Where do i start?

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

My friend told me about communism and leftist sounded interesting got any links for some good reads,about what is a leftist and stuff like that thanks.

BTW im 14 be nice:)


Badsanta170.

[Wiesty]

Read the communist manifesto, by karl marx, its suppose to be great, im reading the john lee anderson bio right now so i dont have time to read the manifesto. Either way its a good book to read to learn about the idealology.

heres a good link on marxism
http://www.comcen.com.au/%7Emarcn/redflag/.../hmw/index.html (http://www.comcen.com.au/%7Emarcn/redflag/archive/harman/hmw/index.html)

umight be able to find the communist manifesto online, google it

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

thanks wiesty, see ya tommorw at school :P


P.S i really go to school with him.


I found the communist manifesto thanks.

[Led Zeppelin]

Wiesty is the last person you want to take advise on Communism from. :P

Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm)

That's the first book I read.

[Connolly]

And Marxism-Lininism would be the second last person to listen to if you want to learn what real Marxism is.

Ignore and disregard any Maoist, Leninist, and Stalinist rubbish as this will put you on the wrong course towards finding out about true Marxism. If you were to follow these ridiculous, unmaterialist personality cults you would eventually lose faith in Marxism by the age of about 25, hence the term "maturing with politics" leading you to join some Labour party or right wing party, just as so many "ExMarxists" have done. You see the problem they had is that they didnt understand Marxism in the first place, getting swept up in all this childish revolutionary fantasy, after a few years they find that all they have believed in just isnt happening and begin to polarize towards the right. However, get off on the right footing and its scientific and logical reasoning will give you a better understanding about events happening around you. I will list some Marxist topics you should read up on and understand. Starting with the most important

1. Materialism Nothing remains the same, constant societal, technological, physiological, mental, material changes


2. Means of Production (My Fav :D ) Methods of Manufacture and agriculture. Structure and actions of society determined by technological discoveries. Previous evolutionary examples should be learned in order to understand.

3. Class struggle Natural Mechanism used by humanity to advance the means of production, therefore changing the structure of society. Note, this cannot be forced ie. Leninism, Maoism, Stalinism. The correct material conditions must be present ie. Technology, YET TO BE SEEN.

Once you get a grasp of each of the top three, combine them to get an accurate idea of what Marxism is all about. Some easy to follow and explanatory texts I would recommend would be as follows, in no particular order:

1. Socialiam: Utopian and Scientific FE
2. Introduction to the dialectics of nature FE
3. The origin of the family, private property and the state FE
4. Communist Manifesto KM

It can be mind boggling and difficult to understand at first, with loads of questions that you just cant find the answer to. But once you get a simple grasp of one bit the rest just falls into place.

Dont forget, dont get brain washed by all those personality cults, it will only serve to cloud your understanding.

[Hiero]

Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism

That is a hard book to read for first read. Economics is something you may want to stay away from now. I have to re read that book, when i first read it i got the basic idea. After a Political Economy class wiht my party i understood it a bit better. But other stuff from Lenin is a bit easier, he has a good style of writing.

Also some of Stalin's works is ok, like on Dialectical Materialism. It is advised by even Trot parties.

Read the Manifesto, you probally wont understand it all to start with, but it gives you the basic idea. It is also inspiring

Check out your Communist Parties for beginginers works, thats the best thing to do, i should of done that when i started.

[Connolly]

Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism

That is a hard book to read for first read. Economics is something you may want to stay away from now.

What advice do you expect from a twit like M-L? <_<

[Led Zeppelin]

And Marxism-Lininism would be the second last person to listen to if you want to learn what real Marxism is.


In this sentence "real Marxism" is technology fetishism, if you don&#39;t want to be ridiculed by other Marxists don&#39;t go down this road.


2. Means of Production (My Fav )

Correction; "My fetish".


Dont forget, dont get brain washed by all those personality cults, it will only serve to cloud your understanding.

I don&#39;t give a shit about "personality cults", therefore your "theory" is worthless.


What advice do you expect from a twit like M-L?

I read that book first because I was able to buy it first, read whichever book interests you, don&#39;t listen to this technology fetishist.

His lengthy posts are filled with Marxist rhetoric, but are in reality filled with anti-Marxist crap, lengthy crap is still crap.

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

thanks for all the replies some of the stuff is confusing <_< :( :blink:

[Zingu]

"The Principles of Communism" I think is more useful and clear than "The Communist Manifesto".

Then, I would probably read "Socialism: Utopian and Scientific"

You can read it all here: www.marxists.org .

[workersunity]

I would also check out the Marx Engels reader, it has a bunch load of marx&#39;s and engel&#39;s work

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 01:33 PM
thanks for all the replies some of the stuff is confusing <_< :( :blink:
It takes time :)

I would suggest:

The state and revolution

Imperialism: The highest stage of capitalism

[Wiesty]

Originally posted by Marxism&#045;[email protected] 23 2005, 01:52 AM
Wiesty is the last person you want to take advise on Communism from. :P

Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm)

That&#39;s the first book I read.
are we gonna have to get into another stalin debate?

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

Fight&#33; fight&#33; fight&#33;

just kidding :P

[Karl Marx's Camel]

are we gonna have to get into another stalin debate?

Yes, we are, when you are posting comments like that.

[Led Zeppelin]

are we gonna have to get into another stalin debate?

What did my post have to do with Stalin?

It seems like you want Stalin debates, I already said to the Trotskyists in the "Stalin fascist" thread that I don&#39;t feel like debating Stalin, I have done enough of that.

[Wiesty]

because ur remark that i was the last to see about communism was only implied due to my arguments in the stalin thread, that u dissagree with.

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

this is off topic ,i asked for help not being bickering. =D <_<

[Jimmie Higgins]

I would also suggest reading some history books to get an idea of theory in practice or what led activists or marxists to champion certain theories at certain times and how this effected events.

- read the manifesto first, it still amazes me that it was written so long ago and most of if (except for maybe part 3(?) where they talk about all the political groups of the day) is still so relevant. I read it when I was just getting into activism during the anti-globalization movement and i was shocked to find that something, written 150 years before, described golbalization better than most of the new books about the subject.

- read "10 days that shook the world", it&#39;s about the Russian revolution. I thought it was hard to get through because of all the russian names and different political groups and factions, but there are some really wonderful scenes in the book that give you a great picture of what working-class political struggle and mass radicalization looks like and the pace of change that happen during a revolution.

- "Teamser Rebellion" is a good one about communists in the US labor movement and how their politics played into the union struggles of the 1930s.

[Erythromycin-diazepam]

thanks :D

[Technique3055]

Read the Manifesto. Then read it again. And maybe once more. If there&#39;s any basic piece of writing that you&#39;ll get the most out of, it will be this. Make sure you understand it to the fullest before moving to anything harder.

Also, read Engel&#39;s FAQ (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=26804). I read it shortly after I read the Manifesto for the first time and by the second time I read the Manifesto, it seemed so much clearer. The FAQ is extremely simple and straightforward, and it covers the most simple questions that you may not understand. For example, I wasn&#39;t really positive about the private property thing or socialism&#39;s real goal. This cleared both right up.

From there, you&#39;ve pretty much got a basic understanding of simple communism, so you can go one of two ways. You can either try to get an understanding of why capitalism sucks, or maybe you can look into anarchy and the higher stages of communism. I would suggest starting with a basic understanding of capitalism before you move on to anarchy. But either way, try "The State and Revolution" by Lenin. It&#39;s an extremely easy read (compared to Marx and Engels) and it will reinforce your ideas on communism. After I read it, I just had such a better understanding of why it would work, even though people always say it would fail (If you don&#39;t read the whole book, at least read chapter 5-4 "The Higher Stages of Communism." I took so much out of that little bit.)

Once you&#39;re feeling pretty strong in your theory, maybe you can try Capital (but seriously, make sure you&#39;re understanding what you&#39;re reading), or you can look at various instinces of "communism" in history. Looking at history has come in handy for me when I&#39;m in debates about it, and it gives you a newfound understanding for how powerful true communism could actually be.

[Connolly]

In this sentence "real Marxism" is technology fetishism, if you don&#39;t want to be ridiculed by other Marxists don&#39;t go down this road.

Pure Idiot. Claims to be a Marxist, yet excludes the means of production as the basis for social change :huh: . Does anyone get this guy?????............ The only people who would ridicule the MoP in the Marxist theory is a nonMarxist or Idiot no nothing "Marxist" like M-L.


Correction; "My fetish".

Correction, Highly important. except of course to those who dont understand it.


I don&#39;t give a shit about "personality cults", therefore your "theory" is worthless.

Its not a theory, but just an observation. Who has their website littered with pictures of Lenin and Stalin?........... Still deny a personality cult?.............Whats your stalker like fasination with lenins face?..............Sure, you can like his writings. But do you really have to plaster your website in his face?


His lengthy posts are filled with Marxist rhetoric, but are in reality filled with anti-Marxist crap, lengthy crap is still crap.


"Marxist rhetoric" :huh:

"Anti-Marxist crap" :huh:

What the hell so anti-Marxist about a materialist view of the MoP?

Something which you know shit all about. QUITE CLEARLY.

Your views are non-Marxist. In that they dont conform with materialism. You seem to want to skip a few hundred years of human development to satisfy your crazy lenninist-guevara revolutionary childish fantasy. :lol:

How can you claim to understand marxism if you cant understand materialist progression?



RB

[Led Zeppelin]

Its not a theory, but just an observation. Who has their website littered with pictures of Lenin and Stalin?........... Still deny a personality cult?.............Whats your stalker like fasination with lenins face?..............Sure, you can like his writings. But do you really have to plaster your website in his face?


The URL for my website is Marxist-Leninist, is it strange that there are pictures of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin there? No.

The Marxist internet archive also has pictures of Marx, Engels and Lenin, does that mean they are cultists?

Here we have pictures of Che when we post, does that mean RL is cultists?

[Connolly]

The URL for my website is Marxist-Leninist, is it strange that there are pictures of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin there? No.

Its not strange in that many people have been caught up in this "photo cult", a bit like yourself. Although Marxism could do without this hailing of mass failings, im not sure if you could, as I feel your understanding of Marxism is a little dim, as a substitute you require "A GOOD STRONG LEADER TO ADMIRE". :lol: :lol: ............................Until that is, you mature. By this time you will have understood Marxism or turned against it. Its usually one or the other.


The Marxist internet archive also has pictures of Marx, Engels and Lenin, does that mean they are cultists?

Well infact it does. Do they need them?..........Why do you think the Christian religion needs symbology and statues of christ, even though it is against the beliefs of the Christian religion itself?..........................Pretty much the same reason why "Marxism" needs red stars, sickles and Heroic pictures of Lenin. If you cant figure it out then ill tell you. Common sense really. They are needed to draw and maintain members of a cult. Especially for premature forced revolutions where such images and symbology is needed in order to achieve belief, hope heroism in battle etc. etc.


Here we have pictures of Che when we post, does that mean RL is cultists?

The website uses images of sickles, roses, anarchist As, Che Images things like this - :cuba: this :che: and this :hammer:. WHY?............... To attract those most vulnerable to such images. This can be a good thig and a nominal thing in the case of revolutionaryleft.

RB