My AP US history class

[CCCPneubauten]

We had to read something about how the first Pilgrims were "Communist" now, I am known through out the school for being one...so I of course was made fun of, becuase the article was on how the Pilgrims try at communism failed...

Again, the masses bleat "Communism cannot work" I am sick of hearing this...does anyone have a good come back to this statement?

Anything at all that I could fire back to my class is welcome...

I really need to defend my views. They kept saying how humans are lazy and under communism everyone gets the same.

And indeed this Pilgirms communism was by definition communism.

Thank you comrades.

[Clarksist]

Well remember about Dialectical Materialism?

Now I don't think that Dialectical Materialism is absolutely correct, but what I do know is that we need an industrial revolution before communism can work.

Also the Pilgrims weren't quite communistic, organized religion and draconion laws aren't very communistic.

[red_orchestra]

I don't understand the US ed system. When US students study history, they study their own...when they study International History, its the study of what the US has done for the rest of the world. I call that fuckin' narrow.

Learn outside the box. Its the only way to truely learn about the world.

[Amusing Scrotum]

I don't understand the US ed system. When US students study history, they study their own...when they study International History, its the study of what the US has done for the rest of the world. I call that fuckin' narrow.

Learn outside the box. Its the only way to truely learn about the world.

I agree with that. The History taught in mainstream schools does seem to be narrow and self absorbed.
Though I must admit over here in Britain, the History taught after you choose your options is pretty good. You learn about the History of Medicine, the Second World War, more importantly you learn how events after the first World War, the occupation of the Rhine, the depression etc. lead to Hitler becoming prominent and then finally taking power. It wasn't all one sided, Germany is evil crap. It actually looked at cause and effect. Add to that we also studied the Israeli - Palastinian conflict, from its roots to present day, and I think that the last two years of History in British schools is very good. Even if the first three years, is all absolute crap about the Monarchy and how great it was.

[Ownthink]

Holy SHIT!

My AP US history class just studied the Pilgrims, and my pro-America racist teacher mentioned they used Communes and they failed.

Wow, talk about weird :blink:

[CCCPneubauten]

I guess their main point is that when people are all getting the same...who is going to want to do work?

I guess this is a question I also have...

[Amusing Scrotum]

I guess their main point is that when people are all getting the same...who is going to want to do work?

I guess this is a question I also have...

Its quite simple really. If no one farms, no one eats. If no one makes clothes, no one wears any etc. People would have to work in order to stay alive, its just everyone would get the true value of their labour, without an owner taking a slice.
Its pretty similar to todays world, just without the exploitation of the worker by the rich.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Communes aren't neccesarily Communist.

The Pilgrims were Purintan-Christians who weren't class-consious, and this was Primitive Communism they tried to implement. More people with different religious veiws kept emmigrating to the Americas, and theres no way a Primitive system could encompass the whole growing population for a number of reasons:

1) The monarchy still had a strangle hold on the Americas, and the colonists were still pretty disorganized and defenseless.

2) Capitalism was emerging, if your a Marxist you realize communism can't be implemented on a non-class consious population thats going towards industrialization. Primitive Communism can only work in a rabidly advancing industrial society on a local basis.

3) This was Puritan Christianity, theres no way a theological sect can unify other people.

4) the Indigneonous Americans were primitive communists, but they managed to maintain their government because they were practicing it on a tribal basis.

[bezdomni]

They couldn't have been communists. It wasn't a widely accepted idea until Marx started writing in the mid to late 1800s. Utopian socialism existed since the mid 1700s (I think), but it was a weak social philosophy.

The idea of socialism and communism did not exist in the time of the pilgrims, therefore, the pilgrims could not have been communist.

Also, there was a very obvious class distinction in puritan society. The deterministic religious philosophy of the puritans divided them by the "elect" and the "nonregenerate". There is an obvious oppressing class and an obvious oppressed class.

To put it simply, THEOCRACY IS NOT COMMUNISM!

[which doctor]

Whoa, my US History Honors (my school is too small for a history AP class) just got done studying the pilgrims too, but we never talked about communism. And I don't think that all that religious stuff that had to do with the pilgrims had anything to do with communism.

[Red Powers]

Maybe in the first winter Pilgrims shared everything as a means of survival, but I certainly wouldn't call that communist. They also divided their society up into "saints" or members of the church and "strangers" non-members. This neatly corresponded to class differences because the main sign that you were a saint was that you were prosperous. The Pilgrims were mostly urban businessmen but they brought with them workers (the strangers). The Mayflower had 35 "saints" and 65 "strangers" aboard. When they drew up the Mayflower Compact it dealt with how the saints would govern themselves, the strangers would be governed.

What you have in the Plymouth colony is not communism but a kind of early capitalist society where religion still plays a large role in defining social status.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 11:26 PM
I don't understand the US ed system. When US students study history, they study their own...when they study International History, its the study of what the US has done for the rest of the world. I call that fuckin' narrow.

Learn outside the box. Its the only way to truely learn about the world.
Until the lions have their historians, tales of hunting will always glorify the hunter.

[CCCPneubauten]

I, being the only communist in my school, had to defend communism...I had some interesting questions fired at me (As when I proved them wrong that the Pilgrims were not communist, the inturn attack communism itself)

How do whe know that everyone is working to their full ability?
Another one being...
Some people NEED more than others, thus some would have more than others.

Any answers?

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

The pilgrims escaped persicution to get the freedom to persucute. You're telling me these guys are gonna be good working men?

[CCCPneubauten]

Well I think no the focus is on global communism...how would we know if everyone was working their ability. And how other people have larger needs than others (Ie fat people) so wouldn't some have more than others? Dosen't that kill the whole "no class" system?

[Livetrueordie]

The pilgrims might have lived in communes, but they were not communist... they were purtians ruled by god. so god was the authoritarian figure. look at the salem with trials, things weren't democratic, people were persecuted for their sins.

They kept saying how humans are lazy and under communism everyone gets the same.
just tell them this is wrong, which it is. Humans aren&#39;t lazy, they might say this is human nature but its just bullshit. the nature of humans is adaptability and creating "culture". maybe americans are generally lazy but <u>it is not natural</u>

Some people NEED more than others, thus some would have more than others. yes but people would not recieve any sort of "capital" or resources which would put them a class above the rest.(business)

[omegaflare]

You know, I happen to be a very active communist in my school in Dallas TX. My AP US History teacher brought up a good point when she hinted that it was a failed "commune" and I had just sparked a debate (It happens quite a lot)"

"This is a capitalist taught class, meaning it will have a capitalistic bias. If you don&#39;t like the capitalistic bias, then teach the class about what the Puritan societies would have been like under communism."

So I did :-D It was rather funny, I tend to piss off the Social Studies wing of the school, I pass around flyers (homemade, hand written, printed..Information wants to be free, and I will do my best to be the liberator) and they have such a hard time trying to spin things. Its rather funny.