Veganism/Vegitarianism

[JC1]

Dont you think that its sad that the bourgoise's ideaoloy is strong that it has caused reveloutionary's to fret over the well being of non-human life form's while there is crack in the street and war in the middle east ?

Why is the well being of lower form's of life (Aside from a general enviromental perspective) of any concern to Communist's and fellow reveloutionary's at this point in time ?

Just asking.

[poster_child]

Someone can care about both animals and humans.

I see an injustice, I try and do something about it, whether it may be about capitalism, or about the treatment of animals. These things aren't mutally exclusive.

[ack]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 02:37 AM
Why is the well being of lower form's of life (Aside from a general enviromental perspective) of any concern to Communist's and fellow reveloutionary's at this point in time ?
Well, if humanity doesn't start to do something about the mess we have made on this planet, then it will seriously mess up the natural order of things, and then we're all screwed.

[rioters bloc]

as poster child said, you can do both.

me not eating meat is not hard. it does not take effort to do. it does not require massive amounts of funds. vegetarianism is something i do alongside class struggle, not as a replacement of. i don't see how you can see them as mutually exclusive.

listen to propagandhi's "Apparently i'm a PC fascist [cos i care about human AND non-human animals]"

it probably won't enlighten you, but its a good song!!

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Vegetarianism does precisely jack shit about terrible slaughterhouse conditions. It merely appeases your own conscience.

did I ever tell you how many animals are mangled in harvesting machines?

Whoops! You're a hypocrite!

[romanm]

I don't see anything wrong with having a vegan diet - if done right, it is very healthy. It is certainly more healthy than the average Amerikkkan diet. However, to value animal life over humyn life is petty bourgeois and wrong.

[FleasTheLemur]

Pfft. It's okay to care about some of the more intellectual animals, but most of them are on the dumb side. Have you ever seen a cat hiss and claw at himself in the mirror? I don't think Miss Cat is angry with herself. She's obviously dumb as a box of rocks.

There was a study that has been conducted on and off by the various unversities to determine if annilans was self aware. So far, only primates, dolphins and (ironically) pidgeons have passed this test. You're not going to see me eat pidegon stew anytime soon.

Of course, what have to ask ourselves, "What's the only animal that can talk of concepts such as self awareness and socialism?" The answer, my fellow comrades, is humans.

[codyvo]

To me, pointing out how vegetarianism is a waste of time, is a waste of time. I personally have too much spare time on my hands so I am a vegetarian and I fight capitalism. I am more healthy since and I haven't wasted any time (except by telling you this).

[Vallegrande]

I saw how some people still live in Africa. They own a bunch of cattle, but they never kill them. They just puncture the cows jugulur vein to drain some blood in a bowl, and drink it. They also drink the milk. This is what they basically live off of is blood and milk. And they never kill the cows because they say it is too much trouble.

Interesting how this is a way for them to not ruin the environment, and actually improving it over time!

[novemba]

id suggest "beef and broccoli" by immortal technique


Originally posted by Big Pooh of Little Brother

fuck that tofu shit, i need a porkchop on my plate, like that nigga

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

I love hamburgers. I'm sorry cows, but I do.

[pedro san pedro]

Dont you think that its sad that the bourgoise's ideaoloy is strong that it has caused reveloutionary's to fret over the well being of non-human life form's while there is crack in the street and war in the middle east ?

hell yeah! those vege bastards are almost as bad as those fucks that spend all their time surfing the net and posting on BB's while theres crack on the streets and war in the middle east. them and the cows will be first against the wall when the revolution comes!!


did I ever tell you how many animals are mangled in harvesting machines?

Whoops! You're a hypocrite!

i'm sure that a lot more animals are mangled inside slaughter houses. the 'sancitity of life' argument doesnt hold much water with me, and is not the reason that i am vege, but i'm sure that those who do follow this line of thought would argue that as less harm is done in the fields, vegetarinism is the better option.

thats quite a long sentence - i hope it's understandable

[poster_child]

Vegetarianism does precisely jack shit about terrible slaughterhouse conditions. It merely appeases your own conscience.

Actually it does. Mass boycotting works. Also, lobby groups have been successful in slowly changing slaughterhouse conditions.

Do you have a better suggestion?



did I ever tell you how many animals are mangled in harvesting machines?

Whoops! You're a hypocrite!

So because this happens, that means it's okay to eat meat? Maybe we should look into ways of changing that instead. Not eating meat minimizes the harm we do to animals, even if some are killed during harvesting. We have to eat something.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Actually it does. Mass boycotting works. Also, lobby groups have been successful in slowly changing slaughterhouse conditions.

Do you have a better suggestion?


I've got no problem with those campaigning to improve slaughterhouse conditions - as they stand they are terrible.

But boycotting != Veganism. Refusing to eat animals raised in terrible conditions does not means you refuse to eat animals at all. There are such things as free range meat, eggs and dairy products. In fact the popularity of such products has risen recently.

It's those pompous gits that loudly proclaim their moral superiority because they refuse to eat meat full stop.


So because this happens, that means it's okay to eat meat? Maybe we should look into ways of changing that instead. Not eating meat minimizes the harm we do to animals, even if some are killed during harvesting. We have to eat something.

Fine, but don't try to claim that you're somehow morally superior to those who eat meat. Because you're not.

[JC1]

My question; and youre intteled to youre opinion; why the fuck do you care about sluather house condition's ?

[poster_child]

There are such things as free range meat, eggs and dairy products

Free range meat is a joke. Sure, they may have some access to the outdoors, but they only need to have access. There are actually no regulations how much time they must spend outside, or even if they have to at all.
"Free range" allows factory farmers to burn hens' beaks with a hot blade, cram six or seven hens into a tiny cage where they cannot spread even one wing, house them in filthy sheds with more than 100,000 other hens, and use food withholding to induce physiological shock so that the birds will lay more eggs.

Besides, animals are given hormones to grow so large that walking is painful or impossible. Being "free range" doesnt do them much good anyways.


Fine, but don't try to claim that you're somehow morally superior to those who eat meat. Because you're not.

I didn't once say I was morally superior; you actually did by calling us hypocrites.

[Dark Exodus]

Not eating meat minimizes the harm we do to animals, even if some are killed during harvesting. We have to eat something.

No, growing your own food minimizes the harm done to animals. (Thats assuming you don't let the anger of losing half your vegetables to those bunny-eared-little-bastards get to you and go on an air rifle killing spree.)

[rioters bloc]

this thread is beginning to sound a lot like another one in this same subforum... also titled 'veganism'...

so a lot of people here are against vegetarianism/veganism. alright, whatever. i'm not about to oppose my dietary choice on anyone else. [novemba - if i remember correctly, that immortal tech song says something along the lines of 'vegetarianism is not revolutionary, its just a dietary choice - haha ;) ]

first post:


Dont you think that its sad that the bourgoise's ideaoloy is strong that it has caused reveloutionary's to fret over the well being of non-human life form's while there is crack in the street and war in the middle east ?

Why is the well being of lower form's of life (Aside from a general enviromental perspective) of any concern to Communist's and fellow reveloutionary's at this point in time ?

the question here is not whether vegetarianism is revolutionary BUT why revolutionaries, or lefties, are concerned with the lives of non-humans when there are so many humans out there who are starving, enslaved, being tortured, etc.

so i will reiterate my point: i do not consider myself a leftie because i am a vegetarian. i am a leftie; and i am vegetarian. the two do not need to go hand in hand. however, i do strongly resent the idea of caring about non-human creatures as being 'bourgeoise'.

also, you said 'apart from a general environmental perspective'. that enviro perspective was what caused me to become vegetarian in the first place. now a lot of people are going to say 'youre not helping the environment at all' etc etc but i believe i am in my own small way. in the same way that when i go to an action, even if only 6 other people come too, and somehow disrupt big business even for a hour, i feel like i am doing something worthwhile. i cant be fucked bringing out stats or whatever on the enviro argument cos its been done to death and people who don't want to listen wont listen anyway. not a jab at anyone; thats just how it is.

again, vegetarianism isn't for everyone. nor is it [in my opinion] 'radical'. people do it for all sorts of reasons. but saying that it's useless or whatever is just stupid. you think that vegetarians are trying to impose their meat-free lifestyles on you and condemn them for it; while simultaneously you ridicule them and say thats its pointless, its idiotic, its 'bourgeoise' - thus trying to enforce YOUR lifestyle, and being authoritarian YOURSELF.

[Vallegrande]

What I dont get is how people say that vegetarianism is overall the best, yet this is not totally true. We can all argue back and forth, but we aren't getting anywhere. People will choose their own way.

I choose not to support meat products via factory farm. Now this isn't the same as supporting a small scale farmer who takes good care of the animals. Plus I dont eat as much meat because I substitute other sources for it. Just saying that eating meat in general is damaging to the land is bogus, because some people are getting their meat the traditional way, not this factory farming, and I dont see their land being ruined.

[Red_Two]

Traditionally we hunted for our food, or gathered it, but hunting is good.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 02:37 AM
Dont you think that its sad that the bourgoise's ideaoloy is strong that it has caused reveloutionary's to fret over the well being of non-human life form's while there is crack in the street and war in the middle east ?

Why is the well being of lower form's of life (Aside from a general enviromental perspective) of any concern to Communist's and fellow reveloutionary's at this point in time ?

Just asking.
Yes because I can't possible stay away from meat and dairy and raise my voice about animal abuse, all while being active in other aspects of the injustices in the world. It just can't possible be..

[danielfolsom]

Lower lifeforms? Look regardless of the current crisis i agree with the buhddist point of view. All life contains suffering and rather than adding to the suffering of animals it should be made that there is reduced suffering. Communism has a lot to do with treating people fairly, equal pay equal oppurtunities. My history teacher last year said "with cows, communism is like taking all the cows in the state and sharing the milk equally." I think that it is important that we respect that we are not the only lifeforms on the planet and the selfish state of mind that you seem to posses saying that we are "higher up than the other animals" is in fact wrong. Because we are at the top of the food chain we are the less important, our extinction will not effect the other life forms, they do not depend on us but rather we depend on them.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

a. This thread has already come up more times than I can count. I've responded in all of them and recieved, unfortunately, mostly liited response.

b. From an entirely scientific perspective, not particularly caring about animals either way, raising and killing animals for food is among the most stupidly inefficient and unnecessary activities of modern society. No, I'm not going to elaborate on it again.

[BANANARAMA]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 02:50 AM
Dont you think that its sad that the bourgoise's ideaoloy is strong that it has caused reveloutionary's to fret over the well being of non-human life form's while there is crack in the street and war in the middle east ?

Why is the well being of lower form's of life (Aside from a general enviromental perspective) of any concern to Communist's and fellow reveloutionary's at this point in time ?

Just asking.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS THIS FORUM SCIENCES AND ENVIRONMENT, DO YOU THINK IT SAYS GUNS AND FLANK TERRAIN?

I THINK THAT YOU ARE ASKING A STUPID QUESTION!

PEOPLE ARE NOT ON AN ENDANGERED LIST THE LAST TIME I CHECKED, BUT I WILL SURE AS HELL GUESS THAT WE ARE THE REASON WHY ANIMALS GET ON THE LIST. A REVOLUTION IS MORE THAN JUST GUNS AND DILECTIC METHODOLOGY

[Commie Rat]

dammit bananramma stop fucking posting in all caps dammit

mmm the most delicous kind of murder

[bombeverything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 02:55 AM
Dont you think that its sad that the bourgoise's ideaoloy is strong that it has caused reveloutionary's to fret over the well being of non-human life form's while there is crack in the street and war in the middle east ?

Why is the well being of lower form's of life (Aside from a general enviromental perspective) of any concern to Communist's and fellow reveloutionary's at this point in time ?

Just asking.

Because most of us do not view animals as lower form's of life, but part of our natural environment. An environment that we should protect, not destroy.

[Xvall]

What's wrong with crack?

[bombeverything]

What's wrong with crack?

:lol:

I was meaning to ask that as well.

[Everyday Anarchy]

I'm not a Vegetarian BECAUSE I see eating animals as nature's way. Animals eat animals in the wild. It's a natural process. Until there's another creature above us in the food chain, I'm happy eating meat. Sure, I think the way they farm animals and slaughter them is cruel and could use reform. But I can't boycott food :X

[bombeverything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 04:27 AM
I'm not a Vegetarian BECAUSE I see eating animals as nature's way. Animals eat animals in the wild. It's a natural process. Until there's another creature above us in the food chain, I'm happy eating meat. Sure, I think the way they farm animals and slaughter them is cruel and could use reform. But I can't boycott food :X

As human beings we have the ability to use reason. There is nothing "natural" about slaughtering animals for profit. There is other food besides meat, and it isn't actually as hard as it sounds.

But each to their own ...

[Le Libérer]

Especially by the time the meat gets to you, its hardly meat! Its been so pumped up with steriods,antibiotics, pesticides from the grain, you lose the nurients. And if they process it in anyway, the additives are not meat based.

The only way you will get real meat, is to raise and slaughter it yourself. Food companies will do anything to make a profit, including using the cheapest of everything.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 29 2005, 10:25 PM
dammit bananramma stop fucking posting in all caps dammit

mmm the most delicous kind of murder

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/uploads/post-22-1130582171.jpg

that is an adorable picture.