Starting "new" groups.

[The Feral Underclass]

Why do people try and start new national groups and why do they never work?

To be honest, I think its because people want to become active but have no experience in what that means. I also think that these "new groups"make abstract demands like "bringing democracy to the people" that have no real baring on anything.

I think school groups are the best way to start something, if you want to get yourself and other people active. You can always get help from larger organisations or even affiliate with them. Also the demands are easier to relate to people. School issues for example/anti-teacher/anti-war stuff.

Trying to start a national group, on your own with no experience in any group at all chanting slogans of "bring the revolution to the people" is not going to work. Ever.

[Donnie]

I think either starting local groups or as you said school groups and then federating them into an organisation is the best way to do things because it builds up a mass network of autonomous local groups that can then be federated into an organisation.

This sort of tactic provides a form of resistance within local working class communities. The heart of the struggle is in the working communities not in the parties etc.

[Led Zeppelin]

You're right, it's a waste of valuable time, I suggest joining an already existing party and work your way in there.

With luck you can be elected to the CC in 15 years.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

New groups are often formed by people that broke from other groups and can't find any other group to join with the same ideology or stance on important issues as them.

[Insomniac]

Why do people try and start new national groups and why do they never work?

To be honest, I think its because people want to become active but have no experience in what that means. I also think that these "new groups"make abstract demands like "bringing democracy to the people" that have no real baring on anything.

I think school groups are the best way to start something, if you want to get yourself and other people active. You can always get help from larger organisations or even affiliate with them. Also the demands are easier to relate to people. School issues for example/anti-teacher/anti-war stuff.

Trying to start a national group, on your own with no experience in any group at all chanting slogans of "bring the revolution to the people" is not going to work. Ever.

Well there is one problem with that statement for me and many other people, not everyone on this forum is in education or school.

Im 22 and work.

Many others on RL are in the same boat as me, although I will admit to RL having a LARGE proprtion of it's members in education as a lot of RL members are teenagers.

I do NOT have a 100% or even 85% ideological/policy agreement with ANY far-left group in Britain and I cannot see any group that is for me, despite the fact that I looked on EVERY website of every far-left group listed on broadleft.org for the UK.

What is your advice for someone like me then?

[novemba]

to be honest, I think its because people want to become active but have no experience in what that means

correct. example: me.


school groups are the best way to start something

any type of learning or study group is useful, not just school groups. hold meetings and hang up flyers and discuss anti-capitalism and destroy the lies about anarchism and communism. also, you can encourage people to join groups, show them whats out there.


the heart of the struggle is in the working communities not in the parties

so join a union if you haven't already.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what is your advice for someone like me then?

[Donnie]

Many others on RL are in the same boat as me, although I will admit to RL having a LARGE proprtion of it's members in education as a lot of RL members are teenagers.
Does that stop you from organising a local autonomous group in you're area that works with the working class communities, then once you have found an organisation that you agree with why not federate you're group into it?

I’m not at school but have managed to organise something. :P

[Insomniac]

What do you mean by an 'autonomous group, working in local working class communities'?

Strike committees?

Soup/food centres for the poor?

Squats?

Please elaborate.

Also, if you don't mind sharing your experiences on RL, could you tell me what you do?

Im not really an 'active' leftist, as I have become disillusioned with political actions like protests as they do nothing to bring about change.

Im sort of going through a crisis in what I should do and what I should believe in, being a leftist is a depressing experience at times as we never make any progress, only get halfway there only to see it fail.

[novemba]

autonomous group, working in local working class communities

any sort of group working towards the advancement of the revolution by holding seminars and distributing media.


strike committees

self-explanitory? committees that decide why/when/where/how to strike.


soup/food centres for the poor

also self-explanitory? set-up food distribution for those who can't affford food.


squats

a collection of people living in an abandoned structure and working together in order to live together.


im not really an 'active' leftist, as I have become disillusioned with political actions like protests as they do nothing to bring about change

no change is gonna happen overnight. we cannot force change. when the people are ready for the revolution, the revolution will happen. they just don't realize theyre getting screwed, or theyre not proverbially getting screwed hard enough. all we can do as active revolutionaries is destory ignorance and work towards education and community autonomy. actions are carried out for many reasons, some of the more dominant being: 1)draw attention to our ideals and enlighten people, 2) remind the state that no matter what it does to quell the opposition to their class repression, opposition DOES and WILL always exist...this IS class war people..., and to 3) fight the state in what minor ways we can without alienating ourselves from the people. personally i think we should promote 'self-defence' in the black panther fashion, but maybe thats just me.


im sort of going through a crisis in what I should do and what I should believe in, being a leftist is a depressing experience at times as we never make any progress, only get halfway there only to see it fail.

I was in your same postition until recently. I'm frustrated. I wanna smash the state just as bad as you do, but if were fighting for a genuine revolution we have to do it the right way. For example, if you're baking a cake, and you don't have the amount of flour required in the recipe, if you continue the cake will be ruined. That cake is our revolution. If you wanna speed up the process of revolution in order for it to happen in our lifetimes, the only non-counterevolutionary thing you can do is eliminate common misconceptions about anarchism/communism and inform the people on whats going on. Education is the first weapon to be fired in a true revolution. Be patient, be persistant.

Starting a Learning Group in 3 Easy Steps

1. Find a meeting place where you can hold meetings/seminars/whatever. Distribute flyers, hang flyers, draw people in to your group, catch their attention.

2. Draw up a outline, or a ciriculum for discussion, and when the group gets to size, revise it democratically.
DO EVERYTHING DEMOCRATICALLY. THAT MEANS VOTE...DIRECTLY.

3. Encourage everyone to join a Union, hold actions, and recruit more people.

rinse. lather. repeat.

[Insomniac]

November, no need to explain those concepts to me, I knew what they were, I was asking Donnie, if those things were what he meant by 'autonomous actions', as I have no idead what that term means.

[novemba]

oh shit my fault, eh maybe it will help someone else... :blink:

did they other shit help though?

[Insomniac]

I don't know, Im in one of those phases of my life where Im just questioning everything in my life and my lifes very purpose.

I even have one part of my mind that thinks why bother with liberating anyone, that not one human is worthy of my time or effort and that I should just live for myself and work to only ever better myself socially and financially. In other words, give up politics and just live for my own self interest.

But there is no one part of my mind that has set my mindset as a whole, that Im only confused and very despressed, near suicidal, at the moment.

[novemba]

no point in ending your life when you can always spend it trying to change what you think needs to be changed.

no worries man. non-existance doesn't sound too tasty to me...

[Insomniac]

Well Im one of those who thinks if you do not have a meaning or purpose to your life, stop living!

A life is only worth living if your going to do something with it, I have no idea what to do with mine and Im just so lost at the moment.

[Nachie]

Insomniac, I'm out of my teens, out of school, and - unfortunately - working (though I'm inbetween jobs at the moment).

Autonomous actions such as any of the ones suggested/described above are all valid examples of what someone could do to get started. In your case, it's important to view struggle as a personal attempt at preserving one's emotional health in the face of an irrational, exploitative society. Therefore, it's important for you to take on projects immediately liberating to your own life - so a squat might be a better choice for you than union organizing, for instance.

The primary crisis being faced today by the radical culture is how to unite these personal/regional struggles into a broad recognizable front (a gestalt is the word I like to use) that is more than just the sum of its parts... In other words, we have a continuous urge to form massive national and even international organizations, but usually fail because more effort gets put into making it exist on paper than in real life.

I'm not going to hide my sympathies - I'm an active member in the Red & Anarchist Action Network (RAAN). What makes this network a little unique is that it tries to unite these independent struggles without monopolizing control over any of them. First and foremost we preserve the autonomy of what each individual member, cell, and collective is doing. Yes, we have principles that set guidelines like "no Leninists", but the majority of them are not restrictive, they're definitive so as to create a general sense of what we all agree on so that a perpetual debate can be skipped, and we can go straight to cooperation.

So using the above example, you could use your squat to give free housing to others who are involved in union organizing, and then they in turn could assist you with whatever resources come their way (if they're organizing with plumbers, maybe they could get someone to come turn on the water in your squat, for instance). This concept is called mutual aid, and it's the only logical thing around which for us to organize. For it to work, we need to stop conceiving of ourseleves as an organization (or organizations) and see ourselves as a movement. Obviously, I agree with the need to make an acronym (or whatever) to operate under, but what's more important is the way we're going to be operating under it. That's what RAAN's all about.

[novemba]

i don't think anyone minds nachie, but uh, your posts are getting close to spam

maybe you could be more constructive about your independent beliefs instead throwing RAAN in every two secs...or maybe im just stupid...nvm...i didn't really mean it but i think it need to be said so dont hold me accountable (look i pulled a karl rove! :lol: )

edit: typo

[Insomniac]

Im not too keen on the idea of me squatting myself. I can easily afford to rent and I personally would stick with that.

I cannot live in a house/flat without hot water, electricity, gas etc... like most squats are.

Plus Im NOT an anarchist. I just thought you had the imperssion that I was.

But at the moment, I really am on the verge of giving up on politics altogether.

Leninism was a failure and anarchism has not even ever made it to the point of even near success.

Anarchism IMO will never break out of it's small circle of people and Leninism has shown itself to be a nightmare that cannot even sustain itself.

Plus I keep asking this one small question, WHY SHOULD I CARE FOR OTHERS OR WORK TO FREE THEM?

I personally now see the human race as a lost cause and humans not worthy of saving or improving.

Im one of those people who would pobably rejoce at the news of a huge asteriod about to hit earth and wipe us out.

Maybe humans will never change and therefore why should we waste our lives on saving them, freeing them, improving them???

I really am lost and see no future in anything at the moment.

I so wish I was dead, but Im to much of a coward to end myself, I tried once before but somehow I couldn't do it.

[Nachie]

Novemba: I apologize, I'll keep the references to the relevant threads (and my sig, of course ;))

I do think there was a use in mentioning it here though, what with the apparent rejection of a broad organization in favor of individual activity - I'm trying to reconcile the two, but of course with an emphasis on the latter.

Insomniac: I didn't assume you were an anarchist, though I am glad to hear you're not a Leninist, either. I'm certainly not an anarchist and never have been, but do consider myself to be an "anti-political" communist. This means that not only am I opposed to participating in the disenfranchisement of electoral politics, but also to organizing in the traditional methods through protests, meetings, - what this leaves, of course, is the little changes we can make in our immediate lives which will hopefully coalesce into a healthy culture if not an immediate "revolution".

You ask "WHY SHOULD I CARE FOR OTHERS OR WORK TO FREE THEM?". There are two answers, one more useful than the other. The first answer is that as a resident of a developed country, the very conditions of your existence are based on a perpetual genocide and therefore from a moral standpoint, you need to reject those conditions or at least use the privilege to build alternatives (I myself don't believe in morality per se, but I think you know what I mean). The more useful answer is that you really shouldn't care about other people, you should care about YOURSELF.

"Stop dying for your revolution and start living for it" - Anon

True, most "leftist depression" in the global North probably comes from realizing that our privilege is based on systematic misery/exploitation and there seems to be little we can do to change this, but towards the immediate goal of our own psychological survival we can at least try to regulate or diminish the extent to which capitalism dominates our existence. Breaking out of the housing/job market is just one option, which obviously you find distateful. The most immediate alternative for someone like yourself (IE someone with a job) is to realize that you're making a shitload of money relative to what an unemployed radical is making, and therefore you could put that money towards community projects and speed up their chance of success. I've been suicidal before but the trick is to find an even temporary amount of good you can do with whatever life energy you might still have. Remember, we're all "waiting for somebody else to throw themselves on the churning gears".

Oh, one last thing: You say anarchism has never even come close to success. I would point out the experience of the CNT-FAI in the Spanish Revolution, particularly in Barcelona 1936, and the Makhnovists in the Ukraine, who successfully beat off Trotsky's "Red Army" once but were slaughtered the second time. This is of course to say nothing of the various communist revolts throughout history - the diggers, Paris Commune, Russia 1905, Germany 1918, Hungary 1956, East Germany somewhere inbetween there (forget the date), France 1968, etc. None of these uprisings were the creations of self-defined "anarchist" groups, but insofar as they were expressions of the communist tendency towards anti-capitalism, autonomy, and self-organization, they can also be held up as historical precedents to the validity of anarchist ideas.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 28 2005, 07:27 AM
School issues for example/anti-teacher/anti-war stuff.
Why are you anti-teacher?