and most of them born from the old school gangsters. but, from my experience, i can not give you a reason why these people did it. i use to go to this guy we called PapPap's house almost every day after school, and he would tell me about how the gang life had nothing in store for any of his fellow gangsters. however, he still continued to sell his weed (of which he had just got out of juvienile hall for), carry a 12 gauge shot gun in his bedroom, and go around with plenty of gangsters. And one of the reasons he stayed hanging out with these people is because a lot of these people were his family or people that he grew up with, and after that many years, you dont just leave them. For me, and many other people of that time, all of us were together because we grew up together, or were friends of people we grew up with. thats why i can not say how gangs start, and say that each case is on an individual basis. my peers were born into it, sort of, but i know some 45 year old gangsters that, i believe, started doing what they are still doing by selling drugs and doing hits on people. the bad thing is that the areas with people in gangs in my city is gradually becoming larger and larger, while these people should be doing something a little more than killing somebody from across town because of 20 year old fueds between two gangs.

not sure if this helped anything in the discussion, i just thought i would put in some of my own words.

[pastradamus]

Ibow4che has hit the nail on the head.People naturally feel strong in numbers,thats why in america WASP's dont form gangs,because they're confidant that they're in complete control of the country.Thats another reason why theres a special day for Irish,polish,blacks,ect... in american.How come theres none for the english?
For the same reason I've already stated.

[queen of diamonds]

I think gangs began as a way to find strength through unity, then became a good way to get attention and a cool thing to do.

I mean, even the Mafia began in Italy as an organisation designed to counter the corruption of the police.

[Pavan Sohal]

most genuinely poor people who commit crimes to survive do not use weapons. the majority of the violence comes from young men who decide to get ahead using the firearms that they have become desensitized to in the media. Basically movies and music videos have made it more cool to be "thugged-out" than to be able to earn more.

[KickMcCann]

I guess none of you have ever been in a gang before. I have. Gangs are not formed because the inner-city "repressed prolitariat" feel unsafe and depressed, gangs come from a lack of education; which turns people into ignorant tribalists. They are surrugant families for people without real families, and are elitist to the bone. The guy on top gets whatever he wants, while the guy on the bottom does whatever he is told, or face violent brutality or even death. Inner-city ghettos have a definite abandoned feeling to them, without a center of outside power and authority, either democratic or totalitarian, a strong power-vaccum is created. This vaccum is filled up by anyone how can create wide-spread respect and fear. People follow that kind of power like they are helpless sheep.
A gang's main concern is recognition, respect, money, drugs, the sex trade, weapons, territory, and power of other people. As long as they have those things, they care nothing for principles or morals. If peace is profitable, they'll make peace; if terror is profitable, they create havoc. Much like world politics, but on a different relative level. Relativity is everywhere in all things, it's amazing.
Gangs can be broken though. The state can become wary of bad plublicity and kill or arrest the leaders. But they are easily replaced. In the US, Christian and Muslim missionarys are fairly successful at converting people and breaking up gangs. And non-profit or government officials who give a shit can create better schools and community centers which give potential gang-members another option in life.
Don't go looking for communist intellectuals to do much good in the ghettos though, gangs are materialistic and tribalistic to the bone. But is they think they can exploit communism to increase the own power, they'll wave red flags and call everyone comrade without a second thought; just like world politics, but on a different relative level.




(Edited by KickMcCann at 5:31 am on Jan. 6, 2003)

[BasementAddix]

gangs are for people w/o friends or for people without any type of social structure....

[Pavan Sohal]

well that's was sure insightful...duh man. You don't have to be in a gang to know that.

[BasementAddix]

im just pointing out the obvious (not everyone has common sense...its not that common)...

[ColDFirE]

Here the gang wars is fighted with car bombs. Last year almost every week a car blowed up. at the end we just said 'another audi'. Shooting happens not very often, but when it happens, its big. There was one a few months ago in a storehause 500m away. I don't even heard the shooting, but when I got there... the survivors said that it was abaut smugling. The police couldn't do anything, because the leaders feft to Slovakia. You cross the stateline and you're free.
this is shit.

[mentalbunny]

Quote: from ColDFirE on 11:09 am on Jan. 7, 2003
Here the gang wars is fighted with car bombs. Last year almost every week a car blowed up. at the end we just said 'another audi'. Shooting happens not very often, but when it happens, its big. There was one a few months ago in a storehause 500m away. I don't even heard the shooting, but when I got there... the survivors said that it was abaut smugling. The police couldn't do anything, because the leaders feft to Slovakia. You cross the stateline and you're free.
this is shit.

That sounds really bad. Thanks for your responses guys, it's been really interesting to see what you have to say.

IB4C, I'm glad you liek the topic, I'm trying to find interesting threads for this forum and it's not that easy!

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from BasementAddix on 10:43 pm on Jan. 5, 2003
gangs are for people w/o friends
i must say that i disagree. i knew many people that joined gangs that had pleny of friends. yea, most of their friends were in the gang they were joining, but that is beyond the point. as i said in my previous post, most of the people that i knew that got involved in the gang life were people that grew up amongst the gang life, and had friends they knew since elementary around them the entire time, mostly joining the gangs either with, prior, or after them.