the Israel/Palestina conflict

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

A long time since I actually posted.

Some of my Comrades usually convey my point of view, so I don't have to.

A powerful Political Photograph can be anything that provokes a reaction. Yes, this includes violence. Many of the most powerful photographs of all time have violence at their heart.

Anyway, heres just one.

The repressed people of Palestine have been backed into a corner by the Zionist entity known as Israel. This is the result:-

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~nahm0002/child/baby-suicide.jpg

[Phalanx]

So out of their anger they must kill civilians? That makes no sense.

[Free Palestine]

Originally posted by Chinghis [email protected] 27 2005, 11:52 PM
So out of their anger they must kill civilians? That makes no sense.
That's easy for idiots like you to say when nobody in your family has been shot driving their car. When you have a home that hasn't been bulldozed. When you're allowed to go see the ocean. When you can't be ostensibly jailed and legally tortured for years without trial.

It's easy to say that because when you leave for school, you can be relatively certain that there aren't heavily armed soldiers waiting half way between your street and downtown Middletown at a checkpoint, a soldier with the power to decide whether you can go about your business, and whether you can get home again when you're done.

It's easy to say that when you know that most kids in your country's parents usually aren't shot and that they know sometimes they get to see the ocean.

Try living in a place where water is stolen in the night by bulldozers. Try spending the evening wondering if the walls in your house might suddenly fall inward waking you from your sleep. Have you ever met anyone who's suddenly lost someone to a murderous tank, tower, or armed settler? Is there a giant metal wall hundreds of miles long blocking you from visiting your family or getting work?

I wonder if you'd forgive the world for all the years of your childhood spent existing, just existing, in resistance to the constant stranglehold of the world's fourth largest military - backed by the world's only superpower - in it's attempt to erase you from your home.

Fuck-face.

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

Originally posted by Chinghis [email protected] 27 2005, 11:52 PM
So out of their anger they must kill civilians? That makes no sense.
Attacking civilians? They do not attack Civilians.

The Working- Class are always the true sufferers in War. They are the first to be repressed, and the first to be attacked in case of invasion.

However, "attacking" Civilians? I agree, that is a foolish strategy. After all, the concept of Guerrilla Foco dictates that a Peasant network is essesntial to survival.

However, the situation has gone way beyond that.

The repressed people of Palestine have been forced to resort to such drastic measures. They have not chosen to go them.

Until the Zionist entity leaves the occupied nation of Palestine and leaves US imperialism in its wake, attacks such as this are justified:-

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2005/july/o...cide_bomber.jpg (http://www.ogrish.com/archives/2005/july/ogrish-dot-com-palestinian_suicide_bomber.jpg)

A horrid image.

However, this shows what the Palestinians have been forced to do.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by Free Palestine+Sep 28 2005, 07:29 AM--> (Free Palestine @ Sep 28 2005, 07:29 AM)
Chinghis [email protected] 27 2005, 11:52 PM
So out of their anger they must kill civilians? That makes no sense.
That's easy for idiots like you to say when nobody in your family has been shot driving their car. When you have a home that hasn't been bulldozed. When you're allowed to go see the ocean. When you can't be ostensibly jailed and legally tortured for years without trial.

It's easy to say that because when you leave for school, you can be relatively certain that there aren't heavily armed soldiers waiting half way between your street and downtown Middletown at a checkpoint, a soldier with the power to decide whether you can go about your business, and whether you can get home again when you're done.

It's easy to say that when you know that most kids in your country's parents usually aren't shot and that they know sometimes they get to see the ocean.

Try living in a place where water is stolen in the night by bulldozers. Try spending the evening wondering if the walls in your house might suddenly fall inward waking you from your sleep. Have you ever met anyone who's suddenly lost someone to a murderous tank, tower, or armed settler? Is there a giant metal wall hundreds of miles long blocking you from visiting your family or getting work?

I wonder if you'd forgive the world for all the years of your childhood spent existing, just existing, in resistance to the constant stranglehold of the world's fourth largest military - backed by the world's only superpower - in it's attempt to erase you from your home.

Fuck-face. [/b]
You're right, born into a working-class childhood and bad crime, I don't know how they feel. I don't know how it is to watch cops beat teenagers for merely having lasers. I don't know how it is to witness firsthand a murder. I hate cops, but I wouldn't bomb or kill their children. You may have had a worse upbringing, but I didn't think this was any contest. I can say that I am extremely privileged regardless of my childhood. It was a cakewalk comparitively. But it sounds as though you approve these bombers. Are you saying it's okay to walk into a marketplace and blow yourself up merely because you've been backed into a corner? How do you know that the ones you kill in an attack aren't the ones trying to help you from your oppression? I don't have firsthand experience of the conflict, but I'll be damned if I ever sympathize with those bastards who kill civilians.

[novemba]

Originally posted by Chinghis [email protected] 27 2005, 06:52 PM
So out of their anger they must kill civilians? That makes no sense.
who said they were civilians? if you live in israel, youre a zionist. otherwise, youd be collaborating with the anti-zionists AND THEYD KNOW NOT TO BLOW YOU UP.


Fuck-face.

[Free Palestine]

Who's murdering civilians? You are laying the blame on the wrong people again. The millions of Palestinians who are forced into miserable enclaves where they are denied adequate water to develop their societies have nothing to do with the terrorism you speak of. Those acts are carried out by militant groups who may draw sympathy from the population but still act on their own. The people you are blaming are innocents caught in the middle of the conflict. Stop blaming the victims.


Are you saying it's okay to walk into a marketplace and blow yourself up merely because you've been backed into a corner?

I don't condone or agree with it, but it is understandable. It is understandable from the point of view of a human being who feels himself being crowded out of life and all of his surroundings, who sees his parents, sisters, and brothers suffering, being injured and killed. He wants to do something to strike back. That can be understood as the act of a truly desperate person trying to free himself from unjustly imposed conditions. Living in an enviornment so hopeless and unbearable, that death is perceived as the only escape. It's not something I agree with, but at least I can understand it. It certainly does not "make no sense." That is something only someone who hasn't looked at the horrendous economic and political conditions under which the Palestinians have been living under for generations would say.

I was lucky, I actually had money to buy water when the army destroyed wells, and, of course, I had the option of leaving. Police brutality is one thing, it's another thing to spend an evening wondering if the walls of your home might suddenly fall inward waking you from your sleep from a bulldozer. It's another thing to live surrounded by murderous towers, tanks, armed "settlements" and now a giant metal wall. It's another thing when you don't even know any children who have ever existed without tank-shell holes in their home walls and the towers of an occupying army surveying them constantly from the near horizons. Occupation. Do you know what that means? It means living under the gun. It means land stolen, homes destroyed, culture denied. It means that the Israeli government and army dictate the lives of the Palestinian people. That is, when they're not killing untold numbers of Palestinians, driving people from their homes, preventing ambulances from picking up the wounded, and imposing a reign of terror.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 29 2005, 01:26 AM
Who's murdering civilians? You are laying the blame on the wrong people again. The millions of Palestinians who are forced into miserable enclaves where they are denied adequate water to develop their societies have nothing to do with the terrorism you speak of. Those acts are carried out by militant groups who may draw sympathy from the population but still act on their own. The people you are blaming are innocents caught in the middle of the conflict. Stop blaming the victims.

No, I'm targeting the suicide bombers, not the millions of Palestinians that live in disparity. Who ever said I was collectively blaming all Palestinians? I blame the terrorist groups and the Israeli military for the conflict, not any one side. The photo was one glorifying the suicide bombers, so I disagreed with the message.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 01:10 AM
who said they were civilians? if you live in israel, youre a zionist. otherwise, youd be collaborating with the anti-zionists AND THEYD KNOW NOT TO BLOW YOU UP.


I always thought Zionist meant excepting Israel's right to exist. But anyone living in Israel is supposedly a zionist? Should they all leave now, what's your point?

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by novemba+Sep 28 2005, 09:10 PM--> (novemba @ Sep 28 2005, 09:10 PM)
Chinghis [email protected] 27 2005, 06:52 PM
So out of their anger they must kill civilians? That makes no sense.
who said they were civilians? if you live in israel, youre a zionist. otherwise, youd be collaborating with the anti-zionists AND THEYD KNOW NOT TO BLOW YOU UP.


Fuck-face. [/b]
Dude, this is just dumb. Living there doesn't mean you're automatically a Zionist. I guess living here in the USA means I am a nationalist war mongering prick, or living in Nazi Germany meant I am a Nazi?

No.

I don't necessarily agree with blowing yourself up in a market. But do I understand it as a way to get out from under this pain and oppression, as well as killing citizens of the country that has inflicted it upon you? You goddamned bet.