Cuba and the internet

[peaccenicked]

http://radio.oneworld.net/index.php?fuseac...n=audio.listAll (http://radio.oneworld.net/index.php?fuseaction=audio.listAll)

The fourth one down is an informative radio broadcast.

It could be both.

[Corvus Corax]

Perhaps they don't want Cuban citizens corrupted by capitalist web sites?

[Larissa]

I'd like to share with you my husband's site. www.cubagrande.com (Spanish only for the moment) where you can listen to Cuban radios and watch Cuban TV on-line.

Hope you enjoy it!

[Panamarisen]

Nice site, Larissa (and welcome to the Forum)!

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Panamarisen]

Quote: from peaccenicked on 3:14 am on Dec. 26, 2002
http://radio.oneworld.net/index.php?fuseac...n=audio.listAll (http://radio.oneworld.net/index.php?fuseaction=audio.listAll)

The fourth one down is an informative radio broadcast.

It could be both.



To keep up the ideals of the Revolution is not easy, so maybe the Cuban Government is afraid the people get brainwashed with the "advantages" of capitalist way of life.
Even so, guess Cuba will choice an open internet at the end. I think that would be good, among other things because it would prove Cubans´concern and support for the Revolution.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Corvus Corax]

THink about it, if the Cubans had internet, the USA would take full advantage of the situation and try to strategically place brainwashing material to the Cuban populace.

[Larissa]

Thanks for your welcome Panamerisen.

Corvus: I lived in Cuba in 1998 and they DO have internet. Mostly at work or Universities, a few at home. But they are connected with the rest of the world and they DO receive a lot of Capitalist rubbish and they fight it back.

Actually, my husband is a Cuban journalist and I met him through Internet.-

We both run some solidrity sites, like the one we do together with the Cuban Emabssy in Argentina.
(http://www.amigosdecuba.com.ar)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Larissa, I heard that they also receive much American propaganda through TV broadcasted from Miami. Is this true? What do they do about it? Are many Cubans against Castro? Are Cubans oppressed from dissagreeing with the govenrment? I've heard much from both sides, what do you say? What are Cuban's oppinions of Che? Are they an oppen-minded people?

[PunkRawker677]

Larissa beat me to it. I was just about to jump out and tell everyone that cuba DEFINITLY does have the internet. How do i know? Well, i've used it for one, and my cousin talks to me every night on ICQ.

[Larissa]

Victor,

Because of the short geographical distance between Cuba and the US (Florida), they are able to receive some TV channel signs, but TV commercials are not broadcasted through the Cuban TV, they see a lot of "action" movies and typical yankee films (Rambo, etc.)

I had the chance to live in Cuba as cubans live, not as a tourist, no privileges at all.

People who do not agree with the Government, speak openly and are NOT punished or whatsoever.

In fact, they gather around, hold meetings and certainly, don't go to jail. One of the most "popular" (made popular by CNN) movements is the Varela project.

They DO say whatever they want. And they DON't go to prision.

Also, they have democratic elections. The point is that the PCC (Cuban Communist Party) is far larger that the few tiny other political parties in Cuba.

They love Che, they follow his principles and his thoughts are taught in every school. Children say every morning at school "We Want to be like Che"

I have to necessarily add something. Cuba is just like any other county in the world, with people who have traveled, due to their jobs, and have a broad mind, and others who have never ever left the island and sometimes think that foreigners are millonaires, just because many tourists spend lots of dollars during their vacations.

Furthermore, I used to have some neighbours who thought that in my country (Argentina) - because it was a Capitalist country - there were no public schools or public hospitals at all.

As you will see, most Cubans have a high level of education, but still there are others who do not manage certain crtitical information.

And, like it happens in other countries, people who sail in a self-made boat to Miami, are those who lack of both education and information. So, when they reach the US they are absolutely convinced that they have reached some sort of paradise. (Until they crash into reality)

Most of the times, the specific "cuban" problem is that when cubans reach Miami or Key West, they are WELCOMED by the US special immigration policies that protect cubans in US territory. This way, many of them never get to realize what to be a homeless in the US is like.

(I lived myself in the US some years because my facther was a professor at the University of Michigan)

I still prefer Cuba 100%

[Dhul Fiqar]

The internet here in China is also heavily censored, and it sucks ass. It raises suspiciouns as to what it is that the government doesn't want people to know, thus givind credibility to counter-revolutionary elements. IMHO that is.

--- G.

[CommunismRATM]

Cubans leave Cuba cause they dont want to live under a totalitarian system

[truthaddict11]

Larissa, what is the literacy rate in Cuba?

[Larissa]

truthaddict11,

Honestly, I don't have the exact datum, but I'll try to get it for you.

CommunismRATM,

Most leave for many other reasons.

[Larissa]

Literacy: 96%
Illiteracy: 4%

[Bolschewik]

Larissa,

I enjoyed reading this whole thread, you provided very useful information, I hope you stay around on this forum.

[Larissa]

My pleasure indeed!

I truly enjoy these forums.

Thanks Bolschewik :-)


Quote: from Bolschewik on 1:22 pm on Dec. 27, 2002
Larissa,

I enjoyed reading this whole thread, you provided very useful information, I hope you stay around on this forum.

[Panamarisen]

I agree with Bolschewick, Larissa. Even more, I think someone like you, having first-hand experiences in Cuba, is really necessary here in Che-lives.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Larissa]

Just to add another "two cents"...

My husband is Cuban. Since 1999 he's been living in Argentina, but he travels regularly to Cuba to visit his family. I think he has been to his country about 5 or 6 times in 4 years. He never had a single problem, neither traveling out of Cuba, nor going back to his country.

Just another sample against the shameful propaganda that says "People in Cuba are not allowed to leave the country" - Big lies!

However, what is absolutely true is that not many cubans can afford an airplane ticket, so they mostly travel for professional reasons or because a foreigner invites them and pays for all their expenses.

By the way, did you know that after Argentina collapsed last year, we are now required to pay costly visas to other travel abroad? For instance, a year ago, no visa was required to travel to the US, and today you have to pay U$D 100 and most tourist visas are being rejected. While if an Argentine citizen plans to travel to Spain, he/she has to show 30 euros per day according to the length of his/her stay.

I can say we are "imprisoned" then :-)

[Pavan Sohal]

Larissa: What you are doing is not helping the situation. We don't need kids to be all utopian about everything, it just ensures that one day they will turn conservative when they discover that both sides have been lying.

Cuba does boast many things that even first world nations cannot, but make no mistake, it is still very much a third world nation. This may not be entirely as a result of the "totalitarian" (it may not be as totalitarian as Myanmar, or North Korea, but it is more than other similar nations); in India the government has much more control over the people, despite being the largest democracy on Earth, and having a strong constitution. It's really the fact that Cuba and India are poor that make the measures necessary. The Cuban government enforces strict regulations upon citizens that would be considered totalitarian in any western democracy...it's not as bad as many would be led to beleive by CNN, but it is much worse than what Larissa claims.

[Larissa]

Pavan,

I have mentioned before some real problems due to the lack of information in Cuba regarding the rest of the Latin American countries, like when some people think that ONLY in Cuba you have access to public schools and hospitals, and it doesn't happen that way in Capitalist countries, which is not true. But, let's not blame the government, because they din't say that sort of things.

What you say: "It's really the fact that Cuba and India are poor that make the measures necessary." is maybe the main point.

Cuba is "first world" in terms of having legal divorce or legal abortion, and in terms of high level of University preparation that most cubans have access to.

But, it is (no doubt) a poor country, because it has not many resources (almost none at all) and it depended (for a long time) on the URSS.

They are on their own now. They get some oil from Venezuela, but we are all aware what Chavez is facing now, so he can hardly send oil to Cuba these days, and that doesn't help much the cuban economy. Particularly now, that they are living on tourism mostly.

What I do say, is that cubans are NOT imprisoned in their own country, that is a big lie. The US Affairs office in Cuba (a tall modern bulding) is placed right in the center of Havanna, and Cubans who want to leave to the US just go there and apply for the visa lottery every year, anyone can see the large queues. And the cuban government doesn't arrest people for doing that.

That is a fact, and I couldn't believe it until I saw it myself because I was brought up full of propaganda against socialism, etc. I was raised in a middle-class family. The first time I saw a poster of Che in Buenos Aires was back in 1996 (I was about 7) two years after he was shot in Bolivia. I asked my father who Che was and he answered "a crazy communist murderer but don't worry, he's been caught & killed already" This is what I would call a dammm lie. Communism has been seen as a "monster", the "enemy". When the real enemy lies within Capitalism!

I don't think the Cuban government is such a lier as many want to show. There is a lot of confusion and the younger generations don't really get the "idea" of the revolution of 1959. They can't even imagine what a righty military government is like. I can tell. It's just like hell.

Some cuban teenagers are not even concerned about politics, they don't care about socialism, but they look forward to getting some "Nike" tennis shoes instead!

Others are very intelligent, they don't buy any sh..t, no matter where it comes from, and know exactly what the advantages and disadvantages of their country are. And many of them fight the huge bureaucracy they face every day.

Most of the Capitalist propaganda comes from their own relatives whoi live in the US or other countries, and when they go back home they take along lots of presents from the "first world". And young guys just go mad!

Cuba it's kind of a "surrealistic" place. You have to live there at least on month and see things with your own eyes to believe or not believe what you hear outside.

[Panamarisen]

Pavan Sohal,

Larissa is not claiming anything. She´s speaking thru experience. I think that´s clear enough.
And any individual that I know that hopes for justice and has visited Cuba tells me the same Larissa is saying.

BTW, Larissa, I´m really sorry to hear about it, being Argentina the great country it could/should be, being a country where so many people used to read books as almost no other country did...


HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Larissa]

And Pavan, Utopia is just that: "utopic", "idealistic" not real life at all.

[Larissa]

Panamerisan,

Argentina is a clear example of a nation being destroyed by all of those who supported Capitalism as an evil promise to enter what it was supposed to be "Fisrt World" - Since 1983, we have had democratic elections and we voted rubbish. So, unfortunatelly, there's no one else to blame but ourselves.

The left is so divided (in Arg.) that a democratic socialism is very far from becoming a true possibility in my country, and that is sad. If we don't gather together, there is litte we can do.

It's a matter of agreeing in a few essential issues. But everyone wants to be the "Movie Star".

[Pavan Sohal]

Some of the controls may have been relaxed, and the initiatives may appear more progressive, but the government of the day is still very much disjointed with reality. The massive bureaucracy, common in many third world administrations, pushes forward motions that do not reflect the true needs of the people, and interactions between the state and the individual are always rough. You can't expect the youth of the nation to grow up in respect of the revolution, if it stopped acheiving anything new 30 years ago.

[Larissa]

Yes, Pavan, I fully understand what you mean.

Yet, part of the problem of not understanding and respecting the Revolution or socialism (youngsters in Cuba, at least) it's because the system is not the Utopia everyone wished it to be. It struggles to survive in order not to be buried by capitalism brought by tourists.

For instance, in Cuba (in general) people earn an average salary of 10 to 15 dollars a month, but some cubans who work in tourism make up to 50 U$D a DAY in tips! - Plus, you have a shopping mall on Carlos III Avenue (meant for cubans who have dollars, not for tourists) where you can buy DVD's or Huge TVs, video recorder, etc. at international prices.

The problem is: in view of their very poor economy, thay had to open their doors to tourism and allow Cuban relatives leaving abroad to send money (USD) to their families in the Island. So, you have people who live on 10 USD a month and the "new richs". They are trying to "control" things as much as possible in order to avoid such differences, but that is not an easy task.

Other things that are changing but still need some time to accomodate is that once (back in the 60's) people couldn't hear Thet Beatles, for it meant "diversionismo ideológico" or a counter-revolutionary act, and today you have a John Lennon statue place at one of the main parks.

Times change and everyone has to adapt. And in this sense this is a "disjoint" from reality. People don't need a Lennon statue, they need toilet paper or soap.

Also, what was once considered a crime (to have US currency) today is quite common. They have the cuban peso (about 28 pesos = 1 dollar) plus the cuban convertible peso (for tourists 1 dollar = 1 peso) and the well-known green dollar bills everywhere you go.

This might be shocking for a socialist country, but they have no other choice for their economy to survive and still they try to rescue the most important values of socialism and mankind, adn fight back capitalism.

And yes, they do have a painful bureaucracy.

[Pavan Sohal]

Ultimately, they can't stay like that forever. The revolution is going nowhere, receding in fact. Without other socialist countries to trade with, Cuba's economy depends on Canadian and British tourists. People would rather have food, than be equally hungry. There is no justification any more for a lack of free elections, the dictatorship of the proletariat was only intended by Marx to change the order of society, to which end it has failed (unfortunately). In fact I suspect that Fidel is not even a true Marxist, he just looks upon Cuba as his child, and Marxism as the tool to keep it perpetually in his grasp.

[Miguel]

I don´t beleve the essential problem lies in the need for free elections. What Cuba need is an economi to move with, an economi that puts the averege cuban in a position where he can dedicate his time to be politically active and not finding money so he/she can pay for food and house. As in so many devoloping countries exploatation and represive domination keeps it from developing a free democratic system, in other worlds if the western world (USA in this case) would let the country alone it could have the time and money to develope itself, the working class would benefit from its own work and not be robbed from it. In Cubas case I beleve that its up to the US to let go of the strangulation of the Cuban export-inport market, only then can Cuba grow into something, and I think just as Larissa and Panamarisen that Fidel is just trying to combat the ever pressuring capitalism, hes afraid that if he lets go, Cuba will go back to what it was on Batistas time, a corrupt lap-dog under the imperialistic might of the gringos...

[Larissa]

Miguel is right.

You can check this site: http://www.cubacentral.com/petition/
and sign a petition to end the embargo.

"End the embargo. Stop the ban on travel. Promote real reconciliation between people of the United States and Cuba. Have a cigar (if that’s your thing). Help us end a policy that punishes the people of Cuba and America."

Fidel always wanted to be recognized and respected by the US as an independent nation.

What's the sense of keeping the embargo?? Stephen Spielberg said the embargo against Cuba is ridiculous considering that the US trades with China.

[Miguel]

www.cubacentral.com - gives a good briefing on Cuban history

It´s geting clearer all the time, that the US policy cant be defended, trying to do this by declaring no-cooperative states to be evil dictatorships in media works on the vast mass of peple in western soceity. But it´s not hard to see the hipocracy. Why do you think the US has this aggresive policy against the Cuban goverment and not the Chinese?
Since the end of WWII the "communist threat" has been acceptable as a moraly justification (by the capitalist sphere) for wathever decision the US goverment took may that be the Vietnam War or the Cuban embargo.
It is written in a note datet to the Kennedy-administration that the US based its embrgo (not to talk about "Bay of Pigs" or the assasination of Ernesto Guevara by the CIA) on the fact that Cuba was a communist nation and its example and conextion with the Soviet-state was of a negative influense on nerby nations.
But then the wall fell (thats the Berlin wall). Now the global communism wasn´t a "threat", but the fact remained, Cuba stands as a symbol of what can be achieved if the people carries a revolucion to destroy the represive state and counter the american exploatation, so the US has to continue with its embargo but under a new reason. Now they claim that this anti-american state leader (Fidel Castro) is an evil dictator and therefore must be undermined by represive actions.
China on the other hand doesnt encourege its surronding nations to develope a communist state, with the exeption of North Korea most nations are under western policy. But as I mentioned before, South America and its exploted resources leave the working class to admire this historical moment, when the people beat the gringos. Its up to us to keep the constant revolucion alive.

[Pete]

Wow. This has been an amazing read! Thank you Larissa and everyone else. An eye opener to say the least. I knew that Cuba had better schools and hostipals then we do in Canada, but I did not know that their litercy rates rivaled those of Puritan New England in the 17th Century. Or of the free speech option, which is slowly being strangled in the Untited $tate$, and to a less extend here in Canada.

It has been one of my goals for a while, I do not know how long, to learn spanish and visit Cuba to live there for a period of time. Too see what it is really like.

I thank you for the insight:)

[Pavan Sohal]

Cuba does not have better schools or hospitols than Canada. Canada's facilities are second only to the Japanese, in the world.

[Pete]

You think way to highly of our schools and hostiples. Especially with the current move for privization of both in almost every province, and the soon to be realized (I will cry on this day) union of the PC and CA parties. The left is dying. Our reputation is not deserved.

[redstar2000]

Larissa, I want to echo CrazyPete's sentiments: this has been indeed an AMAZING read and I very much hope you will post a LOT on this board. :)

As to Pavan Sohal's remarks concerning "free elections" in Cuba, it should be remembered just what a free election IS to the capitalist class: it's an election THEY CAN BUY! :cool:

[Larissa]

Certainly. Buy or steal, like the shameful elections that placed Bushyguy where he is now.


Quote: from redstar2000 on 2:34 am on Dec. 31, 2002

... it should be remembered just what a free election IS to the capitalist class: it's an election THEY CAN BUY! :cool: