Why the U$ in Guantanamo?

[Panamarisen]

Can anybody tell me about it? I mean, why Cuba doesn´t protest because of the presence of the U$ Army in their land? Does it has to do with some treaty? If not, it´s a flagrant thief of Cuban´s soverignty, isn´t it?

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Yeah I was wondering the same thing. Russia closed it's base there due to a lack of money.

[new democracy]

I think that the US pays 1,000 dollars for a year for that base. small amount, but Castro trying to save every penny for cuba.

[Conghaileach]

In 1902, after the US defeated Spain it made a deal with Cuba where it would "rent" Guantanamo Bay for something like $2000 per year. The only way this agreement could be nullified was if both governments agreed to it.

After 1959, the Cuban government has made a number of calls to have the US move out, but they refuse to. They still pay the Cubans for the area, but the government refuses to take their money.

So, in short, the Yanks will only leave when *they* want to.

[MEXCAN]

1903 !!here is a site on the topic http://www.nsgtmo.navy.mil/history.htm

[MEXCAN]

AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CUBA

Signed by the President of Cuba, February 16, 1903. Signed by the President of the United States, February 23, 1903.

UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE WASHINGTON: 1932

AGREEMENT
Between the United States of America and the Republic of Cuba for the lease (subject to terms to be agreed upon by the two Governments) to the United States of lands in Cuba for coaling and naval stations.

The United States of America and the Republic of Cuba, being desirous to execute fully the provisions of Article VII of the Appendix to the Constitution of the Republic of Cuba promulgated on the 20th of May, 19092, which provide:

"Article VII. To enable the United States to maintain the independence of Cuba, and to protect the people thereof, a well as for its own defense, the Cuban Government will sell or lease to the United States the lands necessary for coaling or naval stations., at certain specified points, to be agreed upon with the President of the United States."

Have reached an agreement to that end, as follows:

ARTICLE I

The Republic of Cuba hereby leases to the United States, for the time required for the purposes of coaling and naval stations, the following described areas of land and water situated in the Island of Cuba:

1st. In Guantanamo (see Hydrographic Office Chart 1857). From a point on the south coast, 4.37 nautical miles to the eastward of Windward Point Light House, a line running north (true) a distance of 4.25 nautical miles;

From the northern extremity of this line, a line running west (true), a distance of 5.87 nautical miles;

From the western extremity of this last line, a line running south-west (true), 3.31 nautical miles;

From the southwestern extremity of this last line, a line running south (true), to the seacoast.

This lease shall be subject to all the conditions named in Article II of this agreement.

2nd. In Northwestern Cuba (see Hydrographic Office Chart 2036). In Bahia Honda (see Hydrographic Office Chart 520b).

All that land included in the peninsula containing Cerro del Morillo and Punta del Carenero situated to the westward of a line running south (true) from the north coast at a distance of thirteen hundred yards east (true) from the crest of Cerro del Morrillo, and all the adjacent waters touching upon the coast line of the above described peninsula and including the estuary south of Punta del Carenero with the control of the headwaters as necessary for sanitary and other purposes.

And in addition all that piece of land and its adjacent waters on the western side of the entrance to Bahia Honda included between the shore line and a line running north and south (true) to low water marks through a point which is west (true) distant one nautical mile from Pta. Dey Cayan.

ARTICLE II

The grant of the foregoing Article shall include the right to use and occupy the waters adjacent to said areas of land and water, and to improve and deepen the entrances thereto and the anchorages therein, and generally to do any and all things necessary to fit the premises for use as coaling or naval stations only, and for no other purpose.

Vessels engaged in the Cuban trade shall have free passage through the waters included within this grant.

ARTICLE III

While on the one hand the United states recognizes the continuance of the ultimate sovereignty of the Republic of Cuba over the above described areas of land and water, on the other hand the Republic of Cuba consents that during the period of the occupation by the United states of said areas under the terms of this agreement the United states shall exercise complete jurisdiction and control over and within said areas with the right to acquire (under conditions to be hereafter agreed upon by the two Governments) for the public purposes of the United States any land or other property therein by purchase or by exercise of eminent domain with full compensation to the owners thereof.

Done in duplicate at Habana, and signed by the President of the Republic of Cuba, this the sixteenth day of February, 1903.

(SEAL) T. Estrada Palma
Signed by the President of the United States the twenty-third of February 1903.
(SEAL) Theodore Roosevelt

[Panamarisen]

Well, what a treaty!!!

Hope something could be done about it...

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Comrade Daniel]

I hope someone outside Cuba bombs the base with a plane (me :) sorry just exploded uot of evil against the US but I'm cooling down now) ;)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The way the US throws its enemies in Guantanamo Bay so they don't have to abide by American law is outrageously cowardly.

[TheEndOfMan]

I'm travelling to Cuba late next year or the year after... If i find sum spare time i'll fly a plane into the base..... I can't promise anything because i don't know how to fly a plane.... But i'll try! Anyway on a serious note i doubt America will ever move out of Cuba.... I wish countries like Cuba, NZ, France, Russia, China and hopefully even Australia could once and for all stand up against the U.S.... If trade was blocked from the U.S to the rest of the world they would fall so quickly.... But ofcourse this is impossible.... We need a world communist revolution! Unfortuately for Communism to work really well the whole world would have to be communist...... With no countries..... One world... One peace..... Dream on Ray, Dream on.....

[Comrade Daniel]

"If trade was blocked from the U.S to the rest of the world they would fall so quickly.... But ofcourse this is impossible"

Never say something is impossible, something can be difficult. But what about WWII when the Germans just entered war with the USA the sended a few U-boats to the east-cost of the USA and shot all trading ships one by one. Just because the USA din't expected a attack already afther a few days, you need suprise attacks.

[Pavan Sohal]

The original term of the agreement was a 99 year lease, the term of which should expire soon, if not already. It's really just a political statement by the United States, that it doesn't recognize the current government's authority. Having a base in a country that refuses to sell food to it is so vastly expensive it's incredible that they haven't been forced out by the American people themselves, especially when the USA practically owns Puerto Rico and has better facilities there.

[TheEndOfMan]

Yeah we can always hope... I wonder if there is anyone on this site who wants to start some actual action.... We need an international peace organisation.... Problem is we need funds..... And if your thinking this sounds a bit terrorist then good.. I would love to run a terrorist organisation..... Imagine being responsible for the fall of the U.S.... You would be a legend for eternity... Not that personal fame counts... But yeah....

[Comrade Daniel]

As long as you don't kill citezens TheEndOfMan

[TheEndOfMan]

Seen fight club? Now that is a very possible solution..... Blow up all the major credit card companys...... Would fuck with America's ecconomy...... For the better too.... Plus no one gets hurt... Sounds good to me! :)

[Pavan Sohal]

People get hurt when you mess up the economy. And never the people who you intend, just look at the sanctions on Iraq or even Pakistan. If we could get an organization together it should aim for only military targets, it's impossible to misconstrue through the media and the American people don't have to feel victimized. The best way to get someone on your side is to make them feel like the victims, if enough people can be made to understand that the government and institutions are out of control, something will happen. As long as the same institutions can just say, "they hate Americans [the foreigners]", nothing good will come of any action. Attacking targets like the WTC is just stupid, what's needed is a large scale campaign against American military interests by people who can't be alienated as Arabs, or Gooks or anything like that. It has to be performed by white Americans, Canadians, Europeans and SUPPORTED not fully backed by other races.

[Comrade Daniel]

Quote: from Pavan Sohal on 6:00 pm on Dec. 27, 2002
by people who can't be alienated as Arabs, or Gooks or anything like that. It has to be performed by white Americans, Canadians, Europeans and SUPPORTED not fully backed by other races.

Dude, I think arabs can join to!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pavan Sohal]

Arabs and others are already performing in these movements, the problem is that western governments begin to feel justified in attacking some foreign nation or people. Imagine an attack on the School of the Americas in Georgia...and a simultaneous message sent to western news agencies stating clearly that, "...the attack was conceived, funded, and performed entirely by non-immigrants, persons who are white in skin colour, and culturally homogeneous with the owners of the system, all are Canadian. Our intents were and remain a sincere movement to reverse U.S. foreign policy" What would the government be able to do? If a group of Arabs did it, they would say tighten immigration, or even round up religious Arabs...hurting people from third world countries and separating them from our cause. There is nothing to prevent this attack, it could happen at any time, even if all the people who could be separated from the "model American" were expelled from North America.

[Miguel]

As "MEXCAN" said, 1903 the treaty was signed, a shame that the Cuban administration (remember that Martí was among them) could see the future source of exploatation, but besides from Martí and a few more, most of the people who would take their seat of power gained on the american presence in Cuba...y en eso llego Fidel (...and then Fidel came), llego el commandante y mando parar

[Miguel]

"Never say something is impossible, something can be difficult. But what about WWII when the Germans just entered war with the USA the sended a few U-boats to the east-cost of the USA and shot all trading ships one by one. Just because the USA din't expected a attack already afther a few days, you need suprise attacks."

Who would perform this attack? Everybody blaims the US, but nobody comments the fact that all developed countries in Europe (like Germany) gain power and economic status with the capitalistic system...its not the USA against the underdeveloped world its the western world against the represed world. The solucion dont lie in a military strike...it has to come from inside.

[Pavan Sohal]

The solution will never come in the form that you're thinking. European nations put much more into aid than the United States, the refusal by America to take responsibility for the situation (they still point to european colonialism) is holding the world back from development. Yes the west is only so rich due to the lack of riches in other parts of the world, and african nations can never expect the same standards of living, but there are things that can be done, which aren't happening now. Sitting back and waiting or uselessly pushing for the "big revolution" is simply wasteful and not in the spirit of the realist nature of socialism.

[Miguel]

I dont beleve in the "good-moral" of Europe, i agree that the nations of Europe, (like France) contain wast groups of politically engaged people, media and parties, but still the ones who have the power are the same bastards as across the Atlantic Ocean, capitalism is not something that belongs to the US and the US only. To help nations you exploit by giving them aid is like taking 100 then give back 20. To belive that European corporations and states dont benefit on american expansion is wrong, we are of the same seed, and im not talking about the direct response you get when the US declares war on Iraq, where european nations protest, I agree the european states are not as corporation driven as the US, and people do protest. But it all comes down to that we are still rich...and I dont think we (by "we" I mean the majority of citizens in western soceity) would give that up. And if not enlightenment within these imperialistic nations, and a growing number of revolutionary minds within our borders, who would be able to change something?

[Conghaileach]

from Miguel:
As "MEXCAN" said, 1903 the treaty was signed, a shame that the Cuban administration (remember that Martí was among them)

Was José Marti not killed in 1895?

[Pavan Sohal]

Marti did not see Cuba free. He wasn't there for the lease.

[Miguel]

Yes Martí was killed before the formation of Cuba, I wrote in a missleading way. I meant that Martí and his followers didn´t see the future threat giving in for the Americans (USA) to combat Spain, not being able to se that the agreements they (Cuban administrations) had with the US would only mean a even greater colonial repression in the future Cuba.

[Borincano]

I'm not sure if Cuba wants another confrontation with the USA, since they are now historically considered, "mortal enemies." However, the Cuban gov't could just do what the Puerto Rico government did: protest, protest, protest. The USA has military bases all over Puerto Rico, but when they killed a civilian guard in 1999, (They've killed many with chemical weapons, causing cancer on local resident, evicted people and their dead from their homes and land in which their families have lived on for centuries.) the gov't decided to kick it out. Many political scandals, status politics, faulty agreements, threats, murders, and a referendum have taken place since then, and it all lead to a scheduled leaving date of the USA Navy off the island of Vieques on May 2003 after over 60 years of training. Let's see if they really leave, because as they tried in 2001, they might use the "war against terrorism" as an excuse to stay. If they do leave, no longer will the USA have a place to train for wars against nations in Latin America and the world in a historically military strategic paradise. They will just have to spend millions more and move somewhere else.

P.S.
In my opinion, I think José Martí was one of the greatest revolutionaries of Latin America; for his leftist tendencies, his anti-colonial stance and his dreams of freedom and democracy.

(Edited by Borincano at 6:03 pm on Jan. 1, 2003)

[Pavan Sohal]

Puerto Rico is a perfect example of how rich small countries can get by being nice to a superpower.